The new internal passport/national ID

[Korgoth]

Surely you've heard of this BS right... This new national ID card legislation thats on its way to senate right now. What a load of crap this is, each one will be fitted with the new lovely RFID technology for easy tracing, and every american citizen will have to have one.

They say they are doing it because the hijackers on 9/11 were using fake passports and identification, ok... But the hijackers weren't even US citizens, they were here on visa so what good is this going to do? Other than give government even more power than it deserves, and make it even more intrusive than it needs to be.

And before you bush loyals come in here preaching about how paranoid I am, need I remind the lot of you that this will also be required to buy firearms, therefore, they could easily erase anyones right to buy firearms if they "suspect" them to be involved in any shady activity, and they won't have to answer to anyone....

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0124/p11s02-ussc.html
(usually don't reference the csmonitor, but it was the quickest article i coudl fine )

Can't we all agree that this may be a step in the wrong direction?

 

[bliink]

They threw around the idea of a National ID here in Australia (The "Australia Card") but that was immediately pulverised by public opinion lol

 

[Korgoth]

They threw around the idea of a National ID here in Australia (The "Australia Card") but that was immediately pulverised by public opinion lol

Scary thing is, i think its gonna pass here

 

[Tr0n]

Hell no!

I'd rather go to hell first before I'm made to carry some ID tag like a dog.

 

[bliink]

Hell no!

I'd rather go to hell first before I'm made to carrying so ID tag like a dog.

[accent] Where are your papers!? [/accent]

 

[Tr0n]

[accent] Where are your papers!? [/accent]

I ain't going to carry an ID around that will make it easy for them to trace me.

It will be a cold day in hell before that happens.

 

[gh0st]

I'm not too worried. One positive I feel is that it makes it harder to be an illegal immigrant here. If bush would quit letting them in

 

[Foxtrot]

I ain't going to carry an ID around that will make it easy for them to trace me.

It will be a cold day in hell before that happens.

Why are you so afraid of someone government organization having the ability to track you? You must have somthing to hide.

 

[bliink]

Why are you so afraid of someone government organization having the ability to track you? You must have somthing to hide.

Or vice versa

 

[Tr0n]

Why are you so afraid of someone government organization having the ability to track you? You must have somthing to hide.

It's called privacy my friends...our founding fathers believed all citzens have a right to privacy.Which is what our current goverment is trying to go against.

I have nothing to hide other than illegal music and videos.

 

[bliink]

Dug up a few good links:
http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/Privacy.cfm?ID=13501&c=39
http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/nationalidsystem.html
http://www.cato.org/tech/tk/010928-tk.html

 

[Korgoth]

Why does someone instantly "have something to hide" if they want to live their live in private? I don't want people tracking my purchases, my activities, why should I be considered a suspect when i've done absolutely nothing?

(thanks for those links bliink)

 

[Foxtrot]

Why does someone instantly "have something to hide" if they want to live their live in private? I don't want people tracking my purchases, my activities, why should I be considered a suspect when i've done absolutely nothing?

Define private for me....I don't understand why you are worried at all. This won't really have any negative affect on your life at all.

 

[burnzie]

I agree with tron.

 

[Tr0n]

Why does someone instantly "have something to hide" if they want to live their live in private? I don't want people tracking my purchases, my activities, why should I be considered a suspect when i've done absolutely nothing?

Exactly.

Who knows...that civil war I have been waiting for could happen after all.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Down with national ID cards. It's one of the early steps of federal oppression, gun control, other rights going away, etc. This is one of the things I split with my fellow Republicans on (I'm sure a hell of a lot are with me, though)

I'm not too worried. One positive I feel is that it makes it harder to be an illegal immigrant here. If bush would quit letting them in

That problem needs to be taken care of ASAP but this is not the way to combat it. More border forces, a HUGE hike from what we have now is needed. If not full border militarization (Which would also severely cut the drug trade, by a hell of a lot, besides illegal immigration)

Email and write your congressmen about this one, I am.

 

[Korgoth]

Down with national ID cards. It's one of the early steps of federal oppression, gun control, other rights going away, etc. This is one of the things I split with my fellow Republicans on (I'm sure a hell of a lot are with me, though)


That problem needs to be taken care of ASAP but this is not the way to combat it. More border forces, a HUGE hike from what we have now is needed. If not full border militarization (Which would also severely cut the drug trade, by a hell of a lot, besides illegal immigration)

I applaud you rakurai, i'm glad to see that you guys can understand how this transends any party affiliation, and affects all of us. I could care less if this was the bush admin or the kerry admin ushering this through the proper channels for approval, i'd be against it in any way.

And I agree this definately stinks of gun control, and basically public control when you get down to the knitty gritty.

 

[bliink]

I think that if a national ID system were created, you'd have huge numbers of people refusing to carry them.
If it takes an extra 10 minutes to sort something out due to a missing ID card, and 10 million people arent using them, then thats one hell of a congested system

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I think that if a national ID system were created, you'd have huge numbers of people refusing to carry them.
If it takes an extra 10 minutes to sort something out due to a missing ID card, and 10 million people arent using them, then thats one hell of a congested system

Imagine if on tax day, nobody filed their income taxes...

Whoa.

 

[bliink]

Imagine if on tax day, nobody filed their income taxes...

Whoa.

lol...
Imagine some tax guy sitting in a silent office waiting..
"You know, Larry... somethings wrong..."

 

[RZAL]

At least they’re not considering the Verichip, or are they.

A microchip that can be implanted under the skin to give doctors instant access to a patient's records yesterday won government approval, a step that could transform medical care but is raising alarm among privacy advocates.
The tiny electronic capsule, the first such device to receive Food and Drug Administration approval, transmits a unique code to a scanner that allows doctors to confirm a patient's identity and obtain detailed medical information from an accompanying database. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29954-2004Oct13.html
For more information see http://www.4verichip.com/

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

At least they’re not considering the Verichip, or are they.

A microchip that can be implanted under the skin to give doctors instant access to a patient's records yesterday won government approval, a step that could transform medical care but is raising alarm among privacy advocates.
The tiny electronic capsule, the first such device to receive Food and Drug Administration approval, transmits a unique code to a scanner that allows doctors to confirm a patient's identity and obtain detailed medical information from an accompanying database. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29954-2004Oct13.html
For more information see http://www.4verichip.com/

If they made that medical chip something you could buy optional that'd be pretty neat. I'd buy one (if all it could do was that medical stuff) and others who didn't like the idea could just not buy it if they didn't feel like it.

 

[Korgoth]

At least they’re not considering the Verichip, or are they.

A microchip that can be implanted under the skin to give doctors instant access to a patient's records yesterday won government approval, a step that could transform medical care but is raising alarm among privacy advocates.
The tiny electronic capsule, the first such device to receive Food and Drug Administration approval, transmits a unique code to a scanner that allows doctors to confirm a patient's identity and obtain detailed medical information from an accompanying database. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29954-2004Oct13.html
For more information see http://www.4verichip.com/

This seems like a natural progression of where this ID card could go... Thats what is so scary to me, about this.

 

[Tr0n]

This seems like a natural progression of where this ID card could go... Thats what is so scary to me, about this.

Well if it does happen we already know where it's headed.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I dont see what the problem is with having a nationalized ID. Its not like they are tracking your every movement via satellite. The idea doesnt sound much different from a refined passport.

Stories about electronic chips, and biometrics, and centralized databases are swirling on the web. But Jason King, spokesman for the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA), says they are a lot of red herrings. "There is no call for biometrics in this legislation; there is no call for smart chips; there is no call for a central database."

 

[Tr0n]

I dont see what the problem is with having a nationalized ID. Its not like they are tracking your every movement via satellite. The idea doesnt sound much different from a refined passport.

No...but it could and possibly will lead to it.

 

[Korgoth]

I dont see what the problem is with having a nationalized ID. Its not like they are tracking your every movement via satellite. The idea doesnt sound much different from a refined passport.

But why should an American citizen have to have a "passport" in his/her own country? To go about their daily life?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I dont see what the problem is with having a nationalized ID. Its not like they are tracking your every movement via satellite. The idea doesnt sound much different from a refined passport.

Tramples on state's rights for one thing.

You know it's just not a good idea overall. It'll cost a lot too. Just.. no..

 

[gh0st]

But why should an American citizen have to have a "passport" in his/her own country? To go about their daily life?

The same reason you have a drivers license. It isnt JUST so you can drive you know. This makes the process much more streamlined, and more importantly standardized. ie you cant have multiple drivers licenses in multiple states, having multiple identities, which is a tactic employed by terrorists -> the 911 hijackers did this same thing.

 

[bliink]

No...but it could and possibly will lead to it.

Exactly, look what happened with SSN's in the US, check the 2nd link I posted above

 

[seinfeldrules]

The same reason you have a drivers license. It isnt JUST so you can drive you know. This makes the process much more streamlined, and more importantly standardized. ie you cant have multiple drivers licenses in multiple states, having multiple identities, which is a tactic employed by terrorists.

Ding ding ding.

 

[Tr0n]

But why should an American citizen have to have a "passport" in his/her own country? To go about their daily life?

So they don't go out and buy pr0n!

 

[RZAL]

If they made that medical chip something you could buy optional that'd be pretty neat. I'd buy one (if all it could do was that medical stuff) and others who didn't like the idea could just not buy it if they didn't feel like it.

You can buy it.

The VeriChip technology was developed to track livestock and has been implanted in about 1 million cats and dogs to identify lost or stolen house pets. But the technology has a variety of other potential uses, and the company has already sold about 7,000 chips for human use, about 1,000 of which have been implanted.
Mexico's attorney general announced in July that he had one of the devices injected into his arm, as had about 160 of his lieutenants, to control access to high-security offices. In bars in Amsterdam and Barcelona, patrons can have the chips implanted to allow them to enter exclusive areas and keep track of their tabs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29954-2004Oct13.html

 

[Tr0n]

Ding ding ding.

Well I still say **** it.

I ain't gonna carry some ID thing that could and can make it easy for them to track me and invade on my privacy rather it be now or in the future.

It's that simple.

 

[Death.Trap]

Well I still say **** it.

I ain't gonna carry some ID thing that could and can make it easy for them to track me and invade on my privacy rather it be now or in the future.

It's that simple.

Do you carry a drivers license?

 

[Tr0n]

Do you carry a drivers license?

Nope.

Know why?Don't have one.

HA!

Again I WILL NOT CARRY SOME RFID TAG (for those who don't know what RFID is go read up on it).

 

[seinfeldrules]

Do you carry a drivers license?

You stole the question right outa my mouth .


Ah, I thought of another though! Do you carry around a library card?

And tr0n how old are you?

 

[RZAL]

Well I still say **** it.

I ain't gonna carry some ID thing that could and can make it easy for them to track me and invade on my privacy rather it be now or in the future.

It's that simple.

I don't care for it either. I'm willing to bet if they impose the Verichip on Americans it would stir up a lot of trouble.

 

[gh0st]

Nope.

Know why?Don't have one.

HA!

Again I WILL NOT CARRY SOME RFID TAG (for those who don't know what RFID is go read up on it).

Do you use a credit card? Checks? If so, all your purchases are recorded into a central database, easily accesible with a warrant.

 

[Tr0n]

For you dumbasses here I will make it simple...

Radio frequency identification (RFID) is a method of remotely storing and retrieving data using devices called RFID tags. An RFID tag is a small object, such as an adhesive sticker, that can be attached to or incorporated into a product. RFID tags contain antennas to enable them to receive and respond to radio-frequency queries from an RFID transceiver.

The purpose of an RFID system is to enable data to be transmitted by a portable device, called a tag, which is read by an RFID reader and processed according to the needs of a particular application. The data transmitted by the tag may provide identification or location information, or specifics about the product tagged, such as price, color, date of purchase, etc. The use of RFID in tracking and access applications first appeared during the 1980s. RFID quickly gained attention because of its ability to track moving objects...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID