The Next Class Pack = The Heavy

[V-Man339]

The Heavy could definitley use the help as far as becoming more useful medicless, but I'm not sure what you could give him as a weapon to do that while not making him overpowered.

As for the pyro, it's now more usable in the hands of a noob, while more versatile in the hands of a pro, and is usually good only in the right conditions and situations such as ambusing.

 

[Stigmata]

Bitching about the Pyro being overpowered = "pyro got bufed n changed now i has 2 lern a diffrent statagies

"

 

[Jintor]

When are you going to marry me?

Draw moar. D<

 

[NeoNight]

I just want some kind of sound suppressor for the minigun's alt fire.

 

[Crispy]

Then I guess I win. If I was that wrong, you just shouldn't have posted. Since you posted this, you have admitted that I out-reasoned you.

Sorry, I was talking to Jintor, who's claiming that the Backburner was never broken and when Valve altered it to make it function as originally intended, this was a 'tweak' and not a 'Fix'. If something does not function as intended, it is obviously broken. You don't call the AA out to 'tweak' your car and make it work properly. You call them out to fix your car so it is roadworthy (as designed).

As for your comments:

4. So what you are saying is that a Pyro with the backburner is better off fighting an aware Soldier while chasing him and wielding the flaregun than he is just running away and not dying? Rule #1 for Pyros: if he sees you and you are not in range, use shotty of flaregun and run away. VS heavy, it only helps in an ambush (in which case, you aught to win). VS Demo, if he is not camping with stickies, sure, it helps you close the gaps while you shoot at him, but I play Demo a lot, and I know that he has a fair chance of hitting the Pyro numerous times with nades before you catch up.

Yes, I'm saying that a Backburner Pyro should chase down a Soldier with the Flare gun...

No, of course I'm not saying that! I'm saying that when the two battle in close-combat, the Backburner will probably win (especially if indoors; consider how many chokepoints and capture points in maps are indoors). If the two see eachother at long range, the Soldier has almost zero chance of hindering the Pyro, whereas the Pyro can lead a Flare gun shot and at least have a good chance of hitting him and forcing him to seek health (or weakening him until the Pyro can close to Shotgun range where he'll stand a better chance). In midrange, the Soldier has the upper hand because he can hit the Pyro reliably with splash damage and switch to Shotgun to continue inflicting damage without a reload time penalty.

5. So, in this scenario, you are merely trying to distract the Sniper while getting by? Well, first off, there are lots of other, safer, paths to get you by a Sniper. Second, the Shotgun is just as good for firing at a Sniper to help you get by him.

Most good Snipers stand at the back. It's not a question of getting past, it's a question of getting to the Sniper. If a Sniper is covering the yard in Well and you spot him for the first time, you now have a Flare gun to force the Sniper into cover. Same with 2Fort. Even better is that the Flare has an arc, so if you are below the Sniper you can actually, in some cases, fire from a position the Sniper cannot cover. ... But the main point here is that the Shotgun at range does not force a Sniper to break scope and move. At range a Sniper can absorb non-crit hits long enough to headshot you. If you are using a Flare gun, he either has to stand his ground for the headshot as he sees your Flare coming, or he has to break scope, dodge and let you get closer. This means that one way the Sniper is not making any kills and the other way the Sniper is on fire and has to retreat. Either way it's beneficial for your team.

6. In the scenario you specified, the Pyro is perfect at reflecting and the Soldier is not prefect at firing. That is not fair.

I meant that the Pyro has a good chance to deflect (not necessarily reflect) shots.

7. Again, if the team is working together to kill the Sentry, it will go down. The influence of the Pyro is negligible, unless he is really good and goes in to circle strafe it while flaming (a tactic which was viable pre-update).

The influence of a projectile 100% hitting a sentry and taking HP off versus a Shotgun spread (what the Pyro had before) perhaps hitting the sentry is not negligible. Also if the Engy is getting hit by splash damage from rockets or stickies or grenades, a direct hit from a Flare could be all that's needed.

P.S. I played as the Pyro today and didn't fall below 2:1 deaths. Since the Soldier nerf and the Pyro buffs, getting a K ratio like this with the Soldier has been less predictable.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Can't wait.

 

[Jintor]

hi i'm here for the extensive debate about semantics

I'd like to start out by saying that in Jintor's initial post, he was using "broken" to mean "overpowered" or "unbalanced," and in regard to the Pyro, not the Backburner. He was saying that people who claim the Pyro is now overpowered are morons.

In the example you pointed out, the Backburner was broken more literally, in that it didn't do what it was supposed to do. If your example was of Valve nerfing the Pyro post-update because they thought they made her too powerful, then it'd be a good counter.

Correct.

 

[Crispy]

hi i'm here for the extensive debate about semantics

There is no debate. Jintor needs to be more specific when labelling people morons. Broken means broken, overpowered means overpowered. Neither one means the other unless explicitly described as such.

My car is broken does not mean it is overpowered. Similarly in game development if something is broken it means its fundamentals are not functioning as intended. If something is overpowered it means the fundamentals are working properly, but the variables need some amending. It's a difference between deleting and writing new code, and changing values in some code/script.

Also: re: your K : D ratio.
It's not fair comparing the Pyro's K : D to the Soldier's K : D, because they're two completely different gameplay styles. It's like saying the Sniper is overpowered because you can get 5 : 1 without even trying.

Not really, they are both offensive classes. They are both relied on by the rest of the team to be at the front line, inflicting lots of damage, making lots of kills and absorbing a fair bit of damage. I don't see why a direct comparison between their offensive effectivenesses given this similarity is unfair.

 

[Jintor]

There is no debate. Jintor needs to be more specific when labelling people morons. Broken means broken, overpowered means overpowered. Neither one means the other unless explicitly described as such.

My car is broken does not mean it is overpowered. Similarly in game development if something is broken it means its fundamentals are not functioning as intended. If something is overpowered it means the fundamentals are working properly, but the variables need some amending. It's a difference between deleting and writing new code, and changing values in some code/script.

I apologise for note saying specifically the meaning of 'broken' in game terms and 'overpowered' in game terms... despite the fact that both are god-damn near interchangable. I'm sorry your brain couldn't handle the POWER.

/EDIT I really do apologise, but I think it was pretty easy to see that I was using broken to mean overpowered. That's what most people (that I encounter) mean when they say that a class is 'broken'.

 

[Jintor]

people on the internet use different words to mean different things in different contexts omgggg ;_;

That image is awesome.

 

[V-Man339]

That image is awesome.

I concur.

 

[Mahalis]

Finally, what about a new class ability, a la the compression blast of the pyro? My brother and I were thinking that they could implement a sprint feature (for the heavy exclusively, of course) that would burn out very quickly, and be useful to run away from a really sticky situation, such as running in with a medic, only to have your medic get destroyed right away, with you now having to deal with multiple enemies. One of my main motivations for even suggesting this is due to my powerful want to see a Heavy running with his arms flailing in a very clumsy manner, with him preferably screaming like the ogre that he is. It would be hilarious and effective in the right situations. My brother also thought it would be hilarious if that, during his sprint (with his arms flailing), any enemies that you might run into would take melee damage, so as to encourage death-bound heavies to charge at their enemies wildly.

The sprint would of course have to be extremely limited with a slow recharge rate (though rechargeable via Resupply Cabinets, dispensers, etc.), but it would have to last long enough to get the Heavy from either spawn point on 2fort to their own side of the bridge. I think that's pretty reasonable.

That sounds interesting - a "charge" of sorts. I don't think supply cabinets/dispensers should refill it, though - the Spy doesn't get that with his cloak.

 

[Que-Ever]

What if the pyro is covered in horrible burns, and that is why she never reveals herself to her comrades.

 

[Stigmata]

I was going to go with "Que, you're a monster" but that works too.

 

[Que-Ever]

That's like a hunchback of notre dame kind of notion. Is he the monster... or are we the monsters?

 

[Acepilotf14]

I'm pretty sure he's the monster.

 

[Que-Ever]

but the king of fools scene!

 

[Acepilotf14]

I still think the pyro is a guy.

 

[Acepilotf14]

no u r rong

4999 D:

 

[Acepilotf14]

no wai, grlfrend!
shiznazzle my dizzle, fo shizzle
wut u talkn bout willis?

 

[Jintor]

Infractions for all!

 

[Letters]

The pyro is 100% a man. I mean really... just go take some fall damage while playing as HIM.

 

[Acepilotf14]

Or maybe TF2 knows you are a girl and hates you for it.

 

[V-Man339]

Actually, I hear the same fall damage voice files for all the classes.

 

[Loke]

Actually, I hear the same fall damage voice files for all the classes.

This.

 

[-Psy-]

The Pyro isn't a female. He doesn't sound even remotely like a women.

 

[Absinthe]

She has a whiskey voice.

 

[Absinthe]

Sexy.

I'd hit it even with the suit.

 

[taviow]

I'd only hit it with the suit.

 

[Sheepo]

I'd hit the axetinguisher

 

[lefty]

Wow, this update should be really good, the heavy is one of my favorite classes.

 

[saratos]

Wow, this update should be really good, spy is one of my favorite classes.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Wow, this update should be really good, spy is one of my favorite classes.

This.