The original final battle

[esplin]

Hello all long time no see. i finally got a hold of Episode 2 and it was blast. I especially enjoyed the final battle with the striders. It was the first time Half Life didn't end with a final boss and it was pretty awesome.

Then I remembered this trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwkQekJMaxw

As much as I enjoyed the final battle this looks about 10x cooler. It kind of reminds me of when Valve decreased the difficulty of the elevator battle in Episode One by putting in less zombies.

Valve tries so hard to give the player the "perception of difficulty", yet they refuse to make the Half Life series even remotely difficult. Personally I'd love to see a patch that included a "super hard mode" that returned the final battle to its former glory.

 

[Naurgul]

This has been discussed before. They would need to have included another baked instance of the maps for all the different enemies and whatnot. That's pretty much impossible, if you ask me. Now, if everyone had infinite storage capacity, infinite internet speed and content hosting didn't cost anything, they would do it.

On the bright side, you can still mod it the way you want it to.

 

[cyk]

It was a really ridiculously contrived ending, even for a Half-Life game. Apparently, since the first Strider didn't work, they decided to send... 12 more! Same with the Hunters! They couldn't at least send a Gunship or something? Hell, perfect opportunity for a Synth sighting or something.

 

[Asknoone]

We are talking about an Overwatch force that has been pretty much crippled in the wake of the Citadel collapse, you know.

 

[Jintor]

Gunship has no (official) gigantic laser to destroy facility.

I guess all the other enemies could be used to guard the striders, though...

 

[cyk]

We are talking about an Overwatch force that has been pretty much crippled in the wake of the Citadel collapse, you know.

They have 12 expendable Striders and countless Hunters apparently.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Yea, cyk has a good point. Wee see a shit load of guys and gunships on the bridge, and only the big guys come. Somehow, the gunships got lost along the way.

 

[Moonraker]

why wouldnt they send them when there was a rocket about to be launched that pretty much seals their doom?

i mean gordon and alyx together is enough to warrant shitting your pants if you are combine.

 

[Asknoone]

They have 12 expendable Striders and countless Hunters apparently.

Whereas originally they had a Citadel that manufactured a limitless number of Synths.

Yea, cyk has a good point. Wee see a shit load of guys and gunships on the bridge, and only the big guys come. Somehow, the gunships got lost along the way.

You think their path to White Forest was free of obstacles?

i mean gordon and alyx together is enough to warrant shitting your pants if you are combine.

I loled.

 

[Zombine]

Yea, cyk has a good point. Wee see a shit load of guys and gunships on the bridge, and only the big guys come. Somehow, the gunships got lost along the way.

White Forest sentries are probably doing their job,hence the crashed dropship with strider.

 

[Teta_Bonita]

Perhaps it was all they could muster at the moment. Or maybe Valve didn't want to make the final battle frustratingly shitty by swarming the player with enemies and raping your fps.

 

[cyk]

Perhaps it was all they could muster at the moment. Or maybe Valve didn't want to make the final battle frustratingly shitty by swarming the player with enemies and raping your fps.

The thing was already pretty shitty.

Honestly, I would rather have no Striders and no Magnussons and just have a balls-to-the-wall fight with Hunters and Soldiers. And, again, this would have been an awesome time for a full Synth introduction, allowing Gordon to take a few shots at them (though it'd be pretty un-Valve-like for Gordon to confront them in a combat situation).

 

[leib10]

This seems to be what happened. Being non-mechanized, the Overwatch soldiers got left behind by the Hunters and Striders, which can travel much more quickly. Seeing as the rocket was nearly ready for launch, the Combine decided to go ahead with the attack without infantry support.

You see this happening in warfare all the time.

 

[scotland1]

Yeah it did look awesome with the combine and gunships but just focusing on the striders and hunters was better.

 

[UseAbuse]

someone needs to protect the advisors while the big boys fight.

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

At least one gunship would've been a nice touch. Perhaps after all the striders were defeated. You defeat the striders, roll back to the gates of the silo, and whoosh, gunship appears over the horizon and starts picking off resistance. An NPC on one of the playforms yells, 'Hey, Freeman' and tosses the RPG down to you...

 

[Tagaziel]

Most of the soldiers got killed during their incursion in the secondary silo, remember?

 

[Asknoone]

At least one gunship would've been a nice touch. Perhaps after all the striders were defeated. You defeat the striders, roll back to the gates of the silo, and whoosh, gunship appears over the horizon and starts picking off resistance. An NPC on one of the playforms yells, 'Hey, Freeman' and tosses the RPG down to you...

That would be too forced/bad for pacing, I think.

As much as I usually love a gunship battle, I personally enjoyed the Chopper/Gravity Gun set-piece, which was really pretty innovative and fun. Maybe we'll see a new approach taken with the Gunships in 3.

 

[Iron_cube]

I don't understand valve's new approach on their source games difficulty.

HL1 had tentacles who could one-hit-kill you. Some grunts were seen using mp5 grenades. Barnacles did massive damage in ONE bite.

The only hl2 npc who deals quite a bunch without having to hit the player many, many times is the poison crab.

 

[Moonraker]

i dont know, i personally thought it was a blast. i had fun the whole time, and i still want more. THATS what its about. i just finished ep2 last night, and i freaking cried (okay i didnt cry, but i kinda teared up)... it was like a movie. i just dont think i could ask for more. its great. cant wait to give the combine more crowbar-to-the-face.

 

[Asknoone]

HL1 had tentacles who could one-hit-kill you. Some grunts were seen using mp5 grenades. Barnacles did massive damage in ONE bite.

Yeah, but like, it's called improvement. Something that can kill you in one hit is stupid.

 

[Iron_cube]

Barnacles becoming annoyances instead of deadly traps isn't what I'd call an improvement tbh :hmph:

 

[cyk]

Barnacles becoming annoyances instead of deadly traps isn't what I'd call an improvement tbh :hmph:

Barnacles should definitely be one-hit kill.

Am I the only one who thought the last battle sucked ass? Shoot. Drive. Repeat. Shoot Drive. Repeat. They built this great level and your only ****ing enemies were Hunters and Striders.

Someone should make a mod that creates a better version of the final battle. Ooh, one thing that would have been badass: paradropping Combine forces (or rappeling) coming from Dropships that can't find a clear place to land.

 

[Calhoun]

Barnacles becoming annoyances instead of deadly traps isn't what I'd call an improvement tbh :hmph:

I agree. There were some places in Half-Life which are more difficult than Half-Life 2 or the Episodic series.

Yeah, but like, it's called improvement. Something that can kill you in one hit is stupid.

Lack of difficulty is not an improvement, but rather a design decision to make the game easier to play. The fact that a soldier is instructed, by his code, to fire his pulse rifle grenade earlier upon sighting the player, so that it will not reach the player before it explodes, or the fact that he is coded to rush the player when he is armed with the super gravity gun is, if anything at all, a step backwards in intelligence of the enemies and not an improvement. It's not an improvement to remove difficult scenarios and make the enemies stupid, rather than making the player have to think and adapt to their enemies.

I don't know though, it's my personal preference to have enemies which are challenging, and not simply something to shoot at and kill while they pretend to do something smart. If anything, a separate coded artificial intelligence should have been accessible to be activated in the game, rather than being stuck with mentally challenged soldiers rushing me while I am throwing all of their friends around like pillows, with a weapon they've never seen before. I did say, however, it was a design decision by Valve, for whatever reason - lack of interest in developing a complex, challenging artificial intelligence as they had planned in 2003, or lack of experienced coders who could achieve that level of intelligence in their artificial intelligence, which they'd shown a rough idea for how the final product would be, through scripting.

As for the tentacle specifically, the gameplay of the Blast Pit required silence and evasion and improvising tactics to distract the tentacle, to get clear and eventually destroy it. Being impaled by the tentacle in a single strike was a reasonable penalty for acting careless, similar to being killed nearly instantly when you drive off of the cliffs in Half-Life 2, at the Coast, or when you swim too far out into the water.

 

[kupocake]

This has been discussed before. They would need to have included another baked instance of the maps for all the different enemies and whatnot. That's pretty much impossible, if you ask me.

That's not really true. All they have to do is put in the functionality for having spawning points for enemies that only open up on certain difficulties, giving you more enemies to fight on certain stages. Older FPSs used to do this all the time. The only reason they don't do it is because it would be hell to playtest, but I don't really understand their obsession with making people ballsy enough to play through on 'hard' coast through the game just in case they get bored with dying go away and cry because the mean old game doesn't play fair. I admire their approach in making sure that Joe and Joanna Average get through the game without feeling that games are too hard for them, but so much more could be done to cater for people who actually want to be challenged.

Besides, for a company that not only wants everyone to get through to the end, but also wants them to play again, why set the difficulty levels to 'practically god mode', 'oww you grazed my knee' and 'boohoohoo, I died in that prison level that one time'. I shouldn't want to play this game through on Hard the first time I play.

edit: The Final battle was good enough, but the second wave couldn't have been more redundant if it tried. Valve's enemy placement is usually pretty good, so why did they resort to giving the combine a Space Invader mentality? They appear from the same distance, occasionally they do so faster, and there are more of them, but so?

 

[Jintor]

This seems to be what happened. Being non-mechanized, the Overwatch soldiers got left behind by the Hunters and Striders, which can travel much more quickly. Seeing as the rocket was nearly ready for launch, the Combine decided to go ahead with the attack without infantry support.

You see this happening in warfare all the time.

This is a good ingame explanation.

/EDIT I'm choosing to bear in mind that this is Episode Two, and thus hope that the finale for Episode 3 will make up for the Finale battles of Episode One and Two.

 

[Wanted Bob]

I guess the Battle at White Forest Inn is sorta this idea of more soldiers and hunters, and no striders. Together they make excellent battle scenes.

 

[SpectreBlofeld]

Barnacles should definitely be one-hit kill.

Am I the only one who thought the last battle sucked ass? Shoot. Drive. Repeat. Shoot Drive. Repeat. They built this great level and your only ****ing enemies were Hunters and Striders.

Someone should make a mod that creates a better version of the final battle. Ooh, one thing that would have been badass: paradropping Combine forces (or rappeling) coming from Dropships that can't find a clear place to land.

Ah, memories of seeing your first military chopper in Half-Life 1, with grunts rappelling down while spraying you with automatic rifle fire!

 

[Omnomnick]

It was 'the playtesters' again, being too stupid at games and not having the brain span to click 'Difficulty - Easy' which is why alot of good ideas in HL are cut to make room for different ones

 

[morgs]

Barnacles should definitely be one-hit kill.

Am I the only one who thought the last battle sucked ass? Shoot. Drive. Repeat. Shoot Drive. Repeat. They built this great level and your only ****ing enemies were Hunters and Striders.

Someone should make a mod that creates a better version of the final battle. Ooh, one thing that would have been badass: paradropping Combine forces (or rappeling) coming from Dropships that can't find a clear place to land.

Yeah, I was expecting something more linear, instead of rushing from point a to b to c and back to a again and again, same process over and over, still fun tho.

 

[Cheomesh]

The last battle was fine but I think it would have been cooler with fewer hunters and some (not a ton) of supporting infantry. Gunships would be fine too.

In fact...


The battle takes place a short distance from white forest, somewhat further than you where in the last bit. The enemy forces consist of gunships, infantry, striders, and some hunters. (APC's too maybe, driving up and disgorging troops) You have yourself, Alyx (actually doing some of the fighting) and Resistance members that are actually fighting. As in, actually killing things like gunships with RPG's.

To be honest, I know it's a gameplay element, but the vend-o-striderbuster felt like a cop out. The striders where no sweat and the only issue I had with the game was with the hunters being a little more than frustrating.

I never had to worry about screwing up and running out of anti-strider ammo. Was even easier than the times when we have infinite rocket boxes.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

Gunship has no (official) gigantic laser to destroy facility.

They are purely there to harass the opposing forces on the ground

 

[corpulent]

I agree. There were some places in Half-Life which are more difficult than Half-Life 2 or the Episodic series.

Lack of difficulty is not an improvement, but rather a design decision to make the game easier to play. The fact that a soldier is instructed, by his code, to fire his pulse rifle grenade earlier upon sighting the player, so that it will not reach the player before it explodes, or the fact that he is coded to rush the player when he is armed with the super gravity gun is, if anything at all, a step backwards in intelligence of the enemies and not an improvement. It's not an improvement to remove difficult scenarios and make the enemies stupid, rather than making the player have to think and adapt to their enemies.

The end portion of HL2 would've been pretty dumb if all the combine soldiers did was run away from you. The combine soldiers are probably loyal to a fault and are modified to such an extent that they aren't really "human". As such this mechanic (them running at you despite your superiority) could be easily explained by saying that because gordon was near godlike towards the end of HL2, the combine soldiers were essentially instructed to throw their lives away in an attempt to impede his progress.

Also, the soldiers do posess some pretty decent AI, they just die fast so you don't get to see it too often. (I believe this was mentioned in a commentary node)

As for the tentacle specifically, the gameplay of the Blast Pit required silence and evasion and improvising tactics to distract the tentacle, to get clear and eventually destroy it. Being impaled by the tentacle in a single strike was a reasonable penalty for acting careless, similar to being killed nearly instantly when you drive off of the cliffs in Half-Life 2, at the Coast, or when you swim too far out into the water.

The blast pit was the single most annoying section for me in the original Half Life game. It was not fun, (for me) it was tedious. I would get impaled by the stupid tentacle and think "that was NOT a reasonable penalty for my finger completely cramping up on me".

The only parts in HL1 that I thought were more difficult were some of the jumping puzzles. But that was usually because of some control issues. (WHY DID GORDON SLIDE OFF THAT PLATFORM!?!?!?!)

 

[esplin]

I will agree that the Combine soldiers do have good AI. One of my favorite pass times is to spawn Elites and Rebels on the lighthouse map in HL2 and watch the carnage. I was very surprised when I played SMOD and the Combine actually lived long enough to flank me and use suppressing fire. I was like, "HOLY COW! They are smart."

I'm almost certain that the soldiers do more damage in Episode 2 then they do in HL2, hopefully this is the first step towards revamping the soldiers.

 

[leib10]

I thought so too. The Combine Soldiers were a lot more dangerous in Episode Two, especially if they were armed with an AR2 or Shotgun and on Hard difficulty. I've died far more times fighting them than I ever have before.

 

[delusional]

Most of the soldiers got killed during their incursion in the secondary silo, remember?

What he said. it explains why there weren't any soldiers. cuz Gordon already killed them.

 

[cyk]

God, I would take a better-made final battle or an extended silo scene ending with a few Hunters and maybe a Gunship over the current ending any day. The silo battle was weak as hell, except for the awesome Hunter scene.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

I really hope someone mods the final battle cause i hated the final one it's a real pain when the game crashes every time you touch a hunter with the car.

My main worry is that with each passing Half Life it's just going to keep getting dumbed down. I mean if I can play it on hard without dieing then there is a problem.

 

[Saruke]

Ok let me try to explain something to you all. Valve is doing what all companies do. They are trying to make money, and the only way to do that is to attract customers to their games. They know that your all going to buy it no matter what because you liked the first one so much. So their job is to get new people to play. And they won't get new people into their games if they make them so hard that only fanatical (like you) half life fans can beat it. They need to make it easy enough for some schmuck to come off the street, buy it, take it home and play it without dying every three seconds.

 

[cyk]

Ok let me try to explain something to you all. Valve is doing what all companies do. They are trying to make money, and the only way to do that is to attract customers to their games. They know that your all going to buy it no matter what because you liked the first one so much. So their job is to get new people to play. And they won't get new people into their games if they make them so hard that only fanatical (like you) half life fans can beat it. They need to make it easy enough for some schmuck to come off the street, buy it, take it home and play it without dying every three seconds.

yeah, but the final battle still sucks