THE REAL DEAL with the HL2 source

[Morgon]

Re: Am I missing something here?

Originally posted by Sunchild
I would argue that it is downright *negligent* to keep the entire source code on an Internet-accessible machine, esp. one that has Outlook on it. <etc etc>

What I'm betting is that Gabe's machine was infected via Outlook, and he had a network drive mapped to the game source. The machine itself probably doesn't have internet access, but somehow Gabe must have had either a direct connection, or access to whatever machine had a direct connection, for the persons responsible to be able to break through.

 

[Gamera]

Some have been asking questions about possible discoveries of anti-nVidia code, I'll try and answer.

Highly unlikey, especially unlikely that even if there was you could pinpoint anything specific. nVidia and ATI have taken very different approaches to shader technology, much of HL2's graphical effects are bult using shaders.

A shader is a program that runs on the processor of the graphics card (GPU) taking the load off of the main CPU for graphics processing, there are currently two types, vertex shaders and pixel (or fragment) shaders. The first can manipulate 3D geometry, perhaps for animation, the second adjusts the colour of individual pixels (fragments) being drawn to the graphics buffer.

The current specification for shader functionality is PS2.0 as used by DirectX 9 and is fully implemented by the current range of ATI cards, the GeforceFX series does not which is where the problem lies. ATI also has fixed data length of 24 bits per color channel where as nVidia's is flexible at cost of speed, the difference means many times you have to program specifically for nVidia to get a fully optimised speed, only Carmack has really gone down this route, others stick to the standard.

By way of note. I brought a Radeon 9700 specifically for HLSL programming, generally ATI cards are better suited to OpenGL based programs and nVidia to DirectX. The ATI image quality is also much better, the cooler fans are also much smaller and quieter.

 

[Llevar]

Originally posted by ComCray
Llevar (and others): It's like with rabbits. After they've managed to multiply are you going to say "ah, we're too late, let them go, lets see what the future brings" and let the population out of control? no, you immediately take measures ensuring it doesn't. The fewer copy's of that code around the better (for valve, let that be said). some of that 1% might lose the file(s) in one way or another (I can think of some scenario's) Some of that 1% might not actually have it. Getting it should be all but impossible if not a tedious job.
As for the hardcore group which can actually use it and have it allready? yeah, lets hope there be some pretty kick ass mods out there.. but why going for "just" a kick-ass mod when you got enough of the source to build your own kick-ass game..?? Mods keep Half-life umm.. alife.. not other games..

The public spreading through web-sites and p2p networks will probably become a non-issue quite soon. You see, downloading these files is VERY illegal and could probably land you in jail for quite some time. Valve will surely be taking steps to figure out who exactly is downloading these files right now. Given the magnitude of the theft they could probably get a court order requiring ISPs to divulge private user info. In a couple of days Valve will most likely make some sort of officiall statement regarding the legal implications of downloading these files. Then all it will take is for a few people to get served and these files will be gone off all kinds of traceable channels on the net. It's a free-for-all now, but a little while from now any kind of public admittance of having seen these files or information contained in them may result in legal action taken against you and then these files will seemingly fall off the face of the earth.

 

[liquidfx13]

ya know......if you dumbass programmers new how to secure your boxen as well as write code none of this would have happened....my suggestion.....fire your network admin (and if that is one of you coders, take yourself out back and shoot yourself), get yourself another network admin that specializes in security.....and if you can't handle all that unplug your important boxen from the net.....damn you guys are dumb.....another thing.....this sounds like an inside job....just a thought


walks away mumbling something about stupid ass coders.....

 

[Doc Brass]

Someone posted in another thread here that once Valve updates/changes some code, that anyone trying to use the old/hacked build, would immediately be pinpointed and refused admittance through Steam. Is this a possiblity?

 

[incorrigible]

Re: p2p network control

Originally posted by ComCray
I've got an idea how to help Valve with some damagecontrol.

That the sourcecode is currently hitting the p2p networks is not a surprise but probably a nightmare for Gabe and co. Though the damage is allready done its still possible to try and contain the spread through conventional internet ways, not so with the p2p networks

Forget it. It's out and will never be found/crushed 100%. I'm sure it's burned to hundreds of CD's already.

Multiplayer cheating is not one of Valves primary concers right now. Primary concerns are:

1) It's source code for it's new engine is out although I persoanally don't think this will have a substantial impact on Source engine licensing. Valid big game companies that want to use the technology will license it.
Anyone who copies enough of it to where source code copying is suspected will probably result in some kind of legal injuction to inspect the source code to see if it was glommed from Valves source. I don't think many legit companies would chance going this route.

2) Third party source code that Valve licensed is out and Valve could be sued for negligence due to lack of security.

3) The source for Steam (their big revenue generator to distribute software themselves) is out.


I don't believe that some dweebs writing MP cheats is their primary concern right now.

 

[gloryofbach]

Gamera has just picked on an EXTREMELY important issue that I forgot to mention.

When you are developing a game, it can be an extremely complicated and time consuming business (somone once said software engineering is the most complex activity done by man). In 99.9% of cases the public will not get to see the source code, as when the game is finished, the source code is compiled into machine code executables.

Machine code executables are useless to anyone trying to work out what the original source code contained. Reverse engineering them back to high level source code is difficult verging on impossible in some cases. So with this in mind, consider that Valve's source code was expected to be 100% PRIVATE for Valve employees eyes only.

Now here comes the important part: If you are writing a PRIVATE romantic email to your girlfriend, you write in it things you would never dream of, nor expect to be revealed to the public, say your mother. The same goes for source code:

I am not making any accusations or insunuations, but in 90% of all the PRIVATE NOT MEANT FOR RELEASE source code I have seen in the gaming industry, I have seen dodgy code or comments that would not be acceptable for public consumption. What do I mean by this: snippets of copyrighted source code that have been used without permission to take shortcuts in functions, insulting remarks about companies/products in the comments, optimisations for specific graphics hardware and not for others, and other highly dodgy practices that happen all the time in games development. Programmers are not robots. We often slip in stuff in the source code that we would never reveal to people outside the team, for fear of losing our jobs/litigation.

The key thing is that when your game goes Gold, you do a final compile on all your source code, and it doesn't matter if there are some potentially embarassing things in them, as when in machine code, they are basically locked from prying eyes. Valve has not had an opportunity to censor their code. It was stolen without consent. It is early days now, but as the source code is systematically analysed by people who have it, do not be surprised when the accusations start flying. I would be surprised if there is not something controversial in the source code, amongst the thousands of lines.

 

[MooCow]

Everyone is going on about cheats and exploits but I feel most people are working under a misconception, open source does not mean insecure. For example look at windows, closed source full of holes, compare that to linux, open source, practically air tight.

 

[Gamera]

Originally posted by Doc Brass
Someone posted in another thread here that once Valve updates/changes some code, that anyone trying to use the old/hacked build, would immediately be pinpointed and refused admittance through Steam. Is this a possiblity?

I know little about networking, mostly graphics and AI. But yes, the code gives an understanding of how Steam operates in the first place however, it wouldn't be very clever to compile and run it straight off the bat, doing that will be while Valve change it. Mostly this source leak will cause delay while Steam and network code is updated and mean that removing all stream support from the final version becomes much easier, therfore pirate versions become available.

The best way to prevent this is to ship a HL2 that requires a huge patch to run with major updates, that can only be supplied by Steam, then keep patching, that's what Steam is for. Doing that should reduce the amount of people willing to pirate by quite a margin.

 

[Gotham]

Re: THE REAL DEAL with the half Life 2 source

Originally posted by gloryofbach
I've seen a lot of confusion about what the Half-life 2 source is and isn't, whether it can be compiled into a working copy of the game or not, and whether this is bad or not for Valve.

I am a small time games developer myself and for the benefit of those in the community not into software programming or knowledgeable in games development, I thought I'd try and give a brief explanation. Apologies to the experts as some simplifications have been made for general consumption.

1) A game like Half-life 2 consists of two main elements, resources and programming code.

The resources consist mostly of all the non-logic/instruction based elements of a game, that is the art, textures, sound, story script, maps etc. Things like the model and textures for the headcrab is typical of this. This is the largest part of a game in size, for a game like Half-life 2 typically over a gigabyte of the game will be resources. These resources cannot do anything by themselves, and if you have the right software, can be viewed/played as when making a mod. These are like the bricks and wood for the "house" Valve was building.

The program code consists of the logic and instructions as to how the game will function. That is to say, the code directs the computer in how to utilize the resources mentioned above, in the correct manner to allow you to play a game. Examples of what would be included in the program code are the Source engine, the Havoc engine for physics, artificial intelligence routines, game launcher code etc. Using the analogy above with the headcrab, the corresponding program code would be the animation rules for the headcrab, its artificial intelligence behavior, its stats etc.
This is like the architectural plan of the "house" Valve was building.

2) To play the game (as you will when it is released) you need the program code and the resources. What has been leaked is the program code, which amounted to around 160 megabytes of text (though this did include some non half life 2 related code), which is a SERIOUS amount of code. The resources for half life 2 are not included, and they would have amounted to at least a gigabyte.

When programmers write code, they write it in so called high level language like C++. A high level language is one that is easy to understand to humans, so that editing it is easy during development. This is known as the source code, and is what Valve will be working on right until half life 2 goes Gold. This is what has been leaked to the public. The source code has many lines of C++ code, which you will have trouble understanding if you do not know C++ (though it is very easy to learn!), and some comments that explain what the code is doing.

A computer is not designed to directly execute C++ code, which has been designed for a human to read. Instead it executes machine code, a far lower level language which is very hard for a human to understand. Coding in machine code would be a nightmare for a programmer and so they prefer to use C++ and other high level languages. Now for the computer to understand Valve's C++ source code, it must be converted to machine code. This is what a COMPILER does. Valve will run a compiler on the source code every so often, creating a bunch of executable files (machine code based) that can then be used to run the game and test the changes made to the source code. This is what you get when you buy a game: Resources and the compiled source code to run them.

As such, the fact that the source code is in the public domain does not mean that anyone can compil

 

[Gotham]

Re: THE REAL DEAL with the half Life 2 source

Stupid focus is on "submit", posted comment by accident immeadiately. Will post actual comment next

 

[Ahnteis]

Re: Re: THE REAL DEAL with the half Life 2 source

Originally posted by Gotham
Stupid focus is on "submit", posted comment by accident immeadiately. Will post actual comment next

Did you know there's a magical EDIT button on these forums that lets you correct these kinds of mistakes?

 

[gloryofbach]

Hehe, Gotham, I *HIGHLY* recommend you don't quote my entire first post in this thread, as it was long enough the first time!!!!

 

[Gotham]

Re: THE REAL DEAL with the half Life 2 source

I just registered on this forum to dispell some false information and do panic-control.

The thread beginner's explanation on source code was good, but I differ in the implications of the leak.

Originally posted by gloryofbach
Now everyone knows how you solved all those problems which prevented people from building revolutionary solar powered houses.

Talk about shitty analogies. Exactly how would THAT be bad?

All its clever routines and algorithms for making a revolutionary game like half life 2 tick, are available to be understood by anyone who knows C++, including game development rivals, hackers making cheats and exploits and the general public.

Game developers can't use it, at least not to a large degree. It would be noticed. Hackers have always been able to make cheats, the best recourse gainst them has always been, is, and will be, game server administrator -issued banning, based on global unique IDs (CDkeys, WONids, SteamIDs), or failing that, IPs. This could be centralized so that a user who is banned on X servers gets banned from all servers agreeing to this banlist. As to the general public, well! It's good that they get to have a peek, it promotes security. Not to mention the fact that now people can do free work for Valve, correcting and improving their code.

More worryingly the source code seems to contain a lot of source code from partner software developers that Valve had licensed to use in Half- life 2, such as the Havoc physics engine, and that Valve is contract bound to keep protected and confidential. These leaks enable people to potentially rip off these software partners too, and hence opens Valve to be sued.

ok you have a point here

The potential for hacking exploits is enormous; it is like printing the blueprint to your high security safe in the local newspaper before having it installed in your home. SERIOUS work is needed now to rework the source code to protect it from future attacks on release. Let us not even mention that it seems Steam has been seriously compromised as well in the leaked source, as that had enough problems of its own to be getting on with without this.

In another post you write:

Any Steam multiplayer CD key authentification mechanism, as well as payment detail and personal details transmission methods may be compromised as Steam source code seems to be included in the source leak.

Nuhhuh. Dude. Ever heard of "security through obscurity"? Google it.

Machine code executables are useless to anyone trying to work out what the original source code contained. Reverse engineering them back to high level source code is difficult verging on impossible in some cases

This is exaggerated. You underestimate the power of reverse engineering.

Now here comes the important part: If you are writing a PRIVATE romantic email to your girlfriend, you write in it things you would never dream of, nor expect to be revealed to the public, say your mother. The same goes for source code:

omg. omfg! What a stretch. Besides, I find source code leaks very amusing in precisely the respect that they can reveal internal stuff not directrly related to the task at hand that the developers had preferred to keep hidden.


other people wrote...
This is an absolute nightmare. The game industry's September 11th.

panic much?

Just imagine what would happen if the Windows souce code was leaked

it has been leaked

The source-code has been leaked so the technology is on the street. Valve has just given the world 5 years of their hard work for free...


I know, it's cool

Valve has lost huge on this on so many levels it is hard to conceive of all the reprocussions this will have on the company, the industry, and the gamers.

panic much?

Also, as someone pointed out, noone will want to license Source now for their games because its tainted

hahaha. false. "tainted"? wtf? If anything, they will now be more interested in licensing it when they get a good look at what they're gonna get!

This leak may be bad in some respects, but it's hardly a huge disaster.

 

[Gotham]

Ahnteis, precisely what mechanism do you think I employed after noticing my error?

 

[hl2_mods]

Re: Re: THE REAL DEAL with the half Life 2 source

Originally posted by Deficite

By the time they release a game from the stolen source code, the Half Life 2 engine will probably be obsolete.

Man, are you really reading what you are typing?
There are a A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE THAT COULD ACTUALLY DO THAT.
I'm sorry, do you know how much work it would take to do that?

They worked on it for 5 Years with a TEAM of folks that's ALL they did for their JOB.

NO, this will actually end of causing MORE people tp BUY the GAME NOW, due to the pubcity....You have people that WILL BUY aHALF-LIFE 2 now just to see what all the FUSE is over...they might have just increased their sales by numbers that cannot be fathomed or caluclated.


GET REAL...

 

[Mountain Man]

Originally posted by MooCow
Everyone is going on about cheats and exploits but I feel most people are working under a misconception, open source does not mean insecure. For example look at windows, closed source full of holes, compare that to linux, open source, practically air tight.

That is actually an excellent point.

This could potentially allow Valve the benefit of an open source model through third party code auditors who submit code fixes to Valve. But then you have the issue that anybody who submits such code will be blatantly admitting to having an illegal copy of the source code which would open them up to legal action. This would only work in Valve's favor if they were willing to accept code submissions from the public. But even that solution is wrought with problems.

In short, Valve is in one hell of a mess at the moment.

 

[Baal]

I am not reading all of this (I read first page or so....), my question is:


did this leak cause the delay?

4) Around 9/19 someone made a copy of the HL-2 source tree.

 

[incorrigible]

Re: Re: Re: THE REAL DEAL with the half Life 2 source

Originally posted by hl2_mods
You have people that WILL BUY aHALF-LIFE 2 now just to see what all the FUSE is over

FUSE ... Let's light it!

j/k Couldn't resist. Please no flames.

 

[kinggi]

im telling you people the shits gonna hit the fan when the guy releases the full 1 gig file that is the game after hes done hacking it. Im not sure if i could withstand the temptation of playing the full game now or a year from now......and i know neither can you.

 

[Mountain Man]

Re: Re: THE REAL DEAL with the half Life 2 source

Originally posted by Gotham
The source-code has been leaked so the technology is on the street. Valve has just given the world 5 years of their hard work for free...


I know, it's cool

Dude, it most certainly is not cool!

 

[MooCow]

I am not reading all of this

Perhaps usuing the search feature would be a wise investment of you time then.

 

[Dedalus]

Originally posted by vhold
This is probably going to be a very uncommon opinion, but.. I usually try to find the bright side of things..

It makes sense to me that anybody in a position to license it like you and others may be more likely to license it then ever..

If your main concern is that its too easy to cheat against now, thats probably already being addressed.

The way I see it is that people sitting on the fence right now wondering if they should license the Source engine could sneak a bit of a preview at what they'll be dealing with, and from all the comments on how well its documented it would seem that they would get a fairly favorable impression. I know its totally illegit but I think its probably already happening.

Also, licensing Source most likely gets you a lot of cooperation from Valve on new features, developer assistence, and basically access to their overall talent, things that you can't exactly steal.

when i say we're not sure what to do, i mean exactly that. we haven't been told any exclusive developments in terms of the engine or whether they're proceeding well in the production of steam etc, all we're told is if we'll get the SDK or not. so judging by what we've witnessed, we can only assume that it's best to wait until something more substantial is announced/discovered. a few months of delay for myself and my team won't be that much of a big deal. it's very annoying and upsetting but i'm prepared to sit this out and be 100% sure that Source will be Valve's again.

if the reason for the delay was because of the illegal network access, that means they've been working on this problem for a couple of weeks now. which means their estimate of 'holiday season' may not be far off. although having said that, gloryofbach brings up some good points about how they'll need to rework a lot of the engine. going by his list, it could take a LOT longer then valve anticipate it to take. but they're a talented team, and this 'violation' of their livelihood most likely will have strengthened their resolve. check my quote out, "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful then you can possibly imagine." Obi-Wan wasn't talking a load of hogwash you know.

although having said that, valve do know their shit and i have the utmost respect for a developer that A. resepects their community so much and has such a fruitful relationship with them, B. has the balls to put all the money they made from HL1 into HL2. history shows that they know what they're doing.

 

[Ruben]

This is so so badly serious, i cant even imagine. Imagine how they feel right now. Oh man, i think i want to cry. This is a huge pile of crap that just hit the fan! ... ... i have no words. Got damn **** tards! Damn you all to hell! Who did this. There must be a way of finding them. There is no words describing what i want to do with idiots like that. Seriously!

They need to be exposed. They need to be caught, punished and then exposed to the public. Thanks for the post. It made me realise how bad this is.

mommy.... mommy... please make all those monster and this nightmare go away. Please... brain... delete all this.

 

[Lizard]

Taken from the "Info from Valve" thread:

Q: Now that the leak information is out in the open, was this the reason for the delay?

A: No.

 

[Dedalus]

Ruben it's pretty heavy shit but there's no point denying it.

best thing you can do is get yourself a copy of mIRC, log onto the efnet servers, and start PM'ing some of the warez ops. i've tried this myself but i either get kicked or banned or both.

i believe the best way to stop it is to go directly to the distributors. they would be the drug worlds equivalent of a street dealer and his supplier.

if you know where the source can be downloaded from, visit the channel and politely direct the ops to Gabe's post aswell as this one. although most of them are pirates and i have about as much respect for them as i have for dog shit, they are at least humans and have a shred of decency, most of them CAN be reasoned with.

just don't PM them saying "YOU FECKING BASTARD YOU STOLE HALF-LIFE 2!!!". that won't get you anywhere.

 

[gloryofbach]

Gotham,

Thanks for your considered reply. I hope to keep this thread informative for the community by clearing up some of the points you made, but note I will not be going into any to and fro replies (partly because I have my own game deadline to meet!).

1) "Talk about shitty analogies. Exactly how would THAT be bad?"

It would be great from an environmental point of view if someone discovered how to make a revolutionary solar powered house (whatever that may be, assume its a house that generates ALL of its own power requirements), and the blueprints were leaked, so we could all make our own houses like this without paying fees for the technology. However from a commercial point of view the technology that goes into making such a house would likely be extremely valuable to the inventor, and having this information leaked is theft of his intellectual property. If you do not think this is bad, you probably have never authored valuable intellectual property content.

2)"Game developers can't use it, at least not to a large degree. It would be noticed."

This is naive to the extreme. Take it from someone working in the games development industry, this goes on all the time unfortunately, and just as common in app development. When the source is compiled, you will need court orders and adequate proof to demand a perusal through the source code. It is extremely difficult to prove a feature is HL2 related without seeing a HL2 logo on it We will not be seeing striders in the next game by *FPS DEVELOPER 1*, instead we will see well developed large creature AI that matches or bests the work that Valve have done, maybe due to some hints from the HL2 source. Can you prove its HL2 related. Hell no. Is it IP theft? Hell yes.

3)"Nuhhuh. Dude. Ever heard of "security through obscurity"? Google it."

Thanks for the tip. I did and the first result was: http://slashdot.org/features/980720/0819202.shtml

Kind of ironic.

4) "This is exaggerated. You underestimate the power of reverse engineering."

I spent three years of a Doctorate Degree covering this topic as well as Alife issues. Rest assured if reverse engineering was as easy as you claim, there would not be a commercial software industry.

 

[Llevar]

Re: Re: THE REAL DEAL with the half Life 2 source

Originally posted by Gotham

Originally posted by gloryofbach
Now everyone knows how you solved all those problems which prevented people from building revolutionary solar powered houses.

Talk about shitty analogies. Exactly how would THAT be bad?

It's called intellectual property that is privately owned.

It's pretty obviously bad for those who own it cause now they cannot charge for it, nor can they control who gets it.

 

[p00m3rific]

Whew - that was quite a read. Where do i begin? First i was annoyed and felt awful when i learnt of the leak [leak mind you - not theft in my opinion]. The sadness got replaced by anger and a feeling of ridicule towards Valve - I don't feel like bashing their security and their carelessness - a million people have already done it. I saw posts like "We kneel before you my commander" "We would kill for you" "We would die for you" <insert your own thoughts here>.

I haven't downloaded the source out of respect for the company that gave me hundreds of hours in gaming pleasure from HalfLife and it's sequel Opposing Force - the best game(s) in my opinion for months. Now that i've read the posts here, time to make a few observations.

1. Source code openly available via theft/leak/oopsiestuff is NOT opensource - opensource is a very different concept - sure the source is out in the open but it is not opensource.

2. If you were to steal the windows source code, you would die from madness if you read through it - a few million lines of code and what the hell would you do without the APIs? To all the morons who say windows is shitty and linux is teh god : i have one question: "Have you paid for your copy of windows?" If so, good for you, rant on to MS - if not please shut up.

3. About the Outlook hack/vulnerability - was it the case that Gabe didn't patch his email client and left it open to attack?

I sympathize with Valve but i can't believe they would be so stupid so as to let something this big happen - hope they come out stronger.

/edit1:
1. Somehere said something about "security through obscurity" - security through obscurity is not security...period.
2. The power of reverse engineering was also mentioned - well my stand is "dont over-estimate the power of reverse-engineering" - also reverse engineering is illegal kind sir.

 

[Dedalus]

Originally posted by gloryofbach

2)"Game developers can't use it, at least not to a large degree. It would be noticed."

This is naive to the extreme. Take it from someone working in the games development industry, this goes on all the time unfortunately, and just as common in app development. When the source is compiled, you will need court orders and adequate proof to demand a perusal through the source code. It is extremely difficult to prove a feature is HL2 related without seeing a HL2 logo on it

he's right. i've witnessed it during a couple of my previous teams. BUT, having said that it only happened once and they were a disorganised lot anyway. any teams with half a brain will know better than to do large cut and paste jobs with the source code.

hopefully developers will think twice before using anything from Source largely because of the attention this is getting, it's now been made a taboo almost. it would take someone very brave now to attempt any kind of integration with their own material.

 

[king John I]

Have you thought yet that this is just one big publicity stunt?
it could be, just think about it.
vavle may of planned some kind of fix then purposly release the source code to increase hype and sales.
this is just a theory, dont flame me.

 

[Llevar]

Originally posted by Dedalus
he's right. i've witnessed it during a couple of my previous teams. BUT, having said that it only happened once and they were a disorganised lot anyway. any teams with half a brain will know better than to do large cut and paste jobs with the source code.

hopefully developers will think twice before using anything from Source largely because of the attention this is getting, it's now been made a taboo almost. it would take someone very brave now to attempt any kind of integration with their own material.

If you are a developer yourself and especially if you went to school for it you should know how easy it is to change code to look generic enough to be untraceable to its original version.

 

[Dedalus]

Originally posted by king John I
Have you thought yet that this is just one big publicity stunt?
it could be, just think about it.
vavle may of planned some kind of fix then purposly release the source code to increase hype and sales.
this is just a theory, dont flame me.

i doubt it was some sort of publicity stunt. it seems a little far fetched and doesn't fit in with everything we've seen and heard from valve. read the whole post to make sure you're properly informed.

 

[p00m3rific]

Originally posted by king John I
Have you thought yet that this is just one big publicity stunt?
it could be, just think about it.
vavle may of planned some kind of fix then purposly release the source code to increase hype and sales.
this is just a theory, dont flame me.

A theory? Yes. Dumb ? Yes.

I am not out to flame you but I don't think Valve needed any hype than was already present/generated. There were thousands of gamers ready to buy the game as soon as it came out. It's like the Wachowski brothers doing something stupid/silly to increase the hype for the third movie in the trilogy - simply unnecessary.

 

[Gilligan]

I guess it's about time to quit thinking about HL2 and go back to my normal schedule. It was all hype for millions the last 2 weeks before the 30th. But now since everything has hit the fan it's better just to drop everything and move on. HL2 will be released but not when you expected. Now with all this new info I'm doubting everything. Just expect huge changes very soon. Valve probably wont release any new information for a long while, if any. Also, I'm very afraid I'll have a copy of Doom3 in my hands before Half life 2. But who knows the details right now except for Valve. They could have well known about the leak/theaft long before the "delay" was first announced. Which is a good bet since the lack of information given about the delay in the first place. It also could be the reason the announcement was released so late to the 30th. With everything going on around Valve, along with Gabe's oddly uninformational comments. Expect to be beaten around the bush for quite awhile. It's impossible to know why production was delayed, or if any thing that Valve says is even close to being factual. Is the delay because of Steam? Is the delay because they knew the source was compromised? Is the delay because they just are not finished, as Gabe says himself? If anything, I'm betting Gabe is just humoring us. Valve will tell us "What we want to hear" as long as we believe they are telling the truth. The "holiday release" most like just a ruse to stop a torrent of uncontrolled chaos, while Valve works hard to pound out their own problems. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The problem is now that the information has gone public, will Valve follow up on the holiday release, or figure that they broke one date, they might as well break the next. Which I'm sad to say is a convenient way of thinking. It's not right, but it keeps the populace under control, while they buy some time.

Ideas, thoughts, and feeling are welcome. Thanks for reading.

 

[p00m3rific]

Originally posted by Llevar
If you are a developer yourself and especially if you went to school for it you should know how easy it is to change code to look generic enough to be untraceable to its original version.

Written code is like your signature - it's not really easy to do what you are talking about and not especially for the stuff that the leaked code here does. Which school did you goto again?

 

[StickFigs]

All I have to say is:

****!

I dont think I can wait more than a month for HL2. Something bad is going to happen.

 

[Dedalus]

Originally posted by Llevar
If you are a developer yourself and especially if you went to school for it you should know how easy it is to change code to look generic enough to be untraceable to its original version.

i'm not a programmer by trade but i've had the rudiments of programming taught to me during university. i know it's fairly easy to 'doctor' code to make it look different. the point i was trying to make was that developers would probably show a little 'sportsmanship'. i haven't been in the industry long, but i've been here long enough to know that there are some decent folk developing games who would NEVER dream of stealing intellectual property. yes, you're right, it's possible to change code, i was trying to highlight the human aspect of it, in terms of "I have access but do I want to do this?". it's just a moral issue for developers, i know programmers who simply will not even entertain the idea of doing something like this.

 

[lim.sky]

hmmm..

This is real serious news... and i have registered to this forum
because of it as well..

Anyway, i am too a loyal hl fan and seeing this unbelievable thing
happening, i can only say now that if hl2 is to be release asap or any time in future, i will still buy it.

But i won't complain much either if hl2 is not going to be release.
Everyone lose with this stupid thing happening ; except those
cuplrits and ppl who are going to milk as much as possible from
the leaked source codes and profit from it.

Wish all the best to the development team of hL2 and may them
find the one who hacked and downloaded the source,the ppl
who distributed the source and sue them millions.

For all i know, i 'll have to be contended with halo release for pc atm
and thats about it.

 

[Gamera]

Llevar is quite right, re-writing your own code, or to look like your own code is easy when you've stolen the idea, having the idea is much harder and that's the point. I transferred some (free) cell shading code from one language to another recently, however I didn't invent it's neat approach.

The HL2 code (Yes I took a look, now deleted) is very neatly arranged and commented, making the job much easier.