THE REAL DEAL with the HL2 source

Yes, why don't we speculate a little on whether it was an inside job or not.

I say, probably, mainly because of one reason: I don't think Valve would act so unbelievably stupid to not even employ a simple firewall (not to mention accessing the Internet with a PC that had access to the source code). I know Gabe told a different story, but I don't know whether to trust him on this. I can imagine several reasons why he'd want to keep it secret, e.g. wanting to maintain integrity of Valve and the person who did it by not telling the public about it, or maybe because of ongoing investigations in the case.

Also, the hacker's motives remain unclear: He had nothing to gain by publishing the source code (while remaining unknown), the only thing he did was hurt Valve. This doesn't really fit with the professional behaviour the hacker displayed in his other actions.

Hmm. Maybe the theft and the publishing act were unrelated and done by different persons? Just a thought.

*Sigh* I don't think I'm getting all there is to it. Anybody care to share his opinion on this?
 
http://gtwy.hl2arena.com/#latest reports:

What transpired on Oct 5 2003:

Sorry guys I wasn't able to update last night. If you were in the IRC channel you understood why, anyways I had a phone call last night from someone who is good friends with a lot of the people at VALVe, but dislikes Gabe. He was telling me some quite shocking information... :-(. All I have to say is even though the source code is out, and even though the beta will most likely be released, please buy the game when it comes out. I never usually stress this kind of thing with a game cause I'm not really entirely against warez (because the game companies usually still make a ton of money regardless if I buy the product or not), but if we don't all go buy that game it could mean the difference between functional VALVe or no VALVe. You all don't realize how bad the situation actually is. They are also going to have to deal with like 6 lawsuits when this is all over as well.. I'm sure if they get sued they will counter sue Microsoft though. Blah, I'm scared that Halflife2 might have been canceled (doubtful, but possible). So if the beta comes out, don't spread it, it will be shitty anyways, GAME BETAS ARE ALWAYS ****ING SHITTY. Just wait till this Christmas and buy the ****ing game. Anyone who spreads the beta will have any information we can find about you on this site and the whole community will remember you as the ones who killed VALVe.
 
i doubt it means the end for valve.

I wish valve would set up a pay pal donate on there site,

cuase valve is literally the ONLY company i am willing to give my money to. Infact i've bought half-life(1), 3 times and i still think i owe them more money for the game. I know i would donate some money to them. Just cuase i love them. If you don't think they need more money, we are talking 6 lawsuits. there money exhuasted from a 5 year development of a revolutionary game called hl2.

i will buy hl2 and willing donate enough money to buy it 3x over if they did that.
 
Great idea, Quotidian! They should really do that, I'd donate anytime!
 
Man there is a lot of BS floating around about this. Everybody has suddenly become master C++ programmers and can read cutting edge DirectX code too. :cheese:

Suppose for a moment that Valve delayed the game after the hack because they weren't sure how long the person had access to the source tree and wanted to make sure that no trojan code got put into the game. That's what I would be worrying about if I was Valve. Shipping a game to hundreds of thousands (or millions) of eager fans and having that game put a backdoor on their systems opens you to all kinds of lawsuits.

As for cheating, well there are cheats out there for every online game. To do wall hacks you just need to know a little about OpenGL or Direct3D and aimbots are almost as old as online gaming itself. The game code doesn't mean squat in that respect. Any cheat that relies to heavily on some code in a game is made obsolete as soon as the game is patched. Cheats are a way of life with online games and the only way to defeat cheaters is for the community to police itself, which is exactly what happens today.

So is this the end of the world? No. Is it a massive unrecoverable kick in the nuts for Valve? No. Does it suck something hard? Yes it does.

The code is out there now and no amount of wishing it wasn't will put the genie back in the bottle. So I think that rather than doing all the hindsight looking at Valve's security or chastising some of the hundreds of thousands of people that now have Valve's code it's more important to ask what happens next. That's what is most important to us as the gaming community.

As for the guy that stole the code in the first place, whether he's a 1337 haxor or just some wanna be script kiddie who got lucky doesn't matter. May his karma drag his ass straight to hell.
 
I think it's over.

I see about 3000 peoples download source today. It's can't be stoped.
It's big loose, i work in Nival Interactive, Russian game developer compaign. And i know how much work, need to do. To create Engine like this. I am realy want to say stop don't download it but every one just on't get right thing to stop.
It's realy bad but no one can't stop it. ;( ;( ;( ;( ;( ;(
 
What makes me angry is that the some people are irrationals.

Now, like lexx2k said, it can't be stopped. This kind of people doesn't think on the work and difficulties of this programmers had to make a engine like this.

If these people were a part of the valve team, they would be despaired at the moment. But no... they are only people without ethic.:flame:
 
Originally posted by Dhoco X
What makes me angry is that the some people are irrationals.

Now, like lexx2k said, it can't be stopped. This kind of people doesn't think on the work and difficulties of this programmers had to make a engine like this.

If these people were a part of the valve team, they would be despaired at the moment. But no... they are only people without ethic.:flame:
Click to expand...

And yet I'm willing to bet you don't feel the same about downloading MP3s.

It amazes me that some people will DL MS Office from Warez sites or pull entire CDs of MP3s from Kazaa then turn around and chastise people for looking at stolen code because it's "wrong".

I guess it's all good until it affects you personally in some way.
 
I guess it's all good until it affects you personally in some way.
Click to expand...

It's a combination of that and "everyone else is saying how bad and evil this is I can't be left out. Bad people ILLEGAL ILLEGAL BAD EVIL EVIL HELL DIE, etc.".
 
Wow ! That's a long time ago ! With the morpheus !

I repented myself and now i always buy in store everything that i want.
No matter what is, music cds, hardware, software...

What about you unnamed ?
 
its bollocks

telling ya, i was all psyched that it WAS the modsource. noone can get any use out of it except hackers/crackers really.

the real meat and potatoes of any engine is the media. if someone were to distro a hl2 mod that contained anything from a single texture to a wav from quake3, Id would be on their asses fast.

i wish it WAS the modsource that was leaked, that's what I hoped it was when i saw the article on slashdot. noone can do anything with it, its crap for all intents and purposes to the community.

really do wish it was the modsource so people could get a head's up :/
 
Hmmm, seems like people took my term paper analogy out of context ;(

All well,and as for the leak.

I would never ever download a HL2 beta, even though it would be out weeks in advance of retail. /Bill Clinton mode.

....I would try really hard not to!!!!! I really would!


In seriousness? If the beta is released(And even if it exists) Valve might as well push some version out the door before everyone and their brother has played the stolen warez...
 
Originally posted by Dhoco X
Wow ! That's a long time ago ! With the morpheus !

I repented myself and now i always buy in store everything that i want.
No matter what is, music cds, hardware, software...

What about you unnamed ?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that I've always been an angel of purity myself but it's hypocritical to slam others for doing something when you have done something just as bad. Just because "everybody was doing it" doesn't make it right.

As for me personally, I don't DL MP3s anymore but it has nothing to do with being against it. I buy CDs because I am very particular about the audio quality of my MP3s and I like to do the ripping myself. And as for warez, the last game I pulled from the net was Quake 3 and I bought the Linux version of the game shortly thereafter.

So I'm not out to knock anyone who pulled the source off the net because they wanted something cool to look at. Let's face facts. 99% of the people who have it don't have the slightest clue how to use it. Of course for the 1% that do know what they're looking at it's probably as good as gold.

Like I said, whats important now is what happens next, not what has happened.
 
Originally posted by Unnamed_Player
As for cheating, well there are cheats out there for every online game. To do wall hacks you just need to know a little about OpenGL or Direct3D and aimbots are almost as old as online gaming itself. The game code doesn't mean squat in that respect. Any cheat that relies to heavily on some code in a game is made obsolete as soon as the game is patched. Cheats are a way of life with online games and the only way to defeat cheaters is for the community to police itself, which is exactly what happens today.
Click to expand...

Well said Unnamed_Player, that is exactly my point - people will always find a way around anti-cheat protection no matter how strong it is or how complex the game is.
 
Corperate espoinage? maybe it wasnt just a single hacker, maybe it was a team who know wot they was doing and havnt bragged about it over the hacker circles becuase they didnt want to do this for glory but for information about a revolutionary game, with years of AI work etc!
 
i used to hate valve, for delaying halflife 2 and stuff, and not letting us know or anything, and more, but since this hack, i have much respect for them, and will help in anyway i can. I realise that they are in the time of need, and are asking for us to help, and i think that takes a big amount of respect, to do. I say we help valve out, and maybe we will get this hacker, and get the true feeling of what it is like, to save a game and if not a company. Good luck Valve

Gods Speed
 
Hey now, this is interesting. Does anyone know what else was in the code base that was stolen? I know about the third party stuff but according to the file listing (http://gtwy.hl2arena.com/hl2.txt) there are TF2, CS and HL1 files in there. Are these all seperate games or are these part of the HL2 code? It looks like they might have gotten more than just HL2. I thought TF2 was cancelled.
 
Originally posted by kimo
Actually, what makes u believe that it is "the real thing" that was leaked out or *how real* it is?
Is there anybody out there who can say:,, yep, this is really a hl2 source code."?
No, nobody can, cause even Valve programmers don't know the whole code and if they do, they will not say or they just can't say.
Click to expand...

Do you not believe Gabe? I think he's in a very GOOD position to say "yes, this is our code".
 
Can anyone tell us any more about when Chris Newcombe was 'sacked?' from Valve, if it was before the leak there could be some connection, but it just sounds 2 Cliché for me, company worker gets sacked and Angry so sabotages the company efforts for revenge, yet it could be that simple.

also im not convinced this has anything to do with *****, i think that sourceX got hold of the source code and hitman thought he could boost his rep by braggin he had some involvement with something way out of his league. SourceX realising the portential Danger and of hitmans actions forced him to kick him out of my-g0t.
A clan Well known for creating Cheats for Counter-strike and other games i feel wouldnt be stupid enough to do something like this to a game they are known for hacking alrdy. i think it would much more likely that a individual hacker did this who doesnt desire mainsteam Fame for wot hes done, simply he would be caught way 2 easly, just look at SourceX , hes only been accused by hitman and alrdy hes got FBI phoneing him and probably checking everything hes done on the internet for the past 6months.

hmmmm ;/
 
i dont really think that other companies would use the code if they got their hands on it as it would be obvious that it came from hl2 surely
 
Originally posted by ravenuk
i dont really think that other companies would use the code if they got their hands on it as it would be obvious that it came from hl2 surely
Click to expand...

Not so obvious as you might think. No one would be dumb enough to use it without making changes but it would be up to Valve's lawyers to prove that the code used came from the leaked codebase without having access to the offenders code which is just this side of impossible.
 
Originally posted by Ahnteis
Do you not believe Gabe? I think he's in a very GOOD position to say "yes, this is our code".
Click to expand...

No, he is not. Are u insane? There is no man who can remember 35MB(or how big it is) of uncompiled source code. And for those who didn't understand the meaning of the first paragraph of my first post replay, once again: Not even GABE can say which part of the code is missing or not, because he didn't write for example the physics engine. Yes, everybody knows that there is a physics engine and that it has some functions which return some values but only programmers of the physics engine have some accurate idea about how it works.
Another example: Level designers - Yes, they know about some limitations, some maximum values of who-knows-what which cannot be overdrawn. They know about pixelshaders and how the engine reacts when u are looking at water. But they have no idea how it is written.

There is none a single person who could say which part is missing by having only a look at the code by now, especially a member of the HL2 community. It will take maybe a half year for one person to explore the whole code and to understand it more. And so> I think the game will be out sooner, than anybody can make a step in releasing of something that works fine and with the game RESOURCES(very hard nut).
Example:Do u have an idea how the HL2 model looks like? Do u even know the difference between HL and q3 models?
Nobody is going to release anything now or later and also the source will be modified in the final version not only because of this accident. But everyone can learn from the code, that's true.


The first paragraph of my first replay was reaction on messages like: "And now, the **whole** hl2 code was leaked, everybody can make some stupid aimbot or whatever, cause they have THE CODE. We will kill those bastards!" etc. Blind patriotism. They are making very fast conclusions, the only thing we can do now is just to wait and hope.
 
have you seen this already:?

English:
After many rumors, its true there is a playable version of Half-Life 2 surfing over the net. Someone on ourmirc channel contacted me and send me over his own made video capture. This isnt the cube map, which is normally playable but a fan-created map named qazw. The video can be found here: http://www.halflife-2.nl/hl2leak/hl2leak.WMV
 
does anyone care to host a multiplayer vid? im not gonna host it myself, im not insane :p

1.368 kb it shows 20 seconds of purple dots (players) running around together in the qazw map. note: it is not fake, and multiplayer has been confirmed.
 
I'm sure many people at Valve could tell, rather quickly, how much of the actual code is there... because if you know how to program you know that code is divided into lots of files for organizational purposes and pulled together by the compiler.

Unless the hacker added or removed some of the source... the guys at Valve could just download the leaked copy and compare the filenames to see what code is there and what is not.

... and if he added a lot of his own fake code it would be nearly impossible for the hacker to have everything look enough like HL2 code to fool the actual developers...

... and that is even less likely because the code really compiles and people have gotten their own maps, textures, displacement maps, and some physics stuff working in the leaked HL2 engine.

So, yes, Gabe is at a position where he can safely say "Yes, this is our code."
 
Originally posted by AlCapucci
have you seen this already:?

English:
After many rumors, its true there is a playable version of Half-Life 2 surfing over the net. Someone on ourmirc channel contacted me and send me over his own made video capture. This isnt the cube map, which is normally playable but a fan-created map named qazw. The video can be found here: http://www.halflife-2.nl/hl2leak/hl2leak.WMV
Click to expand...

Another misconception. It's just a playable version of the engine that's used for Half-Life2. Does it really show any aspect of the game called Half-Life2(do they even have the original console font?)?? The look and feel of a complete game is made mostly by resources and they are luckly lacking.
 
Someone could actually have a mod working by the time HL2 is out...
 
callling out to the air I with tears both hot an wild I grieve for the girl that I loved as a child....they all think I'm crazy but I love you an your dead (Valve) buuut I wanna be with you in the cold grave...I can't sleep warm anymore and I can't quit laughing
 
Why do people keep saying that Valve is dead or dying?

Their first game was one of the most popular PC games and they had profits from Blue Shift, Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, and Opposing Force... and now they are sitting on a game that will make millions and will have many expansions (including TF2, which will probably also make millions... and CS2, which will definately make millions if it is a separate product).
Plus, Gabe probably still has some money from his days at Microsoft.

I doubt Valve is nearing bankruptcy... but they might not be able to totally self-fund their next big game like they did with HL2.
 
Nah I don't want them to go bankrupt they make good games but this is damn funny
 
Originally posted by OCybrManO
I'm sure many people at Valve could tell, rather quickly, how much of the actual code is there... because if you know how to program you know that code is divided into lots of files for organizational purposes and pulled together by the compiler.

Unless the hacker added or removed some of the source... the guys at Valve could just download the leaked copy and compare the filenames to see what code is there and what is not.

... and if he added a lot of his own fake code it would be nearly impossible for the hacker to have everything look enough like HL2 code to fool the actual developers...

... and that is even less likely because the code really compiles and people have gotten their own maps, textures, displacement maps, and some physics stuff working in the leaked HL2 engine.

So, yes, Gabe is at a position where he can safely say "Yes, this is our code."
Click to expand...

4 u>
Yes many people at Valve can say, but not one person(i mean a person that is alone and will stay alone and which hacker is and also GABE is one person so far). And as u said> it is because of the code is divided into lots of files. Can you even imagine a code that is bigger than 30MB? And if they(valve guyz) did find out that some parts of the code are missing, it's only better for them. They don't need to tell us.

4 others>
This stupid paragraph was only ment to explain how difficul the coding is. One person cannot say from having a look at the code which part of it is missing and which not. especially when the code is not yours and u are just trying to understand it and also if valve guyz found out that someting is missing, they will not tell. I didn't know that it will gain such a popularity(cuitaru - lucky :cheese: ).
an Advice: try to read older replays and then write your opinion.

PS:maybe it was my fault, i have used "a single person" instead of "one person". if this is the case, I apologize. my english suxxx.

PS2:HL2 is not the only engine that uses MAPS, TEXTURES, PHYSICS and DISPLACEMENT MAPS. It is just using it in real-time or for gamer's pleasure. But the home-made thing("people are using their own maps") is not DA real Thing from VALVE, kapish to?
 
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