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HA|G_Alucard
Guest
umm, who didnt know that?, i could have read a 250 word report by msnbc and it would have been as bennaficial, but thank you for the in-depth report
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kimo
Guest
Yep. I think so too.
![]SK[](https://valvetime-data.community.forum/avatars/m/1/1393.jpg?1330940179){kind=avatar}
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Superiority
Guest
lol, dang.... 100 something megs of typing.... and to think that a floppy disk holds like a filing cabinet full of documents or something like that..... multiplied by 100.... 0.o........ and privacy is this biggest issue here....... all that crap for nothing.....
Unnamed_Player
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Yeah. Because the greatest 3D programming mind in the known universe really needs to look at other peoples code. It's not even OpenGL, I mean c'mon!
This topic needs to be un-stickyed. It's degenerated to pointless crap.
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NeetGeek
Guest
I think the true tradgedy here is that Gabe trusted everyone in the community and then someone lets him down with a surgical attack on his machine. Just not right....
Hope Gabe can still trust the community after this.
Hope Gabe can still trust the community after this.
Agree NeetGeek.
I don't think he will lose trust in the community tbh. He is already emailing people back (me one of them hehe check the official info from valve thread).
I think he will be peed but at least he is still sending emails back to people. If anything I'm sure they will appreciate the good emails coming back to them from the HL2 community
I don't think he will lose trust in the community tbh. He is already emailing people back (me one of them hehe check the official info from valve thread
).I think he will be peed but at least he is still sending emails back to people. If anything I'm sure they will appreciate the good emails coming back to them from the HL2 community
Carmack isn't by default the best, although well deservedly the most known.
These screenshots are from an up coming engine by a small European delevoper producing an RPG with it, currently because of money shortages it's mostly used for military purposes.
Bear in mind that these have a real time global illumination solution, no pre-rendering.
http://www.vtales.com/game/temp/
These screenshots are from an up coming engine by a small European delevoper producing an RPG with it, currently because of money shortages it's mostly used for military purposes.
Bear in mind that these have a real time global illumination solution, no pre-rendering.
http://www.vtales.com/game/temp/
bastard_loud
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Wow, those screenies look awesome.
I can't imagine how a running demo would look like. Nice find.
edit: They really look like pre-renders dude.
I can't imagine how a running demo would look like. Nice find.
edit: They really look like pre-renders dude.
I can confirm they aren't. The reason they look like pre-renders is the techniques is essentially the same as in Pov-ray/3D Studio etc. except in real time. The lead programmer is a moderator on a popular game dev board, he often talks about how it works in great detail where certain things aren't trade secrets.
Here's a thread where Yann L answers a few questions:
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?whichpage=2&pagesize=20&topic_id=172296
Some more information:
http://www.vtales.co.uk/game/temp/gameconcept.html
"We wanted both: best quality and highest performance. Enormous efforts were done optimising algorithms and code, huge parts of the core 3D system are pure hand written machine code. We are quite happy with the results: The system is able to handle over 30 million faces per scene without swapping, and a theoretical limit of over 4 billion faces if swapping is used."
Also see the statement on the main page too:
"Offering market leading photorealistic realtime simulation and visualization solutions at affordable price."
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NoX357
Guest
Hey i dont know if this is real or not, sent to me by a friend
http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105043181
Could be a hoax, dont know if its already been posted here im just giving my 2 cents...
http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105043181
Could be a hoax, dont know if its already been posted here im just giving my 2 cents...
lifebringer
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.
Unnamed_Player
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Wait...what?
K
KodiaK
Guest
Well that was an interesting read. GJ.
Unnamed_Player
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According to the "interview" done by Half-life Radio GN now says that the whole code base wasn't taken, only a small portion of it. That'll be interesting to all the people who have gotten the "small portion" to compile into something. And since when are millions of lines of code and 170 megs of text considered "small"? :lol:
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Slobax
Guest
yea....gonna report that to Valve now...
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GJaaGular
Guest
me too
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anticonscience
Guest
I am devastated!
I was looking forward to this game so much! I even set aside a whole heap of cash (£500) to blow on upgrading my system, so i could play this game in all it's glory, well it now looks like i'm gonna be spending some of it on alcohol to take my mind of this.
Has there been any word from Valve yet, as to what is going to happen? Presumeably this source would be like all of their work, how does it stand with being re-written?
I hope this game still comes out soon....
On a side note, since this has happened i haven't logged in to steam since....
I was looking forward to this game so much! I even set aside a whole heap of cash (£500) to blow on upgrading my system, so i could play this game in all it's glory, well it now looks like i'm gonna be spending some of it on alcohol to take my mind of this.
Has there been any word from Valve yet, as to what is going to happen? Presumeably this source would be like all of their work, how does it stand with being re-written?
I hope this game still comes out soon....
On a side note, since this has happened i haven't logged in to steam since....
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mightyspawn
Guest
maybe you guys should check this site
not the hole source is taken only a part.
http://www.halflifesource.com/
not the hole source is taken only a part.
http://www.halflifesource.com/
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mightyspawn
Guest
other quote
There is a lot of talk going around in the community about how the Half-Life 2 Source was leaked. Please keep in mind that Gabe Newell has NOT revealed all the facts. We do NOT know what really happened. So please, do NOT believe anything you read until we talk with Gabe Newell face to face.
There is a lot of talk going around in the community about how the Half-Life 2 Source was leaked. Please keep in mind that Gabe Newell has NOT revealed all the facts. We do NOT know what really happened. So please, do NOT believe anything you read until we talk with Gabe Newell face to face.
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gloryofbach
Guest
Refuting Gabe Newell's Assertions
Hi guys! Sorry for another long post!!!!!
Oh dear....I am very tired today as I made the mistake of staying up for the so called "Gabe Newell exclusive interview" which ended up being about as informative as a Britney Spears video. I'm sure sending two squirrels in a cage to Valve would have gleaned more information from them!
I feel only two real revelations came out of the "interview":
1) The positive is that the source code leak/theft seems to not have had the impact on Valve that many (including me) said it would, but it is early days yet for fallout. However it is good to hear Gabe and team and getting on fixing the game for us.
2) Valve are doing what they do for level design (remember the Gamespot Half Life development feature), for tracking down the hackers, putting everything they know on a whiteboard and linking it up into diagrams. The revelation is that they seem to have written down names/addresses of the prime suspects on it.
Addressing point 1, I can only say that it isn't very smart at all to have the names of prime suspects on a whiteboard, when an external interview team is coming in. For all sorts of legal/procedural issues this information should have been hidden away and private. How could Gabe know the interviewers weren't going to take pictures or spill the information on the show...thereby incriminating "potentially" innocent people, and/or hindering the current investigation by alerting those being possibly covertly monitored at the moment (FBI?). All in all, added to the leak/theft, Valve are incredible game designers, but also incredibly naive.
3) MORE IMPORTANTLY Gabe claims only a small portion of the Half Life 2 source code was stolen.
Addressing point 2, this is unequivocally rubbish, but the real issue is more complicated than it seems.
160 megabytes of code is NOT a small part of the Half life 2 code and to say it is is just stupid. I can only believe that Valve have not managed to download the source to check for themselves. This is deliberate MSINFORMATION to minimise the sensationalism surrounding this theft.
From what I have seen of the source on a friend's machine, these are the technical reasons from a programming point of view why what has been stolen will be at least 95% of the source code:
1) WHY THIS IS NOT A SMALL PORTION OF THE SOURCE AS GABE STATED: The size of the code is around where it should be for a project of this size. If this were a "small" part of the source as Gabe stated, the full source would be 600+ megabytes at least, which is frankly impossible. Valve is not NASA with 1000s of programmers. Valve has 10/15 programmers coding with 4/5 years to work on this, and these are optimistic numbers and timeframe.
2) WHAT POINTS TO THIS BEING ALL THE SOURCE: The presence of a large number of situation specific build batch files to compile the source through MSVC++ and the fact that they seem to all compile without problems. When designing a game, there are a large number of code elements to deal with, but usually you will be working for a time on one specific area of the code.
When you are done coding this area, and want to test your changes in game, you must compile your high level source code. The way this is most often done by teams to save time is to have various batch files (a bit like scripts that tell the compiler what to compile and in what order)that execute compiles on different sections of code, and you select the appropriate section to what you have changed in the code. For example if you have made a modification to the Worldcraft code, you would not compile the entire source including Half Life 2 as this would take hours. Instead you use the specific "compile Worldcraft" batch file. The fact that all the batch files work without tinkering suggests this is a full source leak/theft.
3) WHAT POINTS TO THIS BEING ALMOST ALL THE SOURCE:
The fact that it seems there are small function bugs preventing all the compiled features from working fully. From reports, as an example, Worldcraft works after a little bit of source code patching, but is still prone to occasional crashed. The same goes for the physics dll files and the console and various other features.
As a games programmer/designer what does this say to me: The source code that has been stolen is the complete source code for Half Life 2. HOWEVER it is in a late interim state and has not been bug checked for compilation.
This means that the programmers at Valve will not be recompiling the source after every little change they make, instead the team will be working on a revision phase, looking at a number of areas (it seems in this case physics and worldcraft) tweaking elements until sufficient changes have been made to warrant a full compile to test it, upon which the changes are tidied up and checked to minimise the chance of the compiled source crashing.
The leaked source is almost probably a snapshot of the code in the middle of one of the revisions, BEFORE tidying up and checking to make sure the new additions/changes have not broken what worked before (a common occurance in programming). The hacker has no way of knowing if the source tree he is stealing at a particular moment is in a STABLE condition or not, it is pot luck, and this time it wasn't.
SO TO CONCLUDE: This is almost certainly NOT a small portion of the Half Life 2 source. This is almost certainly ALMOST ALL the Half Life 2 Source. HOWEVER the source is taken from the middle of a revision phase and is UNSTABLE AND BUGGY IN CERTAIN AREAS.
Sorry for the long post, please give feedback on this thread if you agree/disagree and thanks for reading!
Hi guys! Sorry for another long post!!!!!
Oh dear....I am very tired today as I made the mistake of staying up for the so called "Gabe Newell exclusive interview" which ended up being about as informative as a Britney Spears video. I'm sure sending two squirrels in a cage to Valve would have gleaned more information from them!
I feel only two real revelations came out of the "interview":
1) The positive is that the source code leak/theft seems to not have had the impact on Valve that many (including me) said it would, but it is early days yet for fallout. However it is good to hear Gabe and team and getting on fixing the game for us.
2) Valve are doing what they do for level design (remember the Gamespot Half Life development feature), for tracking down the hackers, putting everything they know on a whiteboard and linking it up into diagrams. The revelation is that they seem to have written down names/addresses of the prime suspects on it.
Addressing point 1, I can only say that it isn't very smart at all to have the names of prime suspects on a whiteboard, when an external interview team is coming in. For all sorts of legal/procedural issues this information should have been hidden away and private. How could Gabe know the interviewers weren't going to take pictures or spill the information on the show...thereby incriminating "potentially" innocent people, and/or hindering the current investigation by alerting those being possibly covertly monitored at the moment (FBI?). All in all, added to the leak/theft, Valve are incredible game designers, but also incredibly naive.
3) MORE IMPORTANTLY Gabe claims only a small portion of the Half Life 2 source code was stolen.
Addressing point 2, this is unequivocally rubbish, but the real issue is more complicated than it seems.
160 megabytes of code is NOT a small part of the Half life 2 code and to say it is is just stupid. I can only believe that Valve have not managed to download the source to check for themselves. This is deliberate MSINFORMATION to minimise the sensationalism surrounding this theft.
From what I have seen of the source on a friend's machine, these are the technical reasons from a programming point of view why what has been stolen will be at least 95% of the source code:
1) WHY THIS IS NOT A SMALL PORTION OF THE SOURCE AS GABE STATED: The size of the code is around where it should be for a project of this size. If this were a "small" part of the source as Gabe stated, the full source would be 600+ megabytes at least, which is frankly impossible. Valve is not NASA with 1000s of programmers. Valve has 10/15 programmers coding with 4/5 years to work on this, and these are optimistic numbers and timeframe.
2) WHAT POINTS TO THIS BEING ALL THE SOURCE: The presence of a large number of situation specific build batch files to compile the source through MSVC++ and the fact that they seem to all compile without problems. When designing a game, there are a large number of code elements to deal with, but usually you will be working for a time on one specific area of the code.
When you are done coding this area, and want to test your changes in game, you must compile your high level source code. The way this is most often done by teams to save time is to have various batch files (a bit like scripts that tell the compiler what to compile and in what order)that execute compiles on different sections of code, and you select the appropriate section to what you have changed in the code. For example if you have made a modification to the Worldcraft code, you would not compile the entire source including Half Life 2 as this would take hours. Instead you use the specific "compile Worldcraft" batch file. The fact that all the batch files work without tinkering suggests this is a full source leak/theft.
3) WHAT POINTS TO THIS BEING ALMOST ALL THE SOURCE:
The fact that it seems there are small function bugs preventing all the compiled features from working fully. From reports, as an example, Worldcraft works after a little bit of source code patching, but is still prone to occasional crashed. The same goes for the physics dll files and the console and various other features.
As a games programmer/designer what does this say to me: The source code that has been stolen is the complete source code for Half Life 2. HOWEVER it is in a late interim state and has not been bug checked for compilation.
This means that the programmers at Valve will not be recompiling the source after every little change they make, instead the team will be working on a revision phase, looking at a number of areas (it seems in this case physics and worldcraft) tweaking elements until sufficient changes have been made to warrant a full compile to test it, upon which the changes are tidied up and checked to minimise the chance of the compiled source crashing.
The leaked source is almost probably a snapshot of the code in the middle of one of the revisions, BEFORE tidying up and checking to make sure the new additions/changes have not broken what worked before (a common occurance in programming). The hacker has no way of knowing if the source tree he is stealing at a particular moment is in a STABLE condition or not, it is pot luck, and this time it wasn't.
SO TO CONCLUDE: This is almost certainly NOT a small portion of the Half Life 2 source. This is almost certainly ALMOST ALL the Half Life 2 Source. HOWEVER the source is taken from the middle of a revision phase and is UNSTABLE AND BUGGY IN CERTAIN AREAS.
Sorry for the long post, please give feedback on this thread if you agree/disagree and thanks for reading!
nice post glory.
Interesting to . However I dont have enough knowledge on C++ coding to be able to comment on whether or not the source leaked is X% or not.
I have heard that what has been leaked is very buggy and nothing like the HL2 video footage etc we have seen.
I personally think what was leaked was way short of the complete code.
That is just my oppinion I don't really know tbh.
Can't wait for the game all this source talk has now become a little boring for me. Must be the reading all the crap threads.
Not that this is one of them mind
Interesting to
. However I dont have enough knowledge on C++ coding to be able to comment on whether or not the source leaked is X% or not.I have heard that what has been leaked is very buggy and nothing like the HL2 video footage etc we have seen.
I personally think what was leaked was way short of the complete code.
That is just my oppinion I don't really know tbh.
Can't wait for the game all this source talk has now become a little boring for me. Must be the reading all the crap threads.
Not that this is one of them mind
Shakermaker
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Re: THE REAL DEAL with the half Life 2 source
Thanks for educating me and lots of others, gloryofbach. One question though: do you have a website where I can have a look at the games you're developing?
Thanks for educating me and lots of others, gloryofbach. One question though: do you have a website where I can have a look at the games you're developing?
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gloryofbach
Guest
For obvious reasons it is best that I do not identify my project. I am a programmer/ALife specialist for a French developer on an RPG.
I am also a huge Half Life and Gabe Newell fan, hence my interest in what is going on.
I am also a huge Half Life and Gabe Newell fan, hence my interest in what is going on.
Unnamed_Player
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Re: Refuting Gabe Newell's Assertions
Props for the post. I have the same feelings. Interestingly enough (or not) this must have been pretty near the final code as the debug symbols label it as version 1.0 (but with a build number in the 3 thousands).
It sounds to me like Gabe jumped the gun when he publicly admitted that it was the HL2 code that was posted and now they are trying to do some damage control. After all before he said anything everyone was pretty confident that it was just a leaked beta SDK. Afterward everybody and their mother jumped to DL it.
Vivendi released an official PR statement saying that HL2 would be pushed back until at least April of next year (they also said that CS:CZ would ship early this year, so I think their full of it) and the the hacker only got 1/3 of the HL2 source tree. A single game with a source tree of 500 megs!?! Yeah right.
Oh, and as for this not being as stable as what they've been showing off lately: It's highly unlikely that they would do anything during a demo that they knew was buggy. All the demos have been run by Valve staff probably along very predefined routes so they knew it would work as advertised. This is not uncommon. Look at the Doom 3 E3 demo that looked so impressive until people got the Alpha and tried to run it on their own machines.
Props for the post. I have the same feelings. Interestingly enough (or not) this must have been pretty near the final code as the debug symbols label it as version 1.0 (but with a build number in the 3 thousands).
It sounds to me like Gabe jumped the gun when he publicly admitted that it was the HL2 code that was posted and now they are trying to do some damage control. After all before he said anything everyone was pretty confident that it was just a leaked beta SDK. Afterward everybody and their mother jumped to DL it.
Vivendi released an official PR statement saying that HL2 would be pushed back until at least April of next year (they also said that CS:CZ would ship early this year, so I think their full of it) and the the hacker only got 1/3 of the HL2 source tree. A single game with a source tree of 500 megs!?! Yeah right.
Oh, and as for this not being as stable as what they've been showing off lately: It's highly unlikely that they would do anything during a demo that they knew was buggy. All the demos have been run by Valve staff probably along very predefined routes so they knew it would work as advertised. This is not uncommon. Look at the Doom 3 E3 demo that looked so impressive until people got the Alpha and tried to run it on their own machines.
G
gloryofbach
Guest
I'm chuffed I was right about the release date way back in post 1:
"Finally the internal workings of Half-life 2 have been so seriously compromised that I will be amazed if we see it released before 1st Quarter 2004."
From Reuters:
"PARIS, Oct 7 (Reuters) - The theft of part of its source code has delayed until April 2004 the launch of "Half Life II", the hotly anticipated alien-hunting game of Vivendi Universal Games EAUG.PA V.N , a company official said."
"A third of the source code was stolen. It's serious because it forces us to delay the launch of the game by at least four months, that is to April 2004. Just the time to rewrite parts of the game," VU Games president of international operations Christophe Ramboz told daily Les Echos in its Tuesday edition."
"Finally the internal workings of Half-life 2 have been so seriously compromised that I will be amazed if we see it released before 1st Quarter 2004."
From Reuters:
"PARIS, Oct 7 (Reuters) - The theft of part of its source code has delayed until April 2004 the launch of "Half Life II", the hotly anticipated alien-hunting game of Vivendi Universal Games EAUG.PA V.N , a company official said."
"A third of the source code was stolen. It's serious because it forces us to delay the launch of the game by at least four months, that is to April 2004. Just the time to rewrite parts of the game," VU Games president of international operations Christophe Ramboz told daily Les Echos in its Tuesday edition."
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Hanta Swe
Guest
And until Q1 2004, they´ll got lots of time to delay it further, sadly.
M
mightyspawn
Guest
1/3
damn thats allot
these scriptkiddies should be busted by the fbi or even cia and send to quantanoma bay
damn thats allot
these scriptkiddies should be busted by the fbi or even cia and send to quantanoma bay
FriScho
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there is something fishy about all this, suddenly we see new pictures of unseen models on the net. Stuff nobody can fake in such a short time. We will have to wait and see, but there is more stuff leaked than Valve wants us to believe. But no playable game. I think Valve should really push the game out of the door to lower the demand for illegal content.
Unnamed_Player
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They're in a no win situation now. If they release the game with things in their current state you've got cheaters all over the place and a bad initial impression (at least for the MP portion) for reviewers and players who may play the game for awhile then drift away before they can fix it all. If they don't release the game now they have to deal with whatever pirated content might be out there and they'll be shipping head to head with Doom 3.
I was really hoping to be able to play something really cutting edge before the year was out. Damn!
D
Durden0
Guest
Team to track down leak
I haven't seen anyone mention anything about someone forming a team devoted to tracking this down. If this is gonna be done, it's gotta be done right. If anyone knows of any such group or wants to start one and is serious about it, please let me know.
contact me on aim: Jasonghl
email: [email protected]
or on irc:
irc.gamesnet.net #teamccp {CCP}Durden
I haven't seen anyone mention anything about someone forming a team devoted to tracking this down. If this is gonna be done, it's gotta be done right. If anyone knows of any such group or wants to start one and is serious about it, please let me know.
contact me on aim: Jasonghl
email: [email protected]
or on irc:
irc.gamesnet.net #teamccp {CCP}Durden
S
Sunbeam
Guest
Nvidia must be laughing their arses off. By the time this shit is released, their NV50 will be ready..lol.
Unnamed_Player
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And ATI will be rolling out the R500 core by then. Maybe HL2 will be reworked as a DX10 game!
Kinda makes the whole benchmarking thing at the beginning of Sep into a big joke doesn't it.
S
Squonk
Guest
Durden0
I'd willingly support and help with this. Please PM me if you find anything out or start a group. I have no experience of this, although I've spent a lot of admin time trying to keep one step ahead of ***** and the like, and I work from home, so have plenty of PC/surfing time to dedicate to this just cause.
Someone else mentioned paypal donations for Valve. I really don't think they need this, although it's a nice thought. Instead, although I wasn't going to, I am now going to sign up with Steam. It's the best way to show Valve some community support at the moment I think.
Cheers
Squonk
I'd willingly support and help with this. Please PM me if you find anything out or start a group. I have no experience of this, although I've spent a lot of admin time trying to keep one step ahead of ***** and the like, and I work from home, so have plenty of PC/surfing time to dedicate to this just cause.
Someone else mentioned paypal donations for Valve. I really don't think they need this, although it's a nice thought. Instead, although I wasn't going to, I am now going to sign up with Steam. It's the best way to show Valve some community support at the moment I think.
Cheers
Squonk
