The Religion of Peace is on a roll this week!

[Nemesis6]

First to Afghanistan:

KABUL, Afghanistan - Taliban insurgents mounted their most serious attacks in six years of fighting, one a complex attack with multiple suicide bombers on an American military base on Monday night, and another by some 100 insurgents on French forces in a district east of the capital, killing 10 French soldiers and wounding 21 others, military officials said Tuesday.

Three American soldiers were wounded and six members of the Afghan special forces in the attack on the base in the eastern province of Khost, bordering Pakistan, the Afghan military spokesman, Gen. Zaher Azimi, said. The battle lasted all night, 10 suicide bombers were killed or blew themselves up, and the insurgents were repulsed without entering the base, he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/w...ssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin


Next up is a suicide bombing at a police academy in Algeria:

ALGIERS, Algeria - A suicide bomber rammed an explosives-rigged car into a police academy as recruits lined up to register for classes, killing at least 43 people. It was the deadliest attack in recent years in the North African country.

The Interior Ministry said 42 civilians and a police officer were killed in the attack early Tuesday in the town of Les Issers, some 35 miles east of the capital, Algiers, the state-run APS news agency said.

The blast ripped off parts of the policy academy's roof, and damaged its facade. Photos transmitted by APS showed bodies wrapped in yellow plastic bags or blankets lying amid the rubble. Nearby houses and passing cars were also damaged.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080819/ap_on_re_af/algeria_suicide_attack


And finally to Pakistan -

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AFP) - A suicide bomber killed 23 people at a hospital in northwest Pakistan Tuesday, highlighting the militant challenge facing the government after the resignation of Pervez Musharraf.

In other violence in the wake of the US-backed president's decision to bow out on Monday, five soldiers and 13 Taliban militants were killed in a tribal region bordering Afghanistan.

The suicide attack happened as Shiite Muslims gathered to protest over the death of a man in a suspected sectarian attack in the troubled town of Dera Ismail Khan, said North West Frontier Province police chief Malik Naveed Khan.

'There are 23 confirmed dead and up to 20 wounded. We have found the legs of the suspected suicide bomber,' Khan told private Geo television, adding that tensions were high in the area after the blast.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hVQcfNSK8XXgkf2h3NiyDJto2gZQ


That last one really sticks out... bombing a hospital. Wow.

 

[CptStern]

that's like saying Evangelism is responsible for the invasion of Iraq because Bush is an Evangelist


you're not even bothering to disguise your hate of muslims anymore

 

[Nemesis6]

Islam is the motivator for these attacks; their "spiritual ammunition" as a Danish cartoonist once said. I don't think your analogy is that relevant given the context.

Anyway, you're kind of right... just change 'Muslims' to 'Islam'.

 

[CptStern]

Islam is the motivator for these attacks; their "spiritual ammunition" as a Danish cartoonist once said. I don't think your analogy is that relevant given the context.

Anyway, you're kind of right... just change 'Muslims' to 'Islam'.

ya well **** god and christianity then ..because it's the "motivator"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml


christianity is responsible for iraq by your retarded logic

 

[Nemesis6]

Well, did Bush do this for Christianity? Arguably yes or no, because on one hand, he said that God told him to do it, but on the other hand, he might have been pandering to the religious nuts he was talking to when he said that? Perhaps he meant it...? Psychoanalyzing Bush is kind of hard. I'll leave the window open on this debate, though.

Looks like I'll have to explain this to you. Islam is what motivates these guys to blow themselves up; if it's not their actual reason for doing so -- Killing anyone they see as un-Islamic for example, it is the tool that is used to brainwash them into doing it. Either way, it sucks. I don't think it's worth the time to try to debate whether or not religion is dangerous, because it is.

 

[CptStern]

Well, did Bush do this for Christianity? Arguably yes, because he said that God told him to do it. But psychoanalyzing Bush is kind of hard. I'll leave the window open on this debate, though.

because it trumps your point? maybe perhaps? I think so

Looks like I'll have to explain this to you. Islam is what motivates these guys to blow themselves up; if it's not their actual reason for doing so -- Killing anyone they see as un-Islamic for example, it is the tool that is used to brainwash them into doing it. Either way, it sucks.

looks like I'll have to fix it for you:

Christianity is what motivates Bush to blow shit up; if it's not their actual reason for doing so -- Killing anyone they see as un-american for example, it is the tool that is used to brainwash them into doing it. Either way, it sucks.

agreed, that bush/god character sucks

 

[Nemesis6]

You're strawmanning again... So did Bush do it because of Christianity? If I were to argue that he didn't, I'd just have to point to the fact that he didn't mention Christianity being what motivated him, only God. At that point, that he did it because of Christianity is just contextual conjecture -- He is Christian and he said God, therefore he did it for Christianity. You cannot argue either side on this issue based on one comment he made to other religious zealots. If you can get him to say that he did it for Christianity, that would have more merit than this speculation.

Islamic terrorists say that they do it for Islam, they have Imams to motivate and reaffirm their insanity by quoting the Quran, etc, and they actually do what the Quran tells them to do - Fight the disbelievers, fight to Establish the Ummah, promote misogynism, etc...

So far, I haven't seen Bush take any slaves from "neighboring nations", or putting his "sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword." Again, we're left at speculation as to his motives, because he's quite a hypocrite, like any Christian trying to follow the bible. Your argument is that me blaming Islam for the actions of its followers is like blaming Christianity because Bush invoked God as justification for his crimes, but he did not actually directly invoke Christianity or any popular Christian concept, and that's the difference between him and an Islamist - Bush can still hide behind the vagueness of his words, whereas Islamists are quite outspoken about exactly what their motives/purpose for doing these things are.

 

[CptStern]

You're strawmanning again... So did Bush do it because of Christianity? If I were to argue that he didn't, I'd just have to point to the fact that he didn't mention Christianity being what motivated him, only God. At that point, that he did it because of Christianity is just contextual conjecture -- He is Christian and he said God, therefore he did it for Christianity. You cannot argue either side on this issue based on one comment he made to other religious zealots. If you can get him to say that he did it for Christianity, that would have more merit than this speculation.

your logic is flawed ..actually retarded but what the hell I'll use flawed ..even if Bush did it because of christianity how is it christianity at fault for what ONE PERSON DOES? fanatic, layperson, clergy men whatever they are NOT christianity, they do not decree what christianity does as a whole, they only speak for themselves or those like them, not the entire religion




seriously you're like a broken record that plays the same boring song over and over and over and over again


we get it, you dont like muslims

 

[Nemesis6]

your logic is flawed ..actually retarded but what the hell I'll use flawed ..even if Bush did it because of christianity how is it christianity at fault for what ONE PERSON DOES? fanatic, layperson, clergy men whatever they are NOT christianity, they do not decree what christianity does as a whole, they only speak for themselves or those like them, not the entire religion




seriously you're like a broken record that plays the same boring song over and over and over and over again


we get it, you dont like muslims

If you'll just back up, I never made the comparison to begin with, you did, then you assumed I had taken a position on it just because I presented some of the arguments for either side. The bottom line here is: When you have a virtual army of Islamic terrorists spread far and wide between all the Muslim countries and now popping up in our precious little Dhimmi Europe, it is quite likely that they get their motivation from Islam. They learn this stuff in the mosques, a decent percentage of which, as we've found out, are run by hardline, Islamist clerics. They do represent Islam, because the stuff they practice, the stuff they fight for, is there for all to read, and for them to present as they so love to do. The Islamists are an extension of Islam, and their ideology is not in any way foreign or alien compared to all the nice stuff found in the Quran.

You like comparisons, so I'll present the one you always use yourself: Christians bombing abortion clinics. They say that "all life is sacred", and that's why they do it. You can't dismiss them as bad Christians, because they and many other Christians have been taught this as Christian values, and as it turns out, it's not that hard for them to "crack that bible" as the not-so-lovely Shirley Phelps-Roper puts it, and find justification for it. The difference here is, Islam is much less ambiguous than the bible, albeit being just as riddles with contradictions. But besides that, Islam is just as much a political ideology as witnessed by the many political aspects the Quran mentions, and Islamism is the manifestation of that. You can argue that Islam and the political ideology it carries with it are different things, but they're one and the same.

 

[CptStern]

You're strawmanning again... So did Bush do it because of Christianity? If I were to argue that he didn't, I'd just have to point to the fact that he didn't mention Christianity being what motivated him, only God. At that point, that he did it because of Christianity is just contextual conjecture -- He is Christian and he said God, therefore he did it for Christianity. You cannot argue either side on this issue based on one comment he made to other religious zealots. If you can get him to say that he did it for Christianity, that would have more merit than this speculation.

you're splitting hairs and going on a tangent that is completely unrelated to the point ..you said this:

" The Religion of Peace is on a roll this week!"

you are implying that the religion itself is responsible for the attacks you listed ..this is the same flawed logic as blaming christianity/god for the invasion of iraq ..the fact that you dont understand this simple basic concept and keep regurgitating the same unrelated rhetoric proves you have an agenda

Islamic terrorists say that they do it for Islam, they have Imams to motivate and reaffirm their insanity by quoting the Quran, etc, and they actually do what the Quran tells them to do - Fight the disbelievers, fight to Establish the Ummah, promote misogynism, etc...

GOD HATES FAGS, Phelps and clan use god/christianity to fuel their hate ..they'd like to kill all fags (canadians too) therefore by your warped logic Christianity is to blame

So far, I haven't seen Bush take any slaves from "neighboring nations", or putting his "sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword." Again, we're left at speculation as to his motives, because he's quite a hypocrite, like any Christian trying to follow the bible. Your argument is that me blaming Islam for the actions of its followers is like blaming Christianity because Bush invoked God as justification for his crimes, but he did not actually directly invoke Christianity or any popular Christian concept, and that's the difference between him and an Islamist - Bush can still hide behind the vagueness of his words, whereas Islamists are quite outspoken about exactly what their motives/purpose for doing these things are.

and? this is somehow islams fault because all muslims are acting out exactly like these suicide bombers are? fanatics/fringe elements do not make up an entire group ..that's why they're called "fanatics" or "fringe groups" because they step outside of the norm



you still dont get it, even after I've explained it 3 times

 

[Nemesis6]

The religion IS to blame. Islamism comes from Islam, and Islamism is the problem here. Both are to blame because they're one and the same thing. Also, speaking of agendas, every time someone criticizes Islam you start trying to divert the subject to Christianity. We all have agendas.

Islamic terrorists say that they do it for Islam, they have Imams to motivate and reaffirm their insanity by quoting the Quran, etc, and they actually do what the Quran tells them to do - Fight the disbelievers, fight to establish the Ummah, promote misogynism, etc. They couldn't be Islamic terrorists without having an Islamic goal. People say we shouldn't call them "Islamic" terrorists, and for some reason, I'm betting that you agree with that. Anyway, how is this relevant to Islam being evil? Unlike normal terrorists, they fight for Islamic supremacy as preached in the Quran. On the flip side, though, on some level, it is unfair to blame Islam for this; it's simply staying true to itself. Or rather, the believers stay true to it.

It's possible they'd still hate everyone and everything, but just because they use the bible to justify it doesn't mean their faith isn't at fault. They get all their justification from it. Whether they're misinterpreting(Which is pretty hard to do on a lot of things) it or not is irrelevant, the evil is still there, and it IS the bible. That's my argument: Scream all you want that people who stone adulterers, etc, are a minority of Muslims or Christians, etc, but for the most part, when they become fanatics, they draw experience directly from their respective bibles to justify their actions. Anything that tells you to stone, kill, shun, etc is just plain evil no matter how much bullshit contradictions it throws at you on the side, Islam is still evil. Like the other Abrahamic religions. That people do these psychotic things the Quran tells them to do is just indicative of that.

I've never disputed that they're a minority, but as I said: Just because most followers don't do these things doesn't change what their religion fundamentally is or what it has to say. Same with all other religions. The way I see it: You follow the Quran/bible to the letter or you're a hypocrite. Islam by the way supposedly has a special part in the lowest pits of hell for the munafiqs/hypocrites who cherry-pick and don't follow all of the Quran.

I do understand it, and given the context I still have the same conclusion: Either could be true in Bush's case, but yes, I know that's not the point. It might indeed be unfair to blame Christianity for Bush invading Iraq, but that doesn't change the fact that Christianity is ****ed up and does advocate things like this. In Islam's case we're really not talking about a few nutjobs that can distort something into something it's not anymore.

I guess in this case it comes down to whether or not you're willing to hold religion accountable for being what it is, or if you're gonna start fiddling around with "that's not the true religion of X.", ignoring that people are actively fighting for what it contained within. The only way you can justify your position is by invoking that old chestnut "X is what we make of it."

 

[lefty]

It's like some kind of battle of the titans. I fully expect stern to reply at some point saying Nemesis is hardly a titan.

 

[VirusType2]

I have read every word in this thread for some reason.

 

[CptStern]

The religion IS to blame. Islamism comes from Islam, and Islamism is the problem here. Both are to blame because they're one and the same thing.

then all muslims should be be giving people explosive hugs ..hey my muslim (sunni) secretary has s'ploded herself 3 times

Also, speaking of agendas, every time someone criticizes Islam you start trying to divert the subject to Christianity. We all have agendas.

the problem as I see it is that you just dont understand what an analogy is ..I know english isnt your first language but surely there's an equivilent in whatever gobbly-gook language you speak

Islamic terrorists say that they do it for Islam, they have Imams to motivate and reaffirm their insanity by quoting the Quran, etc, and they actually do what the Quran tells them to do - Fight the disbelievers, fight to establish the Ummah, promote misogynism, etc. They couldn't be Islamic terrorists without having an Islamic goal. People say we shouldn't call them "Islamic" terrorists, and for some reason, I'm betting that you agree with that. Anyway, how is this relevant to Islam being evil? Unlike normal terrorists, they fight for Islamic supremacy as preached in the Quran. On the flip side, though, on some level, it is unfair to blame Islam for this; it's simply staying true to itself. Or rather, the believers stay true to it.

you're babbling incoherently ..anyways abortion bombers say god it was god's will, hell even bush blames god ..so does that mean christianity is at fault? remember I'm using christianity as an analogy and you cant spell analogy without spelling anal

It's possible they'd still hate everyone and everything, but just because they use the bible to justify it doesn't mean their faith isn't at fault.

so you're saying christianity is to blame for abortion clinic bombers? not the individuals who blow them up

They get all their justification from it. Whether they're misinterpreting(Which is pretty hard to do on a lot of things) it or not is irrelevant, the evil is still there, and it IS the bible. That's my argument: Scream all you want that people who stone adulterers, etc, are a minority of Muslims or Christians, etc, but for the most part, when they become fanatics, they draw experience directly from their respective bibles to justify their actions. Anything that tells you to stone, kill, shun, etc is just plain evil no matter how much bullshit contradictions it throws at you on the side, Islam is still evil. Like the other Abrahamic religions. That people do these psychotic things the Quran tells them to do is just indicative of that.

we're not debating whether it's evil or not, you're blaming islam and christainity for things done in it's name ..so when 2 airplanes full of civilians slammed into the side of a building the terrar'sts were justified because americans allowed atrocities to happen in their name. so when bush is eventually tried in the Hague, there'll be a long line of 300,000,000 americans waiting to tried as well ..it was done in their name after all

I've never disputed that they're a minority, but as I said: Just because most followers don't do these things doesn't change what their religion fundamentally is or what it has to say. Same with all other religions. The way I see it: You follow the Quran/bible to the letter or you're a hypocrite. Islam by the way supposedly has a special part in the lowest pits of hell for the munafiqs/hypocrites who cherry-pick and don't follow all of the Quran.

again you're blaming what is essentially a set of codes, stories, rules etc written hundreds of years ago for the recent suicide bombs that killed innocents..how can an inanimate object be responsible for murder?

I do understand it, and given the context I still have the same conclusion: Either could be true in Bush's case, but yes, I know that's not the point. It might indeed be unfair to blame Christianity for Bush invading Iraq, but that doesn't change the fact that Christianity is ****ed up and does advocate things like this. In Islam's case we're really not talking about a few nutjobs that can distort something into something it's not anymore.

I guess in this case it comes down to whether or not you're willing to hold religion accountable for being what it is, or if you're gonna start fiddling around with "that's not the true religion of X.", ignoring that people are actively fighting for what it contained within. The only way you can justify your position is by invoking that old chestnut "X is what we make of it."

you're back peddling and if what you say holds true then christianity is to blame for the invasion of iraq ...after all god told him to do it. you cant cherry pick which group holds responsibility and which doesnt based on nothing more than personal opinion

just checking

 

[Vegeta897]

I know english isnt your first language but surely there's an equivilent in whatever gobbly-gook language you speak

lol'd

 

[Krynn72]

lol gobbly

 

[Gray Fox]

I once had a Muslim friend.
But Pi ate him.

 

[PvtRyan]

I like it when Stern disagrees with Nemesis just to disagree with him, even though most of Stern's points are inane.

 

[Escaep]

Seriously You're Like A Broken Record That Plays The Same Boring Song Over And Over And Over And Over Again

The irony of this sentence is too much to bear. :smoking:

 

[CptStern]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

see it would be ironic if all I ever talked about was american politics but a quick glance at my posts contradicts that notion

 

[Vegeta897]

the problem as I see it is that you just dont understand what an analogy is

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

Stern is always quick to claim that other people do not understand the definition of certain words whenever other people use the word in an attack against him.

inb4:
Vegeta is always quick to scrutinize Stern's posts.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Vegeta is always quick to be a fag.

 

[lefty]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

Inconthievable!

 

[mastag]

I've trolled a lot of youtube videos without getting any notice, but after I trolled one Islam video, I got shitloads of hatemail within like 5 hours from pissed off Muslims.

One called me a "Dicky Stupid Ass".

Allah would be pleased.

 

[15357]

Whenever Stern attacks me I am rendered unable to retaliate due to either:

1) I am completely overwhelmed, and unable to come up with anything logical (Which doesn't really matter, though)

2) The audacity of his anti-freedom pro-evil stance astounds me to no end




But I know I'm right.


'Cause he's left, and therfore wrong.

 

[CptStern]

Vegeta is always quick to be a fag.

I cant see vegeta's post (cuz I have him on ignore) so I'll just assume he's coming out of the closet and decided to announce it here (a little odd in the politics section but meh)

vegeta: kudos to you for having the courage to be honest about your sexual orientation. from now on I'll make a concerted effort to not call you a faggit out of respect for your lifestyle


dear numbers:

1. you cant come up with anything because there's only so far you can defend the rediculous before it all comes crashing down like a deck of cards
2. I approve of the pro-evil description but not the anti-freedom one. the more freedom you have the closer to chaos you get. being evil you'd think I'd want chaos because the opposite: order, is always seen as good ...which is odd because countries like China , North/South Korea have order up the wazoo and they're definately evil

 

[Absinthe]

So, those durned Muslims, eh?

 

[No Limit]

Holy shit, did stern actually shut nemesis up? I love you stern (and I don't mean that in a gay vegeta way).

 

[TerminatorT850]

I don't post much but I'm a regular visitor. I'm Muslim & from Pakistan.

Add to the original post: 70 more people killed in twin suicide bombs in Wah Cantt (supposedly one of the MOST SECURE areas due to military factory).

Sigh...Honestly, I don't blame the original poster or the title of the thread. If I were in your place, I'd said the SAME about Muslims. Yes, we SAY that "Islam is a religion of peace" but we don't IMPLEMENT any kind of peace. ACTIONS speak louder than WORDS. The actions (suicide bombings, Taliban, Al Qaeda) are quite lounder than mere words on forums, newspapers, media and demos.

Hell..I'm so scared to even return to my country Pakistan for a visit. Honestly, we, the common people, are helpless. I as a Pakistani would LOVE Barack Obama to hunt down Al Qaeda and Taliban from OUR homeland (just try not to kill civilians like Iraq).

I won't try to CONVINCE you guys that "Islam = peace", blah blah because the damage is beyoooooond repair.

Just because of these bastards, it's kinda hard for people like me (I'm a BSc in Electrical Engineering) to pursue further education in a graduate school in the West.

Bottomline: You people are NOT to be blamed. Terrorists will burn in hell for killing innocent people.

 

[jverne]

I don't post much but I'm a regular visitor. I'm Muslim & from Pakistan.

Add to the original post: 70 more people killed in twin suicide bombs in Wah Cantt (supposedly one of the MOST SECURE areas due to military factory).

Sigh...Honestly, I don't blame the original poster or the title of the thread. If I were in your place, I'd said the SAME about Muslims. Yes, we SAY that "Islam is a religion of peace" but we don't IMPLEMENT any kind of peace. ACTIONS speak louder than WORDS. The actions (suicide bombings, Taliban, Al Qaeda) are quite lounder than mere words on forums, newspapers, media and demos.

Hell..I'm so scared to even return to my country Pakistan for a visit. Honestly, we, the common people, are helpless. I as a Pakistani would LOVE Barack Obama to hunt down Al Qaeda and Taliban from OUR homeland (just try not to kill civilians like Iraq).

I won't try to CONVINCE you guys that "Islam = peace", blah blah because the damage is beyoooooond repair.

Just because of these bastards, it's kinda hard for people like me (I'm a BSc in Electrical Engineering) to pursue further education in a graduate school in the West.

Bottomline: You people are NOT to be blamed. Terrorists will burn in hell for killing innocent people.

that was actually very reasonable and humble of you. you don't just blindly defend your religion like most muslims here did.





not that i agree with your life choice to be a muslim, but that's not relevant here.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Refreshingly commendably? Commendably refreshing?

 

[Absinthe]

Now let's argue with him any way!

 

[Vegeta897]

Graahh arguments! Quote wars! Snarl! Hate! Fury!

 

[unozero]

I don't post much but I'm a regular visitor. I'm Muslim & from Pakistan.

Add to the original post: 70 more people killed in twin suicide bombs in Wah Cantt (supposedly one of the MOST SECURE areas due to military factory).

Sigh...Honestly, I don't blame the original poster or the title of the thread. If I were in your place, I'd said the SAME about Muslims. Yes, we SAY that "Islam is a religion of peace" but we don't IMPLEMENT any kind of peace. ACTIONS speak louder than WORDS. The actions (suicide bombings, Taliban, Al Qaeda) are quite lounder than mere words on forums, newspapers, media and demos.

Hell..I'm so scared to even return to my country Pakistan for a visit. Honestly, we, the common people, are helpless. I as a Pakistani would LOVE Barack Obama to hunt down Al Qaeda and Taliban from OUR homeland (just try not to kill civilians like Iraq).

I won't try to CONVINCE you guys that "Islam = peace", blah blah because the damage is beyoooooond repair.

Just because of these bastards, it's kinda hard for people like me (I'm a BSc in Electrical Engineering) to pursue further education in a graduate school in the West.

Bottomline: You people are NOT to be blamed. Terrorists will burn in hell for killing innocent people.

good post

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Good find, Nemisis. I wonder why they went after the French?

Wouldn't it have garnered them more notoriety if they attacked a US Embassy or Base or mounted two chain attacks?

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

nimisis hates darkies lolol

 

[Geogaddi]

That last one really sticks out... bombing a hospital. Wow.

If I were to ask you for sex, would your answer be the same as your answer to this question?

 

[Beerdude26]

If I were to ask you for sex, would your answer be the same as your answer to this question?

This is why I love you.

 

[soulslicer]

Seems to me, that all Muslim Nations are going down the drain. The African Region was long dead, the Middle Eastern regions are ruled with an iron grip with all those mullahs giving their fatwa's. Indonesia, I don't even need to say. India, is getting more racked with suicide bombings and fightings in the north, along with constant clashes between the hindu's and muslims. Malaysia's becoming more and more Islam oriented, even in politics.