The RIAA is savage

Farrowlesparrow said:
And I'm sure that when he said it, the livelyhoods of everyone who worked on the movie didn't really appear in his mind.
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Lets be honest, they got paid and are already working on their next movie. Many of the workers would probably be freelance anyway, like the graphic designers/model makers/3d effects studios etc etc.
 
StardogChampion said:
Lets be honest, they got paid and are already working on their next movie. Many of the workers would probably be freelance anyway, like the graphic designers/model makers/3d effects studios etc etc.
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I really hope your view isn't shared by too many people, because its some of the most short term thinking I've come across.

(Sadly, I think many people do think like that)
 
StardogChampion said:
Lets be honest, they got paid and are already working on their next movie. Many of the workers would probably be freelance anyway, like the graphic designers/model makers/3d effects studios etc etc.
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how do you think freelancers are paid? All upfront? nope, maybe some upfront to cover costs, the rest comes at the end.

A film's value is calculated long before its even started on, so the worse the download generation gets, the less the projected profits will be, meaning the less the little people, ie: those who do the hard work, will get.

So downloading is gonna effect people, whichever way you look at it.
 
Elf, the only problem I have is the way in which they do it. Im all for cracking down on piracy, but there was lots of other useful software, thats LEGAL, on that site.
 
I agree it's wrong and everything... but I still will probably do it. And actually, the artists mostly get there money by other means. Ads, concerts, clothing lines, etc. Thats where they get thier pay.

The big guys at the studios are the ones who take a big chunck of change from the actual sales of records. I don't feel to bad for them.

I'm not defending piracy, but chances are even you guys will eventually crack and download that nice $200 program that you can't fit into you're buget at the moment. It's just too easy.
 
gh0st said:
Elf, the only problem I have is the way in which they do it. Im all for cracking down on piracy, but there was lots of other useful software, thats LEGAL, on that site.
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Well first of all, people have been trying to stop piracy for a long time, but the downloaders have just waved their tactics back in law's face.

Secondly, if a man gives to charity, it doesn't mean he should be let off for murder. Just because those sites had some legal stuff on them, doesn't somehow mean they shouldn't be shut down. You might say they could have at least been given a chance, but they knew from the start that what they were doing was illegal. Not only that, but they should also have known what was coming for them.


Maybe I don't like what the RIAA is doing, but frankly its simply the reaction to whats been going on since the dawn of time. People taking what isn't theirs.
 
gh0st said:
Elf, the only problem I have is the way in which they do it. Im all for cracking down on piracy, but there was lots of other useful software, thats LEGAL, on that site.
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They should _just_ have the legal stuff then, the RIAA closes the entire site to make a point, closing just a section of it wont get noticed and this thread wouldn't have been made and we'd not be talking about it. The site owners can always go off and make the site again with just legal stuff and the RIAA can't touch them then atall.
 
The Dark Elf said:
They should _just_ have the legal stuff then, the RIAA closes the entire site to make a point, closing just a section of it wont get noticed and this thread wouldn't have been made and we'd not be talking about it. The site owners can always go off and make the site again with just legal stuff and the RIAA can't touch them then atall.
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Never said it was wrong of them, I Just dont like it because it inconveniences me :) I think its tight that they use the methods they do, but I dont like that it affects legal users as well.
 
gh0st said:
Never said it was wrong of them, I Just dont like it because it inconveniences me :) I think its tight that they use the methods they do, but I dont like that it affects legal users as well.
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Yeah but thats really the fault of pirates :D
 
If there was a valid alternative to p2p I'm sure the majority of people would use it.

If you consider digital content providing as a marketplace, you'll find that there is almost no offer, but an enormous amount of demand. How come I can't download a movie legaly? Tell me, please, I'd like to know. There's no pay per view where I live.

Prices should be a lot cheaper too. Not like itune and whatever, charging 1€ for a song, pfff, what do you expect. There should be a safe payment system, visa isn't built for this.
Times are changing. If the concerned industries don't act accordingly, they can only blame themselves for their own demise. Can you really blame a kid for downloading? Parents have to watch over their children maybe? Most parents know just as much about "the internets" as the industries who file all those lawsuits nowadays.
And I'll keep saying it: What happened to the horse business when trains and cars were invented? Of course, the HIAA(horse industry association of America) wasn't happy, but did they change cars into panels saying "driving cars is bad - support the horse industry"? And what we're seeing today is not even such a big problem, they could easily turn it into a profit situation. Why won't they? Why is there no offer when there is such a huge demand? I don't get it.
 
I mostly use torrents to download old comics that are hard to get, and if you do get your hands on them you most likely won't read em'
 
What you said about the horses and cars really doesn't apply. You're using an analogy that doesn't fit the situation.

Demand, want are two very important words in what you just said. People are demanding and wanting an awful lot these days, and because they don't get everything they asked for as soon as they want it, they get mad. There are alternatives to illegal downloading...most of them involve going out and physically buying what it is you want. You can also order films and music off the internet and have it arrive in a couple of days. There is deffinately a trend towards music downloading in the music industry, but it will take time. Remember that saying patience is a virtue. Well its certainly lacking a lot these days, and more people should learn to be patient. You can't simply expect to get everything you want, and get it how you want as soon as you want. Things take time to happen, people need time to change otherwise all you will get is problems.
 
Farrowlesparrow said:
What you said about the horses and cars really doesn't apply. You're using an analogy that doesn't fit the situation.
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I don't know, I was thinking about how cars and trains were inventions that endangered the horse business - similar to how the internet is an invention that endangers the distibution system of copyrighted works.

Demand, want are two very important words in what you just said. People are demanding and wanting an awful lot these days, and because they don't get everything they asked for as soon as they want it, they get mad. There are alternatives to illegal downloading...most of them involve going out and physically buying what it is you want. You can also order films and music off the internet and have it arrive in a couple of days. There is deffinately a trend towards music downloading in the music industry, but it will take time. Remember that saying patience is a virtue. Well its certainly lacking a lot these days, and more people should learn to be patient. You can't simply expect to get everything you want, and get it how you want as soon as you want. Things take time to happen, people need time to change otherwise all you will get is problems.
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I disagree completely.

-On the offer side of things: I think it's very clear that if you -as a business- just sit back, relax, and wait for the world to go past you, you won't make money. Healthy business methods include reacting to the market. It's more important in some businesses than in others. But in this case, the involved industries should have acted a long time ago.

-On the demand side of things: having needs is what economy is based on. This is chapter 101 of "the economics". If there is a need for digital content, then people will get things moving to get it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. And having to wait more than a day to see a movie you ordered or having to go outside to rent it is exactly why there is a need. It's why p2p is so popular. And nobody is asking for something that is technically not possible or moraly twisted.
(note:You should read up on alcohol prohibition laws and how they failed miserably)
 
Farrowlesparrow said:
Well first of all, people have been trying to stop piracy for a long time, but the downloaders have just waved their tactics back in law's face.

Secondly, if a man gives to charity, it doesn't mean he should be let off for murder. Just because those sites had some legal stuff on them, doesn't somehow mean they shouldn't be shut down. You might say they could have at least been given a chance, but they knew from the start that what they were doing was illegal. Not only that, but they should also have known what was coming for them.


Maybe I don't like what the RIAA is doing, but frankly its simply the reaction to whats been going on since the dawn of time. People taking what isn't theirs.
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You talk as if you've never download an mp3 in your life. Somehow I doubt that.
 
StardogChampion said:
You talk as if you've never download an mp3 in your life. Somehow I doubt that.
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I've downloaded about 10 total illegal mp3s in my life. They're gone, deleted years ago.
 
I felt compelled to bring this article to the table, I found it to be a MUST READ to anyone even remotely interested in copyrights, digital rights, internet business models, music, movies, books, or anything similar, like giant man-eating robots with lasers instead of kneecaps or savage man-eating beercans. The article is not boring and I guarantee you'll be glad you read it. I guarantee it, you hear! Now go on and read it:

http://gokkast.dnsalias.net/Waarom-geen-DRM.htm

This talk was originally given to Microsoft's Research Group
and other interested parties from within the company at their
Redmond offices on June 17, 2004.

edit: you can pick another language at the end of the article if you prefer.
 
Element Alpha said:
I felt compelled to bring this article to the table, I found it to be a MUST READ to anyone even remotely interested in copyrights, digital rights, internet business models, music, movies, books, or anything similar, like giant man-eating robots with lasers instead of kneecaps or savage man-eating beercans. The article is not boring and I guarantee you'll be glad you read it. I guarantee it, you hear! Now go on and read it:

http://gokkast.dnsalias.net/Waarom-geen-DRM.htm

This talk was originally given to Microsoft's Research Group
and other interested parties from within the company at their
Redmond offices on June 17, 2004.

edit: you can pick another language at the end of the article if you prefer.
Click to expand...
Thats a very long read, can you sum things up in a post? :)
 
It's a transcript of a conference about DRM given by a guy from eff.com talking to microsoft people at their company about digital rights, encryption and copyrights in a very clear, interesting and focused manner. He uses witty humor and simple logic to explain the past and present of copyright issues and what problems need attention while demonstrating that the actual course of things is detrimental to art, business and consumers. His arguments are rock solid. He talks a lot about historical copyright nightmares. He also makes a few anecdotes referring to encryption and its basic principles. It's mainly about bringing a wind of change.

He touches a lot of things so it's very difficult for me to bring you a short sum up of it all.

I maintain that you should read it in it's entirety (once you start reading it'll be too hard to stop anyway). It won't be a waste of time.
 
Element Alpha said:
It's a transcript of a conference about DRM given by a guy from eff.com talking to microsoft people at their company about digital rights, encryption and copyrights in a very clear, interesting and focused manner. He uses witty humor and simple logic to explain the past and present of copyright issues and what problems need attention while demonstrating that the actual course of things is detrimental to art, business and consumers. His arguments are rock solid. He talks a lot about historical copyright nightmares. He also makes a few anecdotes referring to encryption and its basic principles. It's mainly about bringing a wind of change.

He touches a lot of things so it's very difficult for me to bring you a short sum up of it all.

I maintain that you should read it in it's entirety (once you start reading it'll be too hard to stop anyway). It won't be a waste of time.
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I'll just have to take your word for it then, i don't have the time heh sorry. Piracy is wrong, downloading things that should be paid for is wrong, nice n simple.
 
thats not all they do, they also use these laws to squash new innovations. Such as Re-tv, and if they had their way in the 70's(?) there would be no vcr's.
 
Kommie said:
thats not all they do, they also use these laws to squash new innovations. Such as Re-tv, and if they had their way in the 70's(?) there would be no vcr's.
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Only because people abuse these things, and that will always happen until there's some horrible central setup like renting software and have to be always connected to a hub serving every end user.. now THAT would royally suck, no privicy whatsoever then, thanks to the pirates.
 
Read the article. You'll be surprised. Take the time.

edit: I just had to say this: no privacy because of pirates isn't any worse than having to cope with all the different copyright protections, not being able to do what you want with your purchases as well as not being able to take advantage of abilities new technologies currently offer as well as in the future, all this while rogue solutions offer exactly these things that formal solutions deny their customers. All this while at the same time the current system makes everyone who desires to copy his purchased material a potential criminal.

also a nice flash movie:
http://packetstorm.linuxsecurity.com/peer2peer/mp3caper.swf
(just play the file with internet explorer if you don't know what to do with this link. Original location is http://www.eff.org/share/mp3caper.php#nextScene but it's down at the moment)

It's very easy to look the other way and say "piracy is wrong - end of the line". The hard part is to get that purchased music onto your walkman.
 
The number of people buying cd's outweighs the number of people downloading music. People have been buying ridiculously priced cd's for years and years. Now more people are getting to grips with computers, the music industry feels they are losing out because without the access, consumers will have no other choice but to go pay £15 for the latest releases.

Mp3's are not new. I saw and downloaded my first one on dalnet when I was like 12. That was 11 years ago. Its only since Napster made it idiot proof that it has gone mainstream and widespread.

This will never be stopped. Think of all the time and money that goes towards legal fees to shut these sites down, only for another ten to take it's place. Where does all that money come from? Is it really worth pursuing people again and again who are just going to devise new ways to do it and not buy the cd's in the first place anyway?

The way I see filesharing going is back to where it came from, where you will need to know more than how to double click an executable file and use a search engine.
 
The idea that piracy is damaging the industry is based on very shakey ground, too. From what I remember hearing, the BPI (British equivalent of RIAA) just enjoyed it's best year for album sales in a long time...all while people are getting to grips with Torrent files and downloading in as large quantities as ever.

There's also the matter of the RIAA using this campaign of theirs to galvanise their monopoly over the industry. Small independent labels and obscure bands are benefited more by file-sharing than major label bands, since it acts as free promotion. I know practically all the bands I am interested in, I learned of through the Internet. By attacking this means of promotion the RIAA is simultaneously ensuring that niche tastes are further alienated, and that the only music people will buy is the music they see propagandised everywhere - worthless tripe rammed down our throats by music channels, radio stations, advertised on billboards etc. Of all the bands I am into, I think there's only one on an RIAA-associated label. Yet the RIAA are attacking *my* means of exploring music, when I've done nothing to them.

Downloading, theft? Don't make me laugh....not when you can pay £15 for a CD nowadays. Do you know how much of that goes to the artist? The RIAA are not a benevolent organisation who are just "fighting for the interests of artists" - since artists can't even join the RIAA, only labels can - and as such, you can't argue their case on moral grounds.
 
The Dark Elf said:
Only because people abuse these things, and that will always happen until there's some horrible central setup like renting software and have to be always connected to a hub serving every end user.. now THAT would royally suck, no privicy whatsoever then, thanks to the pirates.
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Re-tv was shut down because it allowed users to skip commercials

The sony betamax was challenged because it took away movie sales.

And it also provides a medium for smaller companies and unsigned artists to get their products out effectively (For instance seveal independent artists, had tremendous leaps in their music sales because of file sharing) undercutting big business profits.

Businesses use copyright laws and such to do these kind of things, not necessarily because of piracy, piracy is simply the "easy target"
 
Kommie said:
Re-tv was shut down because it allowed users to skip commercials

The sony betamax was challenged because it took away movie sales.

And it also provides a medium for smaller companies and unsigned artists to get their products out effectively (For instance seveal independent artists, had tremendous leaps in their music sales because of file sharing) undercutting big business profits.

Businesses use copyright laws and such to do these kind of things, not necessarily because of piracy, piracy is simply the "easy target"
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piracy is a worthwhile target, they can't just sit back and ignore it or it just gets worse. Discreet ignored it for too long, now 3DS Max is one of the most pirated apps, with a huge price to compensate for it.
 
Apple, Sony Sued Over European Music Stores

"A French consumer organization has launched legal action against Sony and Apple, claiming that the two companies are limiting user choice by using proprietary digital rights management software systems for music downloads."

"The group claimed that, because the DRM (Digital Rights Management) systems used by both Apple and Sony restrict songs sold on their download services to being played back on their own portable players, both were guilty of anticompetitive behaviour."

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1765290,00.asp
 
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