the U.S. babysitting Iraqis

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john121

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I had a long chat with a friend who had gone to Iraq helping train the Iraqi people, and he had some things that the "faithful" news crews *cough* fox, CNN, Newsweek *cough* conveniently edit out. Firstly, most of the Iraqis run when the fighting actually starts, forgetting to actually protect their country. Secondly, they don't even aim, they just shoot wildly, killing friendlies (mostly their own poeple on our side and even some of our beloved troops). Why are we still over there anyhow, save for oil? Why don't we just give them the guns, tell them to fight for what's theirs and get our deal of oil we were probably promised? Why fight a battle that obviously we have no business being in? :hmph:
 
my country (excuse me, the leader of my country and his cabinet) may have royally screwed up on the WMP fiasco, i'll admit that, but for our soldiers to die because of the ignorance and stupidness of another country and it's inhabitants is just plain wrong.
 
john121 said:
my country (excuse me, the leader of my country and his cabinet) may have royally screwed up on the WMP fiasco, i'll admit that, but for our soldiers to die because of the ignorance and stupidness of another country and it's inhabitants is just plain wrong.
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Hey, If someone invaded my country for its oil, then made me fight to protect the invaders, I would probably run too.
 
john121 said:
my country (excuse me, the leader of my country and his cabinet) may have royally screwed up on the WMP fiasco, .
Click to expand...

WMP? weapons of mass production?

john121 said:
i'll admit that, but for our soldiers to die because of the ignorance and stupidness of another country and it's inhabitants is just plain wrong
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excuse me? it's ignorance and stupidity that got them there in the first place. Did you know that at the time of the invasion 70% of americans believed saddam was behind 9/11? ...what do those 7 in 10 americans have to say for themselves now?
 
they don't say anything stern, they just slap a support the troops ribbon on their SUV and forget about the whole thing...

And funny that, because conservatives are about CONSERVATION, SUV's do not conserve gas, nor do they conserve the enviroment...

If they truly supported the troops they would be driving a hybrid car.

And a "culture of life" is achieved through bombs.

GRRRR I can't take the hypocrisy anymore, its pathetic.
 
We're good at babysitting countries. :D
 
actually I think it's more of a "babysitter takes a smoke break while babies tear up the place, led by a cadre of evil babies on the babysitter's payroll" ....pretty freakin bizarre daycare you got going there ;)


heh innervison, the thought of a conservative texas oil baron driving around in a smart car is pretty funny ..but not hah hah funny ;)
 
john121 said:
royally screwed up on the WMP fiasco
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Too right, Bush said that Iraqis used nothing but WMP for playing audio files. All the UN found was winamp. Liars.
 
CptStern said:
actually I think it's more of a "babysitter takes a smoke break while babies tear up the place, led by a cadre of evil babies on the babysitter's payroll" ....pretty freakin bizarre daycare you got going there ;)
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Yea well someone has to do the job and **** it up....why not it be us? :LOL:
 
makes me wonder how many MORE years we will be dumping money and bodies into Iraq...
 
Awhile. We need to reconstruct Babylon and establish it as a base of operations for that region. A suitable location, I believe.
 
GiaOmerta said:
Awhile. We need to reconstruct Babylon and establish it as a base of operations for that region. A suitable location, I believe.
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we will need to dispatch ryan seacrest and MTV Saudi Israelia to take full control of the region :LOL:
 
john121 said:
my country (excuse me, the leader of my country and his cabinet) may have royally screwed up on the WMP fiasco, i'll admit that, but for our soldiers to die because of the ignorance and stupidness of another country and it's inhabitants is just plain wrong.
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Sure, leave congress' blame out of it. John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and Ted kennedy all voted for it. Why leave them out?
 
Bodacious said:
Sure, leave congress' blame out of it. John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and Ted kennedy all voted for it. Why leave them out?
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because they were told that Iraq had WMDs pointed at us by the president. When the president lies about WMD's people have to listen. they were simply voting to stop a threat that wasnt there, but one that if there (as bush said it was) must be stopped. If bush said there were no WMDs they would not have voted for it.
 
Iraq was screwed the moment bush told that it had WMDs. After that it was inevitable that there would be an attack. After they found no weapons bush blamed the CIA for poor intelegence (I hate my spelling :( ) So it becomes very hard to see who started it all. But what's done is done..and what was done became a big mess.
 
Murray_H said:
Too right, Bush said that Iraqis used nothing but WMP for playing audio files. All the UN found was winamp. Liars.
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this made my day!!! :LOL:
 
dream431ca said:
I like your links that link to stories about it..but this is just the media..not a very credible source of "reliable" information...it's mostly gossip, at least that's what I see.
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gossip? the media? did you read the link? it's from the top anti-terrorist advisor at the time, richard clarke:


"After the president returned to the White House on Sept. 11, he and his top advisers, including Clarke, began holding meetings about how to respond and retaliate. As Clarke writes in his book, he expected the administration to focus its military response on Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. He says he was surprised that the talk quickly turned to Iraq.

"Rumsfeld was saying that we needed to bomb Iraq," Clarke said to Stahl. "And we all said ... no, no. Al-Qaeda is in Afghanistan. We need to bomb Afghanistan. And Rumsfeld said there aren't any good targets in Afghanistan. And there are lots of good targets in Iraq. I said, 'Well, there are lots of good targets in lots of places, but Iraq had nothing to do with it.

"Initially, I thought when he said, 'There aren't enough targets in-- in Afghanistan,' I thought he was joking.

"I think they wanted to believe that there was a connection, but the CIA was sitting there, the FBI was sitting there, I was sitting there saying we've looked at this issue for years. For years we've looked and there's just no connection."

Clarke says he and CIA Director George Tenet told that to Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, and Attorney General John Ashcroft.

Clarke then tells Stahl of being pressured by Mr. Bush.

"The president dragged me into a room with a couple of other people, shut the door, and said, 'I want you to find whether Iraq did this.' Now he never said, 'Make it up.' But the entire conversation left me in absolutely no doubt that George Bush wanted me to come back with a report that said Iraq did this.

"I said, 'Mr. President. We've done this before. We have been looking at this. We looked at it with an open mind. There's no connection.'

"He came back at me and said, "Iraq! Saddam! Find out if there's a connection.' And in a very intimidating way. I mean that we should come back with that answer. We wrote a report."

Clarke continued, "It was a serious look. We got together all the FBI experts, all the CIA experts. We wrote the report. We sent the report out to CIA and found FBI and said, 'Will you sign this report?' They all cleared the report. And we sent it up to the president and it got bounced by the National Security Advisor or Deputy. It got bounced and sent back saying, 'Wrong answer. ... Do it again.'
 
CptStern said:
gossip? the media? did you read the link? it's from the top anti-terrorist advisor at the time, richard clarke:


"After the president returned to the White House on Sept. 11, he and his top advisers, including Clarke, began holding meetings about how to respond and retaliate. As Clarke writes in his book, he expected the administration to focus its military response on Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. He says he was surprised that the talk quickly turned to Iraq.

"Rumsfeld was saying that we needed to bomb Iraq," Clarke said to Stahl. "And we all said ... no, no. Al-Qaeda is in Afghanistan. We need to bomb Afghanistan. And Rumsfeld said there aren't any good targets in Afghanistan. And there are lots of good targets in Iraq. I said, 'Well, there are lots of good targets in lots of places, but Iraq had nothing to do with it.

"Initially, I thought when he said, 'There aren't enough targets in-- in Afghanistan,' I thought he was joking.

"I think they wanted to believe that there was a connection, but the CIA was sitting there, the FBI was sitting there, I was sitting there saying we've looked at this issue for years. For years we've looked and there's just no connection."

Clarke says he and CIA Director George Tenet told that to Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, and Attorney General John Ashcroft.

Clarke then tells Stahl of being pressured by Mr. Bush.

"The president dragged me into a room with a couple of other people, shut the door, and said, 'I want you to find whether Iraq did this.' Now he never said, 'Make it up.' But the entire conversation left me in absolutely no doubt that George Bush wanted me to come back with a report that said Iraq did this.

"I said, 'Mr. President. We've done this before. We have been looking at this. We looked at it with an open mind. There's no connection.'

"He came back at me and said, "Iraq! Saddam! Find out if there's a connection.' And in a very intimidating way. I mean that we should come back with that answer. We wrote a report."

Clarke continued, "It was a serious look. We got together all the FBI experts, all the CIA experts. We wrote the report. We sent the report out to CIA and found FBI and said, 'Will you sign this report?' They all cleared the report. And we sent it up to the president and it got bounced by the National Security Advisor or Deputy. It got bounced and sent back saying, 'Wrong answer. ... Do it again.'
Click to expand...


Didn't mean to offend. The media to me is a true story with some twists in it. The media doesn't know everything even if a key person told them. It's interesting to read but not exactly fact.
 
john121 said:
Firstly, most of the Iraqis run when the fighting actually starts, forgetting to actually protect their country. Secondly, they don't even aim, they just shoot wildly, killing friendlies...
Click to expand...

This may be wrong, but I lol'ed.
 
dream431ca said:
Didn't mean to offend. The media to me is a true story with some twists in it. The media doesn't know everything even if a key person told them. It's interesting to read but not exactly fact.
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it's not a story ..they arent reporting anything, this is a direct interview ...you can even watch the video ...Richard clarke speaking about HIS experiences ...I dont know what could be more convincing unless that was I was to obtain a signed affidavit from everyone involved


oh I'm not offended ..it's just that some f you take the "the media is biased and nothing is true" too far ..if you have a problem with the credibility of media just read independent media or better yet many sources so that YOU can formulate with is truth and what is biased fluff ...oh and stay away from fox"news" that's an order ;)
 
ROFL Stern just quoted Richard Clarke. Yeah I bet someone who got canned by Bush's administration would have some glowing things to say about him.

When the president lies about WMD's
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Show me a link proving this. Show me anything other than a CBS op-ed piece or a bumper sticker on a soccer moms SUV that PROVES Bush LIED to congress.
 
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030319-1.html

What Bush wrote to congress.

Bush said:
based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine that:...

acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.
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There is your proof. He lied to congress, saying he had this information (ofwhich he did not) to go to war.
 
"We sent the report out to CIA and found FBI and said, 'Will you sign this report?' They all cleared the report. And we sent it up to the president and it got bounced by the National Security Advisor or Deputy. It got bounced and sent back saying, 'Wrong answer. ... Do it again.'"

Surely, they are the ones that ordered the misinformation... this guy knows what he's talking about, he wouldnt spew out random crap because he got the sack. He was taking orders, and obviously didnt do his job well enough in gathering misinformation for Bush to use as justification.

Bush wouldnt want to resign and take responsibility, no, he'll just blame it on some more bastard and fire them.
 
oldagerocker said:
"We sent the report out to CIA and found FBI and said, 'Will you sign this report?' They all cleared the report. And we sent it up to the president and it got bounced by the National Security Advisor or Deputy. It got bounced and sent back saying, 'Wrong answer. ... Do it again.'"

Surely, they are the ones that ordered the misinformation... this guy knows what he's talking about, he wouldnt spew out random crap because he got the sack. He was taking orders, and obviously didnt do his job well enough in gathering misinformation for Bush to use as justification.

Bush wouldnt want to resign and take responsibility, no, he'll just blame it on some more bastard and fire them.
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Fair enough, I agree with you on the incompetancy of this administration on this war. Ive never liked the way in which it was played out, but straight out lies are not what were told by bush. Sneaky, underhanded, yes, but I would stop short of calling him a liar. There are about a million explanations for that scenario.
 
If i was a leader of a country, i wouldnt want to send troops into war, spending billions of dollars, destroying my economy and the country domestically... on anything less than the truth, and you're a fool to do so.
 
oldagerocker said:
If i was a leader of a country, i wouldnt want to send troops into war, spending billions of dollars, destroying my economy and the country domestically... on anything less than the truth, and you're a fool to do so.
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How am I a fool?
 
gh0st said:
Fair enough, I agree with you on the incompetancy of this administration on this war. Ive never liked the way in which it was played out, but straight out lies are not what were told by bush. Sneaky, underhanded, yes, but I would stop short of calling him a liar. There are about a million explanations for that scenario.
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li·ar n.

One that tells lies.

Bush said there were WMD's in Iraq. There were not.
 
gh0st said:
Fair enough, I agree with you on the incompetancy of this administration on this war. Ive never liked the way in which it was played out, but straight out lies are not what were told by bush. Sneaky, underhanded, yes, but I would stop short of calling him a liar. There are about a million explanations for that scenario.
Click to expand...


what are you talking about? he blantantly lied:

Intelligence leaves no doubt that Iraq continues to possess and conceal lethal weapons

George Bush, US President 18 March, 2003

Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.

George Bush September 12, 2002

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.

- George Bush January 28, 2003


We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.

George Bush February 8, 2003





not only did he lie to you and the other 300 million americans but he lied to this guy:


It was a surprise to me then — it remains a surprise to me now — that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites. Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there.

Lt. Gen. James Conway, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force



he's risking his life based on a lie ...and so are hundreds of thousands more like him
 
CptStern said:
what are you talking about? he blantantly lied:

Intelligence leaves no doubt that Iraq continues to possess and conceal lethal weapons

George Bush, US President 18 March, 2003

Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.

George Bush September 12, 2002

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.

- George Bush January 28, 2003


We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.

George Bush February 8, 2003
Click to expand...
And you have sources to back all of that up saying Saddam didn't havea anything like any of that?
 
Foxtrot said:
And you have sources to back all of that up saying Saddam didn't havea anything like any of that?
Click to expand...
Guess you didn't read my thread about there being no wmd's?
 
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