The "We Won't Sell Out To Valve" pact?

[StardogChampion]

There are going to be some A+ mods coming out for HL2, and i'm afraid Valve will pull a DoD or a CS on us and buy out the most popular mods then sell them to us.

Has anyone been thinking of making anything like this? It could take the form of a simple button somewhere on a mod's site.

 

[therealescher]

A lot of (probably the majority) mod makers want to "sell out." Many people make mods with the hopes of getting a job in the game industry as a result.

 

[The Dark Elf]

A lot of (probably the majority) mod makers want to "sell out." Many people make mods with the hopes of getting a job in the game industry as a result.

Exactly.. asking them to turn down an offer from Valve or someone and pretty much harm their career just for others is like asking someone to cut off both feet.

If a mod team manage to become commercial then good for them, and I hope a few do that, will make the others try harder when they see the rewards possible from hard work.

 

[Adrien C]

There are going to be some A+ mods coming out for HL2, and i'm afraid Valve will pull a DoD or a CS on us and buy out the most popular mods then sell them to us.

Has anyone been thinking of making anything like this? It could take the form of a simple button somewhere on a mod's site.

But of course, why would team pass the chance of a life time ?

What a dumb think to say.

 

[Gekko]

Last I checked both DoD and CS are still free on their original platform, HL1.

I think you underestimate the fantastic opportunity modding creates for people to get their quality work out there to the world. As stated, most mod makers would love a job in the game industry, and what better company to work for than Valve? As an added bonus to that, you get to keep working on your mod, doing what you were doing for years for free, only now getting paid for it. Personally I think anyone who would turn down an offer like that because they think it's "selling out" is an idiot.

 

[Adrien C]

Exactly.. asking them to turn down an offer from Valve or someone and pretty much harm their career for others is like asking someone to cut off both feet.

If a mod team manage to become commercial then good for them, and I hope a few do that, will make the others try harder when they see the rewards possible from hard work.

True, but aiming to get baught by someone will mostly result in failure, the best thing to do, is make your mod the best you can, if its sells, then good, if not, maybe some other time.

I've seen some mods that " We are aiming to go comercial"

Haven't seen them in a long time....

 

[therealescher]

True, but aiming to get baught by someone will mostly result in failure, the best thing to do, is make your mod the best you can, if its sells, then good, if not, maybe some other time.

I've seen some mods that " We are aiming to go comercial"

Haven't seen them in a long time....

The way to be succesful is to make your game for the sheer enjoyment of it. Even if that particular game doesn't take hold, it's an testament to what you can do when you put your all into something, and that goes a long way in finding employment (if that is your goal).

 

[StardogChampion]

I'm not saying I don't want mods to become commercial. I just hope mod teams don't sell out to the first company that comes waving money in their faces. Several of the Red Orchestra team have gone on to bigger and better things although RO remains totally free.

I think the NS team have setup their own company to sell NS through when it goes commercial. I haven't looked into it though.

I mean, how would you guys like it if MS came in and hired the entire Firefox team, renamed it to Firefox 2.0 and started charging you for it? This is kind of how I see it.

 

[therealescher]

I mean, how would you guys like it if MS came in and hired the entire Firefox team, renamed it to Firefox 2.0 and started charging you for it? This is kind of how I see it.

Then you don't understand how Valve works. I can't speak for CS, but the DoD team has had complete control over all content, decisions, etc. since their acquisition.

 

[StardogChampion]

Then you don't understand how Valve works. I can't speak for CS, but the DoD team has had complete control over all content, decisions, etc. since their acquisition.

I never said the Firefox team wouldn't have had complete control .

 

[therealescher]

I never said the Firefox team wouldn't have had complete control .

My mistake. I misread read "charging" as "changing." So often people bitch about how Valve ruined CS and/or DoD, and I thought that's where you were going.

In any case, in your analogy you'd still be able to use FireFox 1.0 for free. If you want newer versions, you'll have to pay. Pulling back to mod teams, that seems fair to me considering the time and energy that they originally spent developing the game for free. They deserve to make money too.

 

[Raziaar]

Just remember, mods that are made are not automatically bought within the first month or two. Most mods that i've seen, like counterstrike, have a long healthy life of being a simple mod with betas etc etc etc until long down the road they are finally purchased. I expect that to be the case with most mods, so unless you never sample things, you shouldnt worry about not being able to play any of them without paying.

 

[Chris D]

There are going to be some A+ mods coming out for HL2, and i'm afraid Valve will pull a DoD or a CS on us and buy out the most popular mods then sell them to us.

Has anyone been thinking of making anything like this? It could take the form of a simple button somewhere on a mod's site.

Right... so if you made a mod, free of charge, you got no money for it and people love it and a company like Valve offered to employ you on a permanent basis with a yearly salary, a lump sum for the purchase of the rights to the game and then royalties on any copies sold - you'd turn it down?

Riiiiight......

 

[StardogChampion]

Right... so if you made a mod, free of charge, you got no money for it and people love it and a company like Valve offered to employ you on a permanent basis with a yearly salary, a lump sum for the purchase of the rights to the game and then royalties on any copies sold - you'd turn it down?

Riiiiight......

I would turn it down.

 

[therealescher]

I would turn it down.

Can you give me one good reason why that doesn't involve the ambiguous term "sell out"?

 

[AJ Rimmer]

I would turn it down.

Why?


(charcount)

 

[Nostradamus]

the mods are still free.....

neither cs or dod cost anything... yes it does for the source engine, but that has been developed FOR the source engine BY valve.

 

[StardogChampion]

Why?


(charcount)

Because money doesn't mean anything to me.

I think you underestimate the fantastic opportunity modding creates for people to get their quality work out there to the world. As stated, most mod makers would love a job in the game industry, and what better company to work for than Valve? As an added bonus to that, you get to keep working on your mod, doing what you were doing for years for free, only now getting paid for it. Personally I think anyone who would turn down an offer like that because they think it's "selling out" is an idiot.

Yes, most mod makers would love a job in the industry. But what kind of a job is working on the exact same game that you've been making for free for the next 5+ years? The only reason I can see for these guys joining up with Valve is money, therefore they've sold out.

I'm sure mod makers would rather achieve something in the gaming industry rather then just make tiny updates to an aged mod.

If you asked any of the CS team if they thought they were successful I bet they'd say "yes". But I don't think they are, they're just sellouts who've achieved nothing within the paid gaming industry.

 

[therealescher]

Yes, most mod makers would love a job in the industry. But what kind of a job is working on the exact same game that you've been making for free for the next 5+ years? The only reason I can see for these guys joining up with Valve is money, therefore they've sold out.

I'm sure mod makers would rather achieve something in the gaming industry rather then just make tiny updates to an aged mod.

If you asked any of the CS team if they thought they were successful I bet they'd say "yes". But I don't think they are, they're just sellouts who've achieved nothing within the paid gaming industry.

Do you realize the CS and DoD guys also worked on HL2, and will most likely work on any other Valve projects as well?

 

[dscowboy]

I would turn it down.

Ok, well, your situation must be pretty unique, apparently you're not interested in having a career in the gaming industry. If you 1) need money to live, and 2) want to make games for a living, then your goal is to get paid to make games. Your plan to make a mod and never receive money or a job for it doesn't really get you anywhere.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Because money doesn't mean anything to me.

if money means nothing to you, you wouldn't mind paying for a piece of software that was worth it, no matter if it once was free or not.

Yes, most mod makers would love a job in the industry. But what kind of a job is working on the exact same game that you've been making for free for the next 5+ years? The only reason I can see for these guys joining up with Valve is money, therefore they've sold out.

I would call that recognition for hard work, but people have different perceptions.. try making a mod (one that is worth being picked up, not some pre-school turnout) realize the time, work, blood sweat and tears that are poured into it.

I'm sure mod makers would rather achieve something in the gaming industry rather then just make tiny updates to an aged mod.

being picked up for a product they created is one hell of an achievement, it is recognition for the hard work that they did.

If you asked any of the CS team if they thought they were successful I bet they'd say "yes". But I don't think they are, they're just sellouts who've achieved nothing within the paid gaming industry.

lets see, were they successful? if Success is accomplishing what you set out to do then lets see...
they wanted to create their own idea of what a game could be, they did...
they wanted to be part of the industry... they are
they wanted to be paid for something the love doing.. they do and work at valve.. doesn't get any better.

I fail to see the strength of your arguement
sure it sucks to pay for something that was priorly free, but that in no way makes the developers sellouts.

anything besides that is simply being bitter.

 

[StardogChampion]

Ok, well, your situation must be pretty unique, apparently you're not interested in having a career in the gaming industry. If you 1) need money to live, and 2) want to make games for a living, then your goal is to get paid to make games. Your plan to make a mod and never receive money or a job for it doesn't really get you anywhere.

I never said I wouldn't have enough money to live. I just said that it meant nothing to me. As long as I can afford food, the place where I live, and some extra to buy anything I may want (games), then i'd be happy. Remember mods are normally a spare time thing, i'd have time to work.

If I was in this position then i'd give anyone that wanted to buy my mod the finger. Somehow, I doubt the CS team were homeless. If they wanted to hire my team to make a brand new game, then cool, i'd make a "final" version of the mod then move on and actually achieve something within the industry.

"Your plan to make a mod and never receive money or a job for it doesn't really get you anywhere."
Yes it does, i'm sure Epic have employed people that have worked on mods before. And a fully finished mod would impress any potential employer at an interview or on a resume.

"they wanted to create their own idea of what a game could be, they did..." - Yes, they managed to do that before they got paid. If they could do it fine without being paid, why accept payment for it? I can't see why, other than wanting money. I just don't agree with it, that's all...

 

[qckbeam]

I can't see what's wrong with making an amazing mod and then, if offered the chance to go retail with it, accept. It's not selling out, it's stepping up. You've gone from working on a mod, to working on a retail project for Valve Software. Come on, how is that a wrong move? You mention mods looking good on a resume. That is true; they do (if they are good at least). However once Valve picks your mod up it stops being a mod and becomes a full-fledged game. You get exposure ten times what it may have been because you have this powerhouse company supporting you. You've got Steam behind you, much greater potential for media exposure (magazines, websites, etc), and revenue. Which do you think looks better now? Hmm, I wonder

Having a mod picked up by a pro company such as Valve is the ultimate dream for a mod team.

 

[thereisaspoon]

rofl, if i see an email in my box that says "will buy your mod for x amount of money and give u a full time job at x company" i'd reply with a yes so fast my pc would crash.

and of course i would do it for the money, if there was no money, waht incentive do you have. We dont live in soviet russia people.

 

[StardogChampion]

I board full of greedy sell outs :/. What a great future we have for HL2 mods! :imu:

 

[Rupertvdb]

I think that assuming because you have made a mod you deserve money is wrong, i won't be paying any money for mods until they or their authors have proved that spending money on them is worthwhile.

Manke is a great example, i love his work and would pay a bit to play collections he produces, however for the most part sp and mp mods i have downloaded have generally been pretty tame affairs that are fun but not incredible.

I think mod makers will realise people aren't going to shell out a fiver for their 4 level counter terrorist mp until it meets certain standards. So i'm all for people 'selling out' to valve but only as long as they have made sometihng worth selling out for.

 

[qckbeam]

I board full of greedy sell outs :/. What a great future we have for HL2 mods! :imu:

Oh get off your high horse already. If I work my ass off on a mod, it turns out to be something phenomenal, and Valve approaches me asking if I'd like to go retail, I'm taking that golden opportunity. I'll work hard to deliver a quality product because it is my passion first and foremost, but I'm also trying to get the eye of the industry. If I make a retail product, versus a mod, I'm guaranteed greater exposure. It'll look better on a resume, and it will give me a bit of income. You want people to turn down such an opportunity because you don't want to pay, that's greedy- asking for the best teams to work themselves to the point of exhaustion while juggling jobs and schooling, and then turn down the benefits of that hard-work is greedy.

 

[Gelob]

Your not really selling out if you make a mod and go retail.More or less valve is trying to expand their horizions and give them a better chance on getting their mod aka product out to more of the community.

Lets say you invent a new tootbrush and start selling them out of your house,eventually u get offers from crest,colgate,etc to sell them in retail stores.I find it hard to belive anybody would say f*ck u im gonna still sell them out of my garage to my neighbors.

With mods,toothbrushes,etc It is not selling out.Its earning a living.Most mod makers never made a promise to the community saying we will keep this free.Sure they want to but if its good enough it deserves to earn money.We could go into music and movies and such but its all the same thing.People make GOOD things and earn money.Dont say OpenSource.Trust me Linux is making money.

 

[Adrien C]

I wonder, how much did CS and DOD got payed...

Any idea on that ?

 

[T.H.C.138]

isn't selling out when you don't care about the quality of product(music,mods,whatever) anymore,just the quantity of money you get for it?

have you ever heard of free samples? demos? a small example of the product for free..then you buy the full version?

people give out samples of food sometimes...if they charge for it,are they a sellout too?

its unfortunate,but money does make the world go round..and the bills go away(hope so),puts the food on the table,and the clothes on our backs..and so on.

/rant

 

[thereisaspoon]

and if one would sell a mod, one woudl be smart enough not to sell all the rights. i would only do it if i can make the decisions on the future of the game itself, and a few other conditions. i can understand one thing. if u were to sell a good mod that is not noob friendly, it will probably be nerfed pretty badly so noobs would buy it.

 

[Nudnik]

If steam buy a mod, it's better for the players. The game would be more widely distributed via steam, and thus more popular and expansive. And it would continue to be updated and fixed.

 

[Wazz Pants]

Hey i dont really care for money either, but it does come in handy when such things come around as bills, food, wanting to go to univeristy, ect.

Now if valve or some other software company where to come to be and say they want to buy my mod and the rights for it off of me i would be a bit divided on if i should do it or not. Like it would be amazing and the money would be nice, but i'd only accept their offer if i retained complete control over the project. I say that because the mod would be something i would have poured my heart and soul into and i dont want some crusty buisnessmen runining my ideas, and twising the creation that i'd have put so many hours into to make.

but yeah if i retained creative control and such i'd be all over it in a second. and once that is done i could use the money earned to work on another project that would be even better than the first because of less distractions from working a different job and such.

*edit*
i wish i could just stay at home and mod all day long...

 

[Buckaroo]

This may be the stupidest thread I've ever seen.

And I just posted in it! Doh!!!!!!!

I blame it on the rubbernecking effect.

 

[Fender357]

Oh.....I didn't realize that all of a sudden I had to pay for CS and DOD..........last time I checked I got those for free because I have HL 1.
The only real point for Valve to take peoples mods and make them "sell out" is because its really popular and they have to get it out on CD for the 56kers out there who wont assimilate to broadband


As of yet I've never payed a cent to valve for CS or DOD. CS:S is free too when you buy HL2...... so....where is this great inconviniance to us?

(seems though that DOD:S isn't free....but I'm pretty sure way less people play it..... dosn't make much sense)

 

[johnshafft]

the people that dont want money, dont have to support themselves.

those that do support themselves and have to pay rent/mortage, elec, water, trash, car, insurance, gas, phone, internet, computer, food, school, and if you want to to have a life outside of that, some money to hang out with firends and significant others.

If a mod is good enough that valve is thinking about helping the team out then that means theres enough fans or quality in the mod to warrent the 'selling out' and if that helps somebody enjoy the adventure of creating a mod by allowing them better computer equipment or software or to make things better for making the mod then who would turn it down?

 

[STEELH3D]

I didn't read through each and every post, but I always liked the example of the Desert Combat Mod team for BF1942... They are a good example of a team worthy of getting a piece of the pie.. Now in their case, Desert Combat is still free, but DICE/EA bought them, and now they're working on BF2, I don't see anything but it being better for us gamers.... To the poster, I'd almost have to guess that if you're MOD was a huge success, and Valve flashed money in your face???? Cumon, don't bullshit us.. "I would never do that!"..LoL

 

[rotzbua]

I hate people telling us they wouldn't sell their mod if they have the chance to get a job at a game company. Well, I just don't believe it. If my mod is a success and Valve comes up with a contract in my mail, I'd be amazingly fast with the reply. (Bad thing this is never going to happen to me I guess...). The thing this is all about is, that I don't believe the guys telling me they wouldnt take that *big* opportunity.

And all the complains like "OMGOMG DoD:S isn't free anymore, It's a mod, and it ISNT FREE OMG". DoD was free, because it was (and is) a mod started by a 3rd party. DoD: S and CS: S have been developed by Valve.

 

[Adrien C]

I'm sure at least 2 mods will be baught.

 

[danknerd]

-Will Work 4 Free-

lol