Theocracy in Iraq?

[Absinthe]

http://atheism.about.com/b/a/195830.htm#more

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/20/international/middleeast/20iraq.html?pagewanted=2

Never mind the site domain of the first one. Just the article and its link.

If this is indeed the case, then there's no mistaking what a massive failure and fraud the war is. Despite everything that I think is wrong with the war, I held on to the silver lining that Iraq might be a nation at liberty. But how can that possibly be the case when you're simply going to infuse Islam with the government and its laws? How much better could this be? I can't possibly see Iraq turning out good in the long run.

If we're really so hell-bent on "freeing" Iraq, then it's time to put our money where our mouth is. Rushing the political progress in Iraq is not going to do anybody any favors.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Yep ^^^^

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Depends on the extent of the theocracy. The region's cultural is suitable for it, strict secularism can't work everywhere, and if there's an example of it it's that region.

But like I said, degree of it. There's a difference between having it ruled by the religious leaders, as in Iran, or having it be a Muslim nation in state and supported/funded by the government, but people can worship other religions freely if they please.

If there's one thing you can give to the Hussein regime, it was the balance for religion and state. Put in a proper government and use that style, with Iraq being an official Muslim nation but people are free, and it'll work there.

 

[Absinthe]

But like I said, degree of it. There's a difference between having it ruled by the religious leaders, as in Iran, or having it be a Muslim nation in state and supported/funded by the government, but people can worship other religions freely if they please.

True, but the case here is that the liberties and rights of its citizens (in this article, women) are going to be diminished as a result of theocratic policies. That is a step backwards.

Should this go through, I only foresee a slippery slope. Not necessarily pre-war Iraq, per se. But a nation largely indistinguishable from the rest in the region.

Any way, I'm off to bed. Night night.

 

[SAJ]

The irony of course is that Iraq was a secular state before the invasion and occupation.
Its very likely that -had Washington not desired to break and remake Iraq from the foundations upwards- Iraq would have remained a largely secular society.

 

[CptStern]

a step in the wrong direction for women's rights

 

[KoreBolteR]

there might be difficult times now, but itll all be beneficial for the future.

 

[CptStern]

I doubt it ...Islamic countries use islam as a basis for their goverment. The law of the land cannot exist outside of the religion ...but the religion is often perverted in order to suit their agenda ...example: According to islamic law women must remain pure. In Saudi Arabia the Islamic scholars have interpreted this to mean that women cannot drive a car. Now I'm sure when the koran was written women driving cars wasnt an issue



here is their justification ..remember this is not islam talking but rather how Saudi islamic scholars interpret Islamic law:


“One: I do not see women driving cars in our country because of the consequences that would spring from it such as the spread of corruption, women uncovering their hair and faces, mingling between the sexes, men being alone with women and the destruction of the family and society in whole.

“Two: Sadd Al-Dharaie principle (the closing of doors which could lead to corruption or sinful actions) is one of the values in our religion. Women driving cars is a sinful thing. It is used by those who want to wage a war against purity and hijab.

“Three: One of the principles of our religion is protecting honor and moral values. Women driving cars would threaten these principles because of the dire consequences resulting from it.

“Four: Such public issues must be brought up with the certified religious institution who have the say in such matters as I have said many times before.”


source

 

[KoreBolteR]

I doubt it ...Islamic countries use islam as a basis for their goverment. The law of the land cannot exist outside of the religion ...but the religion is often perverted in order to suit their agenda ...example: According to islamic law women must remain pure. In Saudi Arabia the Islamic scholars have interpreted this to mean that women cannot drive a car. Now I'm sure when the koran was written women driving cars wasnt an issue



here is their justification ..remember this is not islam talking but rather how Saudi islamic scholars interpret Islamic law:


“One: I do not see women driving cars in our country because of the consequences that would spring from it such as the spread of corruption, women uncovering their hair and faces, mingling between the sexes, men being alone with women and the destruction of the family and society in whole.

“Two: Sadd Al-Dharaie principle (the closing of doors which could lead to corruption or sinful actions) is one of the values in our religion. Women driving cars is a sinful thing. It is used by those who want to wage a war against purity and hijab.

“Three: One of the principles of our religion is protecting honor and moral values. Women driving cars would threaten these principles because of the dire consequences resulting from it.

“Four: Such public issues must be brought up with the certified religious institution who have the say in such matters as I have said many times before.”


source

this is exactly why the western civilisation is better. the middle easterns treat women like sh*t, they have no proper system. hopefully .. this way the middle east can have some f*cking respect for women.

look at us (west), we have a multiculture nation with all races living as one. no way could the middle east have a multiculture nature. theyd behead anyone who isnt muslim or arab. arent i right?

plus women and men are equal in the west.

 

[CptStern]

this is exactly why the western civilisation is better. the middle easterns treat women like sh*t, they have no proper system. hopefully .. this way the middle east can have some f*cking respect for women.

look at us (west), we have a multiculture nation with all races living as one. no way could the middle east have a multiculture nature. theyd behead anyone who isnt muslim or arab. arent i right?

plus women and men are equal in the west.

no you're not right ..read what I wrote again ...it's not the religion but rather the people who pervert it


...but the west isnt exactly always secular ..look at the US and it's refusal to grant same-sex marriages ..there's no other reason but religion for that decision

 

[KoreBolteR]

i see what you mean stern. you know i wish religion was extinct everywhere. these boundaries and guidelines set by churches/mosques whatever are a fecking joke.

and you do see alot more people who beat women in the middle east. women are seen as a second class citizen... but why cant they adopt the same views as us. i think same-sex marriage should be allowed.... nobody is harming anyone, let homosexuals express thier love imo. its thier choice. its discrimination not letting them get married.

back to the middle east. why arent women allowed to show thier faces? it angers me how they are treated in the sexist middle east.

 

[CptStern]

i see what you mean stern. you know i wish religion was extinct everywhere. these boundaries and guidelines set by churches/mosques whatever are a fecking joke.

and you do see alot more people who beat women in the middle east. women are seen as a second class citizen... but why cant they adopt the same views as us. i think same-sex marriage should be allowed.... nobody is harming anyone, let homosexuals express thier love imo. its thier choice. its discrimination not letting them get married.

that's because the middle east is a male dominated society ..they falsely push their superiority in the name of islam

back to the middle east. why arent women allowed to show thier faces? it angers me how they are treated in the sexist middle east.

"One of the principles of our religion is protecting honor and moral values."


again, they've perverted the religion to suit their ideology ..it's an afghan and Saudi custom ...Iran for example doesnt strictly enforce it


btw Byzantine christians also had rules about women and covered faces, orthodox jews forbid women to expose their hair in public ..some christian sects dont allow men and women to dance together



btw when the religion of islam started women didnt cover their faces

 

[KoreBolteR]

what i wouldnt give for a world with no religion rules.

they all waste thier lives praying (well they dont see it as wasting but..)

or they blow themselves up saying thier doing it for 'allah'.

LOL they cant even prove 'allah' even exists. fools.

 

[CptStern]

/me shakes head


man, I dont like religion either but please dont generalize like that, it's not all black and white ...most religions have a lot of beauty to them too

 

[KoreBolteR]

yeah i suppose i am stereotyping.

i hate people who stereotype aswelll.. hmm. sorry

 

[qckbeam]

/me shakes head


man, I dont like religion either but please dont generalize like that, it's not all black and white ...most religions have a lot of beauty to them too

Yeah, some religions may have nice things to say (although if you were to take all the crap out of the Bible and leave only the nice things you'd be left with a Holy Brochure), but anything good they have to offer comes from common sense, not the divine. I don't need Jesus to tell me that I should treat others as I wish to be treated. With all the bad religion has brought to the world, I think we'd be much better ditching it for some simple logic, because no matter what anyone might say about religion being one of many excuses people have to do bad things, it is one of the most powerful excuses going, and many sane, normal people can fall under its spell.

 

[CptStern]

Yeah, some religions may have nice things to say (although if you were to take all the crap out of the Bible and leave only the nice things you'd be left with a Holy Brochure)

lol! hehe I nearly spit out my coffee

but anything good they have to offer comes from common sense, not the divine. I don't need Jesus to tell me that I should treat others as I wish to be treated. With all the bad religion has brought to the world, I think we'd be much better ditching it for some simple logic, because no matter what anyone might say about religion being one of many excuses people have to do bad things, it is one of the most powerful excuses going, and many sane, normal people can fall under its spell.

I completely agree ..that said, I was referring more to the humanitarianism and some of the language ..but yes I dont need a piece of paper to tell me right from wrong

 

[Lemonking]

na that wouldnt be good at al.l I think they should do it like turkey seems to work well there

 

[Tr0n]

Taoism is badass.