On Iraq ... (from an Iraqi)

[Combine_Advisor]

I (and rest of the world (the normal half)) dont see the point of the so called "war" in Iraq....

 

[Mr Stabby]

American neo-cons still support it as they don't want to admit France was right.

 

[hasan]

leib10: They're dying because soldiers in any army are trained to obey orders blindly. That's how the military work. They're dying because of the idiocy of the politicians who sent them there.
Now, each soldier probably has a theory in his mind as to why he's fighting. I think the major cause is to "fight terrorists aboard so that they don't attack the US", or something along these lines.

Solaris: your so called enemies of freedom are at the top of the new gov't in Iraq.

Polaris: I'm sure if the entire state fell in any secular country, civil war will be inevitable.
The problem in Iraq wasn't only the fall of the regime of Saddam, but the fall of the entire state.
The army, in particular, which was disbanded.

A new army was built solely on sectarian basis; in the name of democracy and representation.
The civil war didn't just start like that. It took two or three years of constant random attacks here and there to convince people at each side that the people at the other side are attacking them.

No Limit: your numbers about money are irrelevant.
Saudi Arabia (and all the gulf) are very weak countries, their militaries just suck!
They rely heavily on the US. That's why the gulf is full of US military basis.

Iran fought Iraq for 8 years, Saudi couldn't have stood against Iraq for a couple of hours.

Gulf countries are ruled by traditional tribal leaders; all they care about is their stomach. They're rich, sure, but they're very weak.

 

[No Limit]

No Limit: your numbers about money are irrelevant.
Saudi Arabia (and all the gulf) are very weak countries, their militaries just suck!
They rely heavily on the US. That's why the gulf is full of US military basis.

Iran fought Iraq for 8 years, Saudi couldn't have stood against Iraq for a couple of hours.

My main point is that you explaining why Iran is bad is the exact same thing as Rush Limbaugh explaining why Hillary Clinton is evil.

I think you aren't too happy about the fact that shia has taken control of your government when the sunnis have had control for so long, and you are actually willing to kill a bunch of innocent people in another war over that fact.

And I don't know how you could possibly say money is irrelevent. Saudi Arabia has the latest technology that we sold to themm. So again, lets be honest. The only difference here is that Saudi Arabia controls a large chunk of our (American) oil, so we look the other way when they do something stupid. And because you are a sunni Iraqi you look the other way when Saudi Arabia arms militants in your country but you are willing to go to war with Iran when they do the same.

Really, do your self a favor and think about this a bit. Because I have a really hard time understanding why you would be willing to go to war over differences in your religion.

 

[elkaebee]

Weapons of Mass Destruction.

We all laugh.

 

[SAJ]

The only difference here is that Saudi Arabia controls a large chunk of our (American) oil, so we look the other way when they do something stupid.

That's a very revealing perspective you have there.

 

[staticprimer]

My main point is that you explaining why Iran is bad is the exact same thing as Rush Limbaugh explaining why Hillary Clinton is evil.

I think you aren't too happy about the fact that shia has taken control of your government when the sunnis have had control for so long, and you are actually willing to kill a bunch of innocent people in another war over that fact.

And I don't know how you could possibly say money is irrelevent. Saudi Arabia has the latest technology that we sold to themm. So again, lets be honest. The only difference here is that Saudi Arabia controls a large chunk of our (American) oil, so we look the other way when they do something stupid. And because you are a sunni Iraqi you look the other way when Saudi Arabia arms militants in your country but you are willing to go to war with Iran when they do the same.

Really, do your self a favor and think about this a bit. Because I have a really hard time understanding why you would be willing to go to war over differences in your religion.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on this.

 

[No Limit]

That's a very revealing perspective you have there.

How so? I didn't think there was anything revealing about it, most people should already know this.

 

[SAJ]

How so? I didn't think there was anything revealing about it, most people should already know this.

I'm just saying that it's interesting that you view oil in Saudi Arabia as yours.
I was actually unaware that there was any "American" oil there at all.

Good to know that you're on the same page as Bush/Cheney.

 

[No Limit]

I'm just saying that it's interesting that you view oil in Saudi Arabia as yours.
I was actually unaware that there was any "American" oil there at all.

Good to know that you're on the same page as Bush/Cheney.

Well, I live in the real world. If you think saudi's oil is theirs then I would love to get a hold of whatever it is that you're smoking. I think Saddam tried to sell his oil in euros once, I think we all know what happened to him after that.

 

[The Monkey]

If they're not dying for your country, then what are they dying for? Our security? Hardly; Iraq even under Saddam was not a credible threat to the US. No, they are dying so that your countrymen could have a shot at a better life, and although at times it would seem better if we just left, like you said it would basically hand Iraq over to terrorists or Iran.

Most US soldiers signed up to the army because they couldn't get a job elsewhere and/or as a way to get to college. They don't give two shits about Iraqi democracy.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Most US soldiers signed up to the army because they couldn't get a job elsewhere and/or as a way to get to college. They don't give two shits about Iraqi democracy.

that /paints a very limited picture of why soldiers serve.

 

[VirusType2]

Most US soldiers signed up to the army because they couldn't get a job elsewhere and/or as a way to get to college. They don't give two shits about Iraqi democracy.

Well, yeah, it's a job, but I'm sure that most of them feel a duty, and have other strong beliefs, and feel like they are doing the right thing.

I think the majority of the US volunteers mainly want to destroy anything related to Osama Bin Laden, and all of the other people behind 9/11, and are trusting the government's decisions with blind faith.



But I partially agree about soldiers not caring about the Iraqi democracy part. I doubt half of them knew Iran from Iraq on a map, before the wars.

I don't feel out on a limb saying that Americans GENERALLY don't know much about life outside of America. Hell, I don't know the first thing about most of our own states. Utah? Kansas? Etc.. I don't think I've seen a photograph.

However, now that we are there, of course we care about Iraqi democracy.

 

[Dan]

How was it decided that democracy was the ideal form of government anyways? I see a lot of problems with it.

 

[VirusType2]

How was it decided that democracy was the ideal form of government anyways? I see a lot of problems with it.

lol

yeah, but it's better than the alternatives. At least I think it's the lesser evil.

"How was it decided that democracy was the ideal form of government?"

I guess money, income, freedom, military strength. Things like that

 

[K e r b e r o s]

How was it decided that democracy was the ideal form of government anyways? I see a lot of problems with it.

I don't find problems with the ideal's -- just the people who can't learn to live with each other.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I think the majority of the US volunteers mainly want to destroy anything related to Osama Bin Laden, and all of the other people behind 9/11, and are trusting the government's decisions with blind faith.

Uhm, no.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=785_1207667986

 

[VirusType2]

Uhm, no.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=785_1207667986

I meant, I think thats why they joined, obviously:

Most US soldiers signed up to the army because they couldn't get a job elsewhere and/or as a way to get to college. They don't give two shits about Iraqi democracy.

I think the majority of the US volunteers mainly want[ed] to destroy anything related to Osama Bin Laden, and all of the other people behind 9/11, and are trusting the government's decisions with blind faith.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Most US soldiers signed up to the army because they couldn't get a job elsewhere and/or as a way to get to college. They don't give two shits about Iraqi democracy.

Yes, and some do give a shit -- while others joined the Army to be in Army. I think you're avatars spiffy by the way.

I think the majority of the US volunteers mainly want[ed] to destroy anything related to Osama Bin Laden, and all of the other people behind 9/11, and are trusting the government's decisions with blind faith.

Nooo. Most of the people who are over in Afghanistan and Iraq right now, where people who'd been in the military at least 6 months to a 1 year before 9/11. Some where even career soldiers, with 4 to 8 years already under they're belts.

 

[VirusType2]

Yes, and some do give a shit -- while others joined the Army to be in Army. I think you're avatars spiffy by the way.



Nooo. Most of the people who are over in Afghanistan and Iraq right now, where people who'd been in the military at least 6 months to a 1 year before 9/11. Some where even career soldiers, with 4 to 8 years already under they're belts.

Oh I see what you were saying.

I assumed we were talking about why people joined after the war started, of which I could only speculate, however I didn't think it was because they couldn't find a job. Honestly, who would join the military at a time of war, to fight in a war, except for those who were for the cause - that was my point.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

How was it decided that democracy was the ideal form of government anyways? I see a lot of problems with it.

Because the only good form of government is no government (anarchism). But since that doesn't work, we have to go with one where the government has limited control.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Honestly, who would join the military at a time of war, to fight in a war, except for those who were for the cause - that was my point.

Cool, Gotcha

 

[Dan]

Because the only good form of government is no government (anarchism). But since that doesn't work, we have to go with one where the government has limited control.

Your logic isn't complete:
1. Anarchy is best
2. Anarchy doesn't work
3. Therefore limited control is best
4. Therefore democracy is best

1 and 2 and 3 are all pretty flimsy and up for debate, and 4 doesn't even logically follow from your statements.

and,

Honestly, who would join the military at a time of war, to fight in a war, except for those who were for the cause - that was my point.

People looking for a job
People looking for an adventure
People who want to see Iraq
People who want to blow something up
People who want to kill someone
People who want to shoot things
People who got duped by a shopping mall recruiter
People who were pressured to join by parents
People who want to prove they are tough

 

[CptStern]

lol @ "People who want to see Iraq"

ya I'm sure there's a ton of military recruits just itching to sight see

"oh look there's a crumbled wall I wonder if it's from the period before Nebuchadnezzar ..oh wait it's recent you can still see a corpse partially sticking out from under the rubble"



btw the majority of american soldiers in iraq (as of 2006) overwhelmingly thought that Saddam Hussein was at least in part responsible for 9/11 ....so you can add "Revenge" to that list:

While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,”

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?id=1075

 

[The Monkey]

btw the majority of american soldiers in iraq (as of 2006) overwhelmingly thought that Saddam Hussein was at least in part responsible for 9/11 ....so you can add "Revenge" to that list:

Can you blame them?

Most soldiers come from poor families without a tradition of critical thought. They were the prime target of Bush's propaganda machine in the lead-up to the war. And I doubt they have access to free information once they've joined the army.

 

[Top Secret]

lol @ "People who want to see Iraq"

ya I'm sure there's a ton of military recruits just itching to sight see

"oh look there's a crumbled wall I wonder if it's from the period before Nebuchadnezzar ..oh wait it's recent you can still see a corpse partially sticking out from under the rubble"

Don't knock him - he has a true point. My coworker joined because he literally wanted to see the geography over there.

Anywho, I really don't see the big deal about the war, most of the women, children, soldiers, Iraqis dying are religious (Chrisian or Muslim) fanatics or neo war mongers. =l

Salves multiple problems at once IMHO...

 

[Solaris]

lol @ "People who want to see Iraq"

ya I'm sure there's a ton of military recruits just itching to sight see

"oh look there's a crumbled wall I wonder if it's from the period before Nebuchadnezzar ..oh wait it's recent you can still see a corpse partially sticking out from under the rubble"



btw the majority of american soldiers in iraq (as of 2006) overwhelmingly thought that Saddam Hussein was at least in part responsible for 9/11 ....so you can add "Revenge" to that list:



http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?id=1075

"Consider that there are 19 year old soldiers from the Midwest who have never touched a college campus or a protest who have done more to uphold the universal legitimacy of representative government and individual rights by placing themselves between Iraqi voting lines and homicidal religious fanatics."
-Mark Daily Kia in Iraq