Theory on Gravity (Long explanation)

dream431ca

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Ok..I assume you've heard of the extremely famous formula E=MC2. What this means is that mass and energy and related and connected to each other. For example, Uranium 238. You split the atom by adding one neutron to the nucleus of the atom and make it so unstable that it can't hold itself and it splits. When you add the two seperate atoms you created my spliting the atom, the two pieces do not add up to the total amount you had when you had an atom of Uranium 238 because part of it was turned into energy. So that's how E=MC2 works.

Now think of a car moving down a road a lets say 80 KPH. You can find the cars energy by finding the car's momentum by:

Momentum = Mass X Velocity.

Lets say the car has a mass of 500 Kilograms so the momentum would be:

80 X 500 = 40000 Neuton Meters.

So any object traveling at any speed has some energy. (I know your wondering what this has to do with gravity)

Ok..now lets focus on planet earth..the whole planet floating in space. The earth's mass 5.98e24 Kilograms. A extremely large mass floating in space. But what is space?? Is it just empty..or is there more to it?? Gravity is described as a force which pulls objects together...basically if you drop a basketball, the ball will fall towards the earth but the earth will pull up towards the basketball (in a very small amount), but it still happens.

Now that you got energy and mass all figured out, how does it effect gravity? The key is in light. We all heard of light bending. Light only bends if there is another medium for it to pass through. For example: Air and Water.

Light bends because it passes through a less dense medium to a more dense medium (or vise versa) in which case that's air to water. Light also bends through gravity. People often believed that it was the force of gravity that bends the light towards a black hole or a planet or something. I think that's false. Light itself cannot be bent by any force, because it has no mass. Force only applies to mass and because light has no mass, it can't bend towards any force.

My Theory implies that light bends because it passes through another medium, not because of the force of gravity. The earth's mass is huge and so is it's Energy that is proved by the formula E=MC2, which means that the mass or energy that the earth has is distorting the space around it, creating another sort of medium that bends light when it passes through it. The question is, what kind of medium is this? It's different from normal space because light does not bend in space that is not effected by gravity. So Light has to be passing through something more dense (or less dense) then space itself.

So to end this all off...Mass or Energy from the planet or whatever, is creating a sort of another medium for light to pass through, therefore light bends. So gravity can be described as another medium and a force as opposed to just a force.

Just a thought :)
 
dream431ca said:
Light bends because it passes through a less dense medium to a more dense medium (or vise versa) in which case that's air to water. Light also bends through gravity. People often believed that it was the force of gravity that bends the light towards a black hole or a planet or something. I think that's false. Light itself cannot be bent by any force, because it has no mass. Force only applies to mass and because light has no mass, it can't bend towards any force.

Black holes tend to throw classic ideas of physics out the window. I wouldn't even try to explain them. Even today, there is no satisfactory theory for what happens at and beyond the singularity.
 
Kyo said:
Black holes tend to throw classic ideas of physics out the window. I wouldn't even try to explain them. Even today, there is no satisfactory theory for what happens at and beyond the singularity.

I'm not really talking about the singularity but why does light bend towards the black hole in the first place? Basically before it even reaches the black hole it bends, and my theory is that gravity is more of a distortion and a force rather than just a force.
 
Once light passes the Schwarzschild radius it cannot escape we know that. I do see what your talking about. However, the general accepted theory is due to gravity.

Tis all very interesting anyhow.
 
Black holes are god unplugging a drain to punish a far far away civilization for their misdeeds.

We're next!
 
Neuton Meters.

These should be called 'neuters', no? :cheese:

Interesting thought though...I used to think about that kind of stuff all the time :rolleyes:
 
Light does not bend itself, it follows a straight space-time path.

Around areas of concentrated gravity, space time bends, and hence the light appears to bend, following the curved space-time path.

It's not to do with refractive indexes, that kind of thing is the electromagnetic interaction of light with matter.

Also when light is bent by gravity, it appears to have a parabolic (curved) path, whereas light passing through various refractive media are sharp changes.

To get a parabolic path with refraction, you would need a gradient of refractive indices.
 
Raziaar said:
Black holes are god unplugging a drain to punish a far far away civilization for their misdeeds.

We're next!

Sociocide!
 
kirovman said:
Light does not bend itself, it follows a straight space-time path.

Around areas of concentrated gravity, space time bends, and hence the light appears to bend, following the curved space-time path.

It's not to do with refractive indexes, that kind of thing is the electromagnetic interaction of light with matter.

Also when light is bent by gravity, it appears to have a parabolic (curved) path, whereas light passing through various refractive media are sharp changes.

To get a parabolic path with refraction, you would need a gradient of refractive indices.
Kirovman wins, we can let this thread die now :p
 
Actually it's Newton (as in Sir Isaac Newton) metres, not "Neuton".

Also your calculation is wrong. It should be 22.22 x 50 = 1111.11Nm (because 80K/h = 22.22m/s).
 
Nice theory. Your teh science! Go put in in wikipedia or something.
 
I have to go with string theory on this one and say that gravity is actually a force of higher dimensional geometry.

For example take a 2d-plane (a piece of paper for example) and imagine that it is a universe for 2d beings. If we crumple the paper up then straigent it back up so that it is no longer flat but has various bumps everywhere, any 2d-being trying to navigate this plane would come across these strange forces pulling him in different directions (the creases on the paper). He of course has also been crumpled aswell so from his perspective, his universe is still flat. Therefore gravity is a force of geometry. In this case a 3d geometry (the paper has creases going up and down, z-axis).

This is a very basic example but it gets the point across. Gravity is a force of higher dimensional geometry.
 
dream431ca said:
Ok..I assume you've heard of the extremely famous formula E=MC2. What this means is that mass and energy and related and connected to each other. For example, Uranium 238. You split the atom by adding one neutron to the nucleus of the atom and make it so unstable that it can't hold itself and it splits. When you add the two seperate atoms you created my spliting the atom, the two pieces do not add up to the total amount you had when you had an atom of Uranium 238 because part of it was turned into energy. So that's how E=MC2 works.

Now think of a car moving down a road a lets say 80 KPH. You can find the cars energy by finding the car's momentum by:

Momentum = Mass X Velocity.

Lets say the car has a mass of 500 Kilograms so the momentum would be:

80 X 500 = 40000 Neuton Meters.

So any object traveling at any speed has some energy. (I know your wondering what this has to do with gravity)

Ok..now lets focus on planet earth..the whole planet floating in space. The earth's mass 5.98e24 Kilograms. A extremely large mass floating in space. But what is space?? Is it just empty..or is there more to it?? Gravity is described as a force which pulls objects together...basically if you drop a basketball, the ball will fall towards the earth but the earth will pull up towards the basketball (in a very small amount), but it still happens.

Now that you got energy and mass all figured out, how does it effect gravity? The key is in light. We all heard of light bending. Light only bends if there is another medium for it to pass through. For example: Air and Water.

Light bends because it passes through a less dense medium to a more dense medium (or vise versa) in which case that's air to water. Light also bends through gravity. People often believed that it was the force of gravity that bends the light towards a black hole or a planet or something. I think that's false. Light itself cannot be bent by any force, because it has no mass. Force only applies to mass and because light has no mass, it can't bend towards any force.

My Theory implies that light bends because it passes through another medium, not because of the force of gravity. The earth's mass is huge and so is it's Energy that is proved by the formula E=MC2, which means that the mass or energy that the earth has is distorting the space around it, creating another sort of medium that bends light when it passes through it. The question is, what kind of medium is this? It's different from normal space because light does not bend in space that is not effected by gravity. So Light has to be passing through something more dense (or less dense) then space itself.

So to end this all off...Mass or Energy from the planet or whatever, is creating a sort of another medium for light to pass through, therefore light bends. So gravity can be described as another medium and a force as opposed to just a force.

Just a thought :)
so what your saying is, whenever you drop soemthing, earth pulls a little towards it? and gravity is consider same force as light, because it has no mass? im kinda confused.
 
McFace said:
I have to go with string theory on this one and say that gravity is actually a force of higher dimensional geometry.

For example take a 2d-plane (a piece of paper for example) and imagine that it is a universe for 2d beings. If we crumple the paper up then straigent it back up so that it is no longer flat but has various bumps everywhere, any 2d-being trying to navigate this plane would come across these strange forces pulling him in different directions (the creases on the paper). He of course has also been crumpled aswell so from his perspective, his universe is still flat. Therefore gravity is a force of geometry. In this case a 3d geometry (the paper has creases going up and down, z-axis).

This is a very basic example but it gets the point across. Gravity is a force of higher dimensional geometry.
i like that, accually made sense to me!
 
dream431ca said:
Ok..now lets focus on planet earth..the whole planet floating in space. The earth's mass 5.98e24 Kilograms. A extremely large mass floating in space. But what is space?? Is it just empty..or is there more to it?? Gravity is described as a force which pulls objects together...basically if you drop a basketball, the ball will fall towards the earth but the earth will pull up towards the basketball (in a very small amount), but it still happens.

Now that you got energy and mass all figured out, how does it effect gravity? The key is in light. We all heard of light bending. Light only bends if there is another medium for it to pass through. For example: Air and Water.

Light bends because it passes through a less dense medium to a more dense medium (or vise versa) in which case that's air to water. Light also bends through gravity. People often believed that it was the force of gravity that bends the light towards a black hole or a planet or something. I think that's false. Light itself cannot be bent by any force, because it has no mass. Force only applies to mass and because light has no mass, it can't bend towards any force.

My Theory implies that light bends because it passes through another medium, not because of the force of gravity. The earth's mass is huge and so is it's Energy that is proved by the formula E=MC2, which means that the mass or energy that the earth has is distorting the space around it, creating another sort of medium that bends light when it passes through it. The question is, what kind of medium is this? It's different from normal space because light does not bend in space that is not effected by gravity. So Light has to be passing through something more dense (or less dense) then space itself.

So to end this all off...Mass or Energy from the planet or whatever, is creating a sort of another medium for light to pass through, therefore light bends. So gravity can be described as another medium and a force as opposed to just a force.

Just a thought :)


Hmm, I do think you understand the concept of space time.

Imagine a cloth with a person holding each corner so the cloth is above the ground, and flat becuase its being pulled reasonable tightly.

This cloth represents Space-Time

Now lets look at how the earth affects space time.

If you get a french bowling ball, and put it in the middle of the cloth, it makes the cloth sag downwards, so now the center of the cloth is lower than the rest. now, if you put a tennis ball on the cloth, this could represent the moon. it would role down into the earth, and if you gave it a push away from the bowling ball, and there was no friction of air resitance, it would start to roll around the bowling ball.

This is what mass does to the fabric of space time, it bends it. So its not actually a force as such. Now what I decirbes only a metaphor, becuase you would need gravity anyway to get the cloth to bend, but thats the basic idea.

And light travels along the cloth so where the cloth bends light does.



That my freind is what happens!
 
ktimekiller said:
so what your saying is, whenever you drop soemthing, earth pulls a little towards it? and gravity is consider same force as light, because it has no mass? im kinda confused.
The same way the earth and the moon revolves around each other, the earth and a basket ball revolves around each other. But since the basket ball is so small and the earth so big, the earth's reaction is far too small for anyone to notice. People use this teqnice in hammer throw; the hammer spin around them, and they spin around the hammer.

hammer%20throw%2001.jpg
 
McFace said:
I have to go with string theory on this one and say that gravity is actually a force of higher dimensional geometry.

For example take a 2d-plane (a piece of paper for example) and imagine that it is a universe for 2d beings. If we crumple the paper up then straigent it back up so that it is no longer flat but has various bumps everywhere, any 2d-being trying to navigate this plane would come across these strange forces pulling him in different directions (the creases on the paper). He of course has also been crumpled aswell so from his perspective, his universe is still flat. Therefore gravity is a force of geometry. In this case a 3d geometry (the paper has creases going up and down, z-axis).

This is a very basic example but it gets the point across. Gravity is a force of higher dimensional geometry.

Doesnt it state that light is also a result of higher dimensional phenomena?
 
Light bends because of interfering particles, space is space, it doesn't matter what's in it. Why the hell would you create a metaphysical medium just because the earth has an enormous potential energy when you can just explain how light bounces off the nitrogen/hydrogen/oxygen/carbon or whatever molecules in the air?
 
Solaris said:
And light travels along the cloth so where the cloth bends light does.

So you're saying light is bent by gravity, which is the opposite of what dream is saying.

You could have been much clearer in your contradiction.

And also, I'm really confused as to people saying "nice theory" and acting all impressed when they probably don't know what it means, and don't realize it has no factual backing. Here's dream's theory in a nutshell:

Earth's potential energy creates a different "medium" in space that bends light.

Okay, I'm sorry but that:

1. Makes no sense
2. Has no reason for existing, since it does not explain any unkown phenomenon (which is what theories are for)
3. Has no factual support, it's just a wild hypothesis.
 
Yes, Im saying the opposite of what String said, and exactly what teh currently mager theory states.
 
Solaris said:
Yes, Im saying the opposite of what String said, and exactly what teh currently mager theory states.

You guys call him string?

Oh, and I agree with you, I was just pointing out that you weren't being that clear.
 
AzzMan said:
Doesnt it state that light is also a result of higher dimensional phenomena?

It does, if I remember correctly it states that light is actually a vibration of something in a higher dimension. I have a book called Hyperspace by Michu Kaku on string theory but it's been awhile.

Im sure if you wiki string theory theres an explination. If not I can re-read the chapter and put the gist of it in here.

EDIT: Something to do with the 5th dimension.

NOVA did a great program on string theory/higher dimensions etc

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/
 
We have to remeber that were in 11 dimensions for it to make sense.
 
wow, i read the first post and everyone said everything that i was going to post! physics nerds for teh win!
 
neptuneuk said:
wow, i read the first post and everyone said everything that i was going to post! physics nerds for teh win!

Heh, if you were a real physics nerd you'd have posted 10 pages on how everyone isn't exactly right while explaining 50 different theories relating to light ;).
 
Reminds me of that guy that said he was a time traveler of 2037. True or not, he had some cool theories of how time was built :).
 
TheSomeone said:
Heh, if you were a real physics nerd you'd have posted 10 pages on how everyone isn't exactly right while explaining 50 different theories relating to light ;).

can you prove my 50 theories wrong? can you!?

can i prove everyone else wrong? can you prove me wrong? can we prove anything!?

Beerdude26 said:
Reminds me of that guy that said he was a time traveler of 2037. True or not, he had some cool theories of how time was built :).

what were they?
 
higher group symmetry electrodynamics O(3) has already created a unified field theory, Gravity Mass and Electromagnetic's are all different manifestation's of energy from the same source (Vacuum state).

What we percieve as gravity has higher dimensional geometry which is why it seems so weak to our perception base, from that same source the E field and B field we percieve has physical quantum vector values, (non zero value) which is why they are percieved as being strong, gravity waves or 'scalar' waves are zero vector virtual waves (higher dimensional symetry) they are not hertzian waves, which is why this wave does not appear in the spectrum, its the universal sub structure wave of everything.
 
I never understand anything what clarky says, it's annoying :(
 
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