There are comparable games to DOOM3 and HL2...

Cannibal Corpse

Cannibal Corpse

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Painkiller and FarCry are two examples. These two games have pretty much EVERYTHING that Doom3 and HL2 have and maybe even more.

Sure, DOOM3 and HLF2 might look nicer, or play better, but the technology that used to sell id's and Valve engine are being developed by very talented developers.

The point that I am trying to make is that I am tired of people praising id and Valve. They make great games, but so does many smaller developers.
 
You do know you can't duck in Painkiller, right?

GENERAL GAMING FORUM!
 
From playing both the demo's of FarCry and Painkiller, i can say they both lack the atmosphere that Half-Life had and im sure HL2 and DooM 3 are both going to have MUCH better atmosphere. From the things i've read about DooM 3, walking around in pitch black with nothing but a torch to fend off zombies, it sounds terrifying. And i dont think i need to explain what i expect HL2 to be like, on this forum.

And just for my say, I reckon LucasArts makes better games then both VALVe and iD put together, but then again, they make totally different games to those 2. And VALVe has only made 1 game so far.
 
I got lost at the part where games that look nicer and play better are still comparable to those that look worse and play more poorly.

If you're tired of people praising valve and id, that's fine, but don't make up some garbage argumentation. What makes a game engine good is implementation, not capability. There are a million free programming tutorials on how to code render effects and such like. The talent lies in being able to bind those parts together to a cohesive whole.
 
What I am trying to say is that the wait for seeing the kinds of Doom3 and HL2 is OVER:

You can pretty much get a very good feel of them by playing the likes of Painkillers and FarCrys.

I don't care about the story or mood of Doom3 or HL2.
 
max payne 2 was wicked :D , far cry demo was alright but lacking a feeling that makes me wanna play it again
 
Yeah, Max Payne 2 was the best game of last year, and way better then both FarCry and PainKiller, but im basing my opinion on their demo's so i suppose it doesnt count to me.

Cannibal, you say you dont care for the mood or story of FarCry or Painkiller? But PainKiller is a dark, gothic shoot-em-up. If that had no mood there it would just be Serious Sam 3 pretty much. And i agree with Navy Man on FarCry.
 
The real physics, realy time shadows, etc. They are there...

FictiousWill you fit exactly to the type of id and Valve praisers that I mentioned earlier.
 
The physics and the lighting, yeah they are there, but are you talking technologically comparable? or game-wise?
 
Ok well just because they are part fo the engine does not mean they're comparable to the lighting effects in a game like Doom 3. HL2, yes, they're comparable for sure, probably better from what i've seen and played of PainKiller and FarCry (But hey, VALVe might update the lighting). But comparable to DooM 3, no way. Anybody who knows what DooM 3 can do with lighting, knows its the best and way ahead of everyone else in that area.
 
I agree with Cannibal in that yes, no one really holds a clear lead in technology because there is so much good talent out there technology wise. But I can't see how you can say a game is defined by nothing but its technology. I think people who believe this just need a better imagination because there will be (I'm hoping in HL2) new experiences authored that you've never had before in any other game (even those with state of the art tech) solely due to good game design.
This argument to me is simply on par with 'you can write better books on a computer than you can with a pen'.
 
Cannibal Corpse said:
I don't care about the story or mood of Doom3 or HL2.
Click to expand...
Well that's a tad odd.

The only thing that seperated the original Half-Life from the pack was the story and mood. Now it's at a point where i don't care about the technology as many companies are starting to implement physics and other next gen stuff. It feels standard.

So now we're back to square one.....good stories ...lots of immersion.

As for Painkiller, i loved the feel to it. Very gory, dark, dingy. I love the premise to the story. It feels very atmospheric to run around. The physics are great, as usual! The gameplay is too repetitive, though it's awesome fun shooting the stakes at zombies.
 
Isn't painkiller just "serious sam" upgraded? Gameplay = nonstop blasting action? (That's what I've gathered from what I've read.)
 
Hmm, imagine Doom 2 level 16 - Suburbs.

Demon slaying spam fest. Fighting the giant boss at the end is fun. Watching those huge pillars crumble with the physics is awesome.

In fact it feels like the Doom gameplay re-incarnated. Hundreds of monsters and huge, literally huge (20 m tall) bosses.
 
Cannibal Corpse said:
Painkiller and FarCry are two examples. These two games have pretty much EVERYTHING that Doom3 and HL2 have and maybe even more.

Sure, DOOM3 and HLF2 might look nicer, or play better, but the technology that used to sell id's and Valve engine are being developed by very talented developers.

The point that I am trying to make is that I am tired of people praising id and Valve. They make great games, but so does many smaller developers.
Click to expand...

True but not true enough. Makers of FarCry and Painkiller are just not established yet as VALVe and id. Of course these games are their oportunity for them to become acknowledged as one of te best game developers in the world (like VALVe has with HL1). But until the days of their release, I rather belive the established developers.
 
Well most of the praise that valve and Id are getting has also to do with the simple fact there games are mod friendly the D3 source is built into the exe and HL2 as we know will have mod tools for it.

So not only do these games have good stories and advanced technology but they allow the consumer an easy way to mod them.

General run down of the top games coming soon.

Stalker - safari game go out hunting in the hot zone come back to check points sell what you find for new equiptment so you can go deeper into the hot zone to unravel the story. Seems to be a simple bounty hunter game.

Far Cry - military setting you find yourself on an island and try to stay alive long enough to figure out the story. Nice graphics, can snipe from approx 2 kilo's away and the AI is incredible smart they will even call for reinforcements. Looks to be promising but my first take of the name i thought it might be a mystery thriller, the name really doesnt fit the game.

Painkiller - dark gothic ect. you fight to kill the demons and as you gain more kills you gain demon abailities along the way eventually turning you into a demon. Doesnt offer much of a story more like a death match game.

Doom3 - run around fun house, can you survive the hell game, it will include the best graphics of its time breaking new ground. I think making mods for this will not come easy the lighting has to be perfect i think amatures will have alot of problems when just trying to make simple maps that reveal so much detail. In other words there is no room for covering up little things they will be very visible to all so this will take the noob modders yrs just to make one good looking map, theres no tucking stuff under the rug and hope ppl dont notice your mistakes.

Half Life 2 - do i really need to say anything here.. Modder friendly yes most likly the very best modder friendly game on the market "show me better/?" a very well liked and tested story, its a city under siege and your gordon freeman da man!

Now D3 specific - its game engine will be used by many developers to make new future games, these developers are not noobs using dev tools for the very first time and can do some pretty awsome things, this is how i see the game getting its praise in that its a stepping stone for the future.

For the average consumer all these games are great if you have the money but my first to buy games are HL2 , Far Cry , Stalker , D3 , Painkiller ... Ya Ut2k4 is also right up there as a fun game to play and can easly replace any on the list just because its fun but lacks a story, this is why HL2 has top spot its got a massive 12 chapters story with side quests and the story is already proven to be one of the best ever in gaming history.

From all the info i have gathered i choose HL2 it has comparable graphics that can match up to any on this list, its modder friendly, has decent game physics that can again also match up against any of the games on the list and its got the already proven to be awsome story. If you didnt like the story then your the minority.

Valve has produced the best quality product for your moneys worth and thats why it gets all the hype.

Another reason HL2 gets more praise is because of advertising even bad stuff is good publicity and builds hype.

Cannibal - you cant stop ppl from praising the games, HL already has a huge community just that driving force alone sends shockwaves throughout the entire internet, but if its any satisfaction to no that Far Cry is doing well in the race, ive seen it explode on a few forums into 10+ pages of demo talk just its a new game and will take time to spread the word. But all that demo talk there was no mention of story just mostly technical stuff on how well the AI reacts ect and this is were valve kicks it into high gear and why they win game of the yr awards because they have an enjoyable story for you to play in.
 
In my opinion. PainKiller is not comparable to HL2 or Doom 3 at all. FarCry is comparable, but it lacks the atmosphere that Half-Life has. And even though the A.I is good in FarCry i dont see why there's all this praise for it. The A.I can spot you from 2 km's away whilst you're lying down in the scrub, sniping them. Yet when im in a close combat fight and i throw a rock near them, they'll circle around the rock as if they're a Cat playing with a ball of yarn.

A great example of how important atmosphere & a good story is in a game is System Shock 2 (I haven't played system shock 1 yet) The graphics are worse then Half Life and HL is a year or 2 older, but the game is absolutely terrifying, if it weren't for the atmosphere or the story-line, that game would've sucked ass.
 
Dark Angel said:
Well most of the praise that valve and Id are getting has also to do with the simple fact there games are mod friendly the D3 source is built into the exe and HL2 as we know will have mod tools for it.

So not only do these games have good stories and advanced technology but they allow the consumer an easy way to mod them.

General run down of the top games coming soon.

Stalker - safari game go out hunting in the hot zone come back to check points sell what you find for new equiptment so you can go deeper into the hot zone to unravel the story. Seems to be a simple bounty hunter game.

Far Cry - military setting you find yourself on an island and try to stay alive long enough to figure out the story. Nice graphics, can snipe from approx 2 kilo's away and the AI is incredible smart they will even call for reinforcements. Looks to be promising but my first take of the name i thought it might be a mystery thriller, the name really doesnt fit the game.

Painkiller - dark gothic ect. you fight to kill the demons and as you gain more kills you gain demon abailities along the way eventually turning you into a demon. Doesnt offer much of a story more like a death match game.

Doom3 - run around fun house, can you survive the hell game, it will include the best graphics of its time breaking new ground. I think making mods for this will not come easy the lighting has to be perfect i think amatures will have alot of problems when just trying to make simple maps that reveal so much detail. In other words there is no room for covering up little things they will be very visible to all so this will take the noob modders yrs just to make one good looking map, theres no tucking stuff under the rug and hope ppl dont notice your mistakes.

Half Life 2 - do i really need to say anything here.. Modder friendly yes most likly the very best modder friendly game on the market "show me better/?" a very well liked and tested story, its a city under siege and your gordon freeman da man!

Now D3 specific - its game engine will be used by many developers to make new future games, these developers are not noobs using dev tools for the very first time and can do some pretty awsome things, this is how i see the game getting its praise in that its a stepping stone for the future.

For the average consumer all these games are great if you have the money but my first to buy games are HL2 , Far Cry , Stalker , D3 , Painkiller ... Ya Ut2k4 is also right up there as a fun game to play and can easly replace any on the list just because its fun but lacks a story, this is why HL2 has top spot its got a massive 12 chapters story with side quests and the story is already proven to be one of the best ever in gaming history.

From all the info i have gathered i choose HL2 it has comparable graphics that can match up to any on this list, its modder friendly, has decent game physics that can again also match up against any of the games on the list and its got the already proven to be awsome story. If you didnt like the story then your the minority.

Valve has produced the best quality product for your moneys worth and thats why it gets all the hype.

Another reason HL2 gets more praise is because of advertising even bad stuff is good publicity and builds hype.

Cannibal - you cant stop ppl from praising the games, HL already has a huge community just that driving force alone sends shockwaves throughout the entire internet, but if its any satisfaction to no that Far Cry is doing well in the race, ive seen it explode on a few forums into 10+ pages of demo talk just its a new game and will take time to spread the word. But all that demo talk there was no mention of story just mostly technical stuff on how well the AI reacts ect and this is were valve kicks it into high gear and why they win game of the yr awards because they have an enjoyable story for you to play in.
Click to expand...


That was almost comical to read.. lol
negative
negative
negative
hl2 POSITIVE!!#@!@#1111oneoneone!!!
negative,
 
Well im trying to give him the why HL is so popular as apposed to the rest but i still belive if you got the money buy all of em.

And i also agree that painkiller doesnt come close enough to the list to be really considered great.
 
1. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. :thumbs:
2. DOOM III :thumbs:
3. HL2
 
Cannibal Corpse said:
I don't care about the story or mood of Doom3 or HL2.
Click to expand...


Right there you prove to the world that youare a ****tard. (And not a gamer at that). It is people like you that bitch and whine even when something is beautiful or as close to perfection as possible. Now go run and wank off to your old copy of tomb raider.
 
FictiousWill said:
I got lost at the part where games that look nicer and play better are still comparable to those that look worse and play more poorly.

If you're tired of people praising valve and id, that's fine, but don't make up some garbage argumentation. What makes a game engine good is implementation, not capability. There are a million free programming tutorials on how to code render effects and such like. The talent lies in being able to bind those parts together to a cohesive whole.
Click to expand...


will = w1n
 
if you ask me Far Cry has bucket fulls of atmosphere, I guess alot of peeps jus watch the E3 vids everyday. It has its own kind of atmosphere. comparing these games arnt really the best idea either, there so different . the only terribly blatant thing they have in common is there all FPS's
 
I've played both the Far Cry and Pain Killer demos and all I can say is that they are garbage. I didn't like them at all and I feel they aren't on the same level as Doom 3 and HL2. I haven't played either but I have faith that they'll be good, unlike the trash that Far Cry and Pain Killer are.
 
I still don't see why anyone would go to a Half-Life 2 fansite, and then ask people there why they don't look at the merits of other games that they think will probably be better and merit more praise. Of course the people here are going to support Valve and Half-Life 2 over the others.
 
Anyone who thinks Painkiller will rival ANY game has to be a little loony, though... I'll take Barbie's Ultimate Pet Adventure, please.
 
Letters said:
Anyone who thinks Painkiller will rival ANY game has to be a little loony, though... I'll take Barbie's Ultimate Pet Adventure, please.
Click to expand...

bah.. Painkiller could rival UT2K4 :)
Well, in my opinion. UT2K4 is cool, but, I could see myself purchasing PK over UT2K4.. although doubt I'll buy either, I haven't given UT2K4 a big enough chance
 
come one people...if im right, this still is a half-life 2 forum, and you are all talking about praising hl2...of course we do, we are members of this forum...;)
 
Where is the "amazing" AI in FarCry that I keep hearing about?

Honestly, if you spook them even the slightest bit they start jittering about, getting stuck on every obstacle, and stepping side to side very rapidly. They can't find a big person with a sniper rifle sticking out of a small plant two feet directly in front of them... even if you fire it. If you ask me, HL grunt AI was better than the AI in the FarCry demo.

"... but they call for reinforcements!"

That's a very basic function, in terms of AI:
1) Play a sound (say "Help!" or some crap like that).
2) Do several distance checks to nearby people. If they are within a certain range, they are alerted.
3) Alerted people try to find their way to the origin of the sound (basic pathfinding).

NOTE: I tried all of the difficulty settings for the FarCry demo... and they all felt exactly the same.
 
OCybrManO, I agree with you that Far Cry AI isn't anything special. But they do know how to find you, most of the time a little too well. Not rare for me to snipe one from 200 meters with a single shot, and they still find me without even looking in the right direction. Hiding on an island with a jungle is surprisingly hard.

Anyone who thinks Painkiller will rival ANY game has to be a little loony, though... I'll take Barbie's Ultimate Pet Adventure, please.
Click to expand...

PK may have very simple straightforward gameplay, but I've had more fun with the demo than any other FULL game of last year.
 
My favorite FarCry AI "feature" was the "run out of bullets, stand still, and stare at the enemy" tactic they frequently employed... that was the only fun/funny moment I had in the FarCry demo.
 
OCybrManO said:
My favorite FarCry AI "feature" was the "run out of bullets, stand still, and stare at the enemy" tactic they frequently employed... that was the only fun/funny moment I had in the FarCry demo.
Click to expand...

They do like staring eh? Like when you shoot the gunner out of the boat, the driver is trying to stare you to death. A tactic that often fails.
 
I've been playing the Far Cry demo since it was out, and I still haven't seen the AI do any of those things (getting stuck, not seeing you, etc.). I guess my demo's bugged.

Painkiller practically doesn't have a story, but that hasn't stopped me from playing it non-stop. Technologically, it's great, physics seem as good as anything I've seen HL2 do in the vids (our outside of them), and grafics are also great. It's just plain fun, and that's what matters to me (how many movies with great critical appraise for their story have you seen that were horridlly boring, while you've had a better time with nonstop action/adventure ones?)

Both games are easy to mod. I'm no expert, but I managed to mod the PK demo a bit with just a few text edits, so imagine what a real modding team could do. Far Cry had mods the same day the demo came out, including new maps, weapons, vehicles, etc.. The "HL2/Doom3 is easy to mod" doesn't say much.

But anyways, I'm buying all four.
 
All those who doubt Far Cry's AI, but on 'AI auto-balence' I too haven't experienced many stupid things :)
 
That new map that has been released is laughable too, what a screw up with such great potential.

Oh yeah, example of staring AI:
 
mrBadger said:
Tell me, what games recently have you liked?

Just wondering :)
Click to expand...

Sure:
Battlefield 1942
Eve of Destruction
Desert Combat (hey I consider them full games)
Hitman 2
Homeworld 2
CoD
UT2k4
SSB Melee
Gunbound
Halo

(not all full games, some of them were demo's and others I played at friends)

You probably think I'm some pessimist bittered geek in a darkened room giving all games criticism eh? Admit it! :D
I'm just extra critical at Far Cry because it generated such a hype, and didn't live up to it by a longshot imho. The first demo was good, but had a lot of flaws, mainly with the hyped non linearity and AI, but the new map really screwed up my hopes for Far Cry, what a waste of bandwidth.
 
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