There is no Infinity.

[Tseng!]

.3 infinite is going to be .000[infinite]0001 less than 1/3.

Of COURSE there are systems we haven't thought of.

I'm in pre-calculus too, and I'm 2 years younger than you.

There's a hell of a lot more to mathmatics then stat and string theory after calculus.

 

[Dedalus]

No, .3 infinite, does equal 1/3. It simply cannot be expressed.



There could be an incredible amount of systems the human race isn't even aware of.



I'm in pre-calc, what else is left besides statistics and string theory?

let me explain a little about fractions. a fraction is a whole number. it cannot be a decimal value. this is elementary mathematics. i don't know why you keep persisting with 0.3 is a third. like i said it works for some people but if you want to get to the source then no 0.3 is not a third. i don't see how this can go on any further, you're gonna keep on that it is a third and i'm gonna keep on that it isn't. i won't say anything further you'll find out for yourself hopefully.

i don't know what pre-calc means.

 

[Tseng!]

Pre Calc is pre calculus, the class you take before Calculus in high school

 

[Dedalus]

To prove there is an infinity to certain things I will give you a list of things to think about and you try to tell me the answer.

How many thoughts can you think of?
How many choices of text could I have chose to put here?
John Titor could have been something other than human.
The amount of time it will take for Hl2 to be completed.

The possibilites are ENDLESS. The endless amount of possibilites of something is the concept of infinity. OKAY?!

/me sighs and wishes for hl2 to just come out already.

at least someone is thinking of something other than 0.9 = 1...

i like the way this thread slightly ties into the time travel thread.

i think most people have trouble understanding infinity because they keep thinking about time. they think, well if something goes on forever....well...i'll be dead...and it'll just go on...for hundreds of years...man it'll never stop. stop thinking like that! don't look at your watch when thinking of infinity!

 

[Dave]

Won't our heads explode if we try to bring the concept of Octal, Binary, Hexadecimal, etc bases into this too?

Anyhow, I was thinking, you know when people say 'Blah * infinity'?

Isn't that just a redundant statement? 'Blah' would never be multiplied since infinity would never be reached (because it's infinite). Hmm..

 

[Dedalus]

Pre Calc is pre calculus, the class you take before Calculus in high school

oh right you're kids i can understand where you're coming from then, most kids your age haven't been taught that stuff, i'm surprised you picked it up, shows initiative.

 

[Top Secret]

I'm in pre-calculus too, and I'm 2 years younger than you.

Oh, would you like a cookie?

 

[Letters]

I want infinite c00kiez!!!!

 

[clarky003]

lol, trying to wrap our brains comprehensively around infinity is like trying to ride a bike to the moon, 'you just cant do it'... and using numbers to explain it is about as deep as it gets, and well it just doesnt do the concept justice

 

[Direwolf]

Pre Calc is pre calculus, the class you take before Calculus in high school

AHAHAHA! I'm in a more advanced mathematics class, and I'm stupider than all of you! :thumbs:

 

[Prince of China]

0.3 repeating does equal 1/3
Why? It would be 3/9-reduced to 1/3.
So, top secret is correct.
And why 0.9 repeating equals one.

9 x 1/9=9x0.11111...repeating
=0.99999...repeating
=0.9 repeating

9x 1/9 =1
Appearently, you're supposed to divide 0.9 by 9 but won't work 'cause you'll get 0.1. But if you write 0.9 and actually have those infinite nines, then it may work.

 

[Dedalus]

0.3 repeating does equal 1/3
Why? It would be 3/9-reduced to 1/3.
So, top secret is correct.
And why 0.9 repeating equals one.

9 x 1/9=9x0.11111...repeating
=0.99999...repeating
=0.9 repeating

9x 1/9 =1
Appearently, you're supposed to divide 0.9 by 9 but won't work 'cause you'll get 0.1. But if you write 0.9 and actually have those infinite nines, then it may work.

yeah i've said earlier, it is true for all work you do before a certain stage in knowledge. after that you forget what you learnt and learn new stuff. it's like most things in maths. be happy with this method for now, if you carry on with maths you'll find this is not true and you'll find out why. in this case, ignorance is bliss...i know the true answer, it's whether you choose to believe it or not.

 

[Maskirovka]

I want infinite c00kiez!!!!

YESSSS...INFINITE COOKIES

.9 (repeating) is equal to one...though saying it doesn't really do justice to the concepts behind it...i re-read my notes and i'm correcting myself...

the very concept of infinity in this case proves it....an infinite number of 9's are being added to the original .9 so that it's equal to one. the concept does require you to just "get it"...

i found my notes and realized that i was thinking of a different discussion in class relating to infinite series.

 

[Top Secret]

Yeah. .9 repeating is = to 1/1 the same as .3 repeating is = to 1/3

 

[qckbeam]

ok, I'm not quite sure about why .9 would ever end up equaling 1/1. Isn't saying .9 repeating or .3 repeating equals 1/1 or 1/3 an approximation to make computations simpler? In reality wouldn't .9 repeating stretch on for infinity, approaching 1 but never actually hitting it? Please, I?m not exactly ?brushed up? on the specifics regarding the concept of infinity, so bear with me if I am wrong about this whole thing, and I have read through the whole thread.

 

[ApocalypseNow]

I Just thought about it..

If there is Infinite numbers between 0 - 1 (0.0000001,0.00000002 etc..) than there must be infinite numbers between 12:01:00 (o'clock) to 12:01:01...
that way any second replaced by another is actually proving there is a finite to an Infinity.

I thought about it when I read that scientists have measured the shortest period of time ever measured - 100 ato-seconds..

which means:
If we hypothetically stretch time in a way 100 at-seconds lasts for second(in our lives) this way , if we wanted to wait and get 1 second time we had to wait for 300 Million years!!!

:bonce:

Hey, **** YOU

 

[Maskirovka]

ok, I'm not quite sure about why .9 would ever end up equaling 1/1. Isn't saying .9 repeating or .3 repeating equals 1/1 or 1/3 an approximation to make computations simpler? In reality wouldn't .9 repeating stretch on for infinity, approaching 1 but never actually hitting it? Please, I?m not exactly ?brushed up? on the specifics regarding the concept of infinity, so bear with me if I am wrong about this whole thing, and I have read through the whole thread.

see...by saying that there are an infinite number of 9's, it equals 1. you're basically saying that you "hit it" because the 9's never stop. the instant there is a finite number of 9's following the decimal, it is no longer equal to one.

 

[Top Secret]

see...by saying that there are an infinite number of 9's, it equals 1. you're basically saying that you "hit it" because the 9's never stop. the instant there is a finite number of 9's following the decimal, it is no longer equal to one.

Exactly. :smoking:

 

[Lucifer Crass]

TO RE-CAP!!!

There is infinity. Its proven by math and in reality itself. Such as examples of endless concepts and other things. So the Title of this thread is wrong!

:cheers:

 

[Kyle2]

Your theory needs to be reworked just a little bit. It's not that there is no infinity but it's that time is not infinite. You are right, it is impossible to get to the next second if there is infinity in time. But what'll really make your head hurt is that time had to have a start because we wouldn't be where we are today if time was infinite and had no beggining at all. So, where did time come from?

 

[Top Secret]

Your theory needs to be reworked just a little bit. It's not that there is no infinity but it's that time is not infinite. You are right, it is impossible to get to the next second if there is infinity in time. But what'll really make your head hurt is that time had to have a start because we wouldn't be where we are today if time was infinite and had no beggining at all. So, where did time come from?

That's the thing though, time isn't 'always' consistant. Perhaps it IS possible to freeze time. Maybe not.

 

[Kyle2]

That's the thing though, time isn't 'always' consistant. Perhaps it IS possible to freeze time. Maybe not.

One theory of time is that it is movement through the next dimension. As an example take a piece of paper and draw a stick figure on it. We now have a person in the second dimension who can only move up, down, forward, and backward but not side to side. Now if you take the paper and start moving it from side to side he is now moving through a 3rd dimension which does not exist for him. This movement could very well be what we think of as time. In reality it is impossible to view or control another dimension because as we know all things that exist in our dimension our 3 dimensional. Even that guy that you drew on the paper had a little depth to it. Now if you really wanted to go in depth into the different dimmensions you would have to clear your mind of all thoughts and have one hell of an immagination. If you try to put our world in a 2d environment you will very quickly realize that it is impossible for such a world to exist. People could never go around eachother and gravity would be a bitch. So what exists in the 3rd dimension in fact does not exist anywhere else. Which brings up another question, is it possible for a higher dimension to control other dimmensions if they do not follow the normal rules. Back on topic, the only way to freeze time using this theory would be to stop the movement of the third dimension through the fourth dimension. So good luck phoning your friend from the fourth dimension to stop time If any of this is true though another question is what causes us to move through the fourth dimension.

 

[Korgoth]

I don't understand how one would even try to express infninity in numerical form... In order to do so you would have to start, there for you wouldn't be proving infinity. Lets say you told a computer to add + 1 indefinitaly.... It would go:

1+1=2+1=3+1=4+1=5+1= etc.... Now this computer could do this for the rest of existence, and never reach a end... But it would NOT be infinite because it started. In order for infinity to be correct there is no end, but on the same token there is no begining.

Damn it, now i'm confused

 

[Urbanleg]

I don't understand how one would even try to express infninity in numerical form... In order to do so you would have to start, there for you wouldn't be proving infinity. Lets say you told a computer to add + 1 indefinitaly.... It would go:

1+1=2+1=3+1=4+1=5+1= etc.... Now this computer could do this for the rest of existence, and never reach a end... But it would NOT be infinite because it started. In order for infinity to be correct there is no end, but on the same token there is no begining.

Damn it, now i'm confused

Thats not true..

When you Choose to Count all the numbers between 14 to 15 there is a very exact point of beggining and end. the in-between is what Supernal.

 

[Maskirovka]

urbanleg...i don't understand what you're trying to say.

of course out of all the infinite numbers between 14 and 15 there is a middle point...what does that have to do with anything, and how does it prove innervision wrong?

 

[Fat Tony!]

no actually you'd have to represent it as an infinite geometric series... which would apply the concept of infinity. but i think the idea behind summation of infinite geometric series was that, if you want to add a FINITE number of terms, then the formula is S=a(1-r^n)/(1-r) where n=number of terms. and then, if you say, let's let n approach infinity (to try to find the sum of the entire infinite series) then 1-r^n approaches 1, provided that r is less than 1.... so, the formula for the sum of the infinite series comes out as a/(1-r).

Not really, i dont see how my method is wrong.
Oh and 1/3 is not an approximation of 0.whatever the number was..... it is the actual number...

edit- ie 1/3 is one divided by 3 which equals- 0.3..............
i cant see how u cant see that

 

[Direwolf]

His problem is that the equation is the result of truncated and/or rounded numbers used in the calculations. You can't actually calculate ANYTHING using .33333333... because there is not any way to calculate an infinite. Its darned close, but not perfect.

 

[Fat Tony!]

That actually makes a lot of sense to me, but still. 1/3 does equal .333333333 and i can prove it very simply using simple division

 

[Kyle2]

so 1/3 = infinity in a way...

btw maskirovka, picture it likes this. in order to get from 14 to 15 you need to get to 14.1 first. in order to get from 14 to 14.1 you need to get to 14.01 first. in order to get to 14.01 you need to get to 14.001 first. and so on. another example is to make a graph and draw a line between 14 and 15. a line consists of an infinite number of points between those two endpoints.

btw a very simple way to prove that infinity can have a start but no stop is by drawing the graph x^(1/2)

:rolling:

 

[Direwolf]

Infinity in one direction can have a start. But infinity in all directions cannot.

 

[Maskirovka]

i fully understand your explanation, kyle, but i don't understand how that example proved innervision wrong.

Lets say you told a computer to add + 1 indefinitaly.... It would go:

1+1=2+1=3+1=4+1=5+1= etc.... Now this computer could do this for the rest of existence, and never reach a end... But it would NOT be infinite because it started. In order for infinity to be correct there is no end, but on the same token there is no begining.

how does the "infinite number of numbers between 14 and 15" example prove that wrong? that was my question.

innervision was saying that because you started counting, your number was already finite. you had a number you started with, and a number you've gotten to so far...therefore at any point in time, the count is not infinite. therefore infinity is a concept that must trancend time.

i understand that the graph of x^.5 starts and doesn't stop, but a normal graph automatically includes all X values...which means it includes the possibility of infinity. innervision was not talking about an cartesian coordinate graph.

 

[lastandroid]

edit- ie 1/3 is one divided by 3 which equals- 0.3..............
i cant see how u cant see that

I disagree.
0.3+0.3+0.3=0.9. No matter how many times you repeat the numbers the last number will always be 9, so they will never add up to 1 which means it can't be 1/3.
1/3 is really 0.3...33+0.3...33+0.3...34=1 however your calculator can't show that.

How about this:
(Math=true)=false
Since math is not always true (since it's not "real", it's just an observation of what is thought to be true) then the statement must be false. That means that all of you who used math are all wrong. J/k (I love paradoxes).

There are theories, I'm not sure if they were proven, that time slows down around gravity wells (I think thats what it was), so if time is not constant it cannot be a measurement. If you think about it we have only measured time under certain conditions (as in on earth), so we don't know much about it.

About the circle, how do you know where it starts and ends? how do you know it stops or infinitely loops back on itself?

Thinking about this stuff at 5 a.m. (before going to bed) is not a good idea.

 

[Korgoth]

Yeah Maskirovka understands what I was trying to explain... :thumbs:

For infinity to work there would be no midway, or exact middle IMO, so if you started at 1 and counted forever no matter where you were in your count there would be a middle because you STARTED at 1....
Infinity isn't really a concept the human mind can understand though IMO. Simply because to every human there is a start and an end, to everything really.... We are born and we die, we go to school and we graduate etc. etc. But something that is infinite does transcend time as Maskirovka said. Because time is merely something humans invented to show the progress of their life cycle...
Infinity is and was forever, there for no start and no end.... And mathematics, just won't cut it either.

 

[Jackal hit]

actually, what number sets are you talkin about? starting at 1 is the natural #'s ... starting at 0 is the whole numbers... and who the hell starts at either of those. i think the point should be that there is no beginning or end of numbers.

with the fractions and decimals thing... that one dude is correct, the numbers do have to reach an end point for an accurate fraction to be made, otherwise it's an approximation(i'm not talking about whether these are practical applications or not) just take pi or e for example...(maybe i should just say irrational numbers...) they don't end, and have no pattern, so you can't make a fraction, only a fraction that is an approximation. anyways, whatever not important

btw, who ever came up with the idea that black holes had to be singularities? ... blackholes aren't singularities or HOLES... they're just masses(neutron stars of at least 3 solar masses) that collapse past the schwarzchild radius. i think they'd only be singularities if you looked at them 5th dimensionally and noticed the space/time warping(slope of the curvature of space/time). you could maybe say GRAVITATIONAL singularity, not actually PHYSICALLY a singularity.

shit i wasted my 300th post on this?? bahhH!!!

/me spreads ass cheeks to let loose a muddy barrage! :flame:

edit: AND! who ever said time existed? it's just a contrivance of living in our 4 dimensions measuring distance between events. i think ALL time exists now. past present and future are all congruous. hell even physicists are getting semi intelligent now and understanding part of this.

 

[Korgoth]

Yeah thats kind of what I was saying, only black holes are real they live on 5th and martin luther king, reasonable price though, and boy do they know how to work it.

 

[Fat Tony!]

y=tanx there u go u have values up to infinity.

disagree.
0.3+0.3+0.3=0.9. No matter how many times you repeat the numbers the last number will always be 9, so they will never add up to 1 which means it can't be 1/3.
1/3 is really 0.3...33+0.3...33+0.3...34=1 however your calculator can't show that.

How about this:
(Math=true)=false
Since math is not always true (since it's not "real", it's just an observation of what is thought to be true) then the statement must be false. That means that all of you who used math are all wrong. J/k (I love paradoxes).

There are theories, I'm not sure if they were proven, that time slows down around gravity wells (I think thats what it was), so if time is not constant it cannot be a measurement. If you think about it we have only measured time under certain conditions (as in on earth), so we don't know much about it.

About the circle, how do you know where it starts and ends? how do you know it stops or infinitely loops back on itself?

Thinking about this stuff at 5 a.m. (before going to bed) is not a good idea.

Not lets try it: 1/3

1/3 is cannot go so we put 0 down, there is 1 remainder so now we do: 10/3 = 3 with 1 remainder.
so we have so far 0.3 then we do 10/3 again, we got 3 with 1 remainder ....... and this calculation goes on for infinite number of times always finding 3 and gettting a remainder of 1. Therefore we say 0.3 recurring = .3... infinity

 

[Korgoth]

AHA! No not infinity, FOREVER... there is a difference. Somethign that lasts for ever has a begining, something that is infinite has neither a begining nor an end!

 

[Fat Tony!]

Where did you get that definition from?

 

[OCybrManO]

AHA! No not infinity, FOREVER... there is a difference. Somethign that lasts for ever has a begining, something that is infinite has neither a begining nor an end!

There are an infinite number of digits that are 3's in the decimal representation of 1/3.

Infinite, in this case, is a quantity larger than any definable number. Which means that no matter what number you pick (however large you may think it is) your guess is too low.

Something that is infinite can have a finite beginning or end, but not both (in the 14 to 15 case, the end refers to the decimal precision... not the final value of 15).

 

[Crushenator 500]

this thread should be locked, its making my head hurt, im thinking too much /