There won't be a "real" HL2 multiplayer.

[Lukes Wall]

The reason is: It would be impossible to do it right with today's technology.
Remember how CS:s physics aren't very accurate (compared to the actual game)? Now, imagine 32 players using the Manipulator, throwing barrels and stuff like crazy cows. It would be a nightmare for any regular computer to process all that information and then send it to all users! And it's very clear that, if VALVe simply didn't include that gun, they would get criticized beyond reality.
So, what's the logical choice for them? Let a MOD team do it. They won't get (too) criticized, since it's not their "job" to do it completely right, and everybody will be happy.


oh yeah, and so much for a worlwide release. The game still isn't out here in Brazil and they are losing TONS of consumers for the warez.

 

[nagual678]

actually, there isn't any noticeable lag in the "secret" hl2 mp, even with 6/8 people using the manipulator (i have seen this with my own eyes). + i was hosting and i don't have that good upload (equivalent to a 512k)

 

[Lukes Wall]

But it's a small, simple map and, as you said, only 6/8 people.

 

[nagual678]

you do have a point, but with what i've seen, i don't have the slightest idea of why CS:S lags that much with "real physics" objects..
based on the HL2 mp i was mentioning, i can imagine it would lag but not as much as what can be experienced in CS:S

 

[kenyo]

there will to be a real mp... MODS!
and making an online mod for hl2 will be easyer know that we found out about the console commands to make/join games for mp!

infact i saw a mod that made joining/making easyer!

 

[nagual678]

there will to be a real mp... MODS!
and making an online mod for hl2 will be easyer know that we found out about the console commands to make/join games for mp!

infact i saw a mod that made joining/making easyer!

having found that "mp" doesn't help anything, in fact, if you wanted to do a HL2 DM, it would be much easier to start off with CS:S than what we've got..
-no real models and animations
-not even skins !
-no say command
-no real respawn abilities !
-an innumerable list of holes, bugs and incompletenesses (you see what i mean).

what we see in this "mp" is hardly something more than a scratch that (as i said in another thread) god knows why, valve didn't remove from HL2. in other words, nothing viable to start from.

 

[Max Payne]

It seems obvious to me that you don't have much game programming experience. Having programmed two 3D engines so far, I can tell you that this is just totally wrong...

Remember how CS:s physics aren't very accurate (compared to the actual game)?

Its actually the same physics as in Half-Life 2. There is just less stuff to play with, since its a strategy game, whereas Half-Life 2 puts the emphasis on the physics for puzzles and coolness factor.

Now, imagine 32 players using the Manipulator, throwing barrels and stuff like crazy cows. It would be a nightmare for any regular computer to process all that information and then send it to all users!

This is a misconception. Physics get processed on the server at first, and also on the client side for prediction. The only information that gets sent is the position/angles/velocity of the objects involved when they move. This is not really a huge flow of information. Plus, I don't believe you would realistically see 32 people using the zero point field manipulator at the same time. And well, in fact, even if they did, they could hardly manage to have 32 objects in the air at the same time... And 32 objects in the air is still reasonable to process.

So, what's the logical choice for them? Let a MOD team do it. They won't get (too) criticized, since it's not their "job" to do it completely right, and everybody will be happy.

Lets be realistic. Half-Life 1 DM was stupid. If they included it, they might even have been criticized for poor multiplayer. The logical choice was not to waste time making maps and debugging code for something so useless. It won't take long for the fans to make CTF/DM/WWII/etc mods anyhow.

having found that "mp" doesn't help anything, in fact, if you wanted to do a HL2 DM, it would be much easier to start off with CS:S than what we've got..
-no real models and animations
-not even skins !
-no say command
-no real respawn abilities !
-an innumerable list of holes, bugs and incompletenesses (you see what i mean).

I disagree:
1. If you want DM, you're going to need DM maps. So either way, you have to make that.

2. For the models, if they get released at some point with the SDK, we could use those. Or it might be possible to use what already exists in the single player with some slight hacking around. I just wouldn't see the CSS guys in an HL2 DM...

3. The "say" command is a matter of sending text from client to server and then broadcast it back to all clients. This can be programmed in a few minutes.

4. Respawning is a little more complex than chat, but its still simple. You simply need entities to define respawn points, and when the player dies, you remove the weapons, you send him to a random spawn point, and restore his health (or you just create a new player entity, depending on the architecture of the game).

what we see in this "mp" is hardly something more than a scratch that (as i said in another thread) god knows why, valve didn't remove from HL2. in other words, nothing viable to start from.

The "mp" is actually a *feature* of the source engine. It supports client-server connections. This is what CSS uses for its multiplayer. In fact, traditionally in Quake engine derivates, even in single player, you are running a server, with just one client (HL2 is built similarly to HL, which is a Quake derivate). They just didn't bother to code something to prevent you from using the multiplayer mode of the source engine in Half-Life 2.

 

[kenyo]

Lets be realistic. Half-Life 1 DM was stupid. If they included it, they might even have been criticized for poor multiplayer. The logical choice was not to waste time making maps and debugging code for something so useless. It won't take long for the fans to make CTF/DM/WWII/etc mods anyhow.

i agree!
(i'd agree with the other statments you made but i don't know anything about coding!)

 

[skater4evr5]

dude why dont they just do

citizens of city 17 vs. combine in different map styles,and differnet skins for both sides ???

they can even add like 3 more weapons to each side :thumbs:

 

[kenyo]

dude why dont they just do

citizens of city 17 vs. combine in different map styles,and differnet skins for both sides ???

they can even add like 3 more weapons to each side :thumbs:

i'd rather see a co-op mod!
like on sven-co-op II but not as wierd!
sven co-op for hl1 was hella fun! (i just played it yesterday for the first time) but it was also a bit wierd!
i'd like a co-op respawn when you die mod(that also makes enemys harder to kill and do more dam and more enemys to make up for the advantages)

 

[nagual678]

dude why dont they just do

citizens of city 17 vs. combine in different map styles,and differnet skins for both sides ???

that would really make sense, as if, done well, this could be the next CS:S. but unfortunately they didn't do it, i think for release time issues.

on the other hand, they COULD have included a hl2 dm. just a single player model, a "say" command, working respawn, and weapon damage. just let the community do the mapping. it would have been a good compromise, and this time i don't see why they didn't do it, because even if i'm not a coding overlord this would have been a very simple and relatively quick thing to do and they could have kept CS:S..

i'd like a co-op respawn when you die mod(that also makes enemys harder to kill and do more dam and more enemys to make up for the advantages)

i'm sure someone will come up with a way to co-op the game nearly out-of-the-box. i imagine adding spawnpoints in the same way you play in 64 players de_dust2 maps in CS:S without having to redownload the whole thing.

 

[Max Payne]

i'd rather see a co-op mod!
like on sven-co-op II but not as wierd!
sven co-op for hl1 was hella fun! (i just played it yesterday for the first time) but it was also a bit wierd!
i'd like a co-op respawn when you die mod(that also makes enemys harder to kill and do more dam and more enemys to make up for the advantages)

I plan to "hack" a quick coop mod when the *actual* SDK (read, with the source code) comes out. Just have to wait for it. It should hopefully come out along with the next patch if we are lucky. I think within a week I could have a basic coop working where you basically team up in existing maps (like ravenholm) to kill monsters, and we would skip the vehicle maps that can't realistically be easily made coop playable.

 

[nagual678]

I plan to "hack" a quick coop mod when the *actual* SDK (read, with the source code) comes out. Just have to wait for it. It should hopefully come out along with the next patch if we are lucky. I think within a week I could have a basic coop working where you basically team up in existing map to kill people, and we would skip the vehicle maps that can't realistically be easily made coop playable.

do you happen to be able to explain how spawnpoints are added in CS:S maps, and people are able to join without redownloading the map ?

 

[we11er]

Yeah humans vs Combine could be really cool. Imagine if you could have classes like "pilot" where you pilot dropships, striders, or drive buggies as a human... one day maybe!

 

[Max Payne]

do you happen to be able to explain how spawnpoints are added in CS:S maps, and people are able to join without redownloading the map ?

Those are things that can be implemented in multiple ways. But the most obvious approach would be:

1. For the spawn points, you don't "add" any, you just have lots of spawn points available, and you spawn people in the ones that are there. You could also assign priorities to spawn points, so people preferably appear in some when there are less people. Another approach would be to have a "spawn zone" instead of spawn point, and use an algorithm for the computer to fit as many people as possible in the cube of space available. CSS most likely uses the first approach described.

2. For the changes in the map. I would believe that as a client, your machine only loads the level geometry, not the entities. When an entity changes state (like glass getting broken), this gets updated on the server. When you connect, it sends you the state of the current entities (a description of the objects in the game). Most of the map is static data (walls, lightmaps, etc). The entities are not actually that much data to download, but you do download their description (but it never gets written in a file, it remains in memory).

Yeah humans vs Combine could be really cool. Imagine if you could have classes like "pilot" where you pilot dropships, striders, or drive buggies as a human... one day maybe!

That would be an interesting mod to make. It would be similar to Team Fortress in concept, which is "tried and proven". You could make use of vehicles as well.

 

[nagual678]

yeah, CS:S uses spawnpoints. thanks for the info.