Thief 3 !!SPOILERS!!

[dream431ca]

Have any of you who own Thief 3 made it to the orphanege that got turned into an asylum?? That is most increadible and scary experience I have had with a FPS. That place gives my the creeps but....WOW!!

 

[Glo-Boy]

I don't think another video game will scare me like that for many MANY years to come.

 

[dream431ca]

I don't think another video game will scare me like that for many MANY years to come.

Silent hill 4 might.

 

[Glo-Boy]

Well yeah, I forgot about that. When does that come out?

 

[thehunter1320]

Have any of you who own Thief 3 made it to the orphanege that got turned into an asylum?? That is most increadible and scary experience I have had with a FPS. That place gives my the creeps but....WOW!!

i'm never going to get this game because they ruined the series just like deus ex cause of that damned 700 pound x-box (with the old controller)... so explain how it's so scary

 

[Shuzer]

i'm never going to get this game because they ruined the series just like deus ex cause of that damned 700 pound x-box (with the old controller)... so explain how it's so scary

I'm not an experienced Thief player, but from what I've heard the game is a good sequel and stays true to the Thief style gameplay, storytelling, etc.

 

[Zapp$ter]

Have any of you who own Thief 3 made it to the orphanege that got turned into an asylum?? That is most increadible and scary experience I have had with a FPS. That place gives my the creeps but....WOW!!

The Shalebridge Cradle is definitely a very scary level. When I was headed up to the attic, I think that was the scariest bit with that *weird sound*, you should know what I'm talking about

Some people on the Ionstorm forums and ttlg forums say that this level is scarier than Return to the Cathedral from The Dark Project. I'd probably be agree with them as well. Definitely is a very atmospheric level, one of the best in the game.

@ thehunter1320: It's a much better sequel to the Thief series than DX:IW was to DX. A much better game. If you're not going to get it for whatever reason, you're definitely missing out.

 

[Seppo]

If Thief III is so scary, imagine the possibilities with Doom III. I sure hope D3 will scare me, and I don't doubt it: I was shit scared when I played Quake 2

 

[thehunter1320]

@ thehunter1320: It's a much better sequel to the Thief series than DX:IW was to DX. A much better game. If you're not going to get it for whatever reason, you're definitely missing out.

hmm... same crappy graphics as DX:IW... same crappy controls as DX:IW... ... same crappy engine as DX:IW... ... same crappy blooming as DX:IW... ... same crappy character models as DX:IW... ... need I go on?

give me 5 good reasons to play this game and i will indeed pick it up

 

[Neutrino]

hmm... same crappy graphics as DX:IW... same crappy controls as DX:IW... ... same crappy engine as DX:IW... ... same crappy blooming as DX:IW... ... same crappy character models as DX:IW... ... need I go on?

give me 5 good reasons to play this game and i will indeed pick it up

I had my doubts too, but I ended up really liking the game. Here's a review I wrote on it a while back if your interested.

(The "good" and "superb" was in reference to a poll on the Eidos forum about what people thought about T: DS. The options were: Superb, good, medicore, and abysmal.)

I voted "good". I wish I could vote superb as I really enjoyed the game, but I just can't. The gameplay was excellent and the story was great and the level artwork was quite good, especially the cradle levels. These things made the game a ton of fun to play and I really enjoyed it. However, I'm interested in and a part of the "modding" scene for video games. I am currently trying to create my own mod for Doom 3 when it comes out. Thus I tend to look at games from a more technical aspect and I'm afraid that while the game of Thief: DS was great, the engine and other aspects fell far short in my opinion. Here's my own pros and cons list:

Pros:

-> Excellent gameplay, very fun. The Stealth Genre is relatively new and this is a great example of just how fun this type of game can be.

-> Wonderful story. It was very well thought out and very immersive. All throughout the game it increased in intesity so I never wanted to put it down.

-> Fantasitc sound effects. Both great music as well as ambient effects. Really added to the overall atmosphere of the levels.

-> Good overall immersion in the game world

-> Good (and in the case of the cradle levels, great) level artwork and design. Quite detailed geometry work. All the levels stayed true to the story and were all very consistent. The level design was quite good too, and in the case of the cradle level was very ingenious.

-> Decent dynamic lighting system. Although I thought this aspect could have been used even more in-game, it wasn't bad at all and I don't have any complaints about it.

-> Very good implementation of normal maps for texture detail. Without this I think the textures would have looked pretty plain and boring, but since it seemed that almost all textures used this technique it really helped give the levels a better feel and more realistic atmosphere.

-> Good texture art, both on models and map geometry. Not much to say, other than
the texture artists did quite a good job.

-> For the most part quite good voice acting. A few of the NPC's had really annoying voices and lines, but for the most part I liked the voice acting very well. Garret's voice, in particular, was very well done.

-> Good AI for the most part. Very good in some respects. The AI's interaction with the player was very good. The fact that it noticed almost everything and would respond with some action was very nice. It could still be improved though, specifically in the area of path finding. (Very specifically in the area of path finding around physics objects.)

Cons:

-> Small maps (too many loads in between sections) I can stand this in the missions, but in the city it is annoying as heck and should be unecessary even with a dyanic lighting system.

-> Bad texture resolution (and yes I had low texture detail off)

-> Ok animations. Could have been better, especially the standard walking animation. The other actions were alright, but the default walking animation was way too stiff. Did not look like a real person walking at all.Also need to work on lip synching. I've seen equivalent or better lip synching in Half-Life one, 6 years ago.

-> Poor character modeling. Sorry but the characters were not that well done in my opinion. More research needs to be done into correct anatomy, particularly for the women. Other NPC models weren't that great either. I realize that there are polygon limitations, but come on, the rats looked like they were maybe 20 or 30 poly's. They looked more like walking polygons than an animal. Also the cats were just bad and poorly animated. The end creature, won't name as I don't wish to spoil it, was alright, but from an artistic point of view could have been done better I thought. Oh and last is the player model. I understand the need for it to be low poly but please learn some basic anatomy. To show you what I mean look at his arms and shoulders in particular while climbing. It just looks bad.

-> No specular mapping. Well, I think I saw one instance of this in the museum floor, although that didn't really look like a spec map, but other than that nothing. I realize that spec maps can be easily overdone, but a moderate use of them can really bring a texture to life.

-> Bad cut scenes. This I really didn't understand. If your going to bother building pre-rendered cut scenes there should be no in-game limits. (I assume they were pre-rendered and not recorded in game as there were different higher poly models built for them) So if one goes to the trouble to create seperate models for out of game cut scenes why do I still see poly's? For instance on garrets hood. Or no hair modeling for example. If your going to have cut scenes they should be GOOD. I've seen better cut scenes in games that are 5 years old. Take a look at the latest Everquest II trailer. Now THAT is what a pre-rendered cut scene should look like with todays tech. I actually have a feeling that these may have been done in-game somehow with different models and other effects added later as a way to cut corners, but I'm not sure.

-> Poor implementation of physics. This is just ridiculous. This game uses the Havok engine, the engine that powers the physics of such games like
Max Payne 2, Pain Killer, and Half-Life 2. All these games seem to have no problem with the physics system and demonstrate a high quality use of both standard physics objects as well as ragdolls. Yet Thief: DS somehow managed to rewrite some of the physics engine to actually make it worse. I fail to understand how that was even managed. Take a look at online demos of what Havok is capable of on their website or look at any of the games I mentioned to see what I mean.

-> Not to great player movement and interactions. This isn't too bad but things like picking up bodies and moving them wasn't done too well. Splinter cell did this kind of thing much better. Also the fact that the player model apparently clips into walls and corners and becomes stuck on them is not too great either. Lastly, when the player hugs a wall the AI does not see him, even if they run into him and become stuck on him.

-> Either what I assume is poor final optimisation, just a badly written game engine, or a side effect from it being a consolized game. By this I mean that it should run much, much better than it does on today's computer system. There is nothing graphics wise in Thief: DS that justifies such poor performance on mid range to high end systems.

-> A relatively small thing, is the water. All I ever saw really was a slightly transparent brush. Ever heard of pixel shaders? Take a look at Half-Life 2's and Farcry's water. These are examples of what shaders can do for you. I thought that perhaps shaders were not used to lower the required system specs(though I don't think that it actually would, I'm not entirely clear on this point), but I do not see how this can be as I don't think it would have such an effect and Farcry used them just fine.

-> Last, is what I can only assume is a severe lack of beta testing. I say this because of things like bad performance on ATI cards, lighting errors with the latest drivers, and overall a very varied performance on different systems. Or perhaps there was beta testing and these things just couldn't be fixed due to the engine or other reason.

Even after listing everything above, I have to say that I loved this game. I was glued to my computer for 20+ hours playing it and enjoyed every minute of it. Good gameplay can really make up for a lot. However, if some of these things were fixed I think it would take the game from "good" to "superb" or even beyond that. I'm just saying that for me personally a lot of these things really stood out and took away from the immersion in the game. I think that perhaps quite a bit of this is due to a poor game engine, though I of course can't know what are engine limitations and what are x-box compromises. Though even the excuse of porting it to an X-box doesn't hold much water anymore after seeing that Doom 3 will be able to run on it too.

Basically I think that if the same story and gameplay and level designs could have been put on the Doom 3 engine we could have had a truly spectactular game. Something that would have pushed the level of gaming to a new high. But using the current engine it remains just a good game. Quite good, and very fun, I admit, but still not spectacular.

Well, sorry to write such a long post, but I just felt like writing down everything I thought was both good and bad about the game and its engine.

As a final rating I would rate the game overall as a 8.0 out of 10. But to be more fair and accurate I'll break it down into 4 categories:

Gameplay: 9.9/10
Level art and design plus texture art: 9.0/10
General game art including models, sprites, and other effects: 5.0/10
Game engine:4.5/10

About the Cradle mission; that was one of the greatest game levels of all time in my opinion. I absolutely loved it, even though it scared the crap out of me.

 

[thehunter1320]

I had my doubts too, but I ended up really liking the game. Here's a review I wrote on it a while back if your interested.

(The "good" and "superb" was in reference to a poll on the Eidos forum about what people thought about T: DS. The options were: Superb, good, medicore, and abysmal.)




About the Cradle mission; that was one of the greatest game levels of all time in my opinion. I absolutely loved it, even though it scared the crap out of me.

thanks... but the cons certainly outweigh the pros

 

[Glo-Boy]

The cradle is a haunted orphanage turned into an insane asylum - for anyone who doesn't know.

 

[Dedalus]

i bought the game this morning, installed it and i've been playing for a good few hours. it's not as bad as i was expecting, but in most respects it's as crap as i anticipated. yes it stays pretty much true to the original two installments. there are just millions of small things that add up to leave a sour taste in the mouth. i'll play it to the end, then file it in the 'never to be touched again' section of my games collection.

a bit better from IS, but seriously, i really don't want to see what they're planning on doing with System Shock 3, if they're working on it that is...

 

[Interitus]

hmm... same crappy graphics as DX:IW... same crappy controls as DX:IW... ... same crappy engine as DX:IW... ... same crappy blooming as DX:IW... ... same crappy character models as DX:IW... ... need I go on?

give me 5 good reasons to play this game and i will indeed pick it up

The graphics are a bit better. The controls are limited to keyboard and mouse, and it does handle differently. The Blooming can be turned off, same as DX:IW.
Yeah the models are a bit static, but they still look good.
Stop being such a ****ing nitpick and enjoy the game. Its an awesome game.

 

[dream431ca]

Well yeah, I forgot about that. When does that come out?

Silent hill 4 should arrive in North america, probably in fall. You should find this game much more scarier than that level on thief....I hope; cause silent hill 1 almost gave me a stroke.

 

[jonbob]

It happened to me when I was picking a lock and I saw a shadow on the door that wasn't mine. This is why lighting is important. Scared the shit out of me that did.