this whole "cheating" thing....

[Shad0hawK]

personally, i thought this was old news, but since so many ATI fanboys seem to have a condition called "selective amnesia" here is your reminder, and for those that take the "moral high road" and say they would "NEVER" buy a card from a company that "cheats on benchmarks", you may now STFU and buy a matrox.

of course the ATI fanboys dont like talking about this... they try to downplay it because of only a 1.9%-3% improvement, since ATI cannot seem to write a stable driver it would only make sense they would suck at "cheating" too! ROFL!!! but hey "cheating" is cheating"...another thing to consider is a 1.9% to 3% improvement in the triple digit fps range can make the difference between beating the competition and losing to them... do the math and see for yourself! what is the percentage difference between 150 and 154.5 is, scores are often that close.

personally i think the code for all benchmarking programs should be opensourced, it would be indicitive of who could optimize thier respective cards for games better, and whoever loses would not have the option to bitch and complain about "cheating" and use it as an excuse.

the way i see it they both wrote optimizations (AKA "cheated") i say more power to both of them...since they both did thier optimizations on code that was not open sourced, the ethical issue arisees from that. if either/both companies altered code i had copyrighted, i probobly would not be to happy especially considering i would let both of them do it if they had but asked.

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/radeonquack/default.asp

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1105259,00.asp?kc=ETNKT0209KTX1K0100361

 

[Ridic]

you know, not even botherign to read your post, im just going to say this....ATI's current cards are better than nvidias current cards...i dont know how many forum arguments there has to be to prove this, but everyone of the "ati vs nvidia" threads...ati wins...see its been proven over and over again that the 9800 pro is a little bit better than the 5900 ultra. if you dont believe me then flame this post and start another "ati vs nvidia" threads. i have a ti 4200 right now, but thats not a current card so i cant say much about it.

and nvidia did cheat on benchmarks, weather they did once or are still doing it...i dont care, because what it comes down to is which card is really better, not which card gets 3 more fps. and i think enough ppl here have prooved that at this point in time ati is ahead of nvidia.

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by Shad0hawK
personally, i thought this was old news, but since so many ATI fanboys seem to have a condition called "selective amnesia" here is your reminder, and for those that take the "moral high road" and say they would "NEVER" buy a card from a company that "cheats on benchmarks", you may now STFU and buy a matrox.

of course the ATI fanboys dont like talking about this... they try to downplay it because of only a 1.9%-3% improvement, since ATI cannot seem to write a stable driver it would only make sense they would suck at "cheating" too! ROFL!!! but hey "cheating" is cheating"...another thing to consider is a 1.9% to 3% improvement in the triple digit fps range can make the difference between beating the competition and losing to them... do the math and see for yourself! what is the percentage difference between 150 and 154.5 is, scores are often that close.

personally i think the code for all benchmarking programs should be opensourced, it would be indicitive of who could optimize thier respective cards for games better, and whoever loses would not have the option to bitch and complain about "cheating" and use it as an excuse.

the way i see it they both wrote optimizations (AKA "cheated") i say more power to both of them...since they both did thier optimizations on code that was not open sourced, the ethical issue arisees from that. if either/both companies altered code i had copyrighted, i probobly would not be to happy especially considering i would let both of them do it if they had but asked.

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/radeonquack/default.asp

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1105259,00.asp?kc=ETNKT0209KTX1K0100361

quack was years ago, ati admitted it and it was removed, the more recent thing with the shader optimization in 3dmark is just that, an optimization, it outputs the same visuals, therefore it's not a cheat, whereas dear nvidia, well they seem to think people dont want to use trilinear filtering, so they take it upon themselves and turn it off, and theres the "optimizations" in splinter cell that degrade the visuals, and then theres the ut2003 "optimizations" which lower visual quality as well..etc..etc.

and then theres the pixel shader 2.0 issue with nvidias dx9 cards, i seriously don't see how you can trust nvidia, or what to own one of their dx9 cards at this point.

[edit]

BTW, i own and nvidia card.

 

[SidewinderX]

My personally opinion is that it's a fluke. ATi got lucky and managed to write a driver that supported more than one game for more than 5 minutes at a time. It will pass.

 

[Doobz]

since ATI cannot seem to write a stable driver

dude, i dunno what the **** you're talking about, i'm running a 9800 and it's going rock solid

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by [Hunter]Ridic
you know, not even botherign to read your post, im just going to say this....

after reading that first sentence why should i take you seriously? are you afraid of being proved wrong by FACTS and simply agree with what "most other people think"?

how sad.

i am an open minded person who forms an opinion AFTER taking in all the facts i can gather, mostly by firsthand experience, after reading the reviews of reputable well known sites and working with both cards myself, the EVIDENCE shows me the 5900 is the superior card.


how is ATI's cards better when they have the driver/stability issues that nvidia's cards do not have?

how is ATI better when Nvidia outperforms them?

how is ATI better when to play many games a patch has to be installed just for the bloody ATI card?

why should i take nvidia to task for "cheating" when ATI did too?

 

[reever2]

Originally posted by SidewinderX143
My personally opinion is that it's a fluke. ATi got lucky and managed to write a driver that supported more than one game for more than 5 minutes at a time. It will pass.

Flukes dont last for months....

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by SidewinderX143
My personally opinion is that it's a fluke. ATi got lucky and managed to write a driver that supported more than one game for more than 5 minutes at a time. It will pass.

you dont think the fact that they aquired ArtX has anything to do with their hardware and drivers quality increasing?

you seem like king of nvidia fanboys, i mean c`mon, youve gotta admit ati has come A LONG way with their drivers and hardware, and i dont see the quality decreasing anytime soon, only rising.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by Doobz
dude, i dunno what the **** you're talking about, i'm running a 9800 and it's going rock solid

then maybe you can explain why codecreatures runs great in 1600X1200 on all the nvidia cards where i work but the 9800 pro will not run it.

while your at it perhaps you can enlighten me as to why i get the same results on many unreal1 based games.

 

[Ridic]

Originally posted by Shad0hawK
after reading that first sentence why should i take you seriously? are you afraid of being proved wrong by FACTS and simply agree with what "most other people think"?

how sad.

i am an open minded person who forms an opinion AFTER taking in all the facts i can gather, mostly by firsthand experience, after reading the reviews of reputable well known sites and working with both cards myself, the EVIDENCE shows me the 5900 is the superior card.


how is ATI's cards better when they have the driver/stability issues that nvidia's cards do not have?

how is ATI better when Nvidia outperforms them?

how is ATI better when to play many games a patch has to be installed just for the bloody ATI card?

why should i take nvidia to task for "cheating" when ATI did too?

dude i told you not to argue, you will just be proven wrong, though i still didnt read your whole post, since i dont really think its necessary.

 

[Doobz]

try a reformat, i'm running all unreal games at 1600x1200 4x FSAA and 16x Ansio at a constant of about 70 fps

 

[reever2]

Originally posted by Shad0hawK

how is ATI's cards better when they have the driver/stability issues that nvidia's cards do not have?

How about citing some specific issues? I have a 9700 pro and have never ran into any problems with any of my games since i got it

how is ATI better when Nvidia outperforms them?

Because the visual output looks better on Ati cards, if every review site would try to make the visual output as close as possible, ati wins

how is ATI better when to play many games a patch has to be installed just for the bloody ATI card?

Please, be specific and give examples if yu want people to read your posts

why should i take nvidia to task for "cheating" when ATI did too?

Because Nvidia cheats at the loss of visual quality for a much more inflated benchmark score, even if the loss of quality is minimal and can only be seen under 10000x zoom it doesnt matter, small graphical effects can have BIG effects on benchmark score. In games this may not matter, but in benchmarks it sure as hell does

 

[reever2]

Originally posted by Shad0hawK
then maybe you can explain why codecreatures runs great in 1600X1200 on all the nvidia cards where i work but the 9800 pro will not run it.

while your at it perhaps you can enlighten me as to why i get the same results on many unreal1 based games.

jesus christ its a benchmark, "you cant play a benchmark" as many of your kind say.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Xtasy0
quack was years ago, ati admitted it and it was removed, the more recent thing with the shader optimization in 3dmark is just that, an optimization,
BTW, i own and nvidia card.

so when ATI changes copyrighted code it is an "optimization" but when nvidia changes copyrighted code it is "cheating" ROFL!!!

here is the million dollar question, futuremark called what ATI did "cheating" how come you cant? all i see is weak justification.


as far as quake3 goes are you willing to stand by as you put is "done years ago"? was it really "years"? ROFL!!! going by that can we then says ATI has been cheating for "years" LOL!!

 

[reever2]

Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Shad0hawK
so when ATI changes copyrighted code it is an "optimization" but when nvidia changes copyrighted code it is "cheating" ROFL!!!

here is the million dollar question, futuremark called what ATI did "cheating" how come you cant? all i see is weak justification.


as far as quake3 goes are you willing to stand by as you put is "done years ago"? was it really "years"? ROFL!!! going by that can we then says ATI has been cheating for "years" LOL!!

OMG. ROLF. LOL!!. OOOLLOLLOLO!!!! ROTMFLRLAMOALAOAO

Thanks, i was wondering how old you were.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by reever2
jesus christ its a benchmark, "you cant play a benchmark" as many of your kind say.

just as i thought, a non-answer.


...while your at it perhaps you can enlighten me as to why i get the same results on many unreal1 based games.


here is another question:

how come no game company has ever had to release a patch just to get a nvidia card to work?

 

[Doobz]

CITE SOME SPECIFIC EXAMPLES

you keep bringing that point up, that games have to release ATI specific patches, yet you haven't pointed to one example

i have not encountered any of what you claim to be faults of ATI cards, and in fact run at good, high resolutions with superb image quality

 

[Xtasy0]

Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Shad0hawK
so when ATI changes copyrighted code it is an "optimization" but when nvidia changes copyrighted code it is "cheating" ROFL!!!

here is the million dollar question, futuremark called what ATI did "cheating" how come you cant? all i see is weak justification.


as far as quake3 goes are you willing to stand by as you put is "done years ago"? was it really "years"? ROFL!!! going by that can we then says ATI has been cheating for "years" LOL!!

futuremark also released a seven page audit saying that nvidia cheated as well, i dont see your point? i'll agree with john carmack, if it optimizes the code and runs faster without losing visual quality then it's simply and optimization and it's O.K. , if the IQ is lowered then it's a cheat.

copyrighted code huh? i dont agree that pixel shaders are "copyrighted code" also they're changed in memory at runtime, they're not changed on the drive.

and yes im fairly certain it was "years" ago, the 9700 has been out for about a year, and quite awhile before that was when the quack issue happened, so yes, "years" ago, again i fail to see your point? the cheat was removed quickly back then.


P.S. i think you're "WTF OMG ROFL LAWLZ" key is defective.

[edit]

no offense, but you sound like a trolling aol'er.

 

[SidewinderX]

Originally posted by Xtasy0
you dont think the fact that they aquired ArtX has anything to do with their hardware and drivers quality increasing?

you seem like king of nvidia fanboys, i mean c`mon, youve gotta admit ati has come A LONG way with their drivers and hardware, and i dont see the quality decreasing anytime soon, only rising.

No shadohawk is the king of fanboys. I wouldn't consider my self a fanboy under any instance, I'm actuallyi looking at a 9500 PRO right now.


I will admit that ATi Has come a long, long way with thier drivers. However there were still some compatability issues (MGS2:S etc.)
But am the kind of perosn who looks towords the history of the company. Historiclly, ATi hasn't been so good with drivers and such.


that's all i'm saying.

 

[Doobz]

a company's history of driver quality has no effect on the current quality of drivers

 

[Ridic]

crap i need to get one of those 1337 h4x0r keyboards that have the ROFLLAM OFZGDOH LMAFO sdg ROWR buttons. "damn, i always wanted to be a forum troll and act like a 9 year old with my insufficient reading and writing skills." "I cant speak like a human being, so i might as well make up my own words...and better yet i can use CAPS!!!!!! I WIN MUAHAHAHR ROFLLAOM FINEG"

 

[Shad0hawK]

Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by reever2
OMG. ROLF. LOL!!. OOOLLOLLOLO!!!! ROTMFLRLAMOALAOAO

Thanks, i was wondering how old you were.

old enough to sift through BS and know you really did not address the issue

the quake3 thing was just over 2 years ago the 3dmark03 issue was 3 months ago, it is a very logical assumption to make that they had been "cheating" the whole time between....



i also see no one is commenting on the fine work hardOCP did in showing the IQ difference between the 5900u and the 9800 pro is so small as to be non-existant, in some things the ATI looks slightly better, in others the nvidia card looks better still in other there is no discernable difference, instead people would rather make sophomoric comments and THEN ask me how old I am! ROFL!!!

i suppose it is safer for them to hang onto old facts rather than deal with the new...

as far as formatting, that was done yesterday, i suppose we may have to RMA the card, something we have never had to do with an nvidia based card BTW...

i am going to watch a movie with my daughter...

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by SidewinderX143
No shadohawk is the king of fanboys. I wouldn't consider my self a fanboy under any instance, I'm actuallyi looking at a 9500 PRO right now.


I will admit that ATi Has come a long, long way with thier drivers. However there were still some compatability issues (MGS2:S etc.)
But am the kind of perosn who looks towords the history of the company. Historiclly, ATi hasn't been so good with drivers and such.


that's all i'm saying.

as a matter of personal interest, what other games had issues, besides MGS2?

 

[Doobz]

dude, your fanboyism blinds you to seeing things objectively

you speak of responding with an open mind yet you yourself keep yours closed, hanging on to your blind belief that Nvidia's reign over the GPU throne is absolute

get off it

you still have given no proof or examples of ATI's faults, such as unstable drivers, when I and several others are providing first hand accounts otherwise

 

[reever2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Shad0hawK

i also see no one is commenting on the fine work hardOCP did in showing the IQ difference between the 5900u and the 9800 pro is so small as to be non-existant, in some things the ATI looks slightly better, in others the nvidia card looks better still in other there is no discernable difference, instead people would rather make sophomoric comments and THEN ask me how old I am! ROFL!!

i suppose it is safer for them to hang onto old facts rather than deal with the new...

i am going to watch a movie with my daughter...

Durr nobody is commenting on it because you can find comments on it ON ANY OTHER INTERNET MESSAGEBOARD. When given facts about why their review was wrong and how it was a best case scenario for nvidia, they deleted the posts, i would not call that confidence that what you are doing is right, more like sweeping it under the carpet.

And speaking of old facts, why dont you go on and on about quack, oh wait youre a hypocrite, nevermind

Ooh and oyu say you have a duaghter too. you know what I have to say about that? ROTLFMALROLAOAL OMG OOLOLLO

 

[Shad0hawK]

Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Xtasy0
futuremark also released a seven page audit saying that nvidia cheated as well, i dont see your point? i'll agree with john carmack, if it optimizes the code and runs faster without losing visual quality then it's simply and optimization and it's O.K. , if the IQ is lowered then it's a cheat.

i understand nvidia "cheated" in fact if i memory serves i also mentioned that in the original post, that is not the issue. the issue is all the ATI fanboys on thier highhorse saying "we woul'nt buy nvidia they cheat" while they hypocritically ignore the fact ATI did the same thing.

i agree with futuremark, both companies altered copyrighted code that niether of them had the right to alter.

as far as john carmack goes, last i heard he was none to happy with ATI for leaking the doom3 demo...could you perhaps remind us how HE felt about HIS "copyrighted code!!


as far as whoever it was accusing me of making up words, get an education, or at least a dictionary!9i suppose now i will have to start captializing and such now! LOL!!)

if it makes you feel better about yourself to call me names go ahead...i am not going to get in the way of people feeling better about themselves!

 

[Xtasy0]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Shad0hawK
old enough to sift through BS and know you really did not address the issue

the quake3 thing was just over 2 years ago the 3dmark03 issue was 3 months ago, it is a very logical assumption to make that they had been "cheating" the whole time between....



i also see no one is commenting on the fine work hardOCP did in showing the IQ difference between the 5900u and the 9800 pro is so small as to be non-existant, in some things the ATI looks slightly better, in others the nvidia card looks better still in other there is no discernable difference, instead people would rather make sophomoric comments and THEN ask me how old I am! ROFL!!!

i suppose it is safer for them to hang onto old facts rather than deal with the new...

as far as formatting, that was done yesterday, i suppose we may have to RMA the card, something we have never had to do with an nvidia based card BTW...

i am going to watch a movie with my daughter...

at the computer shop i worked at we dealt almost exclusively with nvidia cards, and had to RMA a fair deal of them, what does that have to do with anything? so you need to rma one ati card, ive rma'd like double digits worth of nvidia card, were you trying to give nvidia another made up pro over ati?

i dont think assuming they were cheating all the way along is logical. wouldn't some of the other cheats have been found by now? other than the one optimization in 3dmark03, what cheating would they have been doing for the 21 months (3dmark03 hasn't been around since the quack issue obviously)? i guess that negates your idea that ati sucks at cheating as well as sucking at making drivers huh? way to shoot yourself in the foot bud.

since ATI cannot seem to write a stable driver it would only make sense they would suck at "cheating" too! ROFL!!!

i'm sure if they sucked at cheating the other "cheats" would have been uncovered.

 

[Doobz]

yet you continue to provide evidence of ATI's faults, ignoring all requests to do so...

 

[reever2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Shad0hawK

as far as john carmack goes, last i heard he was none to happy with ATI for leaking the doom3 demo...could you perhaps remind us how HE felt about HIS "copyrighted code!!

Uh wtf are you talking about? There was no proof that anybody from or affiliated with ATi leaked the demo, and i dont remember any sort of reaction from john carmack with him being pissed/suing over anything

 

[Shad0hawK]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by reever2
Durr nobody is commenting on it because you can find comments on it ON ANY OTHER INTERNET MESSAGEBOARD. When given facts about why their review was wrong and how it was a best case scenario for nvidia, they deleted the posts, i would not call that confidence that what you are doing is right, more like sweeping it under the carpet.

that sounds like a serious amount of BS, if you had bothered to actually READ the review the results were duplicated not once but twice. with an open request to ATI to back themselves up...which they never did. so how is it you claim: "When given facts about why their review was wrong and how it was a best case scenario for nvidia" when in fact NO evidence has been presented showing otherwise? your up here BS'ing is what it seems to amount to.


so that leaves us with ATI fanboys ranting about an IQ advantage that does not exist anymore...old news.

 

[Xtasy0]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Shad0hawK
i understand nvidia "cheated" in fact if i memory serves i also mentioned that in the original post, that is not the issue. the issue is all the ATI fanboys on thier highhorse saying "we woul'nt buy nvidia they cheat" while they hypocritically ignore the fact ATI did the same thing.

i agree with futuremark, both companies altered copyrighted code that niether of them had the right to alter.

as far as john carmack goes, last i heard he was none to happy with ATI for leaking the doom3 demo...could you perhaps remind us how HE felt about HIS "copyrighted code!!


as far as whoever it was accusing me of making up words, get an education, or at least a dictionary!9i suppose now i will have to start captializing and such now! LOL!!)

if it makes you feel better about yourself to call me names go ahead...i am not going to get in the way of people feeling better about themselves!

anything you heard about john carmacks internal memo regarding ati leaking doom 3 is false, that memo was a hoax, he hasnt said publicly who leaked it, about the only thing he said was on slashdot, and it didn't place blame anywhere, so you're again, assuming ATI leaked it, and you know what happens when you make assumptions right?

 

[reever2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Shad0hawK
that sounds like a serious amount of BS, if you had bothered to actually READ the review the results were duplicated not once but twice. with an open request to ATI to back themselves up...which they never did.

so that leaves us with ATI fanboys ranting about an IQ advantage that does not exist anymore...old news.

Seriously, go on Beyond3d's messageboards and read their post about the filtering, thier results and pictures were the exact polar opposites of any of the pictures hardocp shown. And speaking of making request to hardware companies, what about the open request....no open PLEA to nvidia to STOP cheating in their drivers? Looks like they followed their advice....

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6719&start=0

And werent you "watching a video with your duaghter"?

 

[Miasma]

Ah Shad0hawK, you remind me of my 13 year old brother.

Boy, all this pro-nVidia shit you are placing in our faces and prancing around saying you are right makes you mature. Guess what? I just bought a ATI Radeon 9800 Pro with my new computer! Muahahaha! You can't stop me! No one can!

Until I see reviews that say "nVidia has started making a decent card" I will not buy nVidia. It seems every time nVidia comes out with what looks like a decent new product, they come across a problem (5900u and HL2 anyone?)

 

[Xtasy0]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by reever2
And werent you "watching a video with your duaghter"?

psst, he only said that stuff about a movie with his daughter so we would think he has a life and is older than 13/14.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by reever2
Uh wtf are you talking about? There was no proof that anybody from or affiliated with ATi leaked the demo, and i dont remember any sort of reaction from john carmack with him being pissed/suing over anything

what rock have you been under? also i did not mention suing, please react to what i actually DO say. and he WAS upset about it.

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002Nov/bga20021105017157.htm

http://www.geocities.com/doom3_central/alpha.html

 

[Shad0hawK]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Xtasy0
psst, he only said that stuff about a movie with his daughter so we would think he has a life and is older than 13/14.

actually i am gone to do so now. but hey like i said earlier, believe whatever makes you feel better about yourself i suppose you do not see the irony in what you said? probobly not...

goodnight!

 

[reever2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Shad0hawK
what rock have you been under? also i did not mention suing, please react to what i actually DO say. and he WAS upset about it.

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002Nov/bga20021105017157.htm

http://www.geocities.com/doom3_central/alpha.html

Yes, all you need is an inquirer article, "some guy" in an IRC chatroom (most likely a Warez chatroom, yeah they are reliable) and some crapy geoshitties website and you have the truth! Nothing can change your opinions now!

 

[SidewinderX]

Until I see reviews that say "nVidia has started making a decent card" I will not buy nVidia.

Wow, is this your first foray into graphic cards? All nVidia, up until the FX series, di was make qality cards. Untill the 9x00 series of cards, ATi sucked the hairy one. They new cards are amazing and very good, but you have no basis saying "until nVidia stats making a decent card." Also, I consider the 5600Ulttra and the 5900 Ultra extemely good cards, if not as good as thier ATi counter parts.


Al;so, there is noe proof or evidence that ATi leaked the demo, other than a forged memo by John Carmack.

This was the original report.
"AN INTERNAL MEMO from John Carmack, the creator of the Doom series of games, blames Canadian graphics company ATI for leaking the alpha of Doom III.
In a memo to his employees, leaked on the Internal Memos site, he said: "ATI is more likely to be responsible than ever before. One employee from the company has been fired and the situation has been taken care of."

This was found out later.
A MEMO PURPORTING to be from John Carmack at ID software which was posted on web site Internal Memos is a hoax, according to Jim Dose, who works at the firm.
In a post on the Evil Avatar site, Dose says: "This is a hoax. John never sent any memo out and if he had, no one here would be sharing it because they'd be out of a job so fast it wouldn't be funny. It's not like we have 500 employees and couldn't trace where something like that would come from."

 

[Xtasy0]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: this whole "cheating" thing....

Originally posted by Shad0hawK
what rock have you been under? also i did not mention suing, please react to what i actually DO say. and he WAS upset about it.

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002Nov/bga20021105017157.htm

http://www.geocities.com/doom3_central/alpha.html

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7083

ID software says Carmack Doom memo a hoax

Doomsgate lumbers on

By INQUIRER staff: Tuesday 07 January 2003, 14:21
A MEMO PURPORTING to be from John Carmack at ID software which was posted on web site Internal Memos is a hoax, according to Jim Dose, who works at the firm.

In a post on the Evil Avatar site, Dose says: "This is a hoax. John never sent any memo out and if he had, no one here would be sharing it because they'd be out of a job so fast it wouldn't be funny. It's not like we have 500 employees and couldn't trace where something like that would come from."

Scary stuff, eh. If anyone does leak information from iD Software in the future, such as the alpha of Doom III which was leaked, we'd be very wary about how you do it.

Dose adds that Carmack would not be the person who would send out such a memo, nor would he handle any such investigation. He doesn't elaborate further.

Internal Memos is a site set up by Phil Kaplan, who also runs the now infamous Fsked Company web site.

So who did leak the alpha version of Doom III? Jim Dose doesn't say, in the thread which starts here. Which means Doomsgate is lumbering on...

can you post any reliable sources that say ati leaked it? oh, no? thats too bad.

BTW the inq article that says ati did leak it is dated two months earlier, than the article i just linked to/pasted.

 

[SidewinderX]

heh, i beat you to it.