Tiananmen square

[Sprafa]

Someone mentioned this in a thread, and I felt that I had to clear soem things up.

Whoever he was, he said that a pic from my street reminded him from the pic of the young boy stopping the tanks in a Square (I cleared up that it was Tiananmen)

It wasn't just 1 boy. It was a revolt, shutted up by the strenght of arms.

you can watch the full video of the "incident" here

I know I'm probably sparking yet another Bush-Iraq thread, because all and every internacional discussion in this forum eventually lead that way. I just hope not.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Didn't that guy "vannish" after that incident?

 

[Sprafa]

Didn't that guy "vannish" after that incident?

some say he was shot down right there . so ,yes he "vannished".

 

[CptStern]

guy in front of tank photo

story behind photo

 

[Pogrom]

It wasn't just 1 boy. It was a revolt, shutted up by the strenght of arms.

Actually, the story is different depending upon who you talk to. Most Western journalists describe it as a peaceful pro-democracy demonstration by Chinese University students.

China says that although there were university students there, the gathering was the beginning of a coup by revolutionaries. The tanks were sent in to stop 'rioters'.

I have been to Tiananmen Square. I have spoken to many Chinese people about it. Some believe that there is more to it than what the government says. Some don't understand why it seems like a big deal to foreigners. Either way, it still seems slightly taboo to talk about it in China. I get this feeling of people being wary of Big Brother overhearing them.

The recent anniversary of Tiananmen was very quiet in China. There was nothing on Chinese TV or Radio to indicate that it happened at all. The only reason I was aware of it was because I look at English language internet sites.

 

[CptStern]

hmmm I'd have thought people would still be angry or that it would be a time of mourning. We hear so little from that side of the world on western media

 

[Bad^Hat]

Just because it was quiet doesn't mean they weren't angry or mourning. The world does not consist of what we see/read in the news. But I see what you mean, I know very little about China myself.

 

[The Mullinator]

From what I hear, if you ask anyone in the Chinese military about it they will deny that the event ever occured. Not surprising really given the way the government of China works.

 

[Kyorisu]

The media are allways twisting things around their pinkie fingers.

 

[ductonius]

Many of the Chinese exchange students at my university dont actually believe it happened. Then again, they're over here on exchange becaue it is being paid for by the Communist Part of China; they're parents are usually memebers. So what can you expect?

Even if you take them to a library or a internet terminal they refuse to believe it. They think its a fabrication by the western press to smear the great country of China.

Really freaking sad.

 

[The Mullinator]

Naturally by having this thread here I suspect the Chinese government will most likely block this site to people in China (if they hadn't already done so). Oh well, no country will ever last forever so we are just going to have to wait for when the current Chinese government is replaced. Hopefully it won't take too long.

 

[CptStern]

Naturally by having this thread here I suspect the Chinese government will most likely block this site to people in China (if they hadn't already done so). Oh well, no country will ever last forever so we are just going to have to wait for when the current Chinese government is replaced. Hopefully it won't take too long.

ya I'm waiting for the same thing to happen to Bush

 

[Tr0n]

I think the only way china is gonna become a full democratic goverment is through war.China isn't in the situation that Russia was in the 80's.....So I think it would be near impossible to do the same thing that the russians did and do a peaceful revolt.But if the revolt had pretty much all the citizens in china....then it would be a diffrent story.

 

[The Mullinator]

ya I'm waiting for the same thing to happen to Bush

lol, at least its fact that Bush can't stay in power for more than 2 terms. China on the other hand is completely unknown. ;(

 

[CptStern]

lol, at least its fact that Bush can't stay in power for more than 2 terms.

meh they'll just put in another bush clone...I mean how hard can it be to clone someone with the IQ equivelent to tree bark?

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Heh, democracy isnt all its cracked up to be anyway...Nearly half the population can disagree with something yet because that extra 0.01% want it, it happens.

I don't have a better alternative...At least, nothing that would always be better but i still think democracy in its current form isn't that good.


CptStern...You are a moron who couldn't empty an open bottle if someone said the instructions were on the bottom.

Did you like that? How about a thousand people say that about you everyday? Would you like it if people did that?

I don't want to turn this into another "I hatez0r Bush" thread but really does it ever end with the stupid remarks?

 

[CptStern]

Jebus farrow, relax it's just a comment, it's not like he isnt called a moron every single day. It was a joke

it's not like you know him personally

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Its just a comment, yeah every time its just a comment. Whats with everyone calling Bush an idiot? Oh and that was my point...being called it every day.

So what if i don't know him personally. "Hey a million people died...meh as a great man once said, 'Its just a statistic'"

 

[CptStern]

ya well there's no reason to get testy it's not like I made a comment about your family or friends. And he is a moron: he got busted for cocaine use, is a drunk and routinely falls down

oh and the last time I checked this moron caused the death of thousands of innocents by uttering these words :

"Saddam has WMD and is willing to use them"

oh and you may want to take your own advice by not turning this into a bush flamewar...if you want to argue the point send me a PM

 

[mortiz]

Jebus farrow, relax it's just a comment, it's not like he isnt called a moron every single day. It was a joke

it's not like you know him personally

I think you're misunderestimating Bush's intelligence








(misunderestimating is a "Bush'ism" by the way)

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Swiftly moving on....


I think China is rapidly moving to be one of the biggest internet uses as a percent of its population (As opposed to a number of people). Its weird because in the not so distant future, it looks like the USA won't be the dominant one anymore. China is rapidly industrialising, the EU seems to be trying to collectivise Russia, although in the pits has actually been gaining a lot of support from busines and such like. Then there are "3rd" world countries which could, begin to really advance.

 

[Tommmo]

I've always found the Tianamen Square footage of the one student standing strong against the tank a deeply moving image. Now I'm not one to be influenced emotionally by films and such, but it just seems so symbolic of freedom and courage in the face of adversity and terror - that one man was a silent spokesperson for a generation of those that hoped for freedom. You can never underestimate this event.

 

[Tr0n]

Heh, democracy isnt all its cracked up to be anyway...Nearly half the population can disagree with something yet because that extra 0.01% want it, it happens.

I don't have a better alternative...At least, nothing that would always be better but i still think democracy in its current form isn't that good.


CptStern...You are a moron who couldn't empty an open bottle if someone said the instructions were on the bottom.

Did you like that? How about a thousand people say that about you everyday? Would you like it if people did that?

I don't want to turn this into another "I hatez0r Bush" thread but really does it ever end with the stupid remarks?

I agree with farrow...Everytime you start some stupid ass thread about bush or america it always turns into a flame war.OT is supposed to be a peaceful place and a fun place.But yet people like you always got to bring up something about bush or the iraq war.Why with all the pain and suffering eh?My step brother is over there in iraq at least you can do is show respect for those people!Same with this thread...this thread is to remember those brave souls that stood up against there oppresive goverment.Hell I bet you don't know a damn thing about the real world....I bet your another kid who takes everything for granted.You talk about not having freedom when in fact you call bush a moron and a dumbass, but if this was an oppressive goverment you would be dead by now for saying that.You just take your freedom for granted...just remember all those who died for your freedom.

Anyways end of /rant

But on another note I think another reason why china might not become a democracy because of the child labor there.I mean companies like nike would lose lots of money because they lost the easy labor.But who knows if it does become a democracy everyone would stop worrying about another ww3 for now and we actually might make more money from them.

 

[Pogrom]

Funny you should mention China blocking this site - I couldn't log onto this site yesterday :frown:

But I think everyone is taking the situation a little too simply. China is not really a true communist country. But neither is it really moving towards a USA-style democracy.

China certainly has democratic processes at work. Although there is no such thing as voting for everybody, there are local government elections. And local governments can vote on larger issues. There are also large legislative bodies similar to the USA's Congress.

I don't believe that democracy can really catch on in China, at least not in the same form as Westernised countries. Keep in mind that only 100 years ago, China was still living in a feudal society. Then think back to the earliest Chinese settlements discovered of the banks of the Yellow River.

Archeologists have discovered that the earliest form of Chinese society was an autocratic dictatorship, represented by a benevolent father figure. This type of governmental structure survived numerous permutations for around 5000-7000 years. The entire Chinese culture is based around this. And although you may change the system of government, changing culture is quite difficult.

As for WW3 - why does there even need to be a WW3? If the US loses it's privileged position as political and economic leader, so what? Then instead of having one global superpower, we'll have several. Having to share power doesn't mean that there needs to be a war.

Right now the US is the only real superpower. But the EU looks like it may become a new superpower. China could certainly become a superpower. India could become a superpower. Maybe a superpower will emerge from South America (Brazil?).

Russia also could become a superpower once again. Look at WWII - Russia was almost defeated, there was fighting in the streets of St Petersburg. Yet merely 10 years after the end of WWII Russia was a global superpower to be reckoned with. It could happen again.

So anyway (didn't mean for this post to be this long), I hope that the above scenario occurs. It will help to curb further instances of unilateralism. It will force the world to work together.

I find it ironic that a country that promotes democracy around the world, doesn't promote democracy between countries.