to continue sprafas "Are americans crazy" poll

Vigilante

Vigilante

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Original message:
"I´ve just watched «Bowling for Columbine» and i´ve been enligheted about what makes you americans kill each other.
DO YOU ACTUALLY SELL AMMO IN SUPERMARKETS??!!??
YOU´RE NUTS!!!!
10 percent of the people I know have a certain time in their life in wich they would kill everyone around them if they could ! And you give GUNS AND AMMO for 16-year-old-kids!!
Honestly you should reconsider your laws."

As an American, I do not know of one place in the country that sells ammo and guns in supermarkets. Plus, the guy who wrote Bowling for Columbine, Michael Moore (I think), is one of the biggest liberals in the country. He is anti everything. He the kind of person that gets on your nerves (if you're consevative). We don't all kill each other either.
 
yeah, the whole reason for the 2nd amendment (which allows everyone to own a gun and implies the free sale of ammunition everywhere) was to arm the general populace against a tyrranical government...to ensure democracy would never turn into a monarchy or dictatorship or anything like that.

And you give GUNS AND AMMO for 16-year-old-kids!!
Click to expand...

no, you can't buy guns as a 16-year-old.

yes, michael moore does and says lots of things to aggravate people, but the really important thing he does is make you at least think about and consider the things that go on around you. if he pisses you off, at least you thought about the law or whatever else he was discussing and made a decision about it instead of just accepting it as "the way it is" like most people do.
 
Well guns are readily availible here in America. You may not be able to buy them when you're sixteen, but I could just as easily go to my friends house and grab his dad's guns or get my older friends to buy them for me. America is a different culture. I'm not going into detail about all our differences, but guns are a lot more readily availible to everyone over here, is that a bad or a good thing people will continue to argue over for years to come.

Some car dealerships give out free rifles and shotguns with the purchase of a new car, sometimes even used car dealerships do that.

Concerning the supermarket selling ammo, that's not possible (I think) unless they're talking about a Supercenter store where they sell almost everything including sporting guns and groceries.
 
still Americans.. French , Arabs, Japanese we are after all on the same Goddam Planet!. just because theres expanses of ocean between two extruding masses of land people segregate themselves, and ignore the big picture. Generally I dont think Michael Moore is poking fun at every American,, (to me, owning a gun for self protection is fine, Its just when there freely available like that! how the hell do ya stop someone who just decides to go use it to hurt people!.. This all links into government, what do you guys think of Bush.. and him easing up on gun law. does he want you guys to get trigger happy? sounds like he couldnt really care about the ongoing chaos this causes. sounds like he wants no part of it.

but generally speaking most Americans in my experianced, are nice :). it seems that some of you are just mislead.. ugh um,, mr Bush.. cough
 
Yes fizzle, but can't anyone do that in a European country? Now I'm unfamiliar with European gun control issues, but it seems plausible.
 
you would have to be desperate, (really want to kill someone or import a gun, or go to black market sellers. Europe is a bit more strict. I havnt seen a side arm in anybody's house in this country for years (all 19 of them :D).. admitedly ive got a gas gun..and no, I dont shoot people with it :P )
 
clarky003 said:
(to me, owning a gun for self protection is fine, Its just when there freely available like that! how the hell do ya stop someone who just decides to go use it to hurt people!..

but generally speaking most Americans in my experianced, are nice :). it seems that some of you are just mislead.. ugh um,, mr Bush.. cough
Click to expand...

see...owning a gun for self-protection is only done out of fear...fear that someone will come into your home and hurt you...

but like you said...most americans are nice people (unless they're driving) who wouldn't hurt someone else (at least not physically) for personal gain. the 2nd amendment was created in fear, and the people who own guns to protect themselves are fearful as well.

our government is based on fear...fear of too much power in government...fear that one branch of government will overpower another, etc. it's time people started trusting each other a bit more...i think they'd see that most people are trustworthy as long as they don't have to fear everyone else screwing them over.
 
The Japanese have a very violent culture. They stress strict discipline and sacrifice. During Shogun times they would measure the strength of their swords by seeing how many slaves heads in a row they could chop off with one slash. But they still have harsher gun control than the U.S.

And concerning culture differences between the U.S. and U.K. , Things like nudity and sex are different , I think the age of consent in Britain is like 16, here it's 18, in Russia it's like 14. Sex in the media is much more prevalent over in the U.K., here there are very strict laws concerning nudity and such in the media. But when it comes to guns and violence their is no better form of entertainment.
 
i think every country has some gun problems, but gun control in america seems to be out of control. I'm not trying to bash america, but the statistics he gives about gun related deaths every year are insanely higher than other countries. Might be larger population but something weird is going on. I realize michael moore might be somewhat biased, but u have to admit he doesn't have some valid points in the documentary.
 
whatever else he was discussing and made a decision about it instead of just accepting it as "the way it is" like most people do.
Click to expand...

are you guys 'most people'?. because Michaels trying to ask the question.. why should we accept it as the way it is? we have a say.. or is the public too engrained into the inertia of modern living, (basically are we that sheepish :burp: ? are we that lazy and unrichous :dozey: ? are we that brain dead? :x )

but u have to admit he doesn't have some valid points in the documentary.
Click to expand...

hes a comedian, hes trying to make it funny aswell... what do u expect. and his biased attitude is a refreshing welcome to opinions on Bush. Infact its scary how many 'valid' points he 'does' have :stare:
 
the second ammendment (the ability to posess guns) was created so a militia of citizens could easily overthrow the government if it got too powerful. Thomas Jefferson beleived it was healthy to have a revolution every few years.
 
its sounds like a good idea to me.. lol.. somehow I dont think it would make much difference. I think the government have set society up to stop people from doing that , as a precaution. (the US army etc.) ,,Thomas jefferson was a wise man:), besides revolutions helped the human race leap forward evey now and again,, and I dont know about you but I feel like we are stuck, being totally controlled , and with barely any trust around. racisim and all that. Besides it gives people something to do too. :P ;)
 
well..... i'm glad some one de-harshened sparfa's words cause that movie is not an accurate view of america AT ALL!!!
 
About Michael Moore and Bowling For Columbine:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

I'm not going to say anything more about it.
Click to expand...

reading that, accusation of his program, (cause thats what it is, an accusation)
it appears that the writer has exagerated the description of Michael Moores program, saying he is lying , and not basing his work on the actual events.( Irony, oh the Irony)

but its a TV program!. its obviously meant to be exagerated. I think this writer is trying to cover someones legal ass.( because it is contraversial stuff)
 
It's probably too late now to introduce a ban on guns in the US due to the sheer number of them out there, and the population's attitude towards owning them.

I personally hate guns and think they belong in three places, Police belts, military hands, and video games, and nowhere else. :)

It's a viscious cycle in the US because everyone* owns a gun because everyone owns a gun.


*I know not everyone owns a gun.


In Aus we have more stabbings than shootings, although there is currently a problem with some gangs.
 
The scene with the militia guys, all kitted out with camo and brandishing automatic weapons, was extremely disturbing.

One guy, and accountant or real estate broker (I shit you not), kept an M16 at home for personal protection. What a complete and utter loony.

Having ppl who believe they need this sort of hardware is scary enough, letting them have it is beyond insane.

The current gun laws in the US are ridiculous. Giving scared ppl the ability to kill, in the blink of an eye, is not the answer. Doesn't take a brain scientist to realise this.
 
ElFuhrer said:
It is a bit disturbing to see guns in Walmart...
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but they're all just hunting rifles.. and paintball guns :P
 
Maskirovka said:
see...owning a gun for self-protection is only done out of fear...fear that someone will come into your home and hurt you...

but like you said...most americans are nice people (unless they're driving) who wouldn't hurt someone else (at least not physically) for personal gain. the 2nd amendment was created in fear, and the people who own guns to protect themselves are fearful as well.

our government is based on fear...fear of too much power in government...fear that one branch of government will overpower another, etc. it's time people started trusting each other a bit more...i think they'd see that most people are trustworthy as long as they don't have to fear everyone else screwing them over.
Click to expand...

So far, you have been the most accurate in assessing our current society.

However, to clear things up:
The Second Amendment, word-for-word:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

That does NOT mean self-defense. That means a well-regulated, not self-induced, militia, not individual, for the protection of a free state, not free individual (which would ultimately lead to chaos). Therefore, the 2nd Amendment ONLY guarantees the right to bear arms for the protection of the state in the case of a foreign invasion or domestic schism, not for self-defense and certainly not for pleasure.

Realize also that the 2nd Amendment was written over two hundred years ago when the threat of such invasion or schism was very relevant. By a contextual interpretation today however, it is baseless.
 
It's kind of funny though, you're saying trust people but you don't want to trust them with guns ;)

I see your point though, but it won't happen. If everyone were to purge themselves of guns, then the country would be ripe with crime. Sorry, but police can't be there in time, atleast not usually.
 
If everyone were to purge themselves of guns, then the country would be ripe with crime. Sorry, but police can't be there in time, atleast not usually.
Click to expand...
A criminal without automatic weapons (if everyone were to get rid of their guns) is magically more able to kill people that don't have weapons than a criminal with automatic weapons?

When the criminal draws his gun and catches you by suprise you will not have time to draw your gun before you get shot. So, your self-defense weapon is effectively rendered useless. If the person being attacked got to draw first there wouldn't be nearly as many crimes.

In most violent crimes the assailant has a weapon and the victim is defenseless. How (again, if everyone were to get rid of their guns) would neither of them having a gun make the country rife with crime? If you were standing behind the counter at a bank or a store, would you be more afraid of a man with a gun or a man with a knife?

What about being on the other end of the crime? Would you try to rob a bank at knife-point? Would you carjack someone with a compound bow? Would you assassinate the President during a parade with piano wire? Would you hijack an airplane with a nail file?

Guns make crime easier. If we could somehow destroy all of the guns in the world it would only help... but we can't.
 
babywax said:
If everyone were to purge themselves of guns, then the country would be ripe with crime. Sorry, but police can't be there in time, atleast not usually.
Click to expand...

All handguns and rifles are forbidden over here in the Netherlands. It is possible to get fire-arms, but it takes a lot of time and miles of red tape. The result is that a very small minority of the Dutch has guns. Yes, there are guncrimes over here, but is basically all fellons killing other fellons. So ripe (isn't it rife?) with crime? No, I don't think so ...
 
A criminal without automatic weapons (if everyone were to get rid of their guns) is magically more able to kill people that don't have weapons than a criminal with automatic weapons?

When the criminal draws his gun and catches you by suprise you will not have time to draw your gun before you get shot. So, your self-defense weapon is effectively rendered useless. If the person being attacked got to draw first there wouldn't be nearly as many crimes.

In most violent crimes the assailant has a weapon and the victim is defenseless. How (again, if everyone were to get rid of their guns) would neither of them having a gun make the country rife with crime? If you were standing behind the counter at a bank or a store, would you be more afraid of a man with a gun or a man with a knife?

What about being on the other end of the crime? Would you try to rob a bank at knife-point? Would you carjack someone with a compound bow? Would you assassinate the President during a parade with piano wire? Would you hijack an airplane with a nail file?

Guns make crime easier. If we could somehow destroy all of the guns in the world it would only help... but we can't.
Click to expand...
Don't be a dufus, you knew exactly what I meant, and don't take things so literally. Use that reading comprehension, it's there for a reason ;)

Guns DO help when you hear someone breaking into your home. Home invasions are a lot more common than you might think, and having a weapon to defend yourself with would help a lot there.

I'm by no means a gun nut, however, you do know it is illegal for someone with a felony conviction to own a gun? There are TONS of limits on owning guns.

Even if there were no guns in the world it would only increase the brutality of crimes. Crossbows are far less lethal than guns, but they fire bolts at over 25 miles per second, injuring and maiming for worse than guns.

There would still be crime, and the injuries would be far more brutal and painful. There would of course be less death. How about cars BTW? It's very easy to kill a person with a car, where do you draw the line between weapon and tool?
I mean look at the WTC, they killed far more than they would have had they used guns. Anything can be a weapon, the problem does not begin with the tool, it begins with the person who uses it. Without humans there is nothing wrong with a gun, it is only a tool, used for stopping crime, committing crime, and even other things.

There is no doubt we would be better off with no guns, but there is almost no way we would be as advanced without having guns in history. Remember that gun powder brought forward many, many good technological advances. Think about how many people would be dead today if gunpowder hadn't forced medicine to advance so fast.

I think Albert Einstein put it pretty well: "I don't know what WW3 will be fought with; but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones." Human evolution is affected by good things and bad, and many good things come from bad things and bad things from good.
 
[1]
If I need any proof that there are stupid people, I only need to look at this thread. The quote in the first post, he's the kind of person that listens to these speeches and can't make up his own mind. Whether it be preachers, teachers, governmental figures, movies, documentaries, commentaries, etc, he so easily follows statements made by one source without checking the thousands of contradictory sources.

Congratulations, you are an idiot.
No, that wasn't meant to be an insult, but rather an observation/description.

[2]
I would seriously think some of you have never heard of hunting.


[3]
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

And if you haven’t read at least 1/5 of this document (doesn't really matter which 1/5) you should shut up and go read it.

If you ask anyone that actually LIVES IN THE US AND IS HALF COMPITENT, you would know we aren't a gun-toting, murderous people.
 
Guns are only dangerously rampant in the black markets and criminal underground in the U.S. And the fact is no amount of new regulations would stop them. Up here in Canada the only reason there are fewer guns is because there are no real major gun manufacturers, criminals use them just as much as in the U.S. but its harder for them to get the guns since they have to smuggle them accross the border.

So heres my view: Gun manufacturers should be the ones more closely regulated and watched, meanwhile those private citizens who own guns should be left alone since most of the time they are rifles that are used for hunting or are never used at all. Although IMO hunters should be using a bow or crossbow (it takes more skill).
 
babywax said:
Don't be a dufus, you knew exactly what I meant, and don't take things so literally. Use that reading comprehension, it's there for a reason ;)

Guns DO help when you hear someone breaking into your home. Home invasions are a lot more common than you might think, and having a weapon to defend yourself with would help a lot there.

I'm by no means a gun nut, however, you do know it is illegal for someone with a felony conviction to own a gun? There are TONS of limits on owning guns.

Even if there were no guns in the world it would only increase the brutality of crimes. Crossbows are far less lethal than guns, but they fire bolts at over 25 miles per second, injuring and maiming for worse than guns.

There would still be crime, and the injuries would be far more brutal and painful. There would of course be less death. How about cars BTW? It's very easy to kill a person with a car, where do you draw the line between weapon and tool?
I mean look at the WTC, they killed far more than they would have had they used guns. Anything can be a weapon, the problem does not begin with the tool, it begins with the person who uses it. Without humans there is nothing wrong with a gun, it is only a tool, used for stopping crime, committing crime, and even other things.

There is no doubt we would be better off with no guns, but there is almost no way we would be as advanced without having guns in history. Remember that gun powder brought forward many, many good technological advances. Think about how many people would be dead today if gunpowder hadn't forced medicine to advance so fast.

I think Albert Einstein put it pretty well: "I don't know what WW3 will be fought with; but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones." Human evolution is affected by good things and bad, and many good things come from bad things and bad things from good.
Click to expand...
1) Guns that you keep in your house for self-defense are, statistically, much more likely to end up killing a family member than an intruder. Get a good security system and try to scare the intruder away before you even need to defend yourself.

2) There are practically no restrictions on weapons compared to those in many other countries. We have a gun store and a Wal-Mart that sells guns a few blocks from my old school. There was one on the same block, but it closed because they didn't get much business.

3) If you think a crossbow can maim more than a gun you probably haven't seen real gunshot wounds.

4) The more brutal the crime, the harder it is for someone to get angry enough to commit said crime. It's (relatively) easy to just pull a trigger and be done with it. It is psychologically harder to kill someone with a knife (I'm not sure about a crossbow).

5) Don't give me that whole "a gun is just a tool" crap. Sure, it's a tool... a tool for killing things. What other purpose does it have? Hunters should be given a simple bow and some arrows to hunt with... or maybe just a knife. Hunting is too easy with a rifle.

6) The major benefit to medicine that comes from guns is the advancement in treating gunshot wounds. It's like saying that we benefit from AIDS by being able to treat it better.

... but it's too late. I'd like to seem them try to get rid of all the guns, now. Shyeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt!
 
Ya the guns at Walmart are hunting rifles and paintball guns. I really hate it when people base their views of America on movies and books that aren't even real.
 
ray_MAN said:
Ya the guns at Walmart are hunting rifles and paintball guns. I really hate it when people base their views of America on movies and books that aren't even real.
Click to expand...


You're right to say that. But what else of America does the rest of the world see? American corporations try to Americanise the rest of the world while at the same time films and books are pouring out of the country and into peoples lives.

I'm not saying its always a bad thing, its just that goes a way to explaining peoples opinions of the US.
 
babywax said:
Crossbows are far less lethal than guns, but they fire bolts at over 25 miles per second, injuring and maiming for worse than guns.
Click to expand...

I'm not gonna get too deep into this debate, but I'd just like to point out a very strange error here...

If crossbow bolts go at 25 miles per second, then that equates to about 1500 miles a minute, which is 90000 miles an hour, which is a bit more than mach one-hundred and thirty-six...

Wouldn't they burn up at that speed?

And wouldn't the crossbow's user be knocked backward at incredible speed?
 
Of course Americans are crazy, that's why they're constantly foaming at the mouth.

Now the US has turned into a giant pool of saliva, threatening to flood the entire continent. That's why Bush went to Iraq.
 
Just curious...how is soemthing less lethal? It only kills you a little? I mean, it can have less chance of kiling you....but, less lethal :)
 
Those bolts move pretty fast though. not sure if it is that fast but very fast non the less. However, that is a measurement on release. Wind drag and other such things will slow it rapidly.
 
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