To settle the "Willit's comments" thread

[Chris D]

Couldn't wait to get authorisation from you to post this Abom, so I've gone and done it anyway. If things get out of hand again then close it straight away.

Everyone should take notice of this e-mail I've just received from Gabe regarding Willit's comments. This should pretty much settle the dispute:

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Deeming [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 7:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Settlement
------------------------------

In a recent interview with ID Software:

"Willits said that the physics engine for Doom III is a unique id Software
engine and is not a licensed engine like other games have. Willits described

a Doom III test map where 100 boxes are stacked up and one shot can bring
the entire stack down. Willits claimed such a scene would bring other game
physics engines down to their knees."

Some people, not including myself TBH, think that this is a direct/indirect
dig at Valve. What are your feelings on the above comment? It might just
settle a dispute on the forums.

Chris_D
___________________________

Gabe:Tim is a good guy. I haven't spoken to him about what they are doing for
physics, so I don't know what the test case is that he's referring to.

I am looking forward to Doom III and will buy it, as will pretty much
everybody here at Valve.

I'm copying Tim so he can comment if he wants to.
___________________________

In my honest opinion whether or not Tim was having a dig at Valve is irrelevant now. Gabe doesn't mind and he feels that his comments were totally justified. Therefore, I feel that people should be able to conduct a very mature discussion about this, one that doesn't reflect the immaturity shown in some of the days earlier flame wars.

I'll be back in a few hours.

Discuss. Maturely.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Nice one m8.

Will people please stop haveing a go at ID now. There really is no need for it.

 

[Flynn]

K, im just as excited for doom 3 as i am for hl2, i've played the alpha version of d3 and was simple amazed. i think the comment that Will made could have been aimed towards hl2, but who cares? Both games are sweet and im going to buy both. WHOOPIDE DOOO DAH!

 

[Flynn]

oh yes, another thing. without ID software, there wouldnt be a hl2, or even hl. DOOM and wolfenstein sparked the 1st person world and inspired millions to create others like it.

 

[Rilcon]

"I don't need to be around short people to be tall"

So, who thinks I just called everyone around me short?

 

[Dagobert]

What? Game developers aren't all cackling goons trying to pull the rug out form each others feet? Crazy stuff.

Kids - all the people that upgrade for HL2 will get D3 after they have finished HL2.

All the people that upgrade for D3 will get HL2 when they have finished D3.

There is no such thing as competition in this context. People DON'T buy one piece of software a year.

 

[simmo]

ID = Rules

Valve= Rules

They are 2 great companys, creating 2 excellent! gamez!

 

[$niper]

What's with the issue regarding if Tim took a "dig" at Valve? Who the hell cares, seriously? How does that affect Half-Life 2?

Neither company did anything wrong, so just leave it at that.

 

[Zerox]

$niper: Goodluck with Sven Co-op for HL2!

 

[Morbo]

I think when you spend 1000$+ on an upgrade you usually don't buy only one game. Just saying this because some people sound like they'll buy only one game, wich I don't believe at all.

 

[Hudson]

i love this stuff, whenever a discussion like this comes along, where it is asked of people to be civil, they always are. They say "valve and ID are both great i love them!", but when this thread is finished, some people (not everyone, im not pointing fingers) will just go back to "omg ID games is teh rulex0r!!!" or whatever.

and like a lot of people, i also plan on buying all of the next gen games that are coming out. stalker, deus ex, halo2, HL2, and doom3, sorry if i missed any, o yeah, and bloodlines!!

 

[Gunner]

The whole debate concerning Doom and Halflife is ridiculous. I don't even understand how people can get so upset over this. Like Gabe Newell said, I will also buy both games. There's no competition to get my money, I don't care which company does what as long as they produce amazing games, which seems to be the case. So I'll just shut up, that's all

 

[Morbo]

Originally posted by |CC|Hudson
and like a lot of people, i also plan on buying all of the next gen games that are coming out. stalker, deus ex, halo2, HL2, and doom3, sorry if i missed any, o yeah, and bloodlines!!

Man that's exciting. It's a good time to be a gamer.

 

[Majestic XII]

Some people dont know what marketing means. The things he said is only a marketing thing. A company whould never say that thay are crap or second best at something...that whould sound...dumb.

 

[Gunner]

Originally posted by |CC|Hudson
i love this stuff, whenever a discussion like this comes along, where it is asked of people to be civil, they always are. They say "valve and ID are both great i love them!", but when this thread is finished, some people (not everyone, im not pointing fingers) will just go back to "omg ID games is teh rulex0r!!!" or whatever.

Hey I resent that. Not everyone here is thirteen you know.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Yeah, I wasnt pretending to be civil lol.
He said "Some people", just to clarify.

 

[Hudson]

Originally posted by )[eVo]( Para
Hey I resent that. Not everyone here is thirteen you know.

reread my post, it clearly says SOME PEOPLE, and then i also clearly said that im NOT POINTING FINGERS AT ANYONE, so in otherwords, it wasnt directed at you.

 

[X-Vector]

There is nothing wrong with putting forward a particular choice of one game (style) over another and IMO there is room for discussion, even if it concerns what mostly comes down to personal preference - as long as it's kept civil.

I don't enjoy immature flaming and bickering, but this knee-jerk "hey, they're both cool and let's leave it at that" isn't my cup of tea either.
Id are making some design choices that I genuinely disagree with and there should be an opportunity for me to express that sentiment as there should be allowance for others to come to id's defense, so to speak.

This is a discussion forum, let's use it that way.

 

[Chris D]

Congratulations everyone, this discussion is very sensible :cheers:

And yeah, it is an amazing time for gaming. There hasn't been that many games recently that have been anything to get exciting about, and nothing amazingly ground breaking to the genres either in terms of features and capabilities. But now we've got HL2, Stalker, Doom 3, Max Payne 2, Deus Ex, Halo 2, Bloodlines and the list can go on and on and the list will grow and grow and there's many I've missed. All of the games bring a new level of graphics and many new capabilities with certain effects and the gameplay as a whole. It's been a while since we've had a time like this for gaming, let's hope that this time, after all of these games have broken the ground, that we're not waiting too long for the next ones to come and break the ground even more.

 

[Tull91]

I second that. I will buy and enjoy both games. D3 when I wan't to be scared and HL2 whenever I feel like it:cheers: I will also buy the games you mentioned plus Black&White 2 and other good games...indeed a good time for gaming.

 

[Gunner]

My apologies Hudson

Even though I don't usually participate in the "x is better than y" threads, I agree with Vector. It might even be constructive to debate some aspects of these two wonderful games, just as long as no one starts name calling. There was this other thread about doom3, and along the 10th page someone said: halflife 2 plays better than doom3, then someone else replied: wow are you from the future? That made me laugh so hard

 

[Korgoth]

why didn't some one just email gabe and ask if you could stack 100 boxes on top of each other and shoot one and watch them all fall? That would easly settle the my game is bigger than yours debate... if they say yes, both games will be on equal ground and if they say no both games will still be on equal groubd because regardless NONE OF US HAVE ACTUALLY PLAYED THE FINAL VERSION OF EITHER GAME!

 

[X-Vector]

Originally posted by Chris_D
And yeah, it is an amazing time for gaming. There hasn't been that many games recently that have been anything to get exciting about, and nothing amazingly ground breaking to the genres either in terms of features and capabilities. But now we've got HL2, Stalker, Doom 3, Max Payne 2, Deus Ex, Halo 2, Bloodlines and the list can go on and on and the list will grow and grow and there's many I've missed. All of the games bring a new level of graphics and many new capabilities with certain effects and the gameplay as a whole. It's been a while since we've had a time like this for gaming, let's hope that this time, after all of these games have broken the ground, that we're not waiting too long for the next ones to come and break the ground even more.

People say that every year.

 

[Gunner]

Originally posted by X-Vector
People say that every year.

Well you have to admit Chris D has a point: he mentioned mostly sequels, and these aren't just any sequels they're the follow-ups to the most popular games: Halflife (of course lol), Max Payne, Deux Ex. People might be saying the same every year but it's exceptional concerning these games.

 

[Chris D]

Especially considering some of the technology they're using is either unheard of and revolutionary, or highly improved stuff such as rag doll physics.

 

[X-Vector]

All I'm saying is that over the past, say, five years that I've been playing PC games and attending messageboards, there's always been talk of some grand upsurge of quality gaming just over the horizon.
Of course, what happens is that some of those titles get cancelled, some postponed and some simply turn out disappointing.
I don't want to come off as a doom monger, but I expect that the real gems will remain rare.
Not that this is a bad thing per se, three materpieces every month would just leave me spoilt and more jaded than I already am.

 

[Mountain Man]

Whatever. Tim Willits is still a wanker in my book. Regardless of Gabe's feelings on the matter, I still think it was poor sport of Willits to take an obvious cheap shot at the only other game in developement with stand-out physics.

While both developers, Valve and id, are making compromises, it just seems to me that Valve is making all the right ones. After all, this is the company that decided what kind of game they wanted to make before they even thought about the technology necessary to make it. id, on the other hand, has been characteristically arrogant about the fact that they're building a game to fit their technology.

Gabe has his opinion, and I have mine. So there ya go.

 

[Gunner]

Originally posted by X-Vector
Of course, what happens is that some of those titles get cancelled, some postponed and some simply turn out disappointing.

A certain game comes to mind: Duke Nukem "it's gonna take" Forever.

 

[Reiska]

Originally posted by X-Vector
We're on an express elevator to hell... going down.

X-Vector I SO love your sig Aliens2 is still one of the best movies ever

 

[Mountain Man]

I'm not exactly sure what's happened to Duke Nukem Forever. I hope 3DR releases a post-mortem about the project (whatever its fate) as it could be fascinating reading.

 

[X-Vector]

Yeah, both Alien and Aliens are cool movies, I sure hope their reappearance in the cinema will not be US only.

 

[Gunner]

Mountain Man, read this funny tidbit from the 3d Realms site:

The release date of this game is "When it's done". lol

http://www.3drealms.com/duke4/

 

[nw909]

Like DNF will ever actually come out, I hope it bombs like Enter The Matrix.

 

[Ridic]

Ill be getting both doom3 and hl2. Both should be amazing ground breaking games. I am looking forward to hl2 more because of the story though.

Its the persons fault if they want to miss out on a great game like doom3 because of fanyboyism.

 

[Morbo]

Hey someone got to make a Duke Nukem mod. It would probably be better than the real thing anyway at this point.

 

[UDHA]

If you can show me a gameing engine right now that can do what he claims, I'll be very impressed, and I'd say that's his argument.

 

[Chris D]

I'm pretty certain that Havok can do it and I've seen it in action. I just can't find where. Or was it the STALKER video?

WHOOOOOO!!!! 1000posts

EDIT: I just checked and it had something similar in the Stalker trailer. But I'm pretty sure Havok will be able to do it and likewise Doom3

 

[Hudson]

Originally posted by X-Vector
Yeah, both Alien and Aliens are cool movies, I sure hope their reappearance in the cinema will not be US only.

*COUGH* LOOK AT MY NAME *COUGH*

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Rilcon
"I don't need to be around short people to be tall"

So, who thinks I just called everyone around me short?

I knew you were looking when I was taking that shower, you sickie.

 

[BlumenKohl]

*HL2 Fanboys Read Chris_D's post*

*Fanboys think: God Has Spoken*

*Willits is not an ass and bad guy*


:cheers: