Totally Cheesed

[VelvetElvis]

:afro: I bought Episode one. Do I have to download it now? I just want to play it offline but steam wants to d/l the game. I thought that's waht I paid for! And i'm not really sure I want steam mulling around on my task bar doing God knows what while I'm online.

 

[mastag]

all steam is doing is updating and installing it. steam will not mess up your computer.

 

[VelvetElvis]

That's all?

When I buy a PC game that I wish to play offline, I want to install from the disk and start playing. I DON'T want to get online and start downloading massive updates. Do I have to update Xbox games everytime I buy one? NO. This is teh suck.

 

[mastag]

well get over it. steam is updating to give you the most bug free experience available right now without making you go and download patches.

 

[$kelet0r]

[Deleted]

 

[Catachan]

When I buy a PC game that I wish to play offline, I want to install from the disk and start playing. I DON'T want to get online and start downloading massive updates. Do I have to update Xbox games everytime I buy one? NO. This is teh suck.

Try playing a multiplayer game on your XBOX when they use patches and maps not put on the CD.

 

[Remus]

lol
living in the stone age methinks - if you had bothered to read the back of the box or even do any research before you bought the product like any normal consumer would, you would know that a net connection is necessary to access this game
After that you can play offline to your hearts content

True, but Steam still sucks. Good thing I don't have to use it.... Ups I shouldn't of said that .

 

[$kelet0r]

Yeah - steam is a huge pain for anyone not on 24/7 broadband (like me) but I've figured out how to avoid all the problems for the most part

 

[Link]

True, but Steam still sucks. Good thing I don't have to use it.... Ups I shouldn't of said that .

Steam benefits everyone with broadband. You are in the minority of the game playing public. Deal.

 

[DevgruSeal]

I'll compare STEAM to patches.

Patches:
Install game. Run game. Join server. Disconnect. "WTF? OMG i can't connect." Go online for support. Find out you need 1.2.2 patch. Download 1.2.2 patch. Install 1.2.2 patch. Restart. Run game. Still discconect. More support/research. OH, 1.3 is out now, the 1.2.2 patch was from an old news post. Downloading 1.3 patch. Installing. Restart. Run game. AH joy, finally.

STEAM:
Install STEAM. Install HL2. Download updates. Run game. Voila.

Now you tell me. Who wins?

 

[Remus]

^Your point is irrelevant to those who don't want to play HL DM, me included.

So for me it's like this:

Normal:
Install game. Run game.

Steam:
Install STEAM. Install HL2. Download updates. Run game

 

[Link]

Your right, other games don't make you update. Which is a shame really. Par example, le sin episodes. It had a major bug on release, where the automatic difficulty adjuster made it very hard at later stages. However, if you bought the game a week or two after release, you would not have suffered this, as it would be automatically fixed by the patch you automatically download.

Now imagine it wasn't a steam game. By your example, no matter when you bought the game, your first experience is going to be dampened by this bug, which would suck balls becuase for single player games, as with women, the first time with a new one is the best.

Anyway, stop wingeing you runt (I said runt, calm down mods ), just because you don't like something even though many more other people benefit does not mean mean it should be got rid of. I personally don't like your moaning, is it fair to expect you to be got rid of?

 

[Temppe]

Well a game shouldn't be released with a bug as bad as that. That what's testing is for. Steam is annoying enough with DSL, with dial-up it's a ****ing nightmare. Right now my brother is going through all that bullshit where you have to send them a photograph of your CD key so they can reset it so you can install the game to a different account so we can play DM against each other. It's frickin' annoying, is what it is. So damn straight I'm gonna winge.

 

[Link]

So the fact that it shouldn't happen means it wont? Prat, you've just made my point for me. It does happen, whether it should or not, thats why steam is a benefit.

And your brother should not have forgotten his username and password. Numpty.

 

[giant384]

Well a game shouldn't be released with a bug as bad as that. That what's testing is for. Steam is annoying enough with DSL, with dial-up it's a ****ing nightmare. Right now my brother is going through all that bullshit where you have to send them a photograph of your CD key so they can reset it so you can install the game to a different account so we can play DM against each other. It's frickin' annoying, is what it is. So damn straight I'm gonna winge.

you can play against each other on the same account in a lan server and how is dsl annoying with steam?? works perfectly fine for me.

 

[Temppe]

So the fact that it shouldn't happen means it wont? Prat, you've just made my point for me. It does happen, whether it should or not, thats why steam is a benefit.

And your brother should not have forgotten his username and password. Numpty.

All right, you win. But still, don't call me prat.

But as for your second point, my brother didn't have an account.
I Installed EP1 and completed it on my account. I formated my hard drive for other reasons and gave EP1 to him so he could play it. In order that I can still log in at the same time he can, he needs his own account. As far as I'm aware, the only way to do that is to reset the CD key, because the original CD key is forever associated with my account.

you can play against each other on the same account in a lan server...

I'm not sure I understand you. I have HL2 on account #1 and he needs to install EP1 with HL2DM on separate account #2 so we can log in simultaneously. Please explain what you mean.

 

[JeffDC]

As of last year, 75% of the world were still using dialup internet connections, and nearly 30% have no internet connection at all.

Valve's approach with Steam is not a bad idea, just very poorly implemented (at least give people the option of playing a game right out of the box), and at least a few years too early.

Myself, HL2 collected dust for several weeks until I had the time to deal with Steam. I almost didn't bother, unlike many friends of mine who simply returned the game unopened.

 

[Beerdude26]

I still find Steam to be one of the most efficient ways to download updates and buy games. And I've read from multiple 56Kers here that getting an update really doesn't take that long most of the time.

 

[DevgruSeal]

As of last year, 75% of the world were still using dialup internet connections, and nearly 30% have no internet connection at all.

Source?

 

[JeffDC]

I'm not saying it isn't. But removing choice for consumers is never a good idea, especially when 3/4 of them are on dialup connections.

Come to think of it, I've had this GOTY version of HL2 for nearly six months and I *still* haven't played CS:S or HL:S. I left the updates running overnight a few times and then decided screw it, this is truly ridiculous.

 

[giant384]

i dont see why some of you people are complaining and yes i can understand some places only have dial up but seriously what do you expect from a slow connection. also steam is a great creation valve has made. i mean some people have lost cds like i have sometimes and steam is able to download the full game. i do agree that its crazy sometimes that you have to update just to play but its not a problem for us high speed users.

 

[Link]

I'm not saying it isn't. But removing choice for consumers is never a good idea, especially when 3/4 of them are on dialup connections.

Thats hardly a valid statistic considering that 3/4 includes your grandmother.

In reality, the vast majority of steam users are on some form of broadband

Look, I know that most of you people on dialup are either unable to recieve broadband, or are children whos parents won't upgrade, but just because you are stuck does not mean that the majority should be held back. Progress is what keeps the world ticking over.

Tell me this. You have some mysterious medical condition that prevents you setting foot on a plane. Should everyone else be forced to not use planes just because your forced to take a car/boat?

 

[Dekstar]

As of last year, 75% of the world were still using dialup internet connections, and nearly 30% have no internet connection at all.

Explain to me how that makes sense? As of last year No one was on Broadband? You've taken up 105% with 56k and No internet at all.

 

[giant384]

Explain to me how that makes sense? As of last year No one was on Broadband? You've taken up 105% with 56k and No internet at all.

no one???? everyone i know has broadband if they can get it.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Hehe, Flawed logic at it's finest. Thumbs up, man.:thumbs:
But seriously though. Most people in the world who are avid gamers have, neigh, diserve at LEAST Broadband.

 

[JeffDC]

-- 30% of PC's do not have an internet connection.

-- 75% of PC's that do have internet connections use dialup not broadband.

Given these numbers, Valve's decision to make game updates both mandatory and immediate was (and is) ridiculous. Even Amazon's "Spotlight Review" calls Steam the "spawn of satan", so it's not just me who's disgusted with it.

 

[Remus]

The point all of you people that love Steam are missing is that it shouldn't be forced down our throats. Now it's basically like this: you want to play HL2 right, but you hate Steam, that's too bad get used to it. It should be optional for god sake. You want to "benefit" what Steam has to offer FINE, use Steam! But if you don't, you should also be able to play HL2 without it. What's so wrong about that.

 

[mastag]

The point all of you people that love Steam are missing is that it shouldn't be forced down our throats. Now it's basically like this: you want to play HL2 right, but you hate Steam, that's too bad get used to it. It should be optional for god sake. You want to "benefit" what Steam has to offer FINE, use Steam! But if you don't, you should also be able to play HL2 without it. What's so wrong about that.

since WON is obviously dead, how would you find servers online without steam? i think steam should be optional, but the fact is all the multiplayer servers are using steam now.

 

[Burnhard]

imho the OP has a fair point. The fan boys here flaming the OP are idiots if they can't empathise with the extreme frustration it has caused for a lot of users. Although I don't have a problem with it, other people I know do have. My sister for example was extremely peeved to have to download updates for HL2, on her rather bad 56k connection before my little nephew could play one of his birthday presents. We spent nearly 2 days installing it.

There are some benefits to the steam system, but there are also a lot of drawbacks. The main reason it exists however isn't to improve the user experience, it's to stop theft. So please be under no illusions. I don't see automatic updating of game files to be a key benefit, given that it's possible to do the same thing with a simple in-game mechanism, "Check for updates" or a web page with updates on it. The fact Steam does this automatically is nothing more than a small convenience, rather than a killer feature.

Once again, it's to stop people copying and sharing the games. There is no killer feature. Just like any DRM, you will be told that it's good for you, when really it's only good for the distributor/producer.

 

[Link]

Ok, first off, give me some proof that we are either fan boys or idiots, and don't try to answer that one you ****ing moron. Just because we like steam does not make us fan boys.

Second, no we don't have a huge amount of empathy for 56k users. Sorry, but we are serious gamers, talking about serious gaming. 56k is not part of this.

Third, steam is not just about automatic update, its got a useful friends feature, a server browser that dosen't require you to load the game first, it allows web links to do things without loading third party applications.

Furthermore, you can't lose your games. Lets have a race. I will uninstall Half life 2, you will uninstall a non steam game, like BF2. We will then snap our install CDs. We will now reinstall, using only official methods (No borrowing CDs of mates)

I win I think

Yes, steam also prevents you pirating shit, so what? It dosen't **** up your other games, it dosen't make you run it with the CD in. So, why shouldn't they allow their content providing system to authenticate things as well?

 

[Burnhard]

Link, you are are a fanboy for flaming the OP and you should show some respect. He's a disgruntled customer and I'm sure Valve are just as interested in his experience as anyone. Just because you like it, it doesn't mean everybody does. Most people actually posting here like it - wow, it's a no-brainer. Those that don't have ditched the game and anything else "steam". Those people are not going to camp a forum like this to argue with you.

Is steam just for serious gamers? No it isn't. No game company in their right mind would only produce games for "serious" gamers, unless they didn't care about their profits.

All of this "candy" you talk about isn't what the average consumer wants. Take my nephew for instance. He just wants to play Half Life 2. He doesn't care about the fact he can have a "friends" feature, or that it has a server browser. Half Life 2 is first and foremost a single player game. Sure if those features are there, he may use them, but no - they aren't essential.

Your point about snapping CD's is also stupid. Most people who buy games play them for a bit then get bored with them and either swap them with friends, give them away, sell them or put them on the shelf to collect dust. If they are really concerned about damage, they either take care of the CD's or make backups. Steam effectively puts restrictions on use, or at least puts obstacles in the way of users wanting to excersise fair use rights. It's basically DRM, dressed up as a content delivery platform.

I have empathy for 56k users, because believe it or not, broadband isn't available everywhere yet. Personally I have a good cable connection but I know many people, particularly in Rural areas, who do not have the possibility of broadband or cable for at least the next few years. That's a lot of potential customers you are calling morons.

Your problem is you don't have any experience of what life is like for others outside of your own little goldfish bowl. You really should get out more.

 

[JeffDC]

Link, you are are a fanboy for flaming the OP and you should show some respect. He's a disgruntled customer and I'm sure Valve are just as interested in his experience as anyone. Just because you like it, it doesn't mean everybody does. Most people actually posting here like it - wow, it's a no-brainer. Those that don't have ditched the game and anything else "steam". Those people are not going to camp a forum like this to argue with you.

Is steam just for serious gamers? No it isn't. No game company in their right mind would only produce games for "serious" gamers, unless they didn't care about their profits.

All of this "candy" you talk about isn't what the average consumer wants. Take my nephew for instance. He just wants to play Half Life 2. He doesn't care about the fact he can have a "friends" feature, or that it has a server browser. Half Life 2 is first and foremost a single player game. Sure if those features are there, he may use them, but no - they aren't essential.

Your point about snapping CD's is also stupid. Most people who buy games play them for a bit then get bored with them and either swap them with friends, give them away, sell them or put them on the shelf to collect dust. If they are really concerned about damage, they either take care of the CD's or make backups. Steam effectively puts restrictions on use, or at least puts obstacles in the way of users wanting to excersise fair use rights. It's basically DRM, dressed up as a content delivery platform.

I have empathy for 56k users, because believe it or not, broadband isn't available everywhere yet. Personally I have a good cable connection but I know many people, particularly in Rural areas, who do not have the possibility of broadband or cable for at least the next few years. That's a lot of potential customers you are calling morons.

Your problem is you don't have any experience of what life is like for others outside of your own little goldfish bowl. You really should get out more.

Very well said IMO.

HL2 was marketed first and foremost as a single player FPS, and people like me bought it based on that advertising. And Steam as a DRM scheme sets a very dangerous precedent. Consumers who go to a store and buy a book, magazine, video, audio CD etc have every right to expect that product to work immediately. Not two or three days later.

 

[DevgruSeal]

You can get around the DRM of HL2. However, it pushes the boundaries of legal limits. As does any way of getting around DRM.

 

[MiccyNarc]

Very well said IMO.

HL2 was marketed first and foremost as a single player FPS, and people like me bought it based on that advertising. And Steam as a DRM scheme sets a very dangerous precedent. Consumers who go to a store and buy a book, magazine, video, audio CD etc have every right to expect that product to work immediately. Not two or three days later.

That's why you read the freaking packaging. God (or evolution, whichever you believe) gave you a pair of perfectly good eyes, and a semi functional brain, make sure you use both in tandem.

 

[DietSoap]

I just wanted to tell everyone that this thread made me want some cheese. Now, I'm eating some small blocks of cheese I cut from a big block of shard cheddar with some A1 sauce. It taste yummy. :cheese:

... Just thought you people might have been wondering.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

That made my day.

 

[JeffDC]

That's why you read the freaking packaging. God (or evolution, whichever you believe) gave you a pair of perfectly good eyes, and a semi functional brain, make sure you use both in tandem.

Excuse me, nowhere on the HL2 package does it warn you that mandatory updates are required before the games become functional. All it says is that "online activation is required".

Check your facts before lobbing insults, moron.

 

[Burnhard]

That's why you read the freaking packaging. God (or evolution, whichever you believe) gave you a pair of perfectly good eyes, and a semi functional brain, make sure you use both in tandem.

That isn't a valid point for the majority of people. My kid sister has a good pair of eyes and a very functional brain but doesn't know what all that means at all. I'm sure you don't know much about Nursing (she is a nurse) - that doesn't make you an idiot. All she sees is "this is a game my son wants and it's on the PC games shelf". She doesn't even understand system requirements. Thats where people like me are useful (I updated her graphics card drivers for her). It's very difficult to explain why she has to download for 2 days before it starts playing.

 

[Link]

Link, you are are a fanboy for flaming the OP and you should show some respect. He's a disgruntled customer and I'm sure Valve are just as interested in his experience as anyone. Just because you like it, it doesn't mean everybody does. Most people actually posting here like it - wow, it's a no-brainer. Those that don't have ditched the game and anything else "steam". Those people are not going to camp a forum like this to argue with you.

Is steam just for serious gamers? No it isn't. No game company in their right mind would only produce games for "serious" gamers, unless they didn't care about their profits.

All of this "candy" you talk about isn't what the average consumer wants. Take my nephew for instance. He just wants to play Half Life 2. He doesn't care about the fact he can have a "friends" feature, or that it has a server browser. Half Life 2 is first and foremost a single player game. Sure if those features are there, he may use them, but no - they aren't essential.

Your point about snapping CD's is also stupid. Most people who buy games play them for a bit then get bored with them and either swap them with friends, give them away, sell them or put them on the shelf to collect dust. If they are really concerned about damage, they either take care of the CD's or make backups. Steam effectively puts restrictions on use, or at least puts obstacles in the way of users wanting to excersise fair use rights. It's basically DRM, dressed up as a content delivery platform.

I have empathy for 56k users, because believe it or not, broadband isn't available everywhere yet. Personally I have a good cable connection but I know many people, particularly in Rural areas, who do not have the possibility of broadband or cable for at least the next few years. That's a lot of potential customers you are calling morons.

Your problem is you don't have any experience of what life is like for others outside of your own little goldfish bowl. You really should get out more.

Ok, seriously, flaming somone for being a moaning bitch is not being a fanboy. And if you want to talk about respect, don't make your first line call people fanboys and idiots.

The "candy" I was talking about is not actually "candy". It is very useful features that I posted to quash your "claim" that steam is only about DRM. Again, just because it stops you stealing games is not actually a bad thing.

Own little goldfish bowl? Ok, for starters, if you want even a chance of me taking you seriously, you need to stop the random insults, and yes, you did start it. Second, for the first year of steam, I was on 56k, so actually, I remember quite well what it was like, and for that, I was even more grateful for steams update feature, because, with pages taking up to 30 seconds to load, it was nice not to have to hunt for updates, follow broken download links etc etc.

As for your nephew, if he is so young that he can't grasp what was going on, then he shouldn't have been bought that game.

Bottom line? If these people are only interested in playing a single player game, then they buy it, leave it updating overnight, and play in the morning. If they are gonna sell it after, then theres no problem with that (Hey you accept long downloads with 56k, I did)

If your problem with me is that I don't care, then fair enough, we arn't gonna get along, because I don't care. However, I do care when people fill a forum I like with complaining about something thats not going to change. Life isn't fair, the sooner you deal with this, the better off you will be.


Sorry, your sister can't grasp the fact
"Minuimum requirements"
"Internet connection"
means you need an internet connection? If she smart as you say I doubt that. I suspect you mean that she didn't bother to read the box. Tough shit frankly. Always read the lable

 

[ríomhaire]

As of last year, 75% of the world were still using dialup internet connections, and nearly 30% have no internet connection at all.

Valve's approach with Steam is not a bad idea, just very poorly implemented (at least give people the option of playing a game right out of the box), and at least a few years too early.

Myself, HL2 collected dust for several weeks until I had the time to deal with Steam. I almost didn't bother, unlike many friends of mine who simply returned the game unopened.

1: Your statistics don't make sense
2: They apply to the entire population of the world, including places like ethiopia. Valve are targeting first world gamers, which a much higher proportion of would have broadband.

That said, steam can be a nightmare sometimes with a dial-up connection :bonce: