Underwater and Effects..?

[slap]

The water we have seen so far in HL2 is nothing short of spectacular,
that is, viewing it from above the surface..! Now, can we expect the same refracting effects under the surface of moving water, and also would it be possible for some really nice caustic effects and water bubbles..? My guess is yes, but will we see it in the SP game..! We will have to wait and see..The reason Im asking is that Im going to have to make a really groovy swimming pool for my mod and I dont want cheasy water to spoil it esspecialy as your going to be under the surface a lot..!

 

[Gordon'sFreeman]

watch the docks movie, freeman gets smacked by a zombie and falls into the water, that gives you a rough idea i guess.

 

[Dagobert]

Look at the sticky thread, Gabe has said they have no caustics in HL2, but that it is possible to add.

 

[Vamperic]

I got a better question what if you made a map with a dam and made the wall of the dam destroyable would you be able to cause a flood

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by Vamperic
I got a better question what if you made a map with a dam and made the wall of the dam destroyable would you be able to cause a flood

possibly, but it would have to be coded/scripted, water doesnt flow.

 

[smwScott]

MGS2 had the kind of underwater effects you were talking about. When looking at the surface of the water it was impressive, especially the way objects would float and how it would react to you - but I've never seen underwater done better in any game, I don't think HL2 will change this either.

 

[ferd]

when he falls in the water it becomes troubled...and after a while its clear again...nice imo

 

[simmo]

Originally posted by smwScott
MGS2 had the kind of underwater effects you were talking about. When looking at the surface of the water it was impressive, especially the way objects would float and how it would react to you - but I've never seen underwater done better in any game, I don't think HL2 will change this either.

I agree, MGS2 had brilliant water effects, when I get my new HDD i'm installing it again...shame it takes up 7gigs!!!

 

[Typhon]

also note that in the docks vid, they made the water 100% clear so you could see the zombie that pushed you in...water can actually have different degrees of opacity.

 

[Dagobert]

water can actually have different degrees of opacity.

Yeah, Z-plane fog, like HL1.

I got a better question what if you made a map with a dam and made the wall of the dam destroyable would you be able to cause a flood

Wait ten years, and that will be possible on your home PC.

 

[Typhon]

Wait ten years, and that will be possible on your home PC.

10 years for accurate fluid dynamics, maybe. But if you take out internal activity and just figure out the shape of the overal water body, probably much sooner.

question to ppl who know more about graphics/physics than me: wouldn't it be possible to have basic water in source by using lots of little objects (ok, i guess i'm talking about particles) that follow standard source physics, but instead of rendering them use them as reference points to render fluid?

 

[smwScott]

Maybe something similar to that, but what you're talking about is basically rendering physics for each molecule in the water - impossible on today's PCs. When they do get around to doing accurate water physics then it will render it as a body of water, not individual molecules.

 

[Ghoti]

I don't think that it'd be necessary to work with every dihydrogen monoxide molecule. It should be (relatively) trivial to approximate it.

Make a (for want of a better term) particle that has a kind of 'surface tension' perimeter around it. If any two particles get lcose enough that their surace tensions overlap, then the renderer would merge them into a sort of globule whose shape would be determined by the relative position of the particles.

Hmm, it's hard to get across what I'm picturing verbally, but anyone who has mucked about much at all with Softimage should know what I'm talking about.

 

[Ahnteis]

Originally posted by Typhon
question to ppl who know more about graphics/physics than me: wouldn't it be possible to have basic water in source by using lots of little objects (ok, i guess i'm talking about particles) that follow standard source physics, but instead of rendering them use them as reference points to render fluid? [/B]

you'd have to put some additional constraints in such as viscosity, surface tension, etc. However, as far as I can tell, that would work at least for the physics part. I'm not sure how you'd render it - I imagine some sort of deformable mesh. However, that wouldn't give a very realistic splashing effect unless you had a LOT of particles.

 

[dscowboy]

Ghoti, you're absolutely right, that's currently the best/fastest way to approximate fluid dynamics. Physically simulate a number of spheres but render them as though they were blobs of water. I'd be interested to see if this could be done with a 2.0 shader.

 

[Xei]

http://ign64.ign.com/articles/122/122139p1.html

If the N64 could do half decent dynamic water then I'm sure something far more impressive can be done on modern GFX cards

 

[Dagobert]

Yeah - but remember guys, Valve are about delivering content Gabe constantly talks about tech trade-offs and things being design decisions not tech limitations. Valve are not about trying to make a SIGRAPH paper, they are about making an entertaining mass-market entertainment product. You can bet that they looked at what sort of water they needed, and made it as pretty and fast as it needed to be, and no more or less. That's game development.

 

[csmighty]

ive got a better underwater idea. To make it more "realistic"... notice when you look underwater, what if it was like that in Half life? You could probably get scuba gear or something to see clearly

 

[Animal]

I think postal 2 had basic fluid dynamics, blood and sick would flow downhill!

 

[Dagobert]

wrong.

 

[Ro@cH]

Ghoti's idea is similar to what's being used for the electric wires that get blown up and down by the alien manatee. A few reference points that are actually dynamically influenced by wind/touch and the rest is just filled in by 'springs'. Of course the water surface tension and viscosity would be a bit of a problem. Perhaps some inter-particle 'pull' (like gravity) that would keep them together like real fluids. But let me tell you one thing though: it's gonna be a loooong time before we see dynamically rendered raindrops running down on a glass pane (window) in-game.

 

[Mountain Man]

Originally posted by Xei
http://ign64.ign.com/articles/122/122139p1.html

If the N64 could do half decent dynamic water then I'm sure something far more impressive can be done on modern GFX cards

It's one thing to model fluid dynamics in a small and predictable play field, especially if that's the only thing you have to worry about. Half-Life 2 is doing considerably more than that.