Unreal Engine 3.0 -The Next Evolution In Gaming-

[^Ben]

Hehehe voxels going back there sonny jim!

 

[brink's]

But this doesn't mean that the engine still isn't crap in terms of eye candy. The End...

Well thats your own opinion and you will find that more people then not think HL2s eye candy is very impressive.

 

[El Cid]

I'd just like to know what other "major" FPS's he was talking about that are using the Doom3 engine(other then RTCW2). Almost all "major" FPS's HAVE THERE OWN engine.

 

[Neutrino]

I'd just like to know what other "major" FPS's he was talking about that are using the Doom3 engine(other then RTCW2). Almost all "major" FPS's HAVE THERE OWN engine.

I don't know who you were quoting or what they were talking about but:

- RTCW2 (Known)
- Quake IV (Known)
- The Quest (http://www.gamestar.de/news/pc-spiele/action/16272/ and http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1433)
- Dark Harvest (http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1371)
- Maybe something by Human Head (http://www.ferrago.com/story/1370)

And: http://www.ownt.com/specials/2003/doom3/doom3.shtm

Todd Hollenshead says, engine licensing accounts for 20% of id
Software's revenue.

It's speculation, but based on that statement and the amount of attention surround the D3 engine I'd assume that quite a few companies are going to be after licensing the engine for their games. Of course you can argue that these either are or aren't "major" FPS games. Some may be and others may not. Doesn't really matter to me, but just thought I'd list some possible D3 engine users.

 

[Eywanadi]

Only the programers make any money off the D3 engine licences ... maybe the co-owners but the artists I bet do not see a penny of the money from licensing ... so I find it hard to swallow that ID is in it to make engines only.

 

[Neutrino]

... so I find it hard to swallow that ID is in it to make engines only.

Who said that?

 

[Eywanadi]

Who said that?

I mis-read the post above mine but none the less someone was probably thinking it.

 

[Zoorado]

All I said was the Doom3 engine is 90% of the way to what was shown in the Unreal3 engine movie at E3. Sure it may not be exactly 90% but it is close. The only things U3 has that D3 does not is virtual displasment mapping, multiple cube maps for soft shadow effects (BTW it is a hack and only one shadow from that light can be soft shadowed and even then it has to be a 2d image and not a 3d object.) and HDR lighting ... but that may be allready be in D3.

Face it people ID software was the company that was inovative and re-defined the way games are built not Epic not Valve. It has allways been this way so is anyone really surprised that it happened again?

Well, looks like DOOM 3 now has soft shadows.

And they already look more impressive (softer, smoother, and more realistic) than those in the released UE 3.0 screens, at least IMO. If the soft shadows in DOOM 3 are fully dynamic, per-pixel accurate and unified across the gameworld (which I think it will be), then there's no doubt it blows the next-gen Unreal Engine out of the water, in terms of shadowing techniques.

Robert Duffy mentioned in the PCGamer article that the DOOM 3 engine contains extremely advanced features that no current hardware can render at acceptable framerates, making the engine and the game looks more future-proof. I guess dynamic soft shadowing is probably one such feature.

 

[^Ben]

That is not soft shadowing there.

If you look just under his arm you can see the super hard shadow that the doom engine uses.

Now as i've said doom 3 "can" do soft shadowing but it's a very intensive recourcse hack and pretty frankly looks like crap.

 

[Neutrino]

Well, looks like DOOM 3 now has soft shadows.

And they already look more impressive (softer, smoother, and more realistic) than those in the released UE 3.0 screens, at least IMO. If the soft shadows in DOOM 3 are fully dynamic, per-pixel accurate and unified across the gameworld (which I think it will be), then there's no doubt it blows the next-gen Unreal Engine out of the water, in terms of shadowing techniques.

Robert Duffy mentioned in the PCGamer article that the DOOM 3 engine contains extremely advanced features that no current hardware can render at acceptable framerates, making the engine and the game looks more future-proof. I guess dynamic soft shadowing is probably one such feature.

Lol, there aren't any soft shadows in that pic.

And it's not going to "blow Unreal 3 out of the water." Oh please, Unreal 3 is the next generation engine after Doom3. You can't even compare them.

 

[EVIL]

Lol, there aren't any soft shadows in that pic.

And it's not going to "blow Unreal 3 out of the water." Oh please, Unreal 3 is the next generation engine after Doom3. You can't even compare them.

There are definatly soft shadows in that image, or else you would have the same effect that new HELLKNIGHT wallpaper had on the model.

 

[Eywanadi]

Lol, there aren't any soft shadows in that pic.

Actually taking a close look it looks like the shadow gets soft in the upper left corner ... so maybe ... lets wait and see ...
:cheers:

 

[Neutrino]

Where the heck are you people seeing soft shadows? If your referring to the shadowing on the character model, that's not soft shadowing. Soft shadowing would be if the shadow cast by the character were soft.

Look, Doom 3 is not going to have soft shadowing. Even Ureal 3 has to use a hack that uses interpolation to achieve the effect, and it's not running on today's hardware. You can even see that in the latest techtv video that there is no soft shadowing. The only soft shadows will be projected shadow maps used for things like grates and fans. But those aren't real shadows and won't be all that common.

 

[Zoorado]

Lol, there aren't any soft shadows in that pic.

And it's not going to "blow Unreal 3 out of the water." Oh please, Unreal 3 is the next generation engine after Doom3. You can't even compare them.

Did you even look at the pic? Look at the guy's left forearm. Look at his right arm. Look at his chestplate. Look at the right hand side of the wall (on which his entire body, along with his shotgun casts a really soft shadow). In fact, I can't even spot a single hard-edged shadow being cast on the marine.

 

[Zoorado]

Where the heck are you people seeing soft shadows? If your referring to the shadowing on the character model, that's not soft shadowing. Soft shadowing would be if the shadow cast by the character were soft.

Totally wrong.

 

[Neutrino]

Totally wrong.

Please enlighten us then. Sources would be helpful too.

Because I don't think I am wrong. These are soft shadows:

http://www.ce.chalmers.se/old/staff/tomasm/images/soft2003_balls.jpg

Just like I said. Soft shadowing is when the shadows cast by a model are blurred with distance. The farther the distance the more blurred the shadow becomes. The lighting on the model on the other hand is the interaction of the light itself and the normal map of the model.

Please feel free to ask anybody who knows about these things. Ask one of the mods here. Fenric's a good one as he's in the gaming business. D3's just not going to have soft shadows. Sorry.

 

[^Ben]

Well i can see hard edged shadows in the picture.

And wha i think your getting confuzzled with is self projected softshadows.

 

[Zoorado]

Please enlighten us then. Sources would be helpful too.

Soft shadows are shadows with soft and fuzzy edges. It doesn't matter who or what cast them. Look at other DOOM 3 pics or screenshots. The self-shadowing looks good, but notice that they are always hard-edged. This shot of the DOOM marine is different, in that all the self-shadowing involves soft shadows. In fact, like I mentioned in my previous post, the marine himself does cast a really soft shadow on the right side of the wall (look closely and you'll see).

Furthermore, the UE3 was demonstrated on a 6800 Ultra with smooth framerates, whereas Robert Duffy, in his interview with PCGamer, said that DOOM 3 contains graphical features that no current hardware can support reasonably yet (more details in the upcoming official FAQ). Well, like most engines evolve over time, I guess id merely pre-empted the evolution and incorporated addition state-of-the-art features into the DOOM 3 engine.

Finally, soft shadowing and self shadowing are not mutually exclusive. But if you insist that it is, well, I've nothing more to say.

 

[^Ben]

The UE3 demo was not smooth.

In tight corridors with a small draw distances it was smooth. In the outside levels it was low FPS.

You cant really tell if that is him casting the shadow and it's still not actually soft. (JPG compression anyone?)

If you look just under his arm where the bumpy bit is on his wrist that is a hard edged shadow right there.

Also how did they manage to slink in soft shadowing within a tiny time frame of the last official media coming out.

And why isnt there a big media thing going on?

 

[Neutrino]

Soft shadows are shadows with soft and fuzzy edges. It doesn't matter who or what cast them. Look at other DOOM 3 pics or screenshots. The self-shadowing looks good, but notice that they are always hard-edged. This shot of the DOOM marine is different, in that all the self-shadowing involves soft shadows. In fact, like I mentioned in my previous post, the marine himself does cast a really soft shadow on the right side of the wall (look closely and you'll see).

Furthermore, the UE3 was demonstrated on a 6800 Ultra with smooth framerates, whereas Robert Duffy, in his interview with PCGamer, said that DOOM 3 contains graphical features that no current hardware can support reasonably yet (more details in the upcoming official FAQ). Well, like most engines evolve over time, I guess id merely pre-empted the evolution and incorporated addition state-of-the-art features into the DOOM 3 engine.

Finally, soft shadowing and self shadowing are not mutually exclusive. But if you insist that it is, well, I've nothing more to say.

I still maintain that it's not going to have true soft shadowing. Also, soft shadows are not just "shadows with soft and fuzzy edges". That's just a blurred shadows. A soft shadows changes that amount of "fuzziness" over distance.

I just don't see anything in that pic that really shows soft shadowing. Plus you can't discount the fact that the shadows in the latest movie aren't soft.

 

[Zoorado]

The UE3 demo was not smooth.

In tight corridors with a small draw distances it was smooth. In the outside levels it was low FPS.

Fair enough. But I'm not really concerned with outdoor levels here, since DOOM 3 will not have much outdoors.

You cant really tell if that is him casting the shadow and it's still not actually soft. (JPG compression anyone?)

You can say that about every UE3 screenshot with soft shadows.

If you look just under his arm where the bumpy bit is on his wrist that is a hard edged shadow right there.

Well, it's about as hard-edged as the shadows here.

Also how did they manage to slink in soft shadowing within a tiny time frame of the last official media coming out.

Carmack has been playing with per-pixel floating point features and whatnot since the introduction of R300 and OGL 1.5's fragment and vertex programs. That was at the beginning of 2003. Details can be found in his last .plan update (the very long one).

And why isnt there a big media thing going on?

Cos it can't run or run well on today's high-end hardware, probably.

 

[IchI]

Tbh, I think Neutrino is correct. A Soft shadow would get harder as its close to a wall and softer as it is moved away until it disapears completely.

 

[^Ben]

Im not saying every UE3 screenshot has softshadows.

Im just saying i dont belive doom 3 has them yet.

 

[Zoorado]

I still maintain that it's not going to have true soft shadowing. Also, soft shadows are not just "shadows with soft and fuzzy edges". That's just a blurred shadows. A soft shadows changes that amount of "fuzziness" over distance.

I just don't see anything in that pic that really shows soft shadowing. Plus you can't discount the fact that the shadows in the latest movie aren't soft.

I don't know what is "true" soft shadowing, but if you mean life-like soft shadows generated via bounced lighting or GI, then no, I'm sure DOOM 3 ain't gonna have it. And I don't see the difference between your definition of soft shadows and mine. But never mind.

You choose to believe what you want to believe, I guess. That is, until concrete proof shows up. But it won't be long until that happens, hopefully.

P.S. If current hardware can't render stencil soft shadows or whatever soft shadowing technique id might be using, I doubt they would want to release videos or movies of it running at <10 fps.

Sorry if I seem to be spamming, didn't mean it.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Ichi: with regards to your Source/Doom 3 rant - don't state your opinions as facts. Thanks.

 

[IchI]

Also I am getting pritty sick of everyone...

I can proberly see it been the last game to use...

I...

HL2 will be good, but the engine is the end of its kinda.

Why will first person shotters use textured lighting again? may be for a low budget game, but then again you lot where blabing on about how easy it is to implement. Also the fact that we are talking about major corporation games like ID Valve and Epic and not some random crappy game.

so... I don't get how I tryed to bring it across as fact, its just a speculation about what will happen and is happening. Its also semi opinion as well.

:cheers:

 

[Snakebyte]

A friend and I have decided the best use of the U3 engine would be to make a third-person view dark/moody Diablo 3.
It would be beautiful.

 

[Asuka]

A friend and I have decided the best use of the U3 engine would be to make a third-person view dark/moody Diablo 3.
It would be beautiful.

Diablo 1,2 are the worst games ever. NO SKILL AT ALL TO PLAY. BORING! At least thats my opinion.

 

[IchI]

Diablo 1,2 are the worst games ever. NO SKILL AT ALL TO PLAY. BORING! At least thats my opinion.

LOL, tbh. I have never actually liked them my self. But that doesn't stop them been ****ing amazing.

1. They are made by Blizzard, I can't even remember Blizzard making a bad game...
2. Try asking telling that to the millions of Koreans that still play them as proffesionals (Kinda means your no skill point is.... pointless)