Upgrading my computer

[IchI]

I'm upgrading my computer soon and I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice. The main reason I'm upgrading it is because of Supreme Commander and the fact that it will be very demanding on my computer.

I'm looking to replace my

Motherboard
CPU
Graphics Card

But with all this new Duel core stuff I have completely lost toach with what is good and what is not good. My current system specs are

X800XT PE AGP
K8SE Deluxe
3.2Ghz AMD

I also don't have much money to spend, I believe I should be able to get something solid for around £500 but the extra 1g of ram could be a problem. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone could help me. Just general Info about whats the latest graphics card and what has changed since the x800 came out. Because thats about when I lost my life to World of Warcraft and completely didn't do anything else

 

[Majestic XII]

I have:

Asus P5W DH
Intel Core 2 Duo (conroe) E6600
Geforce 7900GT
(But you have to change to DDR2 memory since the AMD system you have doesnt use DDR2)

I don't know what it all will cost so you have to check that out. But it's a good setup and it overclocks really well.

 

[IchI]

I did some looking around and I found this, what do you think?

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ (Socket 939)
Asus A8N-SLi Premium nForce4 SLi (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard
GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC3200 Value Dual Channel Kit CAS3
£312.97 £312.97

Sapphire ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express)
£194.99 £194.99

Subtotal £507.96
VAT £88.90
Total £596.86

Its a little over budget. ANy recommendations where I can cut costs and still achieve performance?

 

[IchI]

REVISION

Sapphire ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express)
£194.99 £194.99

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ 2.20GHz (Socket AM2)
£109.99 £109.99

Asus CROSSHAIR nForce 590 SLi (Socket AM2) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
£134.99 £134.99

GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC5300 667MHz Value DDR2 Dual Channel
£119.99 £119.99

Subtotal £559.96
VAT £98.00
Total £657.96

Now, thats gone even higher over the budget. But thats my new standing point to work from. Getting items a little cheaper by buying better products that are most likly or hopfully just as good, but cheaper.

 

[giant384]

REVISION

Sapphire ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express)
£194.99 £194.99

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ 2.20GHz (Socket AM2)
£109.99 £109.99

Asus CROSSHAIR nForce 590 SLi (Socket AM2) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
£134.99 £134.99

GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC5300 667MHz Value DDR2 Dual Channel
£119.99 £119.99

Subtotal £559.96
VAT £98.00
Total £657.96

Now, thats gone even higher over the budget. But thats my new standing point to work from. Getting items a little cheaper by buying better products that are most likly or hopfully just as good, but cheaper.

that looks great to me. hope you have a decent psu though.

 

[IchI]

that looks great to me. hope you have a decent psu though.

How mant watts would I be looking at needing?

 

[giant384]

How mant watts would I be looking at needing?

at least 500w with 28amps on the 12v+ rail. if you dont know what a rail is just say so.

 

[IchI]

rail? wtf... Do I have to have them specific things or will be a 500w power suply just do?

 

[The Brick]

Hold on, Athlon has been beaten by Intel at this moment. A new cpu from Intel (core 2 duo) is the best choice on all fronts at this moment. The cheapest Core 2 Duo cpu is the e6300. It's about £125 and it's as fast as a Athlon x2 4600+. The best thing about it is that it overclocks up to 100% with the right motherboard. I seriously, from the bottom of my heart, recommend that processor. But excellent motherboards for high overclocks can be quite expensive and you need extra cooling as well. With a proper motherboard you can easily overclock it to 60% higher speeds on stock cooling and core voltage.
You should be looking for the Asus P5B (deluxe version if you want to overclock even further) or the Gigabyte GA-P965-S3 (best bang for the buck).

Although I recommend you wait untill the prices of the memory have dropped. They increased with over 50% over the last 4 weeks :| The OCZ 2gb pc6400 800mhz is a really good choice. But it's way too expensive (as is all the other memory) at the moment. I have no idea when the prices will drop again.

A Sapphire X1900GT will do perfectly untill you upgrade to DX10. It can easily be OC'ed to XT speeds and it's quite a bit cheaper than the XT version. The extra 256mb on the XT card is not necessary.

A PSU rated 450W or higher would do fine. Just make sure you get it from a well known brand (other people here know which ones are good).

(Note that all products I mentioned are hyperlinks)


EDIT:

You should be able to get that for £50 less once the memory prices are back to normal.

 

[Bastion]

CORE 2 DUO!!!

Hey my X1900GT OCed did 15569 in 3dmark2003 and 9534 in 3dmark2005. Its a good card man.

 

[Barney Fife]

I would say; Wait till more better Conroe compatible MBs come out, or current socket 775 BIOS are updated, to get the 60/100% overclock-ability mentioned.
Right now, only very few, very expensive MBs support and can reach the 60-100% Conroe overclock-ability. A cheap, non-updated MB will not give you a stable result when OCing. Mind as well that; Conroe's upper/lower multipliers are still locked (The original Intel mistake still continues with Conroe).

Or you can upgrade to socket 939 X2 4400+/4800+ and OC to the top of the line X2 62 and above. meaning dual 2.8GHz-3GHz. You have countless choices of MBs, MB components, BIOS (Beta and final), Memories Etc. in socket 939, and its the buyers market when Conroe is the sellers market.

As far as memory goes: You can get dual-channel PC 3200, believe me you won't notice the difference, and you can save lots of money.

If you like to get your hands on the cutting-edge of the technology and you have the money and time is one thing, if you like to get a decent setup and still save money is another.

Most games (Current and future) will not ask you a CPU power, they're not CPU dependent, but GPU dependent. Including the upcoming Crysis. (If that's what you intent to use the setup for)

I seriously doubt Crysis will ask for 3GHz CPU and PC6400.

I seriously think that my setup can run Crysis in very decent Frame-rate.

So read between my lines and be smart. These people will sell you anything you ask for, whether you need it or not. It's you, who have to be smart. Get what you need and not what you want.

My (754) 3400+, my AGP 6800 Ultra and my NF3 LP Ultra are still kicking the ass of COD2, HL2, Sin and FEAR.

So shop smart, not lavishly.

Good Luck.

 

[The Brick]

The ones I mentioned are excellent ones. Get one of those. The ASUS P5B one does have an unlocked multiplier for Core 2 Duo (for now it's only possible to lower the multiplier, ASUS said that upping the multiplier should be possible with some chips and/or future BIOS updates). But do note that lowering the multiplier and having a really high FSB give better results than the other way around.

Games are getting cpu depending. Having a fast cpu will exclude slowdowns caused by the cpu. Better to have the GPU bottleneck the system; lowering the graphics solves that problem. You can't help a cpu limited slowdown.
It's more like this; The e6300 runs current games without too much slowdown, but next gen games can become a problem (crysis, UT2007). Then it's a good idea to look into the overclocking capability of your cpu. It'll last you another 2 years atleast.

About the ram, I'm sure I read an article recently testing the performance difference between different ram speeds. Also, you need good ram for it to keep up with the system OC.

"shopping smart" would be to go for Core 2 Duo right now. The mobo's I mentioned also support the shortly upcoming quad core cpus.

 

[-Psy-]

The 512mb version seems pointless unless your going to be running all your games on high and in a uber-high resolution.

Just stick with the 256MB version which can be bought for £150.

 

[Barney Fife]

The ones I mentioned are excellent ones. Get one of those. The ASUS P5B one does have an unlocked multiplier for Core 2 Duo

Yes for over $200. I did say very few and very expensive MB are compatible with Conroe's overclock-ability.

(for now it's only possible to lower the multiplier, ASUS said that upping the multiplier should be possible with some chips and/or future BIOS updates). But do note that lowering the multiplier and having a really high FSB give better results than the other way around.

And I did say that you have to have an up-to-date MB and her BIOS to achieve solid, stable OC. Also having a one side of the multiplier unlocked does not grantee you the freedom to a stable. Having OC-ed over 50 CPUs (AMD & Intel) do dictate to have everything Unlocked including V-core and AGP&PCIe bus. That's why I like and recommend DFI boards.

Games are getting cpu depending. Having a fast cpu will exclude slowdowns caused by the cpu. Better to have the GPU bottleneck the system; lowering the graphics solves that problem. You can't help a cpu limited slowdown.

No BOSS! I have to disagree with you on that; YOU CAN ACTUALLY PLAY with decent frames (Over 50) even if you’re CPU falls below the game’s specific requirements (Not much), that is; If your GPU matches the difference (meaning a very good V-Card) So you’re absolutely wrong there.

It's more like this; The e6300 runs current games without too much slowdown, but next gen games can become a problem (crysis, UT2007). Then it's a good idea to look into the overclocking capability of your cpu. It'll last you another 2 years atleast.

Though we don’t know what Crysis requirements are, I very much doubt the game will ask any more than 2.6GHz tops. Even then, you can still be able to play at 2.4GHz if your GPU is decent. I have done it (We all have done it) too many times. You can actually fall below CPU requirement if you have a decent GPU.

About the ram, I'm sure I read an article recently testing the performance difference between different ram speeds. Also, you need good ram for it to keep up with the system OC.

Yes, you do need good RAMS to OC, but PC3200 are still very decent and you can tell this by comparing prices on both (PC3200 & PC6400) but your eyes and mind, 3Dmark and Prime95 cannot tell the difference, and you will get the same score in games. Sandra may.

"shopping smart" would be to go for Core 2 Duo right now. The mobo's I mentioned also support the shortly upcoming quad core cpus.

You, Undercover-FanBoy.

 

[IchI]

Hmmmmmm, well... thanks for the help. I'm not much of an overclockering person. I have done it before but I profer to keep things as I buy them. This way I can rely on there reliability.

I will looking into the Intel and Memory.

When DX10 comes out will there be new graphics cards for this?

its anoying how there is always something new.

 

[hungryduck]

Hmmmmmm, well... thanks for the help. I'm not much of an overclockering person. I have done it before but I profer to keep things as I buy them. This way I can rely on there reliability.

I will looking into the Intel and Memory.

When DX10 comes out will there be new graphics cards for this?

its anoying how there is always something new.

Yes, DX10 will require brand new graphics cards to utilize all of its fancy new features. So I would buy a mediocre DX9 card now and get a nice shiny DX10 Card later.
There is always new stuff; welcome to the world of technology.

 

[The Brick]

Yes for over $200. I did say very few and very expensive MB are compatible with Conroe's overclock-ability.

I recommend Core 2 Duo because they OC so well. I told you before. If you want to overclock you also need a proper mobo. The Gigabyte GA-965P-S3 is a cheap mobo for the performance it delivers at overclocking. Indeed it does not have an unlocked multiplier (yet?), but a 60% is easily feasible. It indeed does not take full potential of the conroe chip, but that's not what you should be expecting from a $110 mobo. They together are about $300 and, when OC'ed, will beat the FX-62 with ease.

And I did say that you have to have an up-to-date MB and her BIOS to achieve solid, stable OC. Also having a one side of the multiplier unlocked does not grantee you the freedom to a stable. Having OC-ed over 50 CPUs (AMD & Intel) do dictate to have everything Unlocked including V-core and AGP&PCIe bus. That's why I like and recommend DFI boards.

The gigabyte is stable (if it weren't it wouldn't be so popular and I wouldn't recommend it) and especially the P5B with the newest BIOS go up high with stable results. Also, as I said, the core 2 duo chips deliver better performance and stability if you lower the multiplier and use a very high fsb. So technically you don't even want to have a higher multiplier if you are looking for the fastest results.

IchI said he doesn't really care much about OCing. If you don't plan to OC at all, both AMD and Intel are good choices. The stock performance is pretty much equal (looking at cpus under $300).

No BOSS! I have to disagree with you on that; YOU CAN ACTUALLY PLAY with decent frames (Over 50) even if you’re CPU falls below the game’s specific requirements (Not much), that is; If your GPU matches the difference (meaning a very good V-Card) So you’re absolutely wrong there.

... having a fast GPU won't help a slow CPU. YOU are wrong there. On my pc (sempron 2800+, 1gb ddr400, 9600XT) I can't play quake4. Simply because my cpu is too slow. No matter how low I put the graphics on, it won't help. That was when I had a gf4 ti 4200. Replacing it with a 9600XT didn't do anything. I can play the game on medium/high detail just as well as I can on the lowest possible settings (tweaking included). Just as with Css. There are some situations for which my cpu is just too slow to keep the fps above 45 (rare, but annoying).

Though we don’t know what Crysis requirements are, I very much doubt the game will ask any more than 2.6GHz tops. Even then, you can still be able to play at 2.4GHz if your GPU is decent. I have done it (We all have done it) too many times. You can actually fall below CPU requirement if you have a decent GPU.

I think the crysis engine will be pretty cpu intensive because of all the technical stuff it supports. If crysis is very effecient with dual cores, slower cpus might keep up if they have 2 cores. I think that if you still have a single core cpu lower than 3ghz (intel) or 3000+(amd), you'll be in trouble.

SP games at high detail tend to be limited to the GPU. Ofcourse the avarage fps will indeed go up if you have a faster gpu, but the min fps won't change noticibly. In multiplayer games that can be very annoying in hectic situations.

Yes, you do need good RAMS to OC, but PC3200 are still very decent and you can tell this by comparing prices on both (PC3200 & PC6400) but your eyes and mind, 3Dmark and Prime95 cannot tell the difference, and you will get the same score in games. Sandra may.

I'm not sure about this. I'll try to find the article (I picked it up somewhere on this forum). I'd be happy to agree if I'm proven wrong. I can't exactly remember the conclusions of the article, just that they made me sure that I wanted the OCZ pc6400.

You, Undercover-FanBoy.

Dude, told you I'm not. And I really ain't. Shut up ok? I find it kinda insulting. You are the one with lame reasons ("amd has more mobos to choose from!") and ungrounded claims ("intel cpus don't OC stably!").
I just look at the products. I don't look far into the future that AMD might strike back, and I don't look at the past that AMD was over Intel's head for a long time and how good they were for gamers. I look at what is on the market today, what is known about it and what are the better choices.

I still don't see why AMD would be a better choice if you buy a complete new system.

 

[Barney Fife]

Dude, told you I'm not. And I really ain't. Shut up ok? I find it kinda insulting.

Hehe! Why would you shut me up? What did I say to insult you? By calling you a FanBoy? Did I step on one of your nerves? And how is the name "Fanboy" an insult? We are all a FanBoy in one way or the other. Which Football team is your favorite? Chelsea? Then you are a Chelsea FanBoy. You like HL2? Yes? Then you're a HL2 FanBoy.

As a matter of fact, you've got "FanBoy" written on all over one of your posts. Just read it thorough and see, how you were convincing others, so dear hearted, and from the bottom of your heart, to go and buy something you know people will get stuck with (if they want to get the "100%" overclock-ability you have mentioned), and over-spend with components to get it work, without giving any benefit to any other option, or at least showing comparison to other CPUs. That (In my dictionary) is called "FanBoy".
If my indication is right and serves me well; I would say that you Mr. The Brick, never owned or ever bought, neither used an AMD chip, since your last 2800+ you mentioned, and always have been an Intel user and a FanBoy. So help me God.

Hold on, Athlon has been beaten by Intel at this moment. A new cpu from Intel (core 2 duo) is the best choice on all fronts at this moment. The cheapest Core 2 Duo cpu is the e6300. It's about £125 and it's as fast as a Athlon x2 4600+. The best thing about it is that it overclocks up to 100% with the right motherboard. I seriously, from the bottom of my heart, recommend that processor.

You're the only one who doesn't know that you're a Conroe Fanboy or physic by it even though you don't even own a Conroe yet. Nothing is wrong with being a Fanboy, matter of fact Halflife2.net was created by bunch of HL2 Fanboys.

I'll be there with you as Conore Fanboy, not now, maybe late next year or so, and we will be two happy Conroe fanboys.:bounce: :bounce:

So go ahead and shut me up again. :naughty:

Maybe you cut down the Streptococcus mutans, its making you jumpy.

 

[The Brick]

Yeah I'm a best-products-fanboy..

You did step on my nerves by implying I'm making irrational decisions and ignorantly holding onto a 'name'. That is a fanboy as far as I know. I could perfectly link any article to a mentioned plusside. This is why I believe Core 2 Duo is the better cpu today. This is why I recommend the lower end Core 2 Duo cpus and overclocking them. This is why I especially recommend the Asus P5B deluxe mainboard for people who really want a good OC result. This is a guide to succesfully OC a Core 2 Duo cpu.

I don't like football and I certainly did not like/enjoy Half-life 2 as much as the rest around here seems to.. I like this community and that is why I'm here. You could call me a Valve fanboy.. I love them to death, but only because they seem to make mostly right decisions. I play the games that I enjoy most, not the ones made by the people I love for what they did in the past. And that is with everything, including hardware. I'm sharing my view on what IMO are the best choices to make when buying a new pc.

I've had (around) and used (or still do) a Pentium 2 233mmx, Celeron 433mhz, pentium 3 800mhz, Duron 700, athlon 1400, celeron 2.4ghz, athlon xp 2500+, sempron 2800+, pentium 4 3ghz and an amd64 4000+. I liked every one of them.

I believe Conroe is a great cpu because of all the test results I've seen and all the positive feedback I've heard and read.

Hl2.net being made by a fanboy does in no way make visitors and members fanboys in any way. I don't see your point.

We're not gonna be Intel fanboys together. I'll leave you do it on yourself. I'd recommend AMD or any brand, name or product if they prove themself to be the best.


About the mutants, I'm working on it, but they breed like bunnies. I'll have to eat them untill I find a way to kill them.

 

[Barney Fife]

Sorry that your nerves were stepped on, I was simply trying to humor you but obviously you seem to missing it.
I never said you were irrationally and ignorantly holding to a name, but rather said you were lacking the comparison, (The ups and downs of Conroe).
Example: The P5B board you have mentioned, isn’t even a true SLI board, doesn’t like most memory modules, Conroe HSF is next to crap, and since too many transistors overcrowding the socket, its hard to install HSF, if one intents to upgrade. And yeah, the board is also overpriced.
Please read the actual Board reviews of people who actually bought and used P5B boards, they will tell the true story. Not the CPU reviews of how Conroe is Ocing,
Because Conroe reviews aren’t about boards and the boards layout, they’re about the chip and how’s its Ocing.
No doubt Conroe is the best CPU at the moment, but it’s too immature to jump up and say “Holy Conroe!!!” I got to get me one of these freaky chips” All I’m saying as I have always said is to “Hold on, and wait it out. Let it mature a little”.
Remember Xbox 360? How people camped out at local stores? lining up days prior to its release? Just to find (With their big grin) that Xbox 360 couldn’t even load most of the games, because glitches and bugs? And they were hit with huge disappointments? Same thing is what I’m forewarning.
Because you don’t like Football and never enjoyed HL2 is the problem, and yeah those Mutants you’re overdosed with and over ate, is what’s getting the best of you.
But I don’t think Valve owns this community or had anything to do with its creation, but rather created by people like you and me so Fanboyed that they created a place called Halflife2.net so you and me can meet and argue the time away.

Hl2.net being made by a fanboy does in no way make visitors and members fanboys in any way. I don't see your point.

People like you and me who loved the game (HL2) so much they created a full and complete website so everyone (HL2 Fanboy or not) can benefit from, is the point.

About the mutants, I'm working on it, but they breed like bunnies. I'll have to eat them untill I find a way to kill them.

Oh Man! I thought we had something in common and be Fanboy friends and the create more Fanboys and then build a site called www.ConroeCore2DuoTheBrick&Barneyfanboys.net

Anyway I’m kind of getting this Conroe thing a little tired of and I know you are too, so I’m out.

Good Luck.

 

[IchI]

Okies I had a look around and I came up with this:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ 2.20GHz (Socket AM2)
£114.99 £114.99

GeIL 1GB (2x512MB) PC5300 667MHz Value DDR2 Dual Channel Kit
£69.99 £69.99

Asus M2N32 WS Pro nForce 590 SLi (Socket AM2) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
£154.99 £154.99

Connect3D ATI Radeon X1800 XT 256MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express)
£109.99 £109.99

Subtotal £449.96
VAT £78.75
Total £528.71

Basiclly, I got a solid motherboard that will hopfully last, I got a solid CPU that isn't the best but I don't want to be spending more money on it. I only got 1gb of ram to save me some money for the moment. I also only got a x1800 XT as as far as I can tell there isn't much different between the x1800 and x1900 apart from Pixel Shader Units, whatever that is.

The future plan is to buy 1 more GB of ram and also a new dx10 graphics card when they come out and drop in price a little may be. What do you think?