US caught in nuke lie ...again

[CptStern]

"In an effort to increase pressure on North Korea, the Bush administration told its Asian allies in briefings earlier this year that Pyongyang had exported nuclear material to Libya. That was a significant new charge, the first allegation that North Korea was helping to create a new nuclear weapons state.

But that is not what U.S. intelligence reported, according to two officials with detailed knowledge of the transaction. North Korea, according to the intelligence, had supplied uranium hexafluoride -- which can be enriched to weapons-grade uranium -- to Pakistan. It was Pakistan, a key U.S. ally with its own nuclear arsenal, that sold the material to Libya. The U.S. government had no evidence, the officials said, that North Korea knew of the second transaction.


Pakistan's role as both the buyer and the seller was concealed to cover up the part played by Washington's partner in the hunt for al Qaeda leaders, according to the officials, who discussed the issue on the condition of anonymity. In addition, a North Korea-Pakistan transfer would not have been news to the U.S. allies, which have known of such transfers for years and viewed them as a business matter between sovereign states.


The Bush administration's approach, intended to isolate North Korea, instead left allies increasingly doubtful as they began to learn that the briefings omitted essential details about the transaction, U.S. officials and foreign diplomats said in interviews. North Korea responded to public reports last month about the briefings by withdrawing from talks with its neighbors and the United States. "

source


ah the propaganda machine wheel's are spinning. Thankfully because of past outright lies the global community are taking it all with a grain of salt




lies make baby jesus cry

 

[seinfeldrules]

-In 1987-88, Iran is believed to have bought up to 100 Scud-B missiles from North Korea, adding to missiles and launchers already bought from Libya and Syria.

-North Korea is also believed to have helped supply technology for Iran to build its own Scuds.

-Syria reportedly acquired 150 Scud-Cs along with launchers from North Korea in 1991.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2002/021211-scud01.htm

Washington --- North Korea declared publicly for the first time Thursday it had built nuclear weapons,

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2005/050211-korea-nukes.htm

According to a report which the Seoul-based Korean Institute for Defence Analyses released in April, North Korea has exported at least 540 missiles to Libya, Iraq and other Middle East countries since 1985.


...

Libya recently bought 50 Rodong-1 missiles with a range of 1,000 kilometres. Cash starved North Korea* has not hesitated to sell weapons to whoever wants to buy them, including terrorist groups. A video of an attack last year by the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam on a Sri Lankan navy vessel shows speedboats which appeared to be of North Korean origin. The rebels also appeared to be using a North Korean variant of the Russian 107 millimetre Katysha rocket launcher. And in late 1990, North Korea sold Burma 20 million rounds Of 7.62 millimetre rifle ammunition, which intelligence sources say ended up in the hands of the United Wa State Army, a drug-trafficking group which is active in the Burmese sector of the golden triangle.

http://www.asiapacificms.com/articles/northkorea/
*I guess they arent too 'cash starved' to spend 14% of their GDP on their military... Man what a peaceloving country they are!

Hmmmm, I wonder why the US was willing to prematurely release these claims, its not like NK hasnt done stuff like this before...

 

[staticprimer]

Stern is not saying that North Korea has no Nuclear Weapons, or that it has never sold materials to other countries. What he is saying is that in this case our government lied about their (North Korea's) actions. Those quotes do not provide a proper defense to this.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Those quotes do not provide a proper defense to this.

I was merely attempting to show the mentality the US has come to take when dealing with NK. This report even refers to the briefing as being 'hastily' put together. Sorry, but one mistake doesnt excuse NK from a clearly rotten past.

 

[staticprimer]

Well last time the government made a mistake about nuclear weapons, we went to war based on those mistakes. And nobody is excusing North Korea of anything.

 

[jondy]

I was merely attempting to show the mentality the US has come to take when dealing with NK. This report even refers to the briefing as being 'hastily' put together. Sorry, but one mistake doesnt excuse NK from a clearly rotten past.

The mistake was American, not Korean.

And, evidently, it wasn't a 'mistake'

 

[Razor]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2002/021211-scud01.htm



http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2005/050211-korea-nukes.htm


http://www.asiapacificms.com/articles/northkorea/
*I guess they arent too 'cash starved' to spend 14% of their GDP on their military... Man what a peaceloving country they are!

Hmmmm, I wonder why the US was willing to prematurely release these claims, its not like NK hasnt done stuff like this before...

America has also sold such items to some very nasty people, who was it that sold Stinger missiles to Osama Bin Laden in the Afghan war against the Soviet Union? it wasn't North Korea you know. Who's companies helped to manufacture chemical plants in Iraq in the 1980's Iran - Iraq war to help manufacture chemical weapons? it wasn't North Korea. Who was it that trained up and equipped exciles and criminals and helped them stage an invasion of Cuba? it wasn't North Korea.

 

[Cole]

God damnit...
Blame Bush

A truley great country can go to war and at the exact same time act as if it dosn't want to. - Eric Cartman

 

[Solaris]

Lies to jusitfy yet another war.

 

[seinfeldrules]

America has also sold such items to some very nasty people, who was it that sold Stinger missiles to Osama Bin Laden in the Afghan war against the Soviet Union? it wasn't North Korea you know. Who's companies helped to manufacture chemical plants in Iraq in the 1980's Iran - Iraq war to help manufacture chemical weapons? it wasn't North Korea. Who was it that trained up and equipped exciles and criminals and helped them stage an invasion of Cuba? it wasn't North Korea.

And because of that I'm sure you have no problem laying the blame on America anytime a similar story comes up, even before all the evidence is in. This is going to be a rallying cry for everyone who hates America, claiming that we unjustly accused NK of doing this horrendous act. Doing this will allow them to shift attention away from the real threat NK is.

And I think selling the weapons to Osama at the time was a valid cause. Do you expect us to have a crystal ball looking into the future?

 

[ray_MAN]

Bush will use any excuse to go to war/ make enemies. I hate him.

 

[Razor]

And because of that I'm sure you have no problem laying the blame on America anytime a similar story comes up, even before all the evidence is in. This is going to be a rallying cry for everyone who hates America, claiming that we unjustly accused NK of doing this horrendous act. Doing this will allow them to shift attention away from the real threat NK is.

And I think selling the weapons to Osama at the time was a valid cause. Do you expect us to have a crystal ball looking into the future?

Osama was then a very bad man and still is a very bad man, same with Saddam Hussein.

My point of view is that America should just butt out and allow South Korea, China and the other Asian nations to fix their problems, or allow the UN to come and help. America has no business telling the North Korean's whether they can or can't have nuclear weapons.

 

[CptStern]

Stern is not saying that North Korea has no Nuclear Weapons, or that it has never sold materials to other countries. What he is saying is that in this case our government lied about their (North Korea's) actions. Those quotes do not provide a proper defense to this.

yes thank you, I dont see how anyone could have interpreted my statements otherwise :thumbs:

seinfeldrules the point is that the US is looking for justifications to start a war with north korea ..are you willing to sacrifice thousands of american lives based on false intelligence?

 

[jimbo118]

doesnt surprise me,remember the u.n meeting where colin powell set down the 'evidence' for military action againsy iraq

 

[CptStern]

doesnt surprise me,remember the u.n meeting where colin powell set down the 'evidence' for military action againsy iraq

heh, ya funny how they had all forgotten about this


I dont know about you guys but this trend of lying to start an invasion is pretty scary. NK wont be a pushover

 

[jimbo118]

heh, ya funny how they had all forgotten about this


I dont know about you guys but this trend of lying to start an invasion is pretty scary. NK wont be a pushover

that link just makes me angry i actually saw it before but what can we do?,bush wants to create a new world order as said by the great journalist robert frisk,you know of him stern?

 

[CptStern]

ya here's a good article by Fisk ..I love the opening line:

Oil, War And A Growing Sense Of Panic In The US

Don't tell me that America would have invaded Iraq if its chief export was beetroot...

 

[jimbo118]

ya here's a good article by Fisk ..I love the opening line:

Oil, War And A Growing Sense Of Panic In The US

Don't tell me that America would have invaded Iraq if its chief export was beetroot...

yeah fisk is a legend,he lives in ireland and i met him,woot

 

[seinfeldrules]

seinfeldrules the point is that the US is looking for justifications to start a war with north korea ..are you willing to sacrifice thousands of american lives based on false intelligence?

How about all the other incidents I provided? What about NK's self admitance of possessing nukes? My point was 1 mistake shouldnt be used to smother out all the other examples.

Osama was then a very bad man

However, hye was fighting the Soviets at the time. I dont believe he had time before this to establish much of a reputation for himself.

 

[Razor]

How about all the other incidents I provided? What about NK's self admitance of possessing nukes? My point was 1 mistake shouldnt be used to smother out all the other examples.


However, hye was fighting the Soviets at the time. I dont believe he had time before this to establish much of a reputation for himself.

Why do you care if they have nuclear weapons?

 

[jondy]

How about all the other incidents I provided? What about NK's self admitance of possessing nukes? My point was 1 mistake shouldnt be used to smother out all the other examples.

Like I said, this is an American mistake, and it isn't a mistake at all.

 

[CptStern]

How about all the other incidents I provided? What about NK's self admitance of possessing nukes? My point was 1 mistake shouldnt be used to smother out all the other examples.

so you'll also go after these countries?

United States
Israel
United Kingdom
Russia
China
France
India
Pakistan


while you're at it, you may want to look at these as well, since they have the capability:

Libya
Argentina
Brazil
South Africa
South Korea
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Algeria
Former Soviet States
Ukraine
Kazakhstan
Belarus
Australia
Canada
Germany
Japan
Netherlands

 

[seinfeldrules]

Why do you care if they have nuclear weapons?

Are you aware who their leader is? Call Bush all the names you want, but he is nowhere close to Kim Jong Il. This is the one country in the world that possesses nuclear weapons that we should be scared shitless over. Iran is a joke, they are nothing compared to NK. Unless they decide to nuke Israel I dont see them as a major threat, unlike NK. NK is ruled by a complete nutjob in control of a ridiculously stong army.

so you'll also go after these countries?

These countries also arent on the verge of internal collapse. They put all their money into military power and leave none for their people. That is a dangerous game to be playing for too long. If you think Bush would use nukes, then you are out of your mind. Are you avoiding the other numerous incidents where NK has been caught?

Like I said, this is an American mistake, and it isn't a mistake at all.

How do you know it wasnt a mistake? Also, nobody said it wasnt anybody's mistake except America's.

 

[CptStern]

These countries also arent on the verge of internal collapse. They put all their money into military power and leave none for their people.

? there's dozens of countries that do the same ...technically the US also does that ...156 billion on iraq yet 55 million americans have no health care. dear god!!! that's grounds for an invasion!!!

That is a dangerous game to be playing for too long.

what are you talking about?

If you think Bush would use nukes, then you are out of your mind.

what country would gladly face annihilation? you're being unreasonable

Are you avoiding the other numerous incidents where NK has been caught?

caught doing what? overthrowing small countries? torturing people? killing innocents? ...do I really need to draw comparisons?

How do you know it wasnt a mistake? Also, nobody said it wasnt anybody's mistake except America's.

you are so quick to avoid the obvious, you cant for the life of you see not an iota of fault in your government ...you'll make a poor intelligence agent (or perhaps the right kind)

 

[clarky003]

heh, ya funny how they had all forgotten about this


I dont know about you guys but this trend of lying to start an invasion is pretty scary. NK wont be a pushover

the kind of thing little kids do when they cant think of any other feasble way to get what they want, shame on you bush and blair.

 

[seinfeldrules]

? there's dozens of countries that do the same ...technically the US also does that ...156 billion on iraq yet 55 million americans have no health care. dear god!!! that's grounds for an invasion!!!

You're comparing NK's domestic issues with that of America's? That is so laughable.

what are you talking about?

Being a total dictator wont last. Spending all your money on the military wont last without a war. NK is playing a dangerous game by ignoring their civilians and placing all their resources into the military. They are putting all their eggs in one basket.

what country would gladly face annihilation? you're being unreasonable

No country. There is a line between self defense and offense though. If they were really self defense why do they need ballistic missles to carry them on? Missles in range of Japan, parts of the US, and Taiwan.

caught doing what? overthrowing small countries? torturing people? killing innocents? ...do I really need to draw comparisons?

Setting aside 22 billion dollars for international aid, setting up free elections? Yeah, I dont think there is a comparision.

you are so quick to avoid the obvious, you cant for the life of you see not an iota of fault in your government ...you'll make a poor intelligence agent (or perhaps the right kind)

Hell, I've admitted at least 3 times our gov't made a mistake in this thread alone. I am saying that one mistake shouldnt be used to blanket all the evidence as propoganda.

 

[Kebean PFC]

What is with all the anti US stuff here folks? Jeeze give it a break, you act like everything that goes wrong with the world is our fault and when we try to fix it you bitch at us too. Damn, give it a rest.

I dont know about you guys but this trend of lying to start an invasion is pretty scary. NK wont be a pushover

Niether will we. And I don't think our intent is to start another war, just to prevent something worse that any of us have ever experienced. Would you really want to face the prospect of a Nuclear weapon launch on ANY country? I didn't think so, that Kim Jong guy is unstable, his military wants to fight, they have been sitting around for so long, who knows what he'll do.

Originally Posted by CptStern
ya here's a good article by Fisk ..I love the opening line:

Oil, War And A Growing Sense Of Panic In The US

Don't tell me that America would have invaded Iraq if its chief export was beetroot...

Damn Straight. Lets face it, oil was the cause of that war, but do you look at the posative affects of AMERICAN deaths on your oil price? Yes folks, gas prices keep going up, but only becuase the companies are so greedy. We have a stable supply of oil now, or would you rather a dictator in control of one of the worlds last great oil reserves. Oh wait, let me think... We should have left him alone, then when he hiked his price and gasoline cost $10/gallon, you would complain that we should have went in there and removed him from power. That right... it is always the United States fault, no matter what we do.

caught doing what? overthrowing small countries? torturing people? killing innocents? ...do I really need to draw comparisons?

Wow, killing innocents huh? Well if they wouldnt keep trying to RESIST US THEN THEY WOULDN'T DIE NOW WOULD THEY??? And yes, inocents always die in war. Do you even understand the concept of war? It is not a game, there are no respawns, so you don't take chances. If little sally is running at you with a grenade in hand, would you shoot her, or both die?

The News will report "US soldiers shoot elderly lady in Baghdad, relatives angered and confused...She was just going to the store..." What they don't tell you is that Yes, she was going to the store... to buy another box of ammo for her rifle, so she can continue to take potshots at US soldiers.


Kinda got off on a tangent there, but... oh well nm. CPT Stern you get me so pissed off at times, becuase you do not see things from both sides, your view is so locked that... ahh well, forget about it. Lets just say your not my fav guy at times... oh well, ill call it quits on this thread :cheers:

 

[CptStern]

What is with all the anti US stuff here folks? Jeeze give it a break, you act like everything that goes wrong with the world is our fault and when we try to fix it you bitch at us too. Damn, give it a rest.


Niether will we. And I don't think our intent is to start another war, just to prevent something worse that any of us have ever experienced. Would you really want to face the prospect of a Nuclear weapon launch on ANY country? I didn't think so, that Kim Jong guy is unstable, his military wants to fight, they have been sitting around for so long, who knows what he'll do.


Damn Straight. Lets face it, oil was the cause of that war, but do you look at the posative affects of AMERICAN deaths on your oil price? Yes folks, gas prices keep going up, but only becuase the companies are so greedy. We have a stable supply of oil now, or would you rather a dictator in control of one of the worlds last great oil reserves. Oh wait, let me think... We should have left him alone, then when he hiked his price and gasoline cost $10/gallon, you would complain that we should have went in there and removed him from power. That right... it is always the United States fault, no matter what we do.


Wow, killing innocents huh? Well if they wouldnt keep trying to RESIST US THEN THEY WOULDN'T DIE NOW WOULD THEY??? And yes, inocents always die in war. Do you even understand the concept of war? It is not a game, there are no respawns, so you don't take chances. If little sally is running at you with a grenade in hand, would you shoot her, or both die?

The News will report "US soldiers shoot elderly lady in Baghdad, relatives angered and confused...She was just going to the store..." What they don't tell you is that Yes, she was going to the store... to buy another box of ammo for her rifle, so she can continue to take potshots at US soldiers.


Kinda got off on a tangent there, but... oh well nm. CPT Stern you get me so pissed off at times, becuase you do not see things from both sides, your view is so locked that... ahh well, forget about it. Lets just say your not my fav guy at times... oh well, ill call it quits on this thread :cheers:

wouldnt take too much effort to debunk pretty much every point you've made ...but I dont have the energy or the will to rehash everything I've stated in the last year or so

 

[Calanen]

ya here's a good article by Fisk ..I love the opening line:

Oil, War And A Growing Sense Of Panic In The US

Don't tell me that America would have invaded Iraq if its chief export was beetroot...

I'm tired of the 'oil' rationale as the reason for US intervention.

1. Where was the oil in WW1 when America fought in Europe?

2. Where was the oil in WW2 when America again fought in Europe? And why did America leave Europe after WW2 if its such a colonial oppressor that steals the resources of countries it saves from dictatorships. How much did the US plunder out of Europe? Or maybe it gave Europe billions to rebuild as aid and loans and rebuilt the place to allow the very people they saved to bitch about how they are evil colonial oppressors.

3. Where was the oil in the Korean War?

4. Where was the oil in the Vietnam War?

5. Where was the oil in Kosovo?

6. In Gulf War I when there was oil - America wanted the oil so much that it gave it back to Saddam and did not keep marching all the way to Baghdad. And he was finished his army had collapsed. So they could have taken all the oil and taken over Kuwait too. But of course they did not.

So to say they 'Just want the oil!' is simplistic leftist propoganda that is not bourne out by the facts. So if America only invades when there is oil, and not beetroot - where was all the oil in these other examples Stern?

 

[Calanen]

so you'll also go after these countries?

United States
Israel
United Kingdom
Russia
China
France
India
Pakistan


while you're at it, you may want to look at these as well, since they have the capability:

Libya
Argentina
Brazil
South Africa
South Korea
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Algeria
Former Soviet States
Ukraine
Kazakhstan
Belarus
Australia
Canada
Germany
Japan
Netherlands

Capability? We have no nuclear weapons program nor even a weapons grade reactor. We have a sh_teload of uranium. But having the 'capability' by saying, we could conceivably spend money and build a weapons program is silly. We either have one or we do not. And we do not.

 

[bliink]

Capability? We have no nuclear weapons program nor even a weapons grade reactor. We have a sh_teload of uranium. But having the 'capability' by saying, we could conceivably spend money and build a weapons program is silly. We either have one or we do not. And we do not.

Nuclear capability simply means that we can build the various facilities we would need to produce weapons.
E.g. we have the money and skill present to do it.

It doesnt mean we already have centrifuges etc.

 

[GiaOmerta]

"The first causality in war is truth."

 

[Llama]

Nuclear capability simply means that we can build the various facilities we would need to produce weapons.
E.g. we have the money and skill present to do it.

It doesnt mean we already have centrifuges etc.

Does any1 know what happened with that uranium that went "missing" from a scottish nuclear power plant.....it enough to make 7 nukes

 

[No Limit]

How about all the other incidents I provided? What about NK's self admitance of possessing nukes? My point was 1 mistake shouldnt be used to smother out all the other examples.

You are missing the point. The Bush administration did the exact same thing with Iraq. There were many bad things Saddam did; however, none were bad enough to get wide support for a war. So what this great administration did was spread a bunch of lies to try and gain support. When it was proven those were lies they blamed it on bad intel. When CIA officials tried to say before that the intel was bad they were outed by our government (look up Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson).

 

[seinfeldrules]

When it was proven those were lies they blamed it on bad intel.

NK admits to having nukes.

 

[No Limit]

NK admits to having nukes.

Are you trying to ignore what is being said?

 

[seinfeldrules]

Are you trying to ignore what is being said?

I'm dismissing your claims that the US is making up intel regarding N.Korean WMD.

 

[No Limit]

I'm dismissing your claims that the US is making up intel regarding N.Korean WMD.

Ok, so you are trying to ignore anything said. I didn't say I dispute that NK has nukes. I am saying that again this administration is making up things to gain support for a war. IN this case it is that NK is selling arms to Libya.

 

[seinfeldrules]

IN this case it is that NK is selling arms to Libya.

Do you deny the other examples I posted in which NK was selling weapons?

 

[No Limit]

Do you deny the other examples I posted in which NK was selling weapons?

We need a nodding head smilie. Do you not see how you are trying to shift the topic? This is about our administration DELIBERATELY lying to try and build a case for war. This has nothing to do with what NK has done. They did this with Iraq and now we are seeing they didn't learn their lesson.