US officals confirms that white phosporus as a weapon

[gh0st]

I've seen video of US soldiers murdering wounded fighters in Fallujah, 600 civilians bodies have been accounted for from the seige ...and yet you people think it's ok to do whatever you please? no wonder the world hates you

oh no poor wounded terrorists better give them mercy. if i saw some wounded idiot who had just been shooting at me there would be no mercy, id blow his jacobs off with extreme prejudice because thats exactly what he'd do to me, or worse. once you shoot at me you lose all rights to mercy.

civilians: collateral damage.

nice link turd, the title really says it all "americas moral morass". hahahahhaha blow me.

 

[CptStern]

Oh, and you werent? Posting pictures about 9/11 where thousands died. Why don't you look at your own ego for a change.

because my point was valid and wasnt at all flippant, I was being completely honest when I say your little side trip to iraq will create hundreds if not thousands of osamas bent on YOUR destruction

 

[Icarusintel]

if someone's tryiong to kill I doubt you'd chuck a phosphorus gernade at him, not when I real gernade will do a far better job ...seems to me it's used to smoke/choke/poison people out, so they can be killed as they come out

if it's all i've got left, i'll use it, or if i'm given a legitimate order to use it

 

[Sainku]

I was under the impression it was used quite often. Usually in the form a grenade or incediary rounds. But was also under the impression it was no more a chemical weapon than a flamethrower. The guy on the receiving end probably doesn't care very much though. Bullets or burns. You dont get to pick your poison... but you can be sure it can't be dispersed in the air.

 

[CptStern]

oh no poor wounded terrorists better give them mercy. if i saw some wounded idiot who had just been shooting at me there would be no mercy, id blow his jacobs off with extreme prejudice because thats exactly what he'd do to me, or worse. once you shoot at me you lose all rights to mercy.

civilians: collateral damage.

nice link turd, the title really says it all "americas moral morass". hahahahhaha blow me.

wow, how did you manage to watch a 49 minute video in 7 minutes?

oh wait:

nice link turd, the title really says it all "americas moral morass". hahahahhaha blow me.

that's about as far you got isnt it?

 

[Last One In]

All war is ****ed and if you think otherwise you're either ignorant or insane. I'm igonorant about war, so I can't really preach; but I know for damn sure that killing another human being isn't something that one should be enthuistiac about. I got this view mainly from watching movies and reading All Quiet On the western front, and a few things in between.

 

[Icarusintel]

All war is ****ed and if you think otherwise you're either ignorant or insane. I'm igonorant about war, so I can't really preach; but I know for damn sure that killing another human being isn't something that one should be enthuistiac about. I got this view mainly from watching movies and reading All Quiet On the western front, and a few things in between.

for some reason war is the only way people think some things can be solved, and it's not going away any time soon, so, oh well, right?

 

[Last One In]

War is a pretty round about way of doing things; you kill the killers because they killed your people so you kill their people. The funny thing is that the iraq war was started by a christian man who claimed that the christian God (the trinity or whatever) told him to do it. The only thing is that my God (Father,son,holy spirit) Jesus Christ, never once preached that violence was any sort of a solution. Instead Jesus taught that one should love their enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Bush's war has nothing to do with Christs' teaching; it has everything to do with the destruction of America and control over oil.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

if they made killing terrorists easier i'd use them too.

The easiest way to kill terrorists is to indiscriminately nuke the mideast. Obviously you have limits, but such simplistic statements aren't making you look terribly sympathetic from the perspective of anyone who doesn't own an Osama Yo Mama t-shirt.

Anywho, everyone is getting all caught up in the definition of chemical while one side acts all righteous and the other says 'at least it's a bit better than napalm' as though that were somehow a positive point.

The matter is that this phosphorous is gruesome painful shit, and doesn't belong in modern warfare, just as flamethrowers, napalm and so many others don't.
'Noble' war died with WWI, but that doesn't mean we should just toss away decencies at random, even if it does mean a higher 'kill count' from your armchair perspective.
It's not a game.

So instead of continuing to talk out of your teenage ass about how much you'd love to watch another man die, maybe think about how pathetic you sound.

 

[Last One In]

You know what, the word terrorist really pisses me off. I prefer the term misguided jack offs who think they're all righteous but are in fact a bunch of power hungry assholes.

 

[Top Secret]

Seriously, the t's are just being pussies. Why can't it be like the good ol' days where we just designate a field and run at eachother with big wooden objects and sharpened metal items like civilized people?

 

[15357]

Pardon?

I mean that we should make it better to kill faster without that much pain and use them on protesters.



Seriously, WP sounds horrible. They should have used nerve gas or something.

 

[Icarusintel]

War is a pretty round about way of doing things; you kill the killers because they killed your people so you kill their people. The funny thing is that the iraq war was started by a christian man who claimed that the christian God (the trinity or whatever) told him to do it. The only thing is that my God (Father,son,holy spirit) Jesus Christ, never once preached that violence was any sort of a solution. Instead Jesus taught that one should love their enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Bush's war has nothing to do with Christs' teaching; it has everything to do with the destruction of America and control over oil.

hmmm... maybe you should just look through history for a minute and you'll find tons of examples where people used their deity as a reason to attack other people... need I mention the Crusades?

 

[[eXp]Grey]

ergo: religion is the source of all evil.

 

[Flyingdebris]

Why is everyone surprised about white phosphorus? Sure its bad, but its been in use since WW2, i'm pretty sure most world militaries either use, or at least keep WP in stock.

The reason its most likely not listed as a chem weapon is because the lingering chem. burn cloud is more of a side affect of the weapon's use rather than an active effect like say, Sarin, Mustard, or Chlorine, gas. Its primary use it to burn the hell out of things.

Is it a nasty weapon, yes, should it banned, only if everyone else agrees to ban it.

 

[Bait]

The easiest way to kill terrorists is to indiscriminately nuke the mideast.

Yea, cause all terrorists are isolated in the middle east.


The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Seems to me that the United States falls under a group that uses terror to fullfil its ideological and political agendas too, no?

 

[gh0st]

The easiest way to kill terrorists is to indiscriminately nuke the mideast. Obviously you have limits, but such simplistic statements aren't making you look terribly sympathetic from the perspective of anyone who doesn't own an Osama Yo Mama t-shirt.

you say this as though i give a shit what the world thinks: i dont.

The matter is that this phosphorous is gruesome painful shit, and doesn't belong in modern warfare, just as flamethrowers, napalm and so many others don't.

people die in many painful ways. you think getting blown apart with an rpg feels good? well maybe we should ban rpgs because they are such gruesome painful things. because in war we have to be friendly to the enemies or we might look like barbarians oh no.

So instead of continuing to talk out of your teenage ass about how much you'd love to watch another man die, maybe think about how pathetic you sound.

yeah i will give that some serious thought. teenage ass :upstare: thats so laughable. as though the only insult your daft mind could come up with is to attack my age as if that somehow means something. you have no more experience in modern warfare than i do.

please point out where i said i'd love to watch another man die? thanks turd, i knew you couldnt. i dont want to see anybody die. except maybe you.

 

[Reaktor4]

The only thing is that my God (Father,son,holy spirit) Jesus Christ, never once preached that violence was any sort of a solution. Instead Jesus taught that one should love their enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

 

[Icarusintel]

i just remembered, Sodom and Gomorrah, also, what about the flood?

 

[Cooper]

I'm still trying to figure out why we are talking about white phosphorus. It has been used since WWII and is no different then thousands of little shrapnel hitting your body from a normal grenade, bullets, bayonets, getting run over by a tank. You think any are less painful?

This is war, the enemy follows no rules. Many of you fail to mention the fact that these "freedom fighters" use babies and women as shields when they fought. Now they place explosives where soldiers are likely to be. It doesn't matter who is around when they detonate their device. As long as they kill a few soldiers in the process.

For some of you this war is very black and white. I have yet to see a single post where the world is reprimanding the terrorists for their actions. It appears that the United States is the only evil doer. Even though time and time again Iraq's "freedom fighters" (cause they are all from Iraq. /sarcasm) have shown that they do not care who is caught in the crossfire.

Obviously the united states wouldn't haven't bothered spending millions on guided bombs if they didn't care about civilians during this war. So saying that the U.S. doesn't care who dies is rather ludicrous. If we were really that cold hearted we would have just carpet bombed Baghdad. Which we didn't do. Which also would have been cheaper. Notice how we are paying with our own money and men to repair bridges, bring electricity and train a security force. But lets not talk about any of the good we have done, no, that would mean the United States isn't the spawn of Lucifer. And we can't have that. Lets just mention the atrocities we have done and bring up oil if we can fit it into our post.

I'm still trying to figure out why our gas prices haven't gone down with all this oil we are stealing. If it were all about the oil I would have thought the terrorists would have targeted U.S. captured refineries and drills. Seems like the best way to hurt us if we were just their for the oil. Unless the terrorists don't think we are there for that? I know! Lets just ask them, after all they are a civilized group who obey UN rules of war and would have no problem with dimplomacy. They aren't savages who blow up innocent civilians like the U.S.

 

[southernman17]

well said cooper

 

[DeusExMachina]

Cooper, this is a British owned site filled with Canadians. Do you really expect us to get any sympathy?

 

[SAJ]

From an Iraqi civilian:

The first day I read about it on the internet, on some site, my heart sank. White phosphorous in Falloojeh. I knew nothing about white phosphorous, of course, and a part of me didn’t want to know the details. I tried downloading the film four times and was almost relieved when I got disconnected all four times.

E. had heard about the film too and one of his friends S. finally brought it by on CD. He and E. shut themselves up in the room with the computer to watch the brief documentary. E. came out half an hour later looking pale- his lips tightened in a straight line, which is the way he looks when he’s pensive... thinking about something he'd rather not discuss.

“Hey- I want to see it too…” I half-heartedly called out after him, as he walked S. to the door.

“It’s on the desktop- but you really don’t want to see it.” E. said.

I avoided the computer for five days because every time I switched it on, the file would catch my eye and call out to me… now plaintively- begging to be watched, now angrily- condemning my indifference.

Except that it was never indifference… it was a sort of dread that sat deep in my stomach, making me feel like I had swallowed a dozen small stones. I didn’t want to see it because I knew it contained the images of the dead civilians I had in my head.

Few Iraqis ever doubted the American use of chemical weapons in Falloojeh. We’ve been hearing the terrifying stories of people burnt to the bone for well over a year now. I just didn’t want it confirmed.

I didn’t want it confirmed because confirming the atrocities that occurred in Falloojeh means verifying how really lost we are as Iraqis under American occupation and how incredibly useless the world is in general- the UN, Kofi Annan, humanitarian organizations, clerics, the Pope, journalists… you name it- we’ve lost faith in it.

I finally worked up enough courage to watch it and it has lived up to my worst fears. Watching it was almost an invasive experience, because I felt like someone had crawled into my mind and brought my nightmares to life. Image after image of men, women and children so burnt and scarred that the only way you could tell the males apart from the females, and the children apart from the adults, was by the clothes they are wearing… the clothes which were eerily intact- like each corpse had been burnt to the bone, and then dressed up lovingly in their everyday attire- the polka dot nightgown with a lace collar… the baby girl in her cotton pajamas- little earrings dangling from little ears.

Some of them look like they died almost peacefully, in their sleep… others look like they suffered a great deal- skin burnt completely black and falling away from scorched bones.

I imagine what it must have been like for some of them. They were probably huddled in their houses- some of them- tens of thousands of them- couldn’t leave the city. They didn’t have transport or they simply didn’t have a place to go. They sat in their homes, hoping that what people said about Americans was actually true- that in spite of their huge machines and endless weapons, they were human too.

And then the rain of bombs would begin… the wooooosh of the missiles as they fell and the sound of the explosion as it hit its target… and no matter how prepared you think you are for that explosion- it always makes you flinch. I imagine their children covering their ears and some of them crying, trying to cover up the mechanical sounds of war with their more human wails. I imagine that as the tanks got closer, and the planes got lower- the fear increased- and parents searched each other’s faces for a solution, for a way out of the horror. Some of them probably decided to wait it out in their homes, and others must have been desperate to get out- fearing the rain of concrete and steel and thinking their chances were better in the open air, than confined in the homes that could at any moment turn into their tombs.

That’s what we were told before the Americans came- it’s safer to be outside of the house during an air strike than it is to be inside of the house. Inside of the house, a missile nearby would turn the windows into millions of little daggers and walls might come crashing down. In the garden, or even the street, you’d only have to worry about shrapnel and debris if the bomb was very close- but what were the chances of that?

That was before 2003… and certainly before Falloojeh.

That was before men, women and children left their homes only to be engulfed in a rain of fire.

Last year I blogged about Falloojeh and said:

“There is talk of the use of cluster bombs and other forbidden weaponry.”

I was immediately attacked with a barrage of emails from Americans telling me I was a liar and that there was no proof and that there was no way Americans would ever do something so appalling! I wonder how those same people justify this now. Are they shocked? Or do they tell themselves that Iraqis aren’t people? Or are they simply in denial?

The Pentagon spokesman recently said:

"It's part of our conventional-weapons inventory and we use it like we use any other conventional weapon,"

This war has redefined ‘conventional’. It has taken atrocity to another level. Everything we learned before has become obsolete. ‘Conventional’ has become synonymous with horrifying. Conventional weapons are those that eat away the skin in a white blaze; conventional interrogation methods are like those practiced in Abu Ghraib and other occupation prisons…

Quite simply… conventional terror.

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2005_11_01_riverbendblog_archive.html#113218124805731713 (added bold and underline)

 

[Milkman]

i just remembered, Sodom and Gomorrah, also, what about the flood?

I think that flood was metaphorical, but yeah.


So, whats the big ****ing deal about WP? Phosphorus is a chemical, and when used as a tool of war it is a weapon, but it is by law NOT an outlawed chemical weapon. People have been using WP on american soldiers in the past, and we have used it against combatants as well in the past, so wheres the outcry? Ah yes, from the italian communist party, and that "documentary" that was broadcasted on state run TV.

 

[dream431ca]

US officals confirms my pop can as a weapon....the point is..anything can be considered a weapon. a needle, a stick, a spade, pen, pencil, garbage bag, plunger, glue, paper cutter, shoe laces, lipstick, whiteout, erasers, CD's, DVD's, tape, cable, wire, wood, steel, iron, plastic, paper, dirt, air, sodium Hydroxide, Hydrocloric Acid, eggs, electricity, light, darkness, M4, AK47, Grenade, crowbar, pop cans, pop bottles, pestisides, rubbing alcohol, alcohol in general, drugs, coin, money, water, scissors and other things that I didn't mention.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Gun powder is also a chemical and it causes burns when introduced to fire. Add that to the list of attrocities the U.S. has commited.

 

[Flyingdebris]

oh noes! ban gunpowder!

lets not rest till war looks like a mild game of frisbee but with more padding and helmets!

 

[Korgoth]

you compassionate conservatives sure do lack one thing... compassion.

"We have this weapon that melts your skin and organs and causes extreme pain and death, we can't actually use it with any sort of precision though, so we will just spread it all over. Sure that little boy playing outside didn't deserve to be mutilated, but thats the price you pay for freedom right?"

- or, we could just NOT use that weapon.

com·pas·sion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (km-pshn)
n.

Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it. See Synonyms at pity.

 

[Flyingdebris]

we are all well aware of what compassion is.

however where do you draw the line between "Legitimate War Making Tool" and "OMG BAN IT"

so it delivers chem burns to those in the thick of a WP cloud. And a grenade will turn you into a pincushion, a bullet can hit you in the gut where it can take hours or days before you die, a shotgun blast can shear off your face without killing you, a flamethrower will fry you to the bone, landmines can blow off a leg or 2, an m230 chaingun from an apache can fire 625 30mm rounds a minute turning you into an unrecognizable mess, we got automatic grenade launchers- 350 nades a minute, MOABs, and more

a nasty little cloud is not so much when compared to the other stuff

 

[Glirk Dient]

you compassionate conservatives sure do lack one thing... compassion.

"We have this weapon that melts your skin and organs and causes extreme pain and death, we can't actually use it with any sort of precision though, so we will just spread it all over. Sure that little boy playing outside didn't deserve to be mutilated, but thats the price you pay for freedom right?"

- or, we could just NOT use that weapon.

com·pas·sion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (km-pshn)
n.

Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it. See Synonyms at pity.

A WP grenade tossed into a building is going to stay in that room. A bullet can go through walls and hit someone else. Shrapnel can fly through walls as well. WP sounds nasty but it isn't worse than anything else we use.

 

[CptStern]

I listened to an interview this morning with 2 US soldiers who were at the seige of fallujah (you can watch the segment on Sunday on CBC or read part of the transcript here) ...they said they witnessed civilians who had been killed by phosphorus ..he also mentioned that soldiers call the gernades "shake and bake" ..cuz they know anyone caught by it will be horribly burned ...for lighting purposes my ass

 

[Glirk Dient]

I listened to an interview this morning with 2 US soldiers who were at the seige of fallujah (you can watch the segment on Sunday on CBC or read part of the transcript here) ...they said they witnessed civilians who had been killed by phosphorus ..he also mentioned that soldiers call the gernades "shake and bake" ..cuz they know anyone caught by it will be horribly burned ...for lighting purposes my ass

Yeah this war is riddled with un needed civilian deaths. Mostly due to the terrorists using the civilians as shields, shooting from their houses so a soldier tosses a grenade in not knowing civilians are in there and all kind of awful crap. We aren't there to kill civilians and any soldier that accidentally kills one feels awful about it. Its not like were there killing civilians for the hell of it.

 

[gh0st]

stern for the record its "grenade" not "gernade".

 

[Mechagodzilla]

please point out where i said i'd love to watch another man die? thanks turd, i knew you couldnt. i dont want to see anybody die. except maybe you.

if they made killing terrorists easier i'd use them too.

turd?

My point was that it's easy to talk about slaughtering all them terrer-ists when you're sitting in a padded chair on the internet.

I ask that we at least be slightly more civilized by making things as quick and painless as possible. Wheras you claim to be content with spending a short while burning skin off first, because it's more convenient to you.
I therefore argue that your comfortable lifestyle and relative immaturity make it easy for you to trivialize painful death.

And then to prove that you are mature and reasonable, you say you actually don't have moral boundaries when the people in question are Foreign.
You even took the time to call me a turd.

I think it's clear my point has been reinforced. Agreed?

 

[CptStern]

Yeah this war is riddled with un needed civilian deaths. Mostly due to the terrorists using the civilians as shields, shooting from their houses so a soldier tosses a grenade in not knowing civilians are in there and all kind of awful crap. We aren't there to kill civilians and any soldier that accidentally kills one feels awful about it. Its not like were there killing civilians for the hell of it.

in some cases yes, yes you are


there's countless more where that came from, there's even video

 

[Glirk Dient]

in some cases yes, yes you are


there's countless more where that came from, there's even video

There may be some messed up soldiers who are doing that yes. Some people do go to extremes when they hate the war. Heck I remember a story about a soldier that didn't agree with the war so he rolled grenades into his fellow soldiers tents. People are simply crazy. What I am getting at is Bush isn't telling people to kill civilians. There aren't orders from higher up that say "Kill a few civilians if you feel like it".

Anyways...this thread isn't about civilians getting killed. Its about WP used as a weapon...which isn't all that bad compared to a lot of the other stuff we use to kill.

 

[Bait]

however where do you draw the line between "Legitimate War Making Tool" and "OMG BAN IT"

How can an illegitimate war contain the use of legitimate weapons that burn civilians?
Why do people just shrug off the fact that average Iraqis wanting nothing more than to get on with their day are getting caught in the middle of two groups of morons duking it out for no discernable reason? These people are being burned alive and I don't think Joe American is getting anything out of it.

 

[CptStern]

There may be some messed up soldiers who are doing that yes. Some people do go to extremes when they hate the war. Heck I remember a story about a soldier that didn't agree with the war so he rolled grenades into his fellow soldiers tents. People are simply crazy. What I am getting at is Bush isn't telling people to kill civilians. There aren't orders from higher up that say "Kill a few civilians if you feel like it".

no but there are "torture prisoners" orders coming from up top ..and I also dont think the brass is all that concerned about iraqi civilian deaths:

“Change the channel”
- Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt's advice to Iraqis who see TV images of innocent civilians killed by coalition troops.

“We don’t do body counts”
General Tommy Franks, US Central Command

"It's really not a number I'm terribly interested in." Colin Powell when asked by the press how many Iraqis had been killed by the American ground and air assault during desert storm (3/23/91, New York Times)

Anyways...this thread isn't about civilians getting killed. Its about WP used as a weapon...which isn't all that bad compared to a lot of the other stuff we use to kill.

read the thread from the beginning ..it's classified as a chemical weapon ..the very fact that the US admits to using them proves they're hypocrites ..but because it's only techincally a violation if they were to use it on civilians (which they have according to US soldiers) then it's a war crime

 

[SAJ]

Anyways...this thread isn't about civilians getting killed. Its about WP used as a weapon...which isn't all that bad compared to a lot of the other stuff we use to kill.

No , you are right , its not about civilians being killed.Its about the use of chemical weapons in a heavily urbanised area (a city in fact) that had a large number of civilians trapped in it at the time. A number of those civilians are thought to have died from exposure to chemical weapons.

Youre right , its not about civilians getting killed........not in the slightest.

 

[gh0st]

My point was that it's easy to talk about slaughtering all them terrer-ists when you're sitting in a padded chair on the internet.

what difference does that make? as though youre more qualified to speak. i said if it makes our soldiers jobs easier why in the hell shouldnt we use it?

I ask that we at least be slightly more civilized by making things as quick and painless as possible. Wheras you claim to be content with spending a short while burning skin off first, because it's more convenient to you.
I therefore argue that your comfortable lifestyle and relative immaturity make it easy for you to trivialize painful death.

i'm glad people like you arent in charge of the military or we wouldnt win ANY battles. was it quick and painless when the terrorists lopped off all those peoples heads? we arent fighting civilized people, i see no point in rising above their barbarity. WP is a tool. no worse than bullets, a huge knife, or a 1000lb laser guided bomb going up some shitbirds nose.

And then to prove that you are mature and reasonable, you say you actually don't have moral boundaries when the people in question are Foreign.
You even took the time to call me a turd.

I think it's clear my point has been reinforced. Agreed?

why would i try and prove anything to you? youre the kind of person who wants to coddle and relate to these denizens who would kill you in a heartbeat. the horrifying thing is that you, like the rest of the world, wouldnt raise a finger if these mongerals were raping your family in front of you. keep trying to rationalize with them and it will get you nowhere.