US passes bill that allows Military to detain americans without a trial indefinately

[CptStern]

Barack Obama has abandoned a commitment to veto a new security law that allows the military to indefinitely detain without trial American terrorism suspects arrested on US soil who could then be shipped to Guantánamo Bay.

The law, contained in the defence authorisation bill that funds the US military, effectively extends the battlefield in the "war on terror" to the US and applies the established principle that combatants in any war are subject to military detention.

The legislation's supporters in Congress say it simply codifies existing practice, such as the indefinite detention of alleged terrorists at Guantánamo Bay. But the law's critics describe it as a draconian piece of legislation that extends the reach of detention without trial to include US citizens arrested in their own country.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/15/americans-face-guantanamo-detention-obama

conservative senator, Rand Paul, a strong libertarian, has said "detaining citizens without a court trial is not American" and that if the law passes "the terrorists have won".

ya pretty much

 

[Mr Stabby]

RON PAUL 2012

 

[CptStern]

rand Paul is the crazy guy's son. he's not running in 2012

 

[[Dragoon]]

Hey, if you're not a terrorist you've got nothing to worry about

/herp derp

 

[Mogi67]

Terrorists win

 

[Sulkdodds]

Graham added that it was right that Americans should be subject to the detention law as well as foreigners. "It is not unfair to make an American citizen account for the fact that they decided to help Al Qaeda to kill us all and hold them as long as it takes to find intelligence about what may be coming next," he said. "And when they say, 'I want my lawyer,' you tell them, 'Shut up. You don't get a lawyer.'"

Other senators supported the new powers on the grounds that al-Qaida was fighting a war inside the US and that its followers should be treated as combatants, not civilians with constitutional protections.

WOW

I mean, the thing is, what all of these supporters manage to ignore is that "this guy supports Al Quaeda" is, as an attempted statement of fact, completely meaningless and unproven without a trial. Just because a government says it it doesn't make it true. That only occurs when it has been tested and proven in an open court in the light of day. Anyway, how ****ing dare he?

 

[Higlac]

There's a billboard off the highway here that labels Obama as a "Wannabe Marxist dictator." I can see where they're coming from.

 

[Wanted Bob]

WOW

I mean, the thing is, what all of these supporters manage to ignore is that "this guy supports Al Quaeda" is, as an attempted statement of fact, completely meaningless and unproven without a trial. Just because a government says it it doesn't make it true. That only occurs when it has been tested and proven in an open court in the light of day. Anyway, how ****ing dare he?

Oh how I wish he would get detained for being a suspected terrorist.

 

[Tagaziel]

Liberty and justice for all, eh America? Makes me glad I live in Europe.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Remind me again, how many attacks have Al-Qaeda successfully perpetrated on US soil since 9/11?

Jesus, you guys are so ****ed, and we're all going down with you.

 

[Mr Stabby]

rand Paul is the crazy guy's son. he's not running in 2012

Ron Paul is libertarian and opposes this.

RON PAUL 2012!

 

[The Monkey]

****ing sickening. No wonder voting turnout is so low in America when the only option is between two almost equally evil parties.

 

[V-Man339]

****ing sickening. No wonder voting turnout is so low in America when the only option is between two almost equally evil parties.

Yeah, pretty much nails it. I just turned 18, but don't see much point in voting for anyone but Ron Paul because, frankly, everyone else seems to be bought and paid for to some extent.
Why bother voting if it just means you're as guilty as the guy who gets elected either way?

 

[unozero]

Obama first said he was not going to sign this...****ing liar.
next year will be the first time I'll ever vote.

 

[Higlac]

ITT: People who didn't realize that he was a flip-flopping corporate poster boy in 2008.

 

[Krynn72]

I just turned 18, but don't see much point in voting for anyone but Ron Paul because, frankly, everyone else seems to be bought and paid for to some extent.

Honestly, I don't agree with most of what Ron Paul wants to do, but I was thinking about it the other day, and he really does seem like he's the only one in the race (including Obama) who honestly wants to improve the state of the country, rather than profit from it or just fulfill an egotistical goal of being called "Mr. President". I mean, Obama doesn't seem like he's doing either of those, but he seems like he's given up on everything. The Republicans kicked his ass, and now he's their bitch. So as far as the elections go, I may not agree with what Ron Paul is saying, but at least he seems sincere and honest about it, rather than being an avoidist or worse, opportunistic like everyone else.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

So you would vote Paul > Obama?

 

[anomalosmaterial]

Yeah, pretty much nails it. I just turned 18, but don't see much point in voting for anyone but Ron Paul because, frankly, everyone else seems to be bought and paid for to some extent.
Why bother voting if it just means you're as guilty as the guy who gets elected either way?

Yeah, he will right the course.... to ****ing serfdom. Hes a damned constitutionalist, which is just a nice way of saying all the various regulatory and trade laws that have been passed (with VERY good reason, most of them) dont mean shit to him. The only reason he got the nod from the party is his free market, free trade babble which sounds GLORIOUS to the corporate interests that infest the hill. Not to say Obama is worth very much but this blind "Im sick of the establishment so ill vote for the member of the shittier party that seems like an outcast" is how we got the Teatards

 

[Krynn72]

So you would vote Paul > Obama?

At this point... not quite, but I have seriously considered it.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Yeah, he will right the course.... to ****ing serfdom.

Which is not where America is already headed? If anything his strict monetary policy may restrict the hot captial on wallstreet, decreasing their power. This is one area where Ron Paul has shitty policies, but Obama's are arguably worse.

Hes a damned constitutionalist, which is just a nice way of saying all the various regulatory and trade laws that have been passed (with VERY good reason, most of them) dont mean shit to him.

Most of those are not unconstitutional due to the commerce clause. He also opposes shitty trade laws like NAFTA, so its not all bad.

The only reason he got the nod from the party is his free market, free trade babble which sounds GLORIOUS to the corporate interests that infest the hill. Not to say Obama is worth very much but this blind "Im sick of the establishment so ill vote for the member of the shittier party that seems like an outcast" is how we got the Teatards

He hasn't got the nod from the republican party, they really don't like him. Corporations don't like free trade, they are by definition not free market entiites, a corporation is a state charter. Ron Paul doesn't believe in corporate personhood.


America is ****ed, the only question is what type of ****ed do you want?

 

[anomalosmaterial]

Which is not where America is already headed? If anything his strict monetary policy may restrict the hot captial on wallstreet, decreasing their power. This is one area where Ron Paul has shitty policies, but Obama's are arguably worse.

Not going to defend Obama, especially after his ridiculous lying down to the ndaa bill, even if they override his veto, even if they threaten shut down. You cant try to appease this scum. They dont care about the country or its people at all. That being said, Paul would not be a dictator, he would have to work with his party to get anything accomplished, and it is clear how they view free market.

Most of those are not unconstitutional due to the commerce clause. He also opposes shitty trade laws like NAFTA, so its not all bad.

NAFTA is one among many but even if he does not want to enforce any such agreement, he would still go hands off on things like minimum wage, which means abolish it. Dont kid yourself, Repubs love him and hate regulation

He hasn't got the nod from the republican party, they really don't like him. Corporations don't like free trade, they are by definition not free market entiites, a corporation is a state charter. Ron Paul doesn't believe in corporate personhood.


America is ****ed, the only question is what type of ****ed do you want?

Corporate personhood is a big bonus for him but that is something a less hatchet job president would hopefully be able to do without reducing all our good protectionist laws back to 1921

America isnt ****ed, we are the center of the damned world and have a generally forward thinking viewpoint (in spite of all those retarded "polls" on climate change etc. What we need now is a congress worthy of representing us, the fact that we are starting to protest again is enough to give me hope but the two party system is proving to be a joke. What any american looking for change should do is look outside both for a good answer

 

[Tagaziel]

we are the center of the damned world

You deserve to go under for this kind of mindset.

 

[unozero]

You deserve to go under for this kind of mindset.

you mad?
He's absolutely right.

 

[anomalosmaterial]

You deserve to go under for this kind of mindset.

Oh noes here comes the karma!!!!! Any second now

All Im saying is NATO WTO, other organizations dont do shit without us. Why do you think so many economies are regressing so quickly? Everything was tied into our housing and exotic products scams. In fact being the center of the world nowadays is not a point of pride

Im just going to go on the record and say I want nothing more than all of our imperial bullshit to stop, it sure as shit doesnt benefit the citizenry and its been disastrous to especially South American countries for the last 60 years

While were on the subject, all modern music comes from here, hollywood is viewed and admired the world over (outside of India and China) and we have the most industrious populace in the world

 

[Sulkdodds]

All Im saying is NATO WTO, other organizations dont do shit without us

Because you deliberately set them up so they were structurally incapable of going against you.

But it's true that the USA has enjoyed a position of hegemony for much of the 20th century and beyond. While some would argue it is now declining, its culture and economy will surely continue to exert a huge influence on the world stage for some time yet. 'Saving' America at this point, whether you define that in purely economical/realpolitikal terms or whether you add to those an ethical and ideological obligation, would be a significant event. And Americans should have a sense of national pride and destiny if that helps them demand of themselves and of their governments what the principles of liberty demand of them rather than complacently settling their arse-cheeks over the wilted laurels of past victories. Just so, being able to assert an ideological kinship with William Blake, and sing his Jerusalem as a warped national anthem for Great Britain, is part of my own approach to the problems (and utterly corrupt foundation) of my country. First world nations are still - for however much longer it lasts - major drivers of global change. Their citizens are therefore in a position of real power, and must live up to the responsibilities of their birthright.

Of course I actually do believe we're all irretrievably ****ed. But you've got to have a go.

 

[Stylo]

The US may as well just tear up its constitution altogether.

 

[anomalosmaterial]

Because you deliberately set them up so they were structurally incapable of going against you.

Hate the game, not the player.

But it's true that the USA has enjoyed a position of hegemony for much of the 20th century and beyond. While some would argue it is now declining, its culture and economy will surely continue to exert a huge influence on the world stage for some time yet. 'Saving' America at this point, whether you define that in purely economical/realpolitikal terms or whether you add to those an ethical and ideological obligation, would be a significant event.

"Saving" America is something that should have been done every day over the last 30 years. Instead privatization and special, moneyed interest has totally paralyzed these congress chumps. but this right here is the crux. If the criminal Repubs can paint the current financial crisis as something brought on by our paltry welfare system and can only be halted by cutting safety nets, then the worst is to come.

And Americans should have a sense of national pride and destiny if that helps them demand of themselves and of their governments what the principles of liberty demand of them

Very well, if YOU think we should:hmph:

 

[Stylo]

all modern music comes from here

Just going to quote this to prove to myself that I'm not just seeing things, someone actually just said this. Just... What?

 

[Remus]

all modern music comes from here

The stupid, it hurts...

 

[Mogi67]

While were on the subject, all modern music comes from here

opinion = terrible

 

[ríomhaire]

Hate the game, not the player.

And when the player is question is the one who has a hand in making the rules of the game?

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

ALL music :V

 

[morgs]

Remind me again, how many attacks have Al-Qaeda successfully perpetrated on US soil since 9/11?

Jesus, you guys are so ****ed, and we're all going down with you.

The whole terrorism thing is a charade for them to implement all these procedures.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Elect Ron Paul in 2012 to help stop nonsense like this. The killing of the American in Yemen, while I did not shed any tears for him, set a very bad precedent.

 

[Mr Stabby]

RON PAUL 2012!

 

[Bad^Hat]

Obama signed off on it.

Welp.

 

[Raziaar]

Well that seals my non vote.

 

[Maestro]

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin

 

[Krynn72]

- Benjamin Franklin

Love that quote, and it pertains to Americans more and more every year. If I could land a job in Canada, I'd be out of this bitch in a heartbeat. Give me freedom or give me Canada, I always say.

 

[Maestro]

Love that quote, and it pertains to Americans more and more every year. If I could land a job in Canada, I'd be out of this bitch in a heartbeat. Give me freedom or give me Canada, I always say.

Jesus, man, every single thing on this page is more relevant every year.