Valve charging fees to LAN centers for CS

[d1ngd0ngX]

sorry if this has been already posted :

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=530229

here is a part of it:

"Valve have recently released details of LAN gaming centres having to pay a license fee for their titles, including Counter-Strike. Gaming centres have already bought Half Life and Counterstike for each of their PCs, but now Valve want centres to pay thousands of pounds in additional fees. The majority of Publishers and Developers support the LAN gaming scene because of our vast marketing and promotional benefits and provide us with free licenses to operate."

 

[nw909]

cool, i'll play it at my house thx.

 

[Dhoco X]

Great, i have a 600kbps adsl, a nice computer and server with latency 10. I don't care...

 

[Chris D]

I doubt that's true

 

[d1ngd0ngX]

yeah u can play at home but
main issue is basically all the lan centers that people like to play cs at and also more importantly the big lan events / tournaments (like CPL, world cyber games, ESWC) might drop CS but that is just what people are saying right now

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by Chris_D
I doubt that's true

if igames is reacting to it and making statements about what they plan to do, it must be true. why would they announce that they won't support 1.6 in tourneys if it's just a rumor?

 

[AudioRage]

Unless I see an offical press release from valve about it, I highly doubt anything posted on any website.

 

[Xtasy0]

lan centers have ALWAYS had to pay fees, if they bothered reading the EULA they agreed to upon installing half-life/cs/whatever they would see they're NOT ALLOWED TO USE THAT LICENSED COPY IN A LAN CENTER FOR PROFIT. geesh why are they all freaking out like this is a new thing?? if they were legit they would have been doing it the proper way before.

 

[Chris D]

Xtasy0 is right:

(C) Sierra Warranty & Legal Information
You are entitled to use this product for your own use, but may not copy, reproduce, translate, publicly perform, display, or reduce to any electronic medium or machine- readable form, reproductions of the software or manual to other parties in any way, nor sell, rent or lease the product to others without prior written permission of Sierra. You may use one copy of the product on a single computer. YOU MAY NOT NETWORK THE PRODUCT OR OTHERWISE INSTALL IT OR USE IT ON MORE THAN ONE COMPUTER AT THE SAME TIME.

 

[d1ngd0ngX]

yeah that is true but the difference now is that valve is actually enforcing it

 

[LoneDeranger]

Like I said before, Valve needs to charge 1c everytime someone buys an AWP. They would make $1,000,000 in just a matter of days.

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by Chris_D
Xtasy0 is right:

not even that, thats just talking about one license for multiple computers, but there is a specific portion that says you can't use the license provided for profit (even if its one valid license per computer).

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by Xtasy0
lan centers have ALWAYS had to pay fees, if they bothered reading the EULA they agreed to upon installing half-life/cs/whatever they would see they're NOT ALLOWED TO USE THAT LICENSED COPY IN A LAN CENTER FOR PROFIT. geesh why are they all freaking out like this is a new thing?? if they were legit they would have been doing it the proper way before.

i think the point iGames is trying to make is that the EULA is unfair. so many LAN centers have trouble staying afloat as is, and now it seems they might have to pay more $$$. if that's the case, you can bet there won't be many LAN centers that use cs1.6

the "proper" way is to let LAN centers do what they've been doing. have you ever been to one? tons of little kids play cs all day in my local one. valve gets TONS of exposure via LAN centers. my local LAN center doesn't even advertise...all of their customers have come from word of mouth or walking in off the street.

almost every customer that comes in for the first time says something like "i heard cs is cool...do you have that to play?" if valve starts charging, they'll have to say "no...we don't have cs"

 

[Chris D]

Then maybe they should have followed the rules in the first place then they wouldn't be going through this now.

 

[Maskirovka]

Chris_D:

nowhere in there does it say you can't charge someone for using your computer that has HL/CS installed on it.

it just says you can't reproduce, sell, rent, or lease the software. LAN centers aren't doing that...they're just renting computer time.

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by d1ngd0ngX
yeah that is true but the difference now is that valve is actually enforcing it

AS THEY ****ING SHOULD.

wtf, somehow you think its OK for lan centers to break the EULA and make money off of valves work, and then valve decides to enforce it and the people who weren't paying valve before freak out, BIG ****ING DEAL, they weren't doing it legally before, and now they won't be able to do it at all.

im sure valve isn't worried about losing these lan centers (whom never bothered to realize they needed special licenses for lan centers before, apparently).

 

[Maskirovka]

plz show me where the EULA says you can't charge someone to use your computer that has HL/CS installed on it

 

[Chris D]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
Chris_D:

nowhere in there does it say you can't charge someone for using your computer that has HL/CS installed on it.

it just says you can't reproduce, sell, rent, or lease the software. LAN centers aren't doing that...they're just renting computer time.

Yes it does. As per the Steam Subscriber Agreement:

"You are entitled to use the Steam Software for your own use, but you are not entitled to ... exploit the Steam Software or any of its parts for any commercial purpose including, but not limited to, use at a cyber café, computer gaming center or any other location-based site."

 

[Maskirovka]

yeah that's for steam...what about prior to steam?

 

[Chris D]

And earlier on in the agreement it mentions that it covers Steam and all other Valve products relating to it, unless specifically stated otherwise.

These companies should have paid for the special licences.

EDIT: I'm a liar. It doesn't. Sure I read that. So yes, that quote there relates specifically to Steam. But anyone that has now updated to CS 1.6, still, quite rightly, should pay the licencing fees.

 

[Chris D]

More quotes:

I run a gaming venue. Can I offer Steam games to my customers?

Yes, you can absolutely offer games on the Steam system to your customers. We offer special licensing for gaming venues, and provide easy-to-install Steam software for all of your computers. Please get in touch with us by emailing [email protected]. We'll get back to you right away.

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
plz show me where the EULA says you can't charge someone to use your computer that has HL/CS installed on it

i will, as soon as the steampowered forum is back up, it's quoted there and i cant be bothered finding it right now.

 

[Chris D]

Prior to Steam, it'd be exactly the same, except for the fact that the agreement would have originally been drawn up by Sierra.

 

[morpherex]

;X Just charge an entree fee and have them bring their own comps, heh. Then there's no bitching.

 

[d1ngd0ngX]

also remember that this is not just for lan centers
it may also affect those large lan tournaments which could have major implications on the pro gaming community (not the casual gamer) and probably for worse (as in cutting CS for other games)

but thats just me speculating

 

[LoneDeranger]

I didn't know LAN centers were ripping Valve off like that. Neither did they probably.

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by d1ngd0ngX
also remember that this is not just for lan centers
it may also affect those large lan tournaments which could have major implications on the pro gaming community (not the casual gamer) and probably for worse (as in cutting CS for other games)

but thats just me speculating

don't large lan tournaments have people bring their own computer? therefore this has absolutely NOTHING to do with big tournaments....

 

[Chris D]

True that.

That's a bit like saying "Oh I knew there were forum rules, but I didn't know I was breaking them by posting warez" though. It's something that's there, and you should have read before doing proceeding.

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
yeah that's for steam...what about prior to steam?

i don't support the mandatory upgrade to 1.6.
even windows doesn't force you to upgrade to the next version...i can still use win95 if i want.

steam is pretty evil in this way...by introducing steam, valve is giving an excuse to take the WON servers down. once WON is down, you must use steam and therefore 1.6 if you want to play CS.

therefore LAN centers have to have special licenses to use their games now. all because they have to use steam...which from a certain point of view was introuduced just to get a new EULA in force.

i understand money is lost by providing the WON servers after so much time...since after a certain point, sales of games using WON don't provide enough money to keep them running, but c'mon...this is going a bit far.

they're just gonna end up alienating all the LAN centers...you decide if that's a bad thing. i think it is...tournaments and things keep people interested in games, and bla bla

 

[d1ngd0ngX]

Originally posted by Xtasy0
don't large lan tournaments have people bring their own computer? therefore this has absolutely NOTHING to do with big tournaments....

nope you are not right. the big lan tournaments :

ESWC - ESports World Cup - www.esworldcup.com
CPL - Cyberathlete Professional League - www.thecpl.com
WCG - World Cyber Games (WCG 2003 just recently ended last week in Korea) - www.worldcybergames.com

those are the big three I would say (all three support CS as a tournament game) .. and in all three you use their computers, you do not bring your own. Also all three are cash prize tournaments, each with a purse of around $200,000 to $500,000 in cash prizes

 

[Chris D]

Yes, but the EULA stated before Steam came about that they aren't allowed to have the same copy installed on more than one machine.

Steam is a progression, it's just had a rocky road so far.

 

[Chris D]

Originally posted by d1ngd0ngX
Also all three are cash prize tournaments, each with a purse of around $200,000 to $500,000 in cash prizes

It won't hurt them much to pay the licencing fees then will it?

 

[Maskirovka]

yeah...i guess the CPL will require you to log into your own steam account or something to avoid paying the licensing fees or something. but it's not like the people competing in these tourneys don't already own hl/cs.

 

[No Limit]

Maskirovka, this is common practice for any game/software. When you buy a game or program you buy it for personal use, you can not make any money of it. What lan centers are doing is charging you to play this game, therefore, they are making money of the game which breaks the agreement. Valve has a right to make money of each person that plays the game they created, this is fair.

Paul

ps sorry about any bad spelling or grammer, I am feeling like shit right now and really need to get some sleep.

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by Maskirovka
1. i don't support the mandatory upgrade to 1.6.
even windows doesn't force you to upgrade to the next version...i can still use win95 if i want.

2. steam is pretty evil in this way...by introducing steam, valve is giving an excuse to take the WON servers down. once WON is down, you must use steam and therefore 1.6 if you want to play CS.

3. therefore LAN centers have to have special licenses to use their games now. all because they have to use steam...which from a certain point of view was introuduced just to get a new EULA in force.

4. i understand money is lost by providing the WON servers after so much time...since after a certain point, sales of games using WON don't provide enough money to keep them running, but c'mon...this is going a bit far.

5. they're just gonna end up alienating all the LAN centers...you decide if that's a bad thing. i think it is...tournaments and things keep people interested in games, and bla bla

1. by the same token you can still run CS 1.5, or CS1.3, i mean hell who cares if you lose compatibility with the rest of the world right? (win95 is no longer supported by M$, so it's very much the same)

2. valve doesn't need to give an excuse actually, heh you should be happy about steam and won running at the same time until steam is where they want it, at least they didnt just say **** it two eyars ago and kill won then.

3. they needed special licenses before as well, it's not a new EULA, it predates steam, only now it will be enforceable, and i see no reason for valve to not enforce it.

4. going a bit far, by providing a brand new platform that will have the functionality of WON+ a bunch of third party programs, and taking down WON when there is no more use for it?

5. they'll alienate lan centers that were illegaly using their games for profit, big deal. as for tournaments, as i said above i'm pretty sure people bring their own systems to tournaments (i can't see pros playing on some lame rig provided by the people running the tourny).

 

[Chris D]

It's not going to be that much of a problem for the tourneys. If they have that sort of money to spend on cash prizes, paying a few thousand in licences isn't going to set them back too much.

It's just the cyber cafe's that might suffer. But then again, we don't know what the licencing fees are. It might be quite cheap.

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by Chris_D
Steam is a progression, it's just had a rocky road so far.

i disagree...steam isn't just another version of existing software. valve is grouping all their games under one software license...the steam license.

all of their games already had eula's...now they're changing them by saying all valve games are now related to steam and are under the steam licensing agreement.

Originally posted by Xtasy0
i will, as soon as the steampowered forum is back up, it's quoted there and i cant be bothered finding it right now.

why do you need the steam forum? i'm talking about the original half-life EULA.

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by Chris_D
It's not going to be that much of a problem for the tourneys. If they have that sort of money to spend on cash prizes, paying a few thousand in licences isn't going to set them back too much.

It's just the cyber cafe's that might suffer. But then again, we don't know what the licencing fees are. It might be quite cheap.

$10.00/machine/month

and they charge people how much/hr to play?...

 

[LoneDeranger]

Originally posted by Maskirovka

steam is pretty evil in this way...by introducing steam, valve is giving an excuse to take the WON servers down. once WON is down, you must use steam and therefore 1.6 if you want to play CS.

Valve isn't giving an excuse. They have publicly stated that with the advent of Steam, WON will be taken down and taken out

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by d1ngd0ngX
nope you are not right. the big lan tournaments :

ESWC - ESports World Cup - www.esworldcup.com
CPL - Cyberathlete Professional League - www.thecpl.com
WCG - World Cyber Games (WCG 2003 just recently ended last week in Korea) - www.worldcybergames.com

those are the big three I would say (all three support CS as a tournament game) .. and in all three you use their computers, you do not bring your own. Also all three are cash prize tournaments, each with a purse of around $200,000 to $500,000 in cash prizes

ok, but since the fee is a monthly fee, and the tournaments run for what, a weekend? they will either pay a Fraction, or they won't have to pay anything.

or, as stated, people will login using their own steam account. *shrug*

Originally posted by Maskirovka
i disagree...steam isn't just another version of existing software. valve is grouping all their games under one software license...the steam license.

all of their games already had eula's...now they're changing them by saying all valve games are now related to steam and are under the steam licensing agreement.



why do you need the steam forum? i'm talking about the original half-life EULA.

because it's quoted in the forum and i'm not going to install HL simply so i can read the EULA.