Valve confusing us

[BlackWolfdrk]

I dont mean to offend Valve but i think their making Half Life 2 more confusing then it needs to be. Because you can either buy it or download it with updates you can get a single player only or grt it all together (not sure if this is all true) steam is a good idea on paper but im not sure how well its gonna work. Valve also really need to bring out more info on the game especially a release date they can stick to because people are begining to guess at stuff and making false rumours.What do you lot think?

 

[iamaelephant]

I agree in a sense... At first it may be a bit confusing at first, but as systems like Steam become more common place people will learn to use it more. I think releasing a SP only version is pretty redicuous though.

 

[ReZeroX]

just to clarify:
-----
1) SP only - pay-per-month for MP and included is all new mods/games.
2) SP+MP - Regular game
3) SP+MP Collectors Edition - Everything + special suprise unknown now
-----

yes, i aggree that the SP only is a totally pointless thing. im guessing it will be used primarily for tacking it on to things like they did with the radeon 9800 xt, and like gabe said those really cheep-o places that arent primarily selling games or have a dedicated electronics area. the other two make more sense as thats how it is done with many games it seems, with the collectors edition being highly sought after.

personally it didnt seem all that confusing, allthough gabe /is/ driving us all nuts with this little "mystery developement phase" going on right now.

 

[BlackWolfdrk]

No its not THAT confusing but i bet theirs gonna be loads of people buying the wrong thing and doing the wrong thing i bet their is millions of people who plan to buy half life 2 but know nothing about all this crap about single player only and stuff like that.

 

[Neutrino]

I didn't find it very confusing. If you buy a version you didn't want without doing a little research first than that is just stupid.

 

[Sandman]

I didn't find it confusing in the slightest. I think gabe explained it perfectly and that all of the people who don't understand it are just not comfortable with the english language :-P

I agree that from the perspective of the average gamer, SP only is pointless. Some people can't afford internet, though, or just don't play MP games. So, if they can get the game without MP for a reduced price, more power to them!

I think they need to clearly label the box as "Single-Player Only", though. It might confuse some people to see two boxes for HL2 up on the rack.

 

[GPRT]

personally it didnt seem all that confusing, allthough gabe /is/ driving us all nuts with this little "mystery developement phase" going on right now.

I think Gabe may have lost a lot of trust in the gaming community following recent 'events' involving HL2, so the whole openess of valve to HL2 to the public, promised at E3 has been thrown out the window. They just want to get the game out without another disaster on their hands.

 

[Sandman]

I don't think he's lost his trust in the game community... I think he's realized how stupid it was to release all that info when they probably weren't going to make the deadline and when their network was about as secure as microsoft outlook express.... literally!

 

[brokenjago]

Well, my take is that it will be confusing only if a store carries one version.

For instance:

Let's say little Johnny Doe is extremely excited about Half-Life 2. He commandeers his mother's services in purchasing a copy for the holidays. (Yes, yes, I know HL2 isn't coming out this year, it's an example) Upon arriving at (insert name here)-Mart, he sees a copy of the beloved game sitting there on a shelf. Now, let's say Johnny is too excited to check the box, or maybe he's not one of the computer-literate. He just knows he wants this damn game and he wants the damn thing now. Let’s also suppose that (insert name here)-Mart is either out-of-stock of the SP/MP version or doesn't carry it and/or has inept sales persons. Little Johnny goes home and excitedly tears off the wrapping, installing it, salivating at the mere thought of playing the thousands of delicious MODs that he will soon be downloading. But...... no. Upon trying to install his MODs, he sees that they either don't work, or his game informs him he can't install the damn things. This entire fiasco serves o produce one thing: a very, very unhappy customer. Valve doesn't want any more unhappy customers than it already has, I hope...

There is one example. Granted, I may have too much fate in people's stupidity, but, as Murphy's law goes: If something can go wrong, it will.

Anyway, that's just what I think.

 

[Styloid]

I like having options and getting exactly what I pay for. To those who don't think SP only will sell, you have to realize that gamers like you are actually a small part of the market (Who wants to be a millionaire was a top selling game). A lot of casual gamers or people with crappy internet connections would buy SP only either because they can't/don't want to play MP or because it's cheaper and if they wanted MP they could update over steam.
I do think that Brokenjago is correct in what he says though. Unless Valve does something completely foolproof, which is not easy, there will be people with the wrong version. Their only option would be to upgrade over steam.

 

[NSPIRE]

Not that confusing if ya' ask me. But then again, I always like to have options. So, maybe it's just me :dozey:.

 

[Spiffae]

gabe also said there's the option of upgrading your version via a download over steam if you decide you would like MP. sure, that's kind of a hassle, and might cost a few bucks, but it prevents you from having to buy the game all over.

 

[chili pepper]

Gabe Newell is the lamest, most dishonest game developer to ever walk the earth. I hope he gets run over by an 18-wheeler trying to get his slow chunky ass across the street. :flame:

 

[Sandman]

Dude... flaming Valve employees is not something you do in the middle of a forum full of people who love Valve Software. Silence yourself!

 

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Spiffae
gabe also said there's the option of upgrading your version via a download over steam if you decide you would like MP. sure, that's kind of a hassle, and might cost a few bucks, but it prevents you from having to buy the game all over.

I'll bet that when you upgrade to MP over Steam, they just make you pay the difference minus the box-cost of buying the full SP/MP. Steam version of HL2 should be cheaper, because they don't have to pay for boxing and shipping.

 

[jet jaguar]

Originally posted by Sandman
I'll bet that when you upgrade to MP over Steam, they just make you pay the difference minus the box-cost of buying the full SP/MP. Steam version of HL2 should be cheaper, because they don't have to pay for boxing and shipping.

It should be but I doubt it will be. Valve will probably just toss in an extra mp map for Steam purchases and call it a day. If it is cheaper(by like $10) than retail then Steam will have gone a long way towards justifying itself.

 

[BlackWolfdrk]

no no no no youve got me wrong none of us will find it confusing because were on the forums and know about this stuff but what about the people who arent on the forum who think that valve is gonna just release the game simple as that. And im English i was born in England and i live in England.

 

[Neutrino]

Originally posted by BlackWolfdrk
no no no no youve got me wrong none of us will find it confusing because were on the forums and know about this stuff but what about the people who arent on the forum who think that valve is gonna just release the game simple as that. And im English i was born in England and i live in England.

Well, I bet each box sold will most likely be labeled for what it is. Plus, if someone shells out 50 bucks for a game they haven't researched one bit then they really deserve what they get.

 

[MoJo|Night]

I don't think you can have too many options however I do think you can try too many new things at once.

Trying a commerce model which has never before used before along with a product delivery route which has never been tried before on top of one of the most technically advanced games of all time is just too many unknowns at once.

May well be why cs:cz has been delayed and then set for release so many times, all of which tend to coincide with fixes and failures of the steam system.

There is no doubt in my mind that cs:cz is waiting for nothing other than steam and bandwidth problems to be sorted.

There is then a massive possibilty that hl2 is waiting fo cz to test the water to see how it works and iron out the bugs first.

HL2 looks like it will be a superb game and wether it was or wasn;t ready for release around september 30th is still debatable. A traditional release may well have served valve better in terms of reputation and current hassles. However imagine what would have happened if all the current steam probs with CS and DoD had happened with a £30 retail game of hl2 purchased by millions?

 

[iamaelephant]

Originally posted by Neutrino
Well, I bet each box sold will most likely be labeled for what it is. Plus, if someone shells out 50 bucks for a game they haven't researched one bit then they really deserve what they get.

Yeah coz I always make sure I research a game before I buy it

 

[Frosty]

One time I forgot to research the game I wanted to buy, and guess what! I ended up with.... Trailer Park Tycoon! AARGH!
You see, I should have done my research. 'Cos you know, I didn't know what the box art looked like, or what letters were included in the name.

 

[clarky003]

you know I think we all secretly wish we were working for valve, and we would know all there little ideas, and secrets, and get a free game of HL2 ontop of our Pay. :bounce:

(Random comments - they either kickass, or make you look like an idiot. maybe more often the latter):dozey:

 

[DEATH eVADER]

Every Gamers dream. Collectors Edition featuring:
-HalfLife2 (DVD)
-Updated HalfLife1 (DVD)
-Extensive Multiplayer (Including Bot play)
-Headset as free gift (and... maybe a bit more)
-DoD,TFC, Counterstrike (Updated)
-Special Edition disk that includes: Interviews, concept art, and behind the scenes footage
-Description of all allies, badies, and maps (Only accessible after completing game)
-Map editor (Including SDK)
-Extensive Tutorial for Map Editor
-20% discount on top quality graphics and sound cards
-Preview of upcoming projects (HalfLife3, Team Fortress2, HalfLife:Movie)
-HalfLife: Novel written by none other, Marc Laidlaw
-Leather Briefcase (in the shape of Gmans briefcase) to stash all the content in (Optional)

 

[Neutrino]

Yeah coz I always make sure I research a game before I buy it

Well I guess some people don't. To each his own. I just like to know quite a bit about a game before I go and spend 50 dollars on it. Maybe that's just me, but it seems like a good idea.

 

[Varg|Hund]

Well I guess some people don't. To each his own. I just like to know quite a bit about a game before I go and spend 50 dollars on it. Maybe that's just me, but it seems like a good idea.

Aye, I also tend to read up on a game before shelling out my cash on it, especially as games aren't really the cheapest thing around (Student, therefore no job, and therefore no money)

 

[Ahnteis]

You're right, it's QUITE possible that Valve has underestimated the stupidity of the average gamer.

However, the concept is not at all confusing and the same basic reading and comprehension skills that you should have learned in elementary school will be sufficient to ensure that you get the right version of the game.

Additionally, it may surprise you to know that the majority of video games played are NOT played over the internet. Shocking yes, but believe it or not, those not labeled "hard core" or "l33t" are still part of the target market segment.

 

[Sandman]

Originally posted by DEATH eVADER
Every Gamers dream. Collectors Edition featuring:
-HalfLife2 (DVD)
-Updated HalfLife1 (DVD)
-Extensive Multiplayer (Including Bot play)
-Headset as free gift (and... maybe a bit more)
-DoD,TFC, Counterstrike (Updated)
-Special Edition disk that includes: Interviews, concept art, and behind the scenes footage
-Description of all allies, badies, and maps (Only accessible after completing game)
-Map editor (Including SDK)
-Extensive Tutorial for Map Editor
-20% discount on top quality graphics and sound cards
-Preview of upcoming projects (HalfLife3, Team Fortress2, HalfLife:Movie)
-HalfLife: Novel written by none other, Marc Laidlaw
-Leather Briefcase (in the shape of Gmans briefcase) to stash all the content in (Optional)

Yeah dude... that would cost like 150 bucks, but I'd still buy it lol.

 

[ferd]

I dont mean to offend Valve but i think their making Half Life 2 more confusing then it needs to be. Because you can either buy it or download it with updates you can get a single player only or grt it all together (not sure if this is all true) steam is a good idea on paper but im not sure how well its gonna work. Valve also really need to bring out more info on the game especially a release date they can stick to because people are begining to guess at stuff and making false rumours.What do you lot think?

I would do that to tbh

 

[bgesley426]

They say "updates" to the game. If that means patches, and give no other way of getting patches without Steam, then they are really screwing the hell out of a lot of people. Especially if they release it and it doesn't work on half the computers its supposed to....
I'll wait for the mods but I don't feel too comfortable paying 10 bucks a month to play CS2 considering how many people pay for servers.

 

[Vanthem]

We may be fine with the multiple options, but BlackWolf has a point. Let's remember most people still can't handle the difference between Widescreen (Letterbox) and Fullscreen (4:3) video formats.

I don't know of any other games that have been released in this way though, so once again Valve's breaking new ground. I think it's safe to say they'll sell massive truckloads of each version.

 

[Maxi]

Every Gamers dream. Collectors Edition featuring:
-HalfLife2 (DVD)
-Updated HalfLife1 (DVD)
-Extensive Multiplayer (Including Bot play)
-Headset as free gift (and... maybe a bit more)
-DoD,TFC, Counterstrike (Updated)
-Special Edition disk that includes: Interviews, concept art, and behind the scenes footage
-Description of all allies, badies, and maps (Only accessible after completing game)
-Map editor (Including SDK)
-Extensive Tutorial for Map Editor
-20% discount on top quality graphics and sound cards
-Preview of upcoming projects (HalfLife3, Team Fortress2, HalfLife:Movie)
-HalfLife: Novel written by none other, Marc Laidlaw
-Leather Briefcase (in the shape of Gmans briefcase) to stash all the content in (Optional)

That would most certanly be on my xmas list , but you forgot the blow up Gabe doll and the headcrab 1/10' steel model.

 

[Wilco]

They say "updates" to the game. If that means patches, and give no other way of getting patches without Steam, then they are really screwing the hell out of a lot of people. Especially if they release it and it doesn't work on half the computers its supposed to....
I'll wait for the mods but I don't feel too comfortable paying 10 bucks a month to play CS2 considering how many people pay for servers.

Where has all this "if u can only get it via steam" come from?

Valve has already shown that you can download cache files that update games. Im sure if they are going to release an SP only game thats assuming some people will play it without the means to download stuff online, so will include patches for Gaming Mags. They are introducing new distribution methods, but they havent got rid of the old 1's. Stop second guessing em

 

[chewysplace]

I dont mean to offend Valve but i think their making Half Life 2 more confusing then it needs to be. Because you can either buy it or download it with updates you can get a single player only or grt it all together (not sure if this is all true) steam is a good idea on paper but im not sure how well its gonna work. Valve also really need to bring out more info on the game especially a release date they can stick to because people are begining to guess at stuff and making false rumours.What do you lot think?

its all a load of crap. steam will never do anything right and the hackers will always be messing with it. especialy since they have some source code. outdated as it may be it still gives them an inch so they can take their mile. downloading it is dumb, plus now that they can make shure the game doesnt check in with the server for a cd-key. just ask the guys who made Unreal Tourmnament 2003.

 

[Varg|Hund]

its all a load of crap. steam will never do anything right

How do you know? Steam will probarly work very well some day, just give the poor guys at valve some time =)
I myself think Steam is a great idea, and I've never actually had any problem with it on my machine :smoking:

 

[chewysplace]

well dont you deserve a cookie. i've have several friend get screwed cause the security on it is crap. several Counter STrike games down the hole cause hackers broke it in 2.

 

[Varg|Hund]

well dont you deserve a cookie. i've have several friend get screwed cause the security on it is crap. several Counter STrike games down the hole cause hackers broke it in 2.

Hmm? So you're friends were playing CS, and then some hacker hacked the server? Or do you mean that their accounts were hacked? Please be more clear

And yes, I do deserve a cookie. Especially one with chocolate chips in it.
/me licks mouth.

 

[chewysplace]

accounts hacked through the server at a best guess, but their accounts had to be redone. and guess what! the steam support team didnt care. "Well you shouldnt have given your password out." well it wasnt given out, your software allowed it to be stolen.
try hanging in the 2600 irc chat sometime. you'll figure out how they do it.
blows my mind even thinking about it.

 

[Varg|Hund]

accounts hacked through the server at a best guess, but their accounts had to be redone. and guess what! the steam support team didnt care. "Well you shouldnt have given your password out." well it wasnt given out, your software allowed it to be stolen.
try hanging in the 2600 irc chat sometime. you'll figure out how they do it.
blows my mind even thinking about it.

No software is perfect, and I admit that Steam is quite lacking when it comes to security. Still, maybe your friends were only unlucky?
I know people who spend lots of time playing CS over steam, and they haven't been hacked once. I'm sure that getting your account hacked is pretty uncommon.


And the security of Steam will be vastly improved soon, seeing as they're preparing it for the launch of CZ, HL2 and TF2.

 

[chewysplace]

the fact is that the software IS buggy and teh steam staff doesnt give a dam.
yeah security will be upped, but for how long. where there is a smart guy to make security, theres and even smarter one to crack it. and so on, and so on.
i'm more burned about them not caring that it was hacked.

 

[Varg|Hund]

the fact is that the software IS buggy and teh steam staff doesnt give a dam.
yeah security will be upped, but for how long. where there is a smart guy to make security, theres and even smarter one to crack it. and so on, and so on.
i'm more burned about them not caring that it was hacked.

Yup, it was wrong of the Steam staff not to offer more support. Did your friends explain the situation properly for them? Because if they did, the support staff would have had no reason to believe that they had handed out their passwords, would they now?