"ValvE doesn't owe you SQUAT!"

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That's the title of a recently published article over at HalfLife.org. The article, which is perhaps more interesting than the repetitive overview/rundown genre sweeping gaming news giants recently, discusses community attitude and opinions since the discovery of the leaked content and official delays.

...for those who take the stance that all of the leaked source, screens, and other such illegal activities are justified due to ValvE’s silence, you are the epitome of self-absorption.
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While not everyone will agree with the views promoted in the article, it's at the very least a breath of fresh air after so many articles covering the same bases and dicussing the same issues.
 
valve's success is unmatched! No, really, what game do you know that has been argued over as much as Half-Life 2? A bit off-topic, I know, but I couldn't resist! All these drama over a delayed game. Hehehee!

I'm going to make a soap-opera out of this! Or at least a ballad!
 
well i agree with the article. They don't owe us anything and they didn't lie at all.
But people may think that, i don't care. They are mistaking not me.
Worst are the people who make conclusions about things they hear from somebody who has "the beta"which isn't a beta and not at all a full working game etc. Thats just dumb.
 
Pratt is an idiot and a mindless fanboy. If Valve had made a statement saying they didnt owe their customers squat. I tell you what I wouldnt be buying anything from them anymore.
Some of you people have a lot to learn about business and dealing with customers. You do owe your customers and if you think otherwise then goodluck if you own a business cause you aint gonna last too long.
I personally owe my customers everything!! I feel damn lucky to have them. If it wasnt for them I would not be making good money and living a decent lifestyle.
This idiot "Pratt" says that the Half-Life community is predominantly boys ages 13-16 and he expects them to act like children and pout when they dont get what they want. Well if you ask me, these kids are being very adult when demanding they get what they want. Their money is worth the same as the next guys so remember that.
:flame:
 
This article is completely correct. Valve are a great bunch of people who worked tirelessly on (in my opinion) the greatest game ever made. They created a landmark in gaming history and deservedly so.

So now, only a few months ago, we discover that they are making a sequel, and it aims to better its predecessor and every other current game available. They have been working on this game for 5 years and have kept it a secret until now. They are doing everything right and have not been hyping it for the past 3 years. They decide now is the time to release some media and start to get people excited. They're not mass-marketing and flaunting their game, they don't have to. The press come to them because they did so well in the first installment and they are expecting to see something fantastic, which they do.

A release date is announced: September 30th. Oooh, Aaaaah. Pff. I'll admit I was hoping this would be true, but I was not surprised at the delay, and I really didn't mind. If there are more issues to be resolved then let them, I want the game to be how Valve intend it to be, not bug-filled with immediate patch requirements.

Then there was the source code leak and compiled "beta" versions of the game. Now here's what is funny, how can leaked and compiled source code be "beta". Surely that is the term for official test releases of a game, not something that some angry little kid has hacked together?

And where has all this anger from the gaming community come from? "Valve lied! Everything is scripted!" "Valve should be explaining themselves!" Why? Why should they? This is leaked code that for all we know isn't even part of the final build!

Valve owe us nothing at all and are probably now regretting they even mentioned a sequel was being made, instead just publishing the game without any fanfare at all. It's the selfish and ignorant gamers who are judging Valve on this code that need to keep quiet and wait for the game to hit the shelves.
 
A great article. It confirms what i've thought for a long time: the majority of the whiners in this sorry affair are a bunch of whining children.

If I don't play HL2 it'll be a shame, but there are lots of other neat things in the world to do.
 
Originally posted by shiv
Pratt is an idiot and a mindless fanboy. If Valve had made a statement saying they didnt owe their customers squat. I tell you what I wouldnt be buying anything from them anymore.
Some of you people have a lot to learn about business and dealing with customers. You do owe your customers and if you think otherwise then goodluck if you own a business cause you aint gonna last too long.
I personally owe my customers everything!! I feel damn lucky to have them. If it wasnt for them I would not be making good money and living a decent lifestyle.
This idiot "Pratt" says that the Half-Life community is predominantly boys ages 13-16 and he expects them to act like children and pout when they dont get what they want. Well if you ask me, these kids are being very adult when demanding they get what they want. Their money is worth the same as the next guys so remember that.
:flame:
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Yes you owe your customers everything. A good product. With good service. Halflife2 isnt out yet so there isn't a product. And thus no service yet (patches and stuff) So the customers are allready whining before the product is out, hell some of those customers are even delaying it themselfs. Nobody has paid any money yet. Even not those 13-16 years old.
 
Originally posted by PunitoR
Yes you owe your customers everything. A good product. With good service. Halflife2 isnt out yet so there isn't a product. And thus no service yet (patches and stuff) So the customers are allready whining before the product is out, hell some of those customers are even delaying it themselfs. Nobody has paid any money yet. Even not those 13-16 years old.
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You're forgetting the idiots who pre-ordered with EB, Amazon etc
 
Originally posted by shiv
Pratt is an idiot and a mindless fanboy. If Valve had made a statement saying they didnt owe their customers squat. I tell you what I wouldnt be buying anything from them anymore.
Some of you people have a lot to learn about business and dealing with customers. You do owe your customers and if you think otherwise then goodluck if you own a business cause you aint gonna last too long.
I personally owe my customers everything!! I feel damn lucky to have them. If it wasnt for them I would not be making good money and living a decent lifestyle.
This idiot "Pratt" says that the Half-Life community is predominantly boys ages 13-16 and he expects them to act like children and pout when they dont get what they want. Well if you ask me, these kids are being very adult when demanding they get what they want. Their money is worth the same as the next guys so remember that.
:flame:
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An elaborate version of 'without us there would be no Valve'? Well, same goes for 'without Valve there would be no us'. They've paid of their duties by giving you 5 years of support, it's safe to say they've given value for your money. You've gotten that 50 bucks back in the form of playtime and support. So now, they don't owe you ANYTHING. They would owe you something if HL2 would be out and you paid money for it, but since I can't seem to find HL2 in the stores, they have no obligations to you.
I can't understand the arrogance of people here thinking they have the right to interfere with the developement proces of HL2.
So until they release the game, and you paid your 50 bucks for it, Valve doesn't owe you shit.
 
Totally agree. Let Valve work and meanwhile play another game to forget this obsesion.

And is true that people ordered hardware and preorder the game, but they just bet on something. And they are angry now because the delay. Hey, a bet is a bet, right?
 
i just think valve should clear up after their own mistakes.


Valve get hacked they have to live with it and not lie to the customers saying they were going to make the 30th when they knew they would NEVER make that date.

i was a day away from buying £500 worth of stuff to upgrade my comp.

if i had whent ahead and bought it i would have paid 500 when i could have waited 3-4 months and got all the same stuff mutch cheaper because the new GFX cards coming out and P4's etc.

Valve knew they would never hit the 30th deadline and they still told fans to go ahead and upgrade anyway.


ppl always bitch about EA sucking the life outa a game to make $$$ but at least they tell you the bloody truth about the game and not a load of BS.
 
He's completely correct, though maybe wrong about Valve saying things implying that the game was almost done (they pretty much did). But for goodness sakes: the game is in PRODUCTION. The fact is, they don't have to talk to us at ALL if they don't want to. Many many game companies don't talk about the games they are creating except once or twice on PR junkets to magazines. Valve has given us unprecedented access to their thoughts and plans, and as a result, we've also gained access to a fact of life in game design setbacks, missed deadlines, and and mistakes. They obviously do this because they love talking with fans. However, the childish and nasty attacks on them because of it are going to make them think twice about ever being so open to us again. And that's too bad.
 
Originally posted by Dougy
i just think valve should clear up after their own mistakes.


Valve get hacked they have to live with it and not lie to the customers saying they were going to make the 30th when they knew they would NEVER make that date.

i was a day away from buying £500 worth of stuff to upgrade my comp.

if i had whent ahead and bought it i would have paid 500 when i could have waited 3-4 months and got all the same stuff mutch cheaper because the new GFX cards coming out and P4's etc.

Valve knew they would never hit the 30th deadline and they still told fans to go ahead and upgrade anyway.


ppl always bitch about EA sucking the life outa a game to make $$$ but at least they tell you the bloody truth about the game and not a load of BS.
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Valve never told no one to buy any hardware. You just asumed it.

Ati was tolding people that their 9800TX will be bundled with HL2.

We are all victims of high expectations. And I agree that it would have been better not to set a day and month for a launch. Thats where idSoftware got ir right.
 
We should all try to stay positive. Bitching isn't going to help.
Maybe we should organize a paintshop contest. Everybody could submit a funny cartoon they made, good or mediocre, and there could be a vote. The best one could win something, and we could all have a laugh again.

"SUBMIT YOUR CARTOON WEEK"

What do you think HL2 staff?
 
When you buy a video game (or anything else for that matter) and take it home and use it, and it meets or exceeds your expectation, the transaction is over. Saying, or otherwise DEMANDING that you are somehow owed more the more you use it is not only selfish, it is absolutely backwards thinking.
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That's wrong. A good developer SUPPORTS his game, and enhances it along the way. Valve did a damn fine job of this, as has DICE with BF1942. This guy's a self absorbed person who knows little about gaming or business. I agree that people are bitching far too much, but, we are the customer, let valve or this amateur "journalist" never forget that.
 
I totally agree. Till ValvE has our $50 in hand (or whatever meager portion of our $50 they actually see), they don't owe us a damn thing. Even after that, all they owe us is a complete and bug free game with tech support. Whatever else they decide to throw our way is a bonus.
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
I totally agree. Till ValvE has our $50 in hand (or whatever meager portion of our $50 they actually see), they don't owe us a damn thing. Even after that, all they owe us is a complete and bug free game with tech support. Whatever else they decide to throw our way is a bonus.
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totally agree dude
 
OK people, let's all take a step back and look at the big picture. We'll start by going over the facts. First valve announces, not too long ago, that they are making half-life 2. Then they tell us that it's set for release on Sept. 30th. They release some awesome videos with "no scripted AI sequences" Then, a week before the release date, they tell us it'll be set back a few months. So then some jerk hacks in and steals the source, then releases this pre-beta version of the game. Someone who claims to be him proclaims loudly that valve lied to us and that they aren't anywhere near completion. This topic explodes onto forums and chat rooms everywhere, and the whole world gets pissed. All the while, for reasons we can only imagine, Valve remains silent.
Ok, so now that we have all of the facts laid out, let's look at the topic of this thread: Does Valve owe us Squat? The answer is yes and no. Valve doesn't have to give us any information on Half-life 2. They don't have to give us in-game videos, or E3 presentations, they don't even have to give us release dates. It's their product, their property, and their decision. So in that respect, they don't owe us squat. But Valve graciously chose to share this information with us, as they always have, and for that valve should be appauded. However, when valve makes the decision to share details about half-life 2 with us, then they do start to owe us something, namely, honesty. And maybe they have been honest with us, maybe they truly thought that they would make the Sept. release date until they discovered some terrible bug in the game and had to fix it. But then when this "Anonymous leaker" releases a third of the source code for HL2, valve states that only a third of the source code was stolen. Then the hacker releases a sort of working pre-beta version. Did valve not know that the leaker had also taken the beta? Or did they lie to us?
Then there's the scripted sequences for the AI. Valve stated during their E3 presentation that there were none. However, the beta shows that the AI was indeed scripted. Was the beta an older version, or did valve lie to us?
The only people who know the answers to these questions is Valve. As long as they remain silent, we can only speculate and come up with weird conspiracy theories. However, valve does not owe us answers to these questions. It's their decision whether they talk about their product or not. But when they do talk about their product, then they owe it to us to be honest. Maybe they're being careful now and they'll never talk about half-life 2 again until one day we see it on the shelves in the store. Or maybe they did lie to us and they don't want to make an official statement. The bottom line is, as much as we would like to have answers, we don't, and we probably won't for a while. Does Valve owe us squat? In the end, it depends on Valve.
 
pardon my ignorance, but what is the significance of the caplitalized E at the end of ValvE? I thought it was a typo in that article, but it is written that way a few times... it it just cuz TyPiNg LiKe ThIs Is RaD or for a real reason?
 
Oh, so when Mr.Big Journalist says it, everyone agrees. But when I say it...

Ok... I see how it is....

...:p
 
My feelings are similar. Valve doesn't owe us anything. Just as we don't owe Valve anything.
 
Originally posted by Apos
Valve has given us unprecedented access to their thoughts and plans
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I wouldnt say unprecedented. WWII Online developers have by far been the most involved in their community. Just the other day on the forums they asked everyone their opinion on an issue and to vote yes or no. I know this is off topic but just making a point.

Valve has done a excellent job giving us info compared to other companies of their status. Valve owes us nothing unless we handed our money in and have a copy of HL2 in our hands. Pre-orders do not count. You are paying Amazon or EB to hold your game for you. Not valve.
 
i agree to the news post. Valve dont owe us sh*t. i know wish they just made the game a secert up till release. that would rule.
 
TO all those that have HL2 beta! Do not be disappoint ;( in this game! What this so called hacker took was some1's napkin drawing! Its not the work of 5 years even though its all or 1/3 of the game...he says! Think of it like this HL2 is a Snickers candy bar in all its tasty glory, and HL2-beta is some1 giving u peanutts, carmel, and chocolate. Telling you to smush it in your mouth and then calling it a Snickers! note:beta does not mean better it mean pleather, as in fake...leather=HL2! Just wait till HL2 comes out, it will be nothing like this trash called beta (dont get me wrong beta looks good but HL2 will be so much more) CHEERS!:cheers:
 
Originally posted by Nannox
TO all those that have HL2 beta! Do not be disappoint ;( in this game! What this so called hacker took was some1's napkin drawing! Its not the work of 5 years even though its all or 1/3 of the game...he says! Think of it like this HL2 is a Snickers candy bar in all its tasty glory, and HL2-beta is some1 giving u peanutts, carmel, and chocolate. Telling you to smush it in your mouth and then calling it a Snickers! note:beta does not mean better it mean pleather, as in fake...leather=HL2! Just wait till HL2 comes out, it will be nothing like this trash called beta (dont get me wrong beta looks good but HL2 will be so much more) CHEERS!:cheers:
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The stolen files (I wont call it a beta cause it ain't one) simply show the stage they were at years ago. The official E3 vids show the stage they were at I think someone said around the beginning of this year. It's like shaking a box to see whats inside, you can only make a best guess but nobody, not nobody outside of Valve knows what the game currently looks like or is capable of.

But as a yard stick, what they had ages ago was already far ahead of the competition (ok so DoomIII is pretty advanced, but it just doesn't look as refined, and I hate to say it but most of the environments shown for DoomIII look very bulky and basic, like a newbie 3D guys first attempt with bump maps and texturing. Maybe thats the style they were after, but I prefer the realism that HL2 is heading for. The game is gonna rock, and unlike most things I don't even think tons of hype is going to harm it either, fact is HL2 is very likely to exceed expectations and hype by quite a margin, and while I don't normally entertain smug gits, I think when its finally released Valve will be quite entitled to sit with smug grins on their faces. I know if I were in their shoes I would heh

Course the problem with being the best, is you raise the bar so high you have to be twice as good the next time or the media and public will eat you alive. Look at the people who did Final Fantasy and Flight of the Osiris. They raised the bar way too high beyond their own abilities, they can't do anything new now, they hit the ceiling and have lost that wow factor edge, that kind of realism is expected from them now. Short term it probably seemed like a good idea, but they obviously didn't think ahead a few years, how do they top that now, they can't, but others will cause they paced themselves, isntead of jumping straight to the top others take things slower, spread out their work for many more years, though if those who did FF and FOTO actually came up with a decent story then that would be something, wont happen though ;)

I can't see a storyline being a problem for Valve, only the capabilities of current systems. It's highly likely, since they've said their planning HL3, that they commissioned the story for that at the same time, for continuity. So they'll have the story sorted, but how will they top HL2 from a technical and visual aspect. Right now they can't, computers just couldn't handle much more. Another five years might be a different story though

Ok that got me to thinking, what do people expect could appear in HL3, if for example they create a SouceII engine for it (and after the theft its more likely they will write another now, and protect it more too) So have there been any other threads in the past here that talked about what we could expect for HL3. Or should be start a new thread on that now, just want to check without ending up repeating stuff

Cheers
 
CSJAWS, great post, very objective. I agree with you 100%. There was just one little thing that got my attention.

Originally posted by CSJAWS
Then there's the scripted sequences for the AI. Valve stated during their E3 presentation that there were none. However, the beta shows that the AI was indeed scripted. Was the beta an older version, or did valve lie to us?
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A lot of people have said this, so I suppose it's true. I was just wondering... I remember only one time when they said nothing was scripted, and that was during the Kleiner's Lab scene. Does anyone remember any other occasions and could possibly point me an url for an interview or something? I undestand that they must have said the thing about non-scripted AI during Traptown or something, I'd just like to see it myself.
 
ValvE doesn't owe you SQUAT!

Wrong I am afraid, Valve have a large fanbase which makes Valve more attractive to publishers who in turn would be prepared to assist for what is seen as a 'practically sold" product.

You could compare fans of a game to regulars in a bar, its the regulars that give the bar stability to keep going even during lean times. Its true the bar would not owe the regulars anything, but some attention ensures the regulars satisfaction and continued business.

I would suggest to Valve that they release some official information to allay fears and stop unfounded rumours/conspiricies.

Additionally Valve also have another product, Steam and the appear to be tight lipped regarding that product too - I have posted in the Steam forums (suggestions and a plea for assistance) to no avail and I have e-mailed various Valve members with no reply. My posts/e-mails were polite and requested some assistance/info/comments, and thanks was given in advanced...only to be ignored.

Valve don't owe us videos, demo's, money ect ect...they owe thier fanbase reassurance that all is well.
 
Valve doesn't owe their fanbase any reassurance at all. Sure, we'd all like to have some assurance, but that doesn't mean valve has to give it to us. It's like saying that the author of a book owes it to us to tell us all about his book before it comes out. He doesn't have to tell anyone anything. He can choose to remain completely silent, or he can give away details about the book. It's his decision.
Now in the case of valve and half-life 2, I don't think that silence is the best thing for them right now. Giving their fanbase some reassurance would be very good for valve, not only would it make us all a little happier, but it would quiet all of the insane theories floating around. It's simply not a good marketing technique to keep completely silent while your fans are pissed. However, valve still doesn't owe it to us to give us some answers. It is their decision.
 
If u do hate valve then why are u people still hanging out here? if u hate them then that means u wont buy the game from them. So once again why are u here if u arent going to buy it and u dislike vavle so damn much?
 
Although I wasn`t able to find VALVe`s statement on the not scripted ai, but I would like to point some things out. When they say, that the ai is not scripted, that does not mean that there are no scripted events in the game. There certainly are. Things like dialogues and heavy parts of the interactive story will still be scripted. And if VALVe did not say that exactly the door feature is not scripted they did not lie to us. But on the other hand, i have not seen any proof or heard it from a second person, that the door would open if you killed the soldier anyways. Can`t reproduce it myself though... I don`t have the leak.
 
Reproducing something from a leak would be futile anyway. No-one but Valve knows what state the compiled leak was in compared to the proposed final build.
 
Ok first off I am not a member of the "Valve is teh suck" group, nor am I a Valve fanboi - I am a intrested prospective customer that is looking for official information regarding Valves product.

I am arguing the statement "ValvE doesn't owe you SQUAT!", not saying Valve is teh suxor ect ect.

Try view this statement from a prospective customers point of view - I have seen the adverts and videos , now I wish to find more information regarding the product, however the official site has very little to no real information. HL2.net seems to be a repected source of information thus I am here.

Valve, through advertising, has gained my intrest and pending any serious reviews of the product, I may or may not purchase this product. Considering the last sequence of events (Code theft, leaks and delay) I would naturally need to be informed of the status of the product, if I do not recieve any adequate information I may look elsewhere for my gaming entertainment.

Thats is why Valve owes us reassurance, reasurrance the product is still viable, and a new date for release so customers may make plans to purchase at a later date rather than wasting time speculating on unfounded rumours and conspiricies.

Please remeber when/if you answer this is a discussion, and to discuss you need at least two points of view, I am arguing one point please argue your point rationally.
 
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