Valve owes you nothing ! You owe them your support !

S

Sleestak

Guest
I haven't played the leaked beta and honestly as tempting as it is I think I might wait and just buy the game (hopefully in November) when it comes out. Isn't it funny how when things like this happen people turn their backs on a company that has provided so much joy and simply the largest PC game of all time (HalfLife 1). Which still to this day has a huge Mod Community and they are about to trump it with the next big thing (HL2). It's amazing to me that people are downing Valve for security when in fact the flaw in security came through Outlook and could possibly be because they stay so closely in touch with the fans. So basically in the end WE are to blame because WE like a company that pays attention to US because WE buy and love their games. Oh, but when that attention to US opens a flaw in their system and something happens we all the sudden turn our backs on them. What the Hell ? What's the point of being a game developer if that's how it is.

Don't you understand that since day one Valve has been there for YOU giving YOU the tools to create whatever YOU want out of their game. Do you see any other companies making full scale retail fan mods of their game and putting it on the market like they do (Gunman/ Counter Strike/ Day of Defeat/ Team Fortress).

By the way they spent most of their money on making HL2 so YOU could play it and have an amazing experience. They don't have some sort of agenda here. Does that make sense ? They are the only company that would do this for the community. For YOU !!!

I think everyone needs to talk about how unbelievable this game is going to be and flood Valve's email and let them know how much you can't wait for this to be finished. It's all about respecting their work ! Do YOU honestly have that respect ?

Hell, If there's one thing I've read over and over again about the leak is how damn fun it is to play. If this incomplete joke of a skeleton of Half Life 2 is fun then just imagine what Valve's truly created here. A Masterpiece. Unfortunately noone's really talking about how much we are proud of Valve for Half Life 1 and now can't wait for HL2.

Look I don't condone people playing the leak...curiosity is tough to fight sometimes. Just buy the game and show them your support right now !!! That's how Valve makes it's living. Watch...it'll be out soon and everyone will forget about all this talk about Valve. People will go from downing them to kissing their ass because they ARE the baddest developers out there and they make great games for YOU !!!

Don't forget that...they owe you nothing ! Honestly before E3 did any of you really think you would see HL2 by the end of this year ! Surprise ! Happy Christmas 2003 from Valve ! Jesus...where's the love ?

Ssk

As far as I'm concerned Valve just did another amazing thing for the game community and sacrificed themselves...they made every other game developer/ game lover realize how important it is to keep your intellectual properties secure ! They have changed the face of gaming once again !!! God bless' em !

Sorry this was so damn long...I just couldn't hold it in any longer.
 
its a rich company they dont NEED anyones support.
They made millions off Half Life.

they already know people want to play their game, and want to make money at the same time.
 
reply

Man, you just proved my point ! Damn ! You don't think it takes millions to create games nowadays. Also it takes tons of cash to create unique systems for a game like HL2. AI systems, Facial animations, etc...they don't develop themselves. Also notice how easy it's been for HL1 models to be imported into the HL2 engine. Do you think by some odd chance that they intended for HL1 to be able to be played with the HL2 engine when the game comes out. Hmmm...backward Compatability that's a first...pretty innovative if you ask me !

But I guess they should be blamed for wanting to make money anyways...bastards !!!!

BTW the last I heard Gabe drives a Honda Accord I think !

SSk
 
Gabe Newell and Mike Harrington already had millions when they formed Valve.
 
Nah, he has a point.
Valve are an incredible team, they are a great team. They made the best game in the world, Half-Life. When you make a game that brilliant, you kinda develop a certain trust with the developers, and I know hl2 will deliver in every way. Whoever stole the source code is a shelfish prat. Full stop. Even if he thinks that valve were lying to us, big deal about the release date, who cares. The game industry is hit and miss, and unpredictable, and even though we know hl2 will sell by the bucketloads ( It better knock the sims off the charts) they will lose out considerably. Every penny made from half life went into hl2 apparently, so that half the code is out on the internet is not good.
We love you valve... no really! Please, don't run away!
 
yes he does have a point, it's just that his point has already been stated on these boards many times before.
 
qckbeam,

How can you be sick of threads like this. You are making a mod for Halflife 2, right ? Why aren't you making a mod for Doom 3 or some other license...because Valve supports YOU ! Man, don't bite the hand that feeds...LOL !

SsK
 
qckbeam,

Fortunately there are alot of threads like this and since we're on Halflife2.net I figured the people that come on this board especially during a time like this (people looking up leak info) need to read a message like this in a very current thread. Keep it going !!!

SsK
 
Gimme a freakin' break!

I'm so sick of this. There are about 100 threads stating the same crap.

People who are confident in their convictions don't feel the need to convince others to follow those convictions.

And don't start with the "Why aren't you doing a mod for one game vs another" shit. Valve doesn't support mod makers any more than Epic or Id, they just make more money off of them.
 
Many of you think Valve is something like Red Cross in gaming. YOu all need to wake up. They're in this biz to make money , period. Why do they support mod makers ? IT brings them money. More mods , more people will buy original game so they can play the mod. IF I buy a game i expect support. IF i dont get it , (EA games) i dont buy their future products , period. Certainly they dont owe you any support but it IS smart biz move to support your clients EVEN after they bought your product.

IN the end nobody owes nobody. YOu bought your product Vavle supported it. They answer you questions , you share your experience with bunch of friends , free marketing for them. Simple as that. But it's all done to make money , not becasue they like your font size or that p0rn pic you attached to e-mail.
 
Originally posted by Sleestak
I haven't played the leaked beta and honestly as tempting as it is I think I might wait and just buy the game (hopefully in November) when it comes out. Isn't it funny how when things like this happen people turn their backs on a company that has provided so much joy and simply the largest PC game of all time (HalfLife 1). Which still to this day has a huge Mod Community and they are about to trump it with the next big thing (HL2). It's amazing to me that people are downing Valve for security when in fact the flaw in security came through Outlook and could possibly be because they stay so closely in touch with the fans. So basically in the end WE are to blame because WE like a company that pays attention to US because WE buy and love their games. Oh, but when that attention to US opens a flaw in their system and something happens we all the sudden turn our backs on them. What the Hell ? What's the point of being a game developer if that's how it is.

Don't you understand that since day one Valve has been there for YOU giving YOU the tools to create whatever YOU want out of their game. Do you see any other companies making full scale retail fan mods of their game and putting it on the market like they do (Gunman/ Counter Strike/ Day of Defeat/ Team Fortress).

By the way they spent most of their money on making HL2 so YOU could play it and have an amazing experience. They don't have some sort of agenda here. Does that make sense ? They are the only company that would do this for the community. For YOU !!!

I think everyone needs to talk about how unbelievable this game is going to be and flood Valve's email and let them know how much you can't wait for this to be finished. It's all about respecting their work ! Do YOU honestly have that respect ?

Hell, If there's one thing I've read over and over again about the leak is how damn fun it is to play. If this incomplete joke of a skeleton of Half Life 2 is fun then just imagine what Valve's truly created here. A Masterpiece. Unfortunately noone's really talking about how much we are proud of Valve for Half Life 1 and now can't wait for HL2.

Look I don't condone people playing the leak...curiosity is tough to fight sometimes. Just buy the game and show them your support right now !!! That's how Valve makes it's living. Watch...it'll be out soon and everyone will forget about all this talk about Valve. People will go from downing them to kissing their ass because they ARE the baddest developers out there and they make great games for YOU !!!

Don't forget that...they owe you nothing ! Honestly before E3 did any of you really think you would see HL2 by the end of this year ! Surprise ! Happy Christmas 2003 from Valve ! Jesus...where's the love ?

Ssk

As far as I'm concerned Valve just did another amazing thing for the game community and sacrificed themselves...they made every other game developer/ game lover realize how important it is to keep your intellectual properties secure ! They have changed the face of gaming once again !!! God bless' em !

Sorry this was so damn long...I just couldn't hold it in any longer.
Click to expand...

i owe valve f*** all.

its not my fault their retarded and get hacked.

its not my fault they lied to the community 3 times.


come to think of it why do i even bother replying to you? i mean your obviously some dumbass kid whos seen the E3 video and has let it all go to his head.


:dozey:
 
Ah, geez, not this crap again.

Look, the business/customer relationship is symbiotic. If either side starts doing more taking than giving, the system breaks down and you wind up with unhappy customers and/or an unsuccessful business.
 
They deserve everyones support. They care about the community and the players , they talk to the community. Sometimes they are act a little strange but most of the time they are humble and cordial.

The only thing I would ask of them is to listen to common sense and business sense and get HL2 SP out ASAP before its ruined by disenchanted beta-players. The beta contains the story and its SO hard to not go through the whole thing and ruin it. I cannot believe that a large number of people who DLed the beta havent already seen the whole story and possibly will become uninterested in the game and so not buy it and support Valve as a company , not individuals , when it comes out retail.
 
OK. I DL the "file" and play it, and I buy the game when it comes out.

Your point being?

I do not think anoyone that DL the "file" is going to be happy with it. Its like these movies on the internet. While some of them are of good quality does it ever replace the $2.50 for the rental fee, or $$ you spend to buy it if you really like it? I dont think so.
 
Originally posted by Unnamed_Player
Gimme a freakin' break!

I'm so sick of this. There are about 100 threads stating the same crap.

People who are confident in their convictions don't feel the need to convince others to follow those convictions.

And don't start with the "Why aren't you doing a mod for one game vs another" shit. Valve doesn't support mod makers any more than Epic or Id, they just make more money off of them.
Click to expand...


true but it dosnt mean that people have the right to "hack" into the company and STEAL their software.....
 
Originally posted by wally007
Many of you think Valve is something like Red Cross in gaming. YOu all need to wake up. They're in this biz to make money , period. Why do they support mod makers ? IT brings them money. More mods , more people will buy original game so they can play the mod. IF I buy a game i expect support. IF i dont get it , (EA games) i dont buy their future products , period. Certainly they dont owe you any support but it IS smart biz move to support your clients EVEN after they bought your product.

IN the end nobody owes nobody. YOu bought your product Vavle supported it. They answer you questions , you share your experience with bunch of friends , free marketing for them. Simple as that. But it's all done to make money , not becasue they like your font size or that p0rn pic you attached to e-mail.
Click to expand...


Very Very true but as i said above just because they are into it for the money dosnt mean we can rip them off........(lol personaly they have had the second best tech support for me....blizzard was best for me)
 
I find it very hard to believe the people DL the "file" are ripping them off. Can you honestly tell me you would (or anyone else for that matter) want an imcomplete game compared to a complete game fully supported by the creators? Now if you were DL the COMPLETE game off a warez site AFTER the game was completed then you have an arguement. Then you are getting the complete TRUE game without supporting the Valve team. This is nothing. ooo I know that a new weapon is a pair of glasses that shoot laser beams, now the game is ruined Im not going to buy it..... sheeesh you people kill me.
 
It's the principle behind it. The seeming presence or absence of concrete consequences should never be used as a moral guide. If it's wrong to steal then it is wrong in every instance whether you think it's hurting anybody or not.

Seriously, dude, have a backbone.
 
lol i just realised that blizzard and valve are owned by the same people lol vivendi
 
I owe them? WHO the F*CK are you to say that! I am the CUSTOMER or is that concept to hard for you to understand? I pay for a service then we are even, they can support said service, IF they want my continued bussiness, if not then oh well. But at NO point DO I OWE THEM ANYTHING!
 
Originally posted by DeathlyProfound
true but it dosnt mean that people have the right to "hack" into the company and STEAL their software.....
Click to expand...

No one's arguing the point of whether the hacking was wrong or not. Clearly it was a heinous act and should be punished.

What's pissing me off is a bunch of people clearly trying to push their moralistic view of the world on other people. If you think it's wrong to download the source or the beta don't do it and be secure in the knowledge that you made the right decision for you.

Moral and ethical decisions have to be made by each person individually and only someone who is unsure of their decision tries to push that decision on others in the misguided belief that if more people openly think the way they do they must be "right".

Nobody thought it was so bad ripping off the music industry all these years.
 
It's a Symbiotic Mutual Relationship. Simply put, we need eachother. There is one way. They need us to buy their games, we nee them to make our games. It's that simple. Imagine if VALVe said they didn't care anymore about the project, and didn't care about the community...you'd all ask why, you'd cry and moan. And that's what you're all doing right now. I think they should be more open & honest, yes, but they don't owe it to us. It's just not the way you should treat your fans, in normal cases. And This isn't a normal case. VALVe has the weight of the world on their soulders with a hugely anticipated release, a hacker just stole some early dev content, and a large part of the community is coming down on them for it. Yeah, likes it's their fault this happened. I don't know if it's a PR scam or not, but until I see proof it is I give my sympathy to VALVe. I say you all wait for the game and see. There's no homage for anyone to pay, you'll all be praising VALVe come Christmas, though. Wait and see.
BAM! Suckas.

-Ghost.
 
Ive done everything to help valve , i cant do anymore then i have already done.
 
My only answer to the topic: Without the money from customers, there would be no Valve.

'nuff said
 
Ok, this "valve deserves our support" shit is posted too much.. they dont need anything from us they are millionairs as it is..


:dozey: headcrabs..
 
Alright, this has gotten interesting. It sounds like you think I have some holyer than though attitude or something. I promise you...I don't.

By the way I am not some little kid with an attitude. I am a musician who has multiple records actually sitting on shelves in Best Buy and I have stuff downloaded from me everyday. Honestly though I think downloading only helps the buzz about a band or software company, that's why I said I don't condone it.

What I am saying though is there is a big difference between stealing someone's music and stealing the source code for a game. That is how they make their livelyhood...by licensing the technology to other companies. Think about it, stealing the source code would be like you stealing my instrument and every bit of knowledge I have about how I write songs. It's not really the same as downloading music now is it. When you download a song, it's would be like downloading a chapter of a game. You can't really hack it or mess with the models or whatever. That's what's happening now though with Halflife 2.

OpFor5,

Quote:
I owe them? WHO the F*CK are you to say that! I am the CUSTOMER or is that concept to hard for you to understand? I pay for a service then we are even, they can support said service, IF they want my continued bussiness, if not then oh well. But at NO point DO I OWE THEM ANYTHING!

Hostility...I love it ! Let me get this straight did they actually release a game called Halflife2 yet that you own and paid money for ? Have they had bad customer support in the past ? No... in what way do they owe you "The Customer" anything. I think they've held their end of the bargain. If you disrespect the company and what they do for a living then why even come to Halflife2.net. I think their way of supporting YOU is by creating Halflife 2 to continue the story. Right !

With my post about oweing them I was merely saying that first and foremost everyone thinks Valve owes them because:

1.They said they would release on Sept. 30th and they didn't. Big frickin deal, how many times has that happened before with other games. I guess it would've been better if they said it'll be released when it's done like ID or DNF.

2.There are scripted events in HL2 instead of pure AI. This is pure speculation...noone knows how far along the build that's out is, everyone's purely going off of the time stamp in the right hand corner.

3.They used scripted events at e3 and said it was AI. Again, pure speculation. There's no way anyone could possibly know this. Also many game companies show things that are versions of what will be seen...hell look at Halo at e3. Things change so that's why I could understand if they did use scripted events. Also by looking at Valve's track record and technology demo of the physics I can honestly say if anyone can pull off AI like that...Valve can.

4.Also it seems people are pissed because Valve is going to ship Halflife 2 with the new ATI card. Wouldn't you partner up with the card that will give people the best results and the best experience of the game. Happens all the time.

So what ground does the consumer have to stand on in this situation with Valve ? It seems like everything's pure speculation. If this was a court room the case would be thrown out on lack of evidence. What does a timestamp prove ? Again at this point what does Valve owe YOU for their hard work ? I think they're trying to give it to you if you'd give them a chance to... you owe them the respect of waiting till the paint dries on the canvas before judging it.

SsK
 
Originally posted by Mountain Man
It's the principle behind it. The seeming presence or absence of concrete consequences should never be used as a moral guide. If it's wrong to steal then it is wrong in every instance whether you think it's hurting anybody or not.

Seriously, dude, have a backbone.
Click to expand...

OK Im going with the topic started not debating the principles. Yes it is wrong what was done. In any context. BUT saying they are "loosing" money and they need our support for that is incorrect due to my resoning. Now getting the help from "us" is the support they are recieving.

We are not talking morals here AND if we were that would be a different subject. We are talking about supporting Valve. If the people that DL the "file" turn around and buy the product how is that NOT supporting Valve?

Now if you were to buy a competitors game that was using the "files" that were stolen then you would not be supporting Valve.

Its not like you stole a piece of candy that effects the pricing, supplier, retailer, and trickles down to the consumer.

Is it wrong (DL the file) morally...yes. Does it show your lack of "support" for Valve? No not if you buy the game.
 
Originally posted by Sleestak

What I am saying though is there is a big difference between stealing someone's music and stealing the source code for a game. That is how they make their livelyhood...by licensing the technology to other companies. Think about it, stealing the source code would be like you stealing my instrument and every bit of knowledge I have about how I write songs.
Click to expand...

Uh no. They still have the code. You want to think of it more of someone stole a copy of the "file". They can still license the "file" out. It is more like DL a song. It can not compare to taking your instruments. Taking your instruments would leave you without anything to play with. They still have the "file" to play with.

BTW....Who are you? You piqued my curiosity. PM me if you like.
 
I DON'T OWE VALVE ANYTHING

I like that one, too.^ :E
 
Well, maybe I owe them something... I did only pay 50$ for hundreds of hours of fun.. :(
 
Valve owe me!

for having to read all these utterly retarded threads.

i mean seriously its like asking ppl to buy a bands album cos they listened to a song from their last album, and then saying we owe it to them?

wtf

:x *cant take these headcrabs anymore*
 
Originally posted by Tork
Ive done everything to help valve , i cant do anymore then i have already done.
Click to expand...

Need some help Tork...hope you see this...come on AIM
 
And what's this "we owe Valve" stuff?

"We" don't owe Valve crap. Valve is a company that produces entertainment products and "we" are the customers that buy said products (or potential customers I should say). That is it. I don't owe Valve a goddamn thing except the cash that I pay to buy my copy of their game. And that's as far as my obligation as customer extends.
 
Aknot,

I think it makes perfect sense. By instruments I mean their proprietary ideas, thoughts in the code. Also at this point why would anyone license it if they can get it for free from the net. Especially with the hacks and such that will be involved with this code, it makes no sense for any company. it's too risky. Also a "copy" of the code is enough unfortunately. If you download a song do you know how I wrote that song ? No... So it's obviously not the same. If I gave you a song and it had the exact instruments I used, sheet music, ideas as to why a part is the way it is, secrets ,etc.. then it would be the same. At this point alot of this is just apples and oranges. Honestly at this point after reading the messages I hope Valve goes after the people responsible, halts PC development of HL2 and just works to bring it out for the XBox and next gen consoles for 2004-2005. If people think they can just trample all over developers like this that is exactly what will happen. Developers are not stupid.

As far as who I am...don't ask because it's not important.

SsK
 
"As far as who I am...don't ask because it's not important." I asked because you said you had music out. Just being curious/friendly.

Only a "fool" would create a game using the Source engine in part or full. If I created a browser using source code from Microsoft without their permission how long do you think it would take for the lawyers to knock at my door. Same with the source code. So how does this effect HL2 the game? or Valve creating HL2? Cheats and circumventing the "CD key". Which creates more time for the game to be created/corrected. That is about the only thing they SHOULD loose. Time and "X" months of money it takes to correct/protect. I have no problem with Valve going after the person(s) and dropping the boot of justice. What I do have a problem with is people saying that because someone plays a leaked INCOMPLETE game will have ramifications with Valves pockets. I can almost say with total confidence that regardless if you played the "beta" or not you are still going to PURCHASE the game. The point which you brought up in your original thread: "Just buy the game and show them your support right now !!!" Cant buy it right but will when it comes out. As for halting the PC title it would not be worth it in the finance department. I will go on record saying that if they do not get it on the shelf in 6 months they will have lost to much money and time. Like I said I was more curious about your music then anything. I like a good "debate" and it is all water of a duck. You have your views and I have mine, thats what make people people.
 
If I can make my own code from Valve's code that's available on the net why would I pay to use their code when their code is an open book not only for me but for every other hacker out there. The engine is a liability now. From what I understand it's not very difficult to open up Valve's source code see how they did things like handling the Strider movements and then start to create your own code from it. Look at what people are doing already with it. It's basically Valves work to try and create unique systems that they lose. People can take that code and make their own and there's no way Valve's lawyers will be able to prosecute anyone over it. There's no way to know. The code leak ends up hurting the game and Valve in the end because these pieces of code are the things that make Halflife 2 stand out above the rest.

SsK
 
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