Valve owes you NOTHING

[CyberSh33p]

The way some people talk, it's as if Valve are sittig in their offices, doing no work and just laughing and joking about how much they hate the community, whilst purposefully going out of their way to annoy fans.
Forget it, I'm not going to carry one because: a) it will do no good; b) I'll probably just be regurgitating what everyone else on this jostling band-wagon's already said. Which is exactly the same as what the moaners are doing, but they have more kerrazy conspircay theories (for "kerrazy" read: unfounded, nonsensical and incoherent)

I bet Gabe is reading that right now chuckling to himself

 

[Rupertvdb]

hey now you've posted that he shall have put you on his global death list. or maybe not.

 

[SMT]

Wrong. They owe you NOTHING. Words are not actions. If I were to say I owe you a swift kick in the ass, it does NOT mean you are going to be getting one, no matter how much you deserve it!


You imply they were purposely jerking you around. Do you think they gave 9/30 as the release date with the purposeful intention to push it back just days before? I seriously doubt it. Even if they did, look at all the hype they've acheived for their game. The delay will probably boost their sales by plenty. If you still cling to the argument of "well they should've told us" NO THEY SHOULDN'T! They can do whatever they want! If they delay their game to create more hype/excitement then THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT. You are trying to take that right from them by implying you have a right which you DON'T! Have you read the book Atlas Shrugged? I doubt it, but if you did, you'd know the full meaning of the word I'm about to call you: a LOOTER.

Ayn Rand is an overbearing ideologue (not to mention a mediocre writer), and Objectivism is an impractical cult of personality. Sorry. I agreed with you right up to when you mentioned Atlas Shrugged.

 

[CyberSh33p]

citing books as your opinions doesn't make it any less of an opinion anyhow, and it just comes off as pretentious and holier-than-thou-because-I-read-a-book-too-bad-theres-so-many-of-them-oh-snap-pwned

I could cite all the hitchhiker's guide I want, it wouldn't make me more correct, and I would look like a nutjob.

 

[Dougy]

Here we go again.

I don't think valve "owes" me anything. I just trusted valve to tell the truth, and now i do a little less. that's all.

I concur.

And actualy Valve does owe some people who upgraded their computers for Hl2 and Preordered it and got the coupons with the ATI cards.

 

[Caminante]

I just read the "farewell rant" about Valve and Half Life 2 by Fragmaster, and I've noticed a lot of people here feel the same. I'm curious as to where you get the right to criticize a company that owes you nothing just because they "lied" about when their game was coming out? They are not making this game for the fans, or for "all the gaming enthusists out there," they are making the game to make money. Period. If that means lying, delaying, etc, then they have every right and more so to do that. They don't owe us, the "fans," anything. It's fine to be annoyed and disapointed and such, but to go so far as to say "I am not a fan of Valve anymore. I don't believe a damn thing they say and I'm sick of their bullshit."... Well, that's quite possible the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Again, they owe you NOTHING. You can't say "well i paid $50 when Halflife came out so they should give me the info i want." No. Giving you Halflife was the trade; you didn't automatically get the right to any future games or even information about anything. Hell, for that matter, they didn't HAVE to ever update HL, they did it at their own expense. You paid for HL, not the udates, they GAVE those to you. And yet here you are, whining that they "lied" to you about a release date on THEIR game (not YOURS). Come on.

As for Steam downloading caches and such, and about lag, THEY didn't install Steam on your comp. YOU DID. You accepted the end-user license agreement, and if you read it, you'd learn they said they could do things like that. Even if they DIDN'T have it in there, they could do it anyways because you VOLUNATRILY installed it in the first place!! If you don't like it, don't complain, UNINSTALL. Complaining is unnecessary.

I think they know damn well what they're doing and when they finish this game, they will be making a LOT of money, which again, is their primary objective. To hold them to some "higher" standard is wrong, they associate with fans because they think it will make them more money by guarenteeing customers, not because "they're such nice people."

People rant about how they "lied and deceived" you. OK. So they did. SO WHAT? THEY OWED YOU NOTHING! Oh, so you supported their game? You played it? You post crap at websites dedicated to it? So all that somehow entitles you to "the truth?" I think not. Valve is 100% in the right for what they're doing/what they've done, and to criticize them is not only childish and immature, it makes you a looter and a moocher, wanthing things you are not entitled to.

My goodness! Ofcourse Valve does not owes anything. What a preposterous argument, i may add. However, there is something called "appreciation" and "respect" - two terms that apparently you aren't too familiar with - for the people who buys your products or in other words support your work! I am not and most of us are implying that Valve should release an unfinish product, but only to get their facts straight, to stop being silly and more truthful to the comunity. That is about it.

 

[x84D80Yx]

just ignore him kids, he must be a relative of gabe or somthing. or he has been brainwashed.

nobody really said valve owed us anything, it's just we dont like them as much as we did in 2003 because they put out false information. get people to buy their partners hardware and then not even release, so now all the hardware the fans were recommended to buy is now outdated. they just need to get their company together.

we expected a game, and they didnt deliver. the concequence of that is just deprecation.

 

[Morithacus]

Incorrect S33P.

VALVE owe use more then you think, if it wasn't for us the fans the customers they would be nothing, and they will be the way they're going.

They need to sho the fan base alot more respect more then anyone else, because it is us who got them where they are today, and it will be us who will make them bigger.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Valve owe you nothing. You haven't paid for HL2. They've more than fulfilled any obligations they might have had with Half-Life.

 

[digsy]

Valve owe me 1 x Copy of Half Life 2 which I preordered September last year. Nuff said.

 

[Morithacus]

Valve owe you nothing. You haven't paid for HL2. They've more than fulfilled any obligations they might have had with Half-Life.

Incorrect.

The owe us everything, we made them who they are.

 

[Caminante]

Valve owe you nothing. You haven't paid for HL2. They've more than fulfilled any obligations they might have had with Half-Life.

Oh noes. Perhaps this forum should be shotdown until Valve finally decides to release the game in the summer of 2010.

 

[Seppo]

I don't think their making the game just to make money. It's kinda like musicians, they do music just for the fun of it. If other people like it too and buy his albums, it's only plus. Money is not the priority number 1.

 

[Tyrant]

they dont owe us anything, but that doesnt give them the right to lie or deliberatly mislead people.
All i wanted to hear was: "Look guys, we wont be finished by the time of the release date, we still have alot of work to do. And at this time we arent completely sure when it will be released."

We all know that games get delayed, we know that this paticular game will be well worth any delays that were incurred. Just show us that you respect us as much as we respect you and tell us the truth. I dont mind waiting till sept 30 2006 as long they let me know more than a week before the scheduled release.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Valve owe me 1 x Copy of Half Life 2 which I preordered September last year. Nuff said.

You haven't paid for it yet. Nuff said.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Incorrect.

The owe us everything, we made them who they are.

Right, so they have an obligation to make games for you? Get real.

 

[Varsity]

Right, so they have an obligation to make games for you? Get real.

They have an obligation to honesty. I'm not bothered by them missing a deadline at all, but as I said on page one them lying through their teeth about it isn't acceptable.

 

[mortiz]

VALVe don't see it from the perspective of "We don't owe our fans anything". People forget that VALVe want to keep their fans happy, firstly because it's personally more gratifying to read message boards like this and see "omg! have you seen this, HL2 is going to be amazing" as oppose to "omg! VALVe sucks, this should have been out by now!". That is why VALVe are keeping in so much contact with the fans. They delayed the game because they wanted to give the fans a better experience, that to me suggests that they do feel some obligation to the fans.

 

[Morithacus]

Right, so they have an obligation to make games for you? Get real.

Correct they owe us an obligation, if not for us then there is no them.

Idiot.

 

[Neutrino]

Correct they owe us an obligation, if not for us then there is no them.

Idiot.

They don't owe us crap. They make good games and you buy them. End of story. Just because you bought HL1 doesn't create any obligation between you and the company. They supplied it, you bought it, and that's where it ends. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice if they were a little more communicative, but to say they are obligated to us is rediculous.

(Btw, calling someone an idiot doesn't exactly do much to support your own arguments)

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Correct they owe us an obligation, if not for us then there is no them.

Idiot.

Nice try, but your argument has no merit whatsoever.

Why do they owe you an obligation? They made Half-Life, you (presumably) bought Half-Life. They supported it and patched it until it's effective end-of-life. They have no obligation whatsoever after that point. They could have closed the company down, or started their own fast-food chain. You were owed nothing. Until you have paid for HL2, Valve have no obligation to you at all.

Oh yes, and call me an idiot again, and you'll find yourself looking very foolish indeed.

 

[Morithacus]

They don't owe us crap. They make good games and you buy them. End of story. Just because you bought HL1 doesn't create any obligation between you and the company. They supplied it, you bought it, and that's where it ends. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice if they were a little more communicative, but to say they are obligated to us is rediculous.

(Btw, calling someone an idiot doesn't exactly do much to support your own arguments)

You must be increadibly dense not to see our point with view, with frail will power.

They still provide us a service and with any company if you don't treat your fan base the ones who bring in the mulla the ones who give them a job with the respect we deserve then they will be nothing.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

They still provide us a service and with any company if you don't treat your fan base the ones who bring in the mulla the ones who give them a job with the respect we deserve then they will be nothing.

That's not the same as an obligation.

 

[mortiz]

They don't owe us crap. They make good games and you buy them. End of story. Just because you bought HL1 doesn't create any obligation between you and the company. They supplied it, you bought it, and that's where it ends. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice if they were a little more communicative, but to say they are obligated to us is rediculous.

(Btw, calling someone an idiot doesn't exactly do much to support your own arguments)

So you're saying VALVe aren't communicative? You would be very hard pushed to find another developer that try's to remain as close to their community as VALVe are trying to do. They answer 95% of all questions we want answers to, the only ones they are usually reluctent on answering are those relating to spoilers or questions on the release date.

If VALVe saw it as black and white as you appear to do, that "They supplied it, you bought it, and that's where it ends." then I very much doubt we would have the level of communication with VALVe that we enjoy at the moment.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Neutrino's not saying that they're uncommunicative - just that they have no obligation to provide anything.

 

[Neutrino]

Neutrino's not saying that they're uncommunicative - just that they have no obligation to provide anything.

Thank you. Yes that was what I was trying to get across. The comment about communication was to concede the point that they didn't communicate well during time of the official release date. I don't even care, but I was saying that I understand why some people think they may have acted unprofessionally. I personally don't think so as practically everygame company delays games. It's inevitable.

 

[mortiz]

They may not actually have an obligation, but the point I was making is that they may feel they have an obligation.

 

[SMT]

That's not the same as an obligation.

Exactly... I think the number one problem in this thread, and in the community's mindset about this whole ordeal, is that few people understand the HUGE difference between dependence and obligation. Valve is not obligated to the community at all. No business is necessarily obligated to its customers.

Just look at McDonalds; they haven't had any major menu changes or innovations since Super Size, which was invented over a decade ago (and, incidentally, they are getting rid of it this year). They aren't obligated to, because people will always go there for a quick bite to eat, no matter what. It's fast, it's somewhat palatable, it's firmly rooted in culture, and it's ubiquitous.

That said, if Valve, or any business organization, intends to flourish in a competitive market (and video gaming is one of the most competitive markets), they must realize their dependence on the community for income. They're long past the stage where they can draw in any venture capital, so their income must draw chiefly from profits from sold products. The product in question is Half-Life 2.

So, while Valve is not obligated to make Half-Life 2, if they plan on surviving the year they must make it, and make it good. Does that make sense?

 

[Neutrino]

They may not actually have an obligation, but the point I was making is that they may feel they have an obligation.

Heh, that's not what you were saying before. But glad you could see our point.

However, what I think you meant to write was, "the point I was making is that I may feel they have an obligation.

 

[mortiz]

Definition of obligation :

The act of binding oneself by a social, legal, or moral tie.

A social, legal, or moral requirement, such as a duty, contract, or promise that compels one to follow or avoid a particular course of action.
A course of action imposed by society, law, or conscience by which one is bound or restricted.
The constraining power of a promise, contract, law, or sense of duty.

Wouldn't you say VALVe at least feels they owe the community a moral obligation, a 'sense of duty' ? if not a legal obligation.

 

[mortiz]

I see your point, but like I mentioned above, VALVe may feel some sort of obligation, if not legally.

 

[Neutrino]

Definition of obligation :

The act of binding oneself by a social, legal, or moral tie.


Wouldn't you say VALVe at least feels they owe the community a moral obligation, a 'sense of duty' ? if not a legal obligation.

Actually no. If I was in their shoes I wouldn't feel any sense of obligation to us. I don't see how they possibly owe us anything or should even feel like they owe us anything. No one has paid for HL2 yet. They are making the game of their own free will. If they decided to scrap it tomorrow that's their choice.

About the only argument I might be able to buy into is that they owe it to the mods to atleast release the game at some point. Not legally of course, but in moral sense I might be able to see this since a lot of mods have put a lot of effort into it.

But do I think they should feel an obligation toward the casual gamer? No.

 

[mortiz]

VALVe may feel some obligation because, after all, they did promise the community a game.

The constraining power of a promise, contract, law, or sense of duty.

It may not be legally binding, but it was a promise.
.

 

[Neutrino]

It's possible that they may feel that way. I don't see how it really matters though. In the end they are going to do whatever they want.

 

[CptTrips]

citing books as your opinions doesn't make it any less of an opinion anyhow, and it just comes off as pretentious and holier-than-thou-because-I-read-a-book-too-bad-theres-so-many-of-them-oh-snap-pwned

I could cite all the hitchhiker's guide I want, it wouldn't make me more correct, and I would look like a nutjob.

I am not "citing books as my opinions." I was using a term from a book that 99% of people haven't read, and in order to make myself clearer, cited the book it's from.

And actualy Valve does owe some people who upgraded their computers for Hl2 and Preordered it and got the coupons with the ATI cards.

There is no date on those coupons. They could release HL2 in 2095 and be perfectly legal about it.

However, there is something called "appreciation" and "respect" - two terms that apparently you aren't too familiar with - for the people who buys your products or in other words support your work!

"Appreciation and respect" doesn't get you very far in the video game world. Obviously, you imply that valve as shown neither. Guess what? People are still gonna buy their game. The game is gonna be a giant hit seller. As for appreciation and respect? They are speedbumps on the road to riches. Valve doesn't care if the "community" is happy, they care about SELLING THE GAME. Which is going to happen en masse when it does get released; whether or not they were "nice" about it is irrelevant.

we expected a game, and they didnt deliver. the concequence of that is just deprecation.

No, the consequence is probably gonna be higher sales for Valve. All the hype about this "unreleased game" has undoubtedly caused more people to become interested: therefore, more people will buy it when it comes out.

they dont owe us anything, but that doesnt give them the right to lie or deliberatly mislead people.
All i wanted to hear was: "Look guys, we wont be finished by the time of the release date, we still have alot of work to do. And at this time we arent completely sure when it will be released."

By what RIGHT do you claim they should give you this information?!?! They are under no obligation to tell you ANYTHING! I think they were nice enough to post screenshots, e3 movies, etc.... They give an inch, you take a mile. What if they released nothing? When it suddenly was released out of no where, would you be complaining: "Why didn't they tell us they were making this game? It's not fair! I had the right to know!" NO. YOU DIDNT.

 

[Corupter]

I just read the "farewell rant" about Valve and Half Life 2 by Fragmaster, and I've noticed a lot of people here feel the same. I'm curious as to where you get the right to criticize a company that owes you nothing just because they "lied" about when their game was coming out? They are not making this game for the fans, or for "all the gaming enthusists out there," they are making the game to make money. Period. If that means lying, delaying, etc, then they have every right and more so to do that. They don't owe us, the "fans," anything. It's fine to be annoyed and disapointed and such, but to go so far as to say "I am not a fan of Valve anymore. I don't believe a damn thing they say and I'm sick of their bullshit."... Well, that's quite possible the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Again, they owe you NOTHING. You can't say "well i paid $50 when Halflife came out so they should give me the info i want." No. Giving you Halflife was the trade; you didn't automatically get the right to any future games or even information about anything. Hell, for that matter, they didn't HAVE to ever update HL, they did it at their own expense. You paid for HL, not the udates, they GAVE those to you. And yet here you are, whining that they "lied" to you about a release date on THEIR game (not YOURS). Come on.

As for Steam downloading caches and such, and about lag, THEY didn't install Steam on your comp. YOU DID. You accepted the end-user license agreement, and if you read it, you'd learn they said they could do things like that. Even if they DIDN'T have it in there, they could do it anyways because you VOLUNATRILY installed it in the first place!! If you don't like it, don't complain, UNINSTALL. Complaining is unnecessary.

I think they know damn well what they're doing and when they finish this game, they will be making a LOT of money, which again, is their primary objective. To hold them to some "higher" standard is wrong, they associate with fans because they think it will make them more money by guarenteeing customers, not because "they're such nice people."

People rant about how they "lied and deceived" you. OK. So they did. SO WHAT? THEY OWED YOU NOTHING! Oh, so you supported their game? You played it? You post crap at websites dedicated to it? So all that somehow entitles you to "the truth?" I think not. Valve is 100% in the right for what they're doing/what they've done, and to criticize them is not only childish and immature, it makes you a looter and a moocher, wanthing things you are not entitled to.

lets stick a stamp on this thread and all agree that the thread starter is a moron :thumbs:

 

[Mr-Fusion]

You're basically asking people not to feel annoyed at the game being delayed and the general behaviour of Valve. It is a mission of folly. People will be annoyed, people will express that annoyance. You cannot hinder emotion no matter how many "Valve owes you nothing, get on your knees and perform oral love to them" posts are made.

5 months of hype focused towards one date. A sequel to the greatest game of all time. Hundreds, maybe even thousands of people preparing (upgrade-wise) for that point in time. Anything other than a release was going to result in a torrent of rage.

 

[Corupter]

You're basically asking people not to feel annoyed at the game being delayed and the general behaviour of Valve. It is a mission of folly. People will be annoyed, people will express that annoyance. You cannot hinder emotion no matter how many "Valve owes you nothing, get on your knees and perform oral love to them" posts are made.

5 months of hype focused towards one date. A sequel to the greatest game of all time. Hundreds, maybe even thousands of people preparing (upgrade-wise) for that point in time. Anything other than a release was going to result in a torrent of rage.

Congratulations you've put it better than i ever could

 

[Champ]

I just read the "farewell rant" about Valve and Half Life 2 by Fragmaster, and I've noticed a lot of people here feel the same. I'm curious as to where you get the right to criticize a company that owes you nothing just because they "lied" about when their game was coming out? They are not making this game for the fans, or for "all the gaming enthusists out there," they are making the game to make money. Period. If that means lying, delaying, etc, then they have every right and more so to do that. They don't owe us, the "fans," anything. It's fine to be annoyed and disapointed and such, but to go so far as to say "I am not a fan of Valve anymore. I don't believe a damn thing they say and I'm sick of their bullshit."... Well, that's quite possible the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Again, they owe you NOTHING. You can't say "well i paid $50 when Halflife came out so they should give me the info i want." No. Giving you Halflife was the trade; you didn't automatically get the right to any future games or even information about anything. Hell, for that matter, they didn't HAVE to ever update HL, they did it at their own expense. You paid for HL, not the udates, they GAVE those to you. And yet here you are, whining that they "lied" to you about a release date on THEIR game (not YOURS). Come on.

As for Steam downloading caches and such, and about lag, THEY didn't install Steam on your comp. YOU DID. You accepted the end-user license agreement, and if you read it, you'd learn they said they could do things like that. Even if they DIDN'T have it in there, they could do it anyways because you VOLUNATRILY installed it in the first place!! If you don't like it, don't complain, UNINSTALL. Complaining is unnecessary.

I think they know damn well what they're doing and when they finish this game, they will be making a LOT of money, which again, is their primary objective. To hold them to some "higher" standard is wrong, they associate with fans because they think it will make them more money by guarenteeing customers, not because "they're such nice people."

People rant about how they "lied and deceived" you. OK. So they did. SO WHAT? THEY OWED YOU NOTHING! Oh, so you supported their game? You played it? You post crap at websites dedicated to it? So all that somehow entitles you to "the truth?" I think not. Valve is 100% in the right for what they're doing/what they've done, and to criticize them is not only childish and immature, it makes you a looter and a moocher, wanthing things you are not entitled to.

You do have some points, but your post is almost entirely made out of bullshit.

Sure, Valve doesn't owe is anything, but we certainly do NOT owe Valve anything either. We are in our right to say that Valve act unprofessionally, because that's indeed what they're doing. I honestly don't care a flying **** on the legal situation here, so you can pack that stuff up and move it somewhere else.

All I know is that Valve repeatedly misses their dates, and does nothing WHATSOEVER to inform us about it. When they do that over and over again, I begin to lose respect for them. Simple as that. Respect is the keyword, although I'm quite sure I'll regain that respect when they finally deliver that game.... WHat's the name?... Yeah, Half-Life 2.

 

[Neutrino]

All I know is that Valve repeatedly misses their dates....

Repeatedly?