Valve owes you NOTHING

[CptTrips]

lets stick a stamp on this thread and all agree that the thread starter is a moron :thumbs:

awesome argument

You're basically asking people not to feel annoyed at the game being delayed and the general behaviour of Valve. It is a mission of folly. People will be annoyed, people will express that annoyance. You cannot hinder emotion no matter how many "Valve owes you nothing, get on your knees and perform oral love to them" posts are made.

5 months of hype focused towards one date. A sequel to the greatest game of all time. Hundreds, maybe even thousands of people preparing (upgrade-wise) for that point in time. Anything other than a release was going to result in a torrent of rage.

Yes, rage. Unprecedented, illogical, and unnecessary rage. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Sure, Valve doesn't owe is anything, but we certainly do NOT owe Valve anything either.

Not once have I stated or implied that.

We are in our right to say that Valve act unprofessionally, because that's indeed what they're doing.

You can say whatever you want. That doesn't make it true. Since you do not make video games, you wouldn't know the difference between "professional" and "unprofessional." You are looking at the situation from one perspective; that of a gamer wanting a game. From the opposite end of the spectrum (the developer) things look a LOT different. Their primary concern isn't "let's release a lot of information about the game!" it's "let's get this done the WAY WE WANT IT DONE before we release it."

All I know is that Valve repeatedly misses their dates, and does nothing WHATSOEVER to inform us about it.

They don't have to inform you about it. You are claiming a right you have no right to.

When they do that over and over again, I begin to lose respect for them.

Do you think Valve cares? You're still gonna buy their game. That's all that matters to them.

Respect is the keyword, although I'm quite sure I'll regain that respect when they finally deliver that game.... WHat's the name?... Yeah, Half-Life 2.

LOL! If you didn't "respect" them, you wouldn't be buying their game when it came out. Losing respect? Yeah right, if anything you've gained respect for them. That's why you still worship the unfinished game and post endings to posts like you just did. Hilarious!

 

[ferd]

there is no need to get all worked up

everyone has some good points here

 

[clarky003]

blah blah blah blah,, its probably gonna come out at the exact time ATI's new card is coming out, which is like.,.. what? start of June?... theres no need for these threads anymore, Valve are very close to giving us what we want

 

[jet jaguar]

lets stick a stamp on this thread and all agree that the thread starter is a moron :thumbs:

Agreed. Every bit a troll as the ones he's criticizing.

 

[CptTrips]

Agreed. Every bit a troll as the ones he's criticizing.

Troll? State your logic please.

 

[Yakuza]

I just read the "farewell rant" about Valve and Half Life 2 by Fragmaster, and I've noticed a lot of people here feel the same. I'm curious as to where you get the right to criticize a company that owes you nothing just because they "lied" about when their game was coming out? They are not making this game for the fans, or for "all the gaming enthusists out there," they are making the game to make money. Period. If that means lying, delaying, etc, then they have every right and more so to do that. They don't owe us, the "fans," anything. It's fine to be annoyed and disapointed and such, but to go so far as to say "I am not a fan of Valve anymore. I don't believe a damn thing they say and I'm sick of their bullshit."... Well, that's quite possible the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Again, they owe you NOTHING. You can't say "well i paid $50 when Halflife came out so they should give me the info i want." No. Giving you Halflife was the trade; you didn't automatically get the right to any future games or even information about anything. Hell, for that matter, they didn't HAVE to ever update HL, they did it at their own expense. You paid for HL, not the udates, they GAVE those to you. And yet here you are, whining that they "lied" to you about a release date on THEIR game (not YOURS). Come on.

As for Steam downloading caches and such, and about lag, THEY didn't install Steam on your comp. YOU DID. You accepted the end-user license agreement, and if you read it, you'd learn they said they could do things like that. Even if they DIDN'T have it in there, they could do it anyways because you VOLUNATRILY installed it in the first place!! If you don't like it, don't complain, UNINSTALL. Complaining is unnecessary.

I think they know damn well what they're doing and when they finish this game, they will be making a LOT of money, which again, is their primary objective. To hold them to some "higher" standard is wrong, they associate with fans because they think it will make them more money by guarenteeing customers, not because "they're such nice people."

People rant about how they "lied and deceived" you. OK. So they did. SO WHAT? THEY OWED YOU NOTHING! Oh, so you supported their game? You played it? You post crap at websites dedicated to it? So all that somehow entitles you to "the truth?" I think not. Valve is 100% in the right for what they're doing/what they've done, and to criticize them is not only childish and immature, it makes you a looter and a moocher, wanthing things you are not entitled to.

Pretty big assumption on your part to say they are doing it all for the money. I am sure there are still guys out there who make games because they love to.

And lets say that they are all about the money. Do you think pissing off your clients is a wise buisness move.

Its true that maybe they dont "owe" us anything...I mean I havent laid down my 50 non-refundable dollars yet.

See valve knows how strong the hl community is and the only reason hl1 was a big hit was because of the community. With out us there is no Valve. See the problem is that somtimes people loose focus of this especialy when money gets involved.

I do think Valve has learned somthing form the last several months. And that is that the HL community takes what Valves says seriously and we are not taken to kindly to lies and these vague comments with no backbone...

Theres a saying..."Dont bite the hand that feeds you". If companies do things like this they will soon find that us gamers wont support them.

so I guess it does kind of come back to money..our money. ;(

 

[Yakuza]

Neutrino's not saying that they're uncommunicative - just that they have no obligation to provide anything.

If they want my 50 non refundable dollars they sure as hell do have an obligation.

That is to provide a playable game that meets the expectations and gameplay that they themselvs set.

If they dont than there wont be any more valve games on my desk.

There obligation is two fold.

Provide us with a kick ass game
and to Stay in buisness..

And the only way to fullfill the later is by fullfilling the obligation of the former.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

That's not an obligation. They don't have to provide you with anything. If they chose to, they could take a half-eaten hamburger and stick it in a box and call it Half-Life 2. No-one would buy it (I hope), but they don't have a duty to provide you with what you want.

 

[Ahnteis]

They owe us nothing -- correct.
They are doing this only for $$ -- incorrect.
It would be a good idea for them to give us true, pertinent, and timely information -- correct.

 

[Yakuza]

That's not an obligation. They don't have to provide you with anything. If they chose to, they could take a half-eaten hamburger and stick it in a box and call it Half-Life 2. No-one would buy it (I hope), but they don't have a duty to provide you with what you want.

I see what your saying. The dont have a legal binding obligation to use. I do think that if they sent us a half eaten burger that a false advertising lawsuit could be filed, well at least by me anyways.

I dont think they have an obligation to provide me with the things I want, but I do think they have a moral and honorable obligation to provide us with the things "THEY" have promised.

If they dont, fine...there is allways D3 and other communities out there that arn't getting butt raped with a fist full of speculatory statments and malicious lies...


That following statment is only IF valve screws us over when HL2 does or does not come out.

 

[Dougy]

Valve owe me 1 x Copy of Half Life 2 which I preordered September last year. Nuff said.

my point exactly.

as a side note this is why i never preorder games.

Repeatedly?

Hl
TFT2
CS:Cz
Hl2
SDK

yes. repeatedly.

 

[MatTriX]

my point exactly.

as a side note this is why i never preorder games.



Hl
TFT2
CS:Cz
Hl2
SDK

yes. repeatedly.

THANK YOU digsy HERE HERE !
I paid ALOT of money to play that game and now I won't be able to thanks to the delay (I'm leaving civilian life for a long time and won't have time for much else). had I known there was a delay I wouldn't have bought it yet. I bought a nice new video card expecting I could play a nice new game and now not only is it not here I can't afford to buy anything to take it's place.

 

[PvtRyan]

Valve owe me 1 x Copy of Half Life 2 which I preordered September last year. Nuff said.

You gave the store the 50 bucks to reserve a copy of Half-Life 2 when it comes out. Valve hasn't seen a cent of your money. So again: they don't owe you shit.

 

[Yakuza]

You gave the store the 50 bucks to reserve a copy of Half-Life 2 when it comes out. Valve hasn't seen a cent of your money. So again: they don't owe you shit.

Actualy I bet they do have some kind of legal obligation with the ATI company. Allthough I dont know the terms of their agreement, but it could mean a hefty penalty if valves doesn't meet their end of the bargin.

 

[Asus]

I swear when I read the title that this was another Old Thread...
HA, boy was I wrong.

My points:
1. Valve makes games to make money at something they enjoy doing.
2. Valve put everything into HL2 since everyone supported HL. This is where many ppl get it wrong. Since you supported HL they decided to also do something nice for you, like you did for them. They don't owe you anything. It wasn't a deal.
3. Valve's marketing continued to say Sept. 30th until the delay desision was made final. They didn't want to say HL2 might be delayed when it really wasn't final. Every company's marketing department is the same btw. Valve is no different.
4. Valve gives you info because it wants to drive continuing intrest in the game prior to release. When they delayed the game, they stopped giving out info because there would be nothing left to know if they continued. They also wanted to keep secrets. Everyone who wants it will still buy HL2. There is enough self started Hype (too much) that alone will carry interrest through the dry spell.
5. Prepays are just that. You 'pay', they deliver later. Most places don't charge you yet but you have dedicated that money to pay for the game.
6. Anything you buy is fully your responsiblity. Buy HL2? great. Buy a new computer/components? Great...your choice again.
7. ATI's HL2 vouchers will be honored. HL2 comes out and you shall recieve.
8. The only time anyone owes you anything is when there is a set deal and they don't deliver.
The term 'owes' goes along with trade or deal. If there is no trade or deal then someone...(you) assumed. Glad you could jump off the cliff before the bridge was built. Go ahead and blame others even though there was a sign saying 'Bridge out ahead'.
Why don't you wait til it's built and then you can enjoy the ride across? I think that would be a lot better.

Someone mentioned it earlier. The words Respect and Responsibility are being lost. I guess part of it is being immature. Oh well. Live with it and learn how the world works kids.

 

[vicefredav444]

Stop whining people!!!! I thanked Valve and still thank them for the years of hard work they put into this game and the technology they created. Whether it’s to make money or to make a great game, the end result is going to be brand new technology that could be the start of something. They could be enjoying all the money they made from the 11million Half-Life units they sold, driving Lamborghinis and shit. Try to zoom out and look at the big picture, that’s all. Looking at the production cost of Half-Life to the profit they made, Half-Life might be the winner coz Half-Life 2 is now costing them 50+ million and so many years of hardwork. I know it sounds really corny but regardless of anything we should be grateful that a company is willing to invest so much for us. They could easily just release it whenever and make tons of money in trade but it’s important to them that what they release is the best. They don’t owe us the best but they want to give us the best.

Valve is unlike any other company, the way they communicate with the community, these are really simple people. I personally think it’s more than just money for them. Yes, money is on their mind but I think they wanted to take advantage of the money to sit down and make something they always wanted to make, this new technology that would allow for games like Half-Life 2 and the rest of the mods. I would be thankful if any company decided to do what Valve is doing. Normally u just have games being produced for 5 to 10 million, Valve is giving everything they have for this technology so it can benefit the mod developers and in the end the gamers. As if it doesn’t already suck for them that they have to work and work, on top of that you wanna whine and complain. Its so much easier to buy things than to build things yourself from scratch. This is 50 million dollars worth of code mod developers can go crazy with. The least we can do is let them work and be grateful, ok now I’m done haha

 

[CrazyHarij]

You're now on probation CrazyHarij--first the stunt in the Haiku thread, and now spam. Watch yourself. --Pendragon.

 

[mjrhzrd]

Me thinks that CPT Trips and PVT Ryan are both V A L V E employees trying to shame us all into thinking that we deserve no R E S P E C T from Valve.

Valve's "For Gamers by Gamers" is now "$$$" only
Gabe and his "Our Customer's will be PISSED" about the ATI/NVidia wars. Well, many of us are pissed, having bought new hardware at Gabe's urging particularly High end expensive ATI Radeon products.

Many of US believe from putting all the statements from Valve regarding continuing development to this date indicate that the Game was N O T finished.

I bought into the hype and bought hardware that is now $80 cheaper unnecessarily and you cannot change that.
Valve says that it pursues the respect of the gaming community. This thumb upside the nose bit has been a real turn off. I even gave away my HL2 coupon that I got for installing someone's Radeon for them. I only stop in once in a while to get a giggle at the continuing bullshit going on.

Delayed, no problem, just appologize and not bullshit anyone anymore. But you won't see me or my Gaming group buying HL2.

I'm just curious to see what is going on with the hundreds of MB that Steam is taking up on my hard drive. I installed Steam for my CS but an curious as the the potential for behind the scenes P2P or propagation of Viruses or Worms that we are seeing on Kazaa or Imesh, etc. Imagine what damage an army of Steam-based Zombie PCs could do on the internet

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Well, many of us are pissed, having bought new hardware at Gabe's urging particularly High end expensive ATI Radeon products.

No-one was "urged" to buy anything.

I bought into the hype and bought hardware that is now $80 cheaper unnecessarily

Your choice - no-one held a gun to your head.

Valve did not make you upgrade - YOU did

ou won't see me or my Gaming group buying HL2.

I think you'll find that that's your loss, and not Valve's.

I installed Steam for my CS but an curious as the the potential for behind the scenes P2P or propagation of Viruses or Worms that we are seeing on Kazaa or Imesh, etc. Imagine what damage an army of Steam-based Zombie PCs could do on the internet

Yeah, because Valve are going to use it do that. End-users can't use Steam to transfer files, so no malicious cretins can spread things through it.

 

[mjrhzrd]

No Disrespect,
But your In Denial.

I guess your just not one of those who upgraded after Gabes rant followed closely by the "in Stores for Holidays 2003"? or do I need to go dig up reference material stating so

 

[The Mullinator]

Yes of course now that people have bought their new high-end cards they have proven useless because they can't run with any game other than HL2.

It was your choice to buy the graphics card at full price, and I hope you actually knew that all graphics cards start off with inflated prices and then plummet as new stuff comes out.

 

[mortiz]

I won't be able to upgrade till Christmas 2004 anyway, by which time I will (hopefully) have HL-2 on my desk.

In the mean time i'll probably just push my hardware to the absolute limits.

 

[mjrhzrd]

Yes of course now that people have bought their new high-end cards they have proven useless because they can't run with any game other than HL2.

It was your choice to buy the graphics card at full price, and I hope you actually knew that all graphics cards start off with inflated prices and then plummet as new stuff comes out.

Nope would probably have bought it around the time of UT2004 Demo coming out when it was still cheaper. If your gonna tell me that Gabe Newel was not hawking ATI then go back and read some web pages in in AUG-OCT time frame.

 

[Corupter]

Yes of course now that people have bought their new high-end cards they have proven useless because they can't run with any game other than HL2.

It was your choice to buy the graphics card at full price, and I hope you actually knew that all graphics cards start off with inflated prices and then plummet as new stuff comes out.

Meh my 9800XT Classic will do fine for any game thanks very much.

P.S it wasnt at full price (Thank God for eBay) <(Not advertising GRR)

 

[The Mullinator]

Nope would probably have bought it around the time of UT2004 Demo coming out when it was still cheaper. If your gonna tell me that Gabe Newel was not hawking ATI then go back and read some web pages in in AUG-OCT time frame.

I never said anything about how Gabe was promoting ATI. I was here then and I saw that whole thing, but thing is that it IS your fault if you bought the card at the time.

I could have bought a Radeon 9800 before Sept 30 but I didn't, I decided to take a risk and wait for a little while before getting a new card, turns out it was a smart decision.

When you go to buy a new graphics card you are taking a risk, do you risk paying full price for the newest of cards hoping that the games that are out or comming out soon will be able to take full advantage of it? Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Corupter]

I could have bought a Radeon 9800 before Sept 30 but I didn't, I decided to take a risk and wait for a little while before getting a new card, turns out it was a smart decision.

When you go to buy a new graphics card you are taking a risk, do you risk paying full price for the newest of cards hoping that the games that are out or comming out soon will be able to take full advantage of it? Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't.

yeh your right i guess i wish i had of waited a bit longer, not because i was worried about the price just because i could have by the time i needed a beefy card, when HL2 comes out have bought a much better one for the price i bought mine.

Depressing really. ;(

 

[The Mullinator]

You can blame yourself but thing is that it is almost always a risk no matter what you do. Chances are usually 50-50 that the risk you take will pay off, so no one should really beat themselves up for whatever they may have done.

 

[Corupter]

You can blame yourself but thing is that it is almost always a risk no matter what you do. Chances are usually 50-50 that the risk you take will pay off, so no one should really beat themselves up for whatever they may have done.

Yeh i deffinately agree with that.. crikey i could do with some sleep.
:bonce: <--- starting to look like him

 

[mjrhzrd]

Ya still gotta wonder why some people go to extremes in running damage control for Valve. Are you guys afraid that Valve will delay the game further if they feel insulted?

 

[The Mullinator]

Ya still gotta wonder why some people go to extremes in running damage control for Valve. Are you guys afraid that Valve will delay the game further if they feel insulted?

Were nice people and if we see someone needs a defence and we believe they deserve it then we will provide it for them. I believe people have been wrongfully painting Valve as the ultimate "bad guy" company in the gaming industry right now. So I feel they should be defended.

Besides I can ask other people the same kind of question: Since it really doesn't matter whether you insult them or not (the game won't be released earlier if you complain) then why insult them at all?

 

[CptTrips]

And lets say that they are all about the money. Do you think pissing off your clients is a wise buisness move.

You sound pretty pissed off. And guess what? You're still gonna buy HL2. You just proved your own argument wrong. :thumbs:

 

[CptTrips]

If companies do things like this they will soon find that us gamers wont support them.

Do you have the backbone not to buy HL2 just because you "don't support valve?" PFFT! Yeah right!

 

[mjrhzrd]

Didn't have to buy it, I had the coupon in my hands and gave it away a couple weeks ago to my stepson. It was gathering dust and reminded me of the "VaporWare" disks of the early 90s Are you guys old enough to have encountered "VaporWare"?
Speaking of Vaporware ever hear of Duke Nukem Forever and when its done?
Wow talk about wasting a fanbase that would have snapped that up off the shelves. Biggest Marketing Mistake ever in gaming. Being closely followed by Valve. Even the Mods are drifting off. UnReal 2004 is my new game and I'm migrating my group a few at a time. Its gonna be "The Game" at my next LAN party.

As for being pissed, not really, insulted, yes. Have you actually read and retained all the info from Valve "a work in progress" it seems. Been jerked around, you bet. And so were you if you admit it or not. HL2 was never near ready on 9/30/03. Fragman was right on that one.
I expected more from Valve that is all, it is not the company that it used to be.

 

[Yakuza]

Do you have the backbone not to buy HL2 just because you "don't support valve?" PFFT! Yeah right!

Yes, because I am not a slave to the system. I have the ability to make my own decisions and to stick with them. I mean its is just a game......

 

[Yakuza]

You sound pretty pissed off. And guess what? You're still gonna buy HL2. You just proved your own argument wrong. :thumbs:

You have a talent for coughing up assumptions. I am not pissed at all, I saw this whole thing coming from a mile away. I was simply regurgitating the more and more negative vibes regarding valve and what is going on with what has been said about release dates and other subjects.

I still plan to buy HL2 at this point for two reasons.

1) coming form a work environment were many people are working on a project, I know how things can get confusing and people can be left out on information.

2) They haven’t really done to much to piss me off yet. If they do I wont buy, my choice. But then again I am a REALY hard person to piss off.
:E

 

[Styloid]

I've always been supporters of 3drealms and Valve because they are peope who care about their game. You could say that they might care about their game more than their fans but to me being good to your fans means giving them a game that is as good as possible and not cheaping out on it (not to mention HL still has a huge community thanks to Valve). I've always had trouble putting game companies in the same position as manufacturers. I don't think people are just supposed to consume games endlessly and ignore games that do not come out at their pleasure. I may be naive to think that games are becoming an art and that art should not have deadlines or limits put on it but that is the way I see it. They are not cranking out the same goods based on set blueprints. There is a creative process, thinking, working, reworking,etc. Things will go wrong or ideas will shift and it is not easy to handle. I think we should just give any of these developers support and look past the mistakes they have made (even if it did inconvenience you).
I guess what I'm saying is are you a consumer or are you an enthusiast?

 

[digsy]

You haven't paid for it yet. Nuff said.

Hmm thats funny, why did 26.99 get charged to Mr Credit card then?

 

[PvtRyan]

Hmm thats funny, why did 26.99 get charged to Mr Credit card then?

Because you paid the store in advance to hold back a copy which you can pick up at the release day?
Valve hasn't seen a penny of your 26.99

 

[Synthaxx R-or]

Whoa, it lives again.
Please let this thread die in piece, like it should.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Hmm thats funny, why did 26.99 get charged to Mr Credit card then?

What's even funnier is that this thread is nearly a month old, and headed for Locksville.