Valve Vs. Id Software?

[Top Secret]

iD have never missed a release date because they've never set one 'When it's done'.

Errr, I thought they said Doom 3 was going to be out in 2002.

As for the John Carmack vs. Gabe Newell thing. I don't know Gabe where-as I kind of know about John Carmack. He used to be some poor kid who joined a group of guys at a small programing company and making games in their spare time. They broke off, and formed id. You know where they got the computers for their first games? They used to take them out of the building, and put them in the trunk of their cars at night, then they would drive to their rented house on the river and program games. It was in that company that Carmack was the first person EVER to port Mario to the PC. (Actually, I think it was a Mac) He optomized it so it would work, since no one else could do it at the time.

I'm going to pick John Carmack of Id, simply because I know more about him.

 

[cadaver]

Id just doesn't have any design credentials to speak of - all their eggs are in the technology basket. Carmack doesn't even play games anymore and he seems to think anything outside a simple arcade paradigm is a false gimmick...

well carmack has very little to do with the actual game content of doom3, he have payed people who love gaming to do that part :farmer:

 

[thenerdguy]

HE only built the game engine.

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Errr, I thought they said Doom 3 was going to be out in 2002.

2002? Lol wtf. It was only unveiled at E3 2002.

 

[Maskirovka]

personally, i think all of id's games are merely "fun for a while" games. sure, the technology behind the games has always been very good...and many other games have licensed the quake engines.

half-life was a 2348320x better game than the dooms, quakes, or RTCW...incredibly better story and much more fun gameplay, imo. but as far as multiplayer goes, HL and the iD games are pretty much on the same level (except maybe RTCW, which uses a gametype made popular by CS and team fortress (original for quake) )

the built-in deathmatch and stuff for HL and id games are both fun, but they get tiring after a while...it's the mods that are the most exciting and fun to play...and i think HL2 will blow doom3 away in that regard...especially since most of valve's success is owed to modding (CS, DOD, NS). and also realizing the fact that doom3's multiplayer will be pretty lame (4 person max...carmack said he expects 8-person mods :\\\ )

doom3 will be a "ok that was fun" game with a touch of "i hope someone makes a cool game with this great engine"...and hl2 will be another mod-happy funtime extravaganza of 5-year game fun playness just like hl1

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

HL did not have a good story line.

It was a generic B-movie esque storyline.

It was however executed very well.

 

[Maskirovka]

HL did not have a good story line.

It was a generic B-movie esque storyline.

It was however executed very well.

that's your opinion, fine...but it's automatically better than any of the doom/quake storylines...because those weren't even B-movie...those were "what if you had to kill 239048239482738 things" storylines that my 10 year old brother could've come up with....

and sorry, but "get the keycard to advance" doesnt' make for a good game...ever. it was fine for doom, and maybe until Q2...but that's why QIII was a botmatch/multiplayer only thing...id couldn't come up with good gameplay.

even RTCW was the same deal...nothing really innovative...but the fighting scenarios were mostly well thought out...

can you play through half-life and not remember the first time you got owned by the assassins? or the first time you encountered grunts and they threw nades to flush you out of your cover? or crawling through a vent and having a machine gun shoot you out of there? sorry but none of id's games have ever had a memorable moment for me...except maybe the final doom2 boss...or fighting those jumping demon things in quake 1.

 

[harrys]

id software because :

id Track Record : Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM , DOOMII , Quake, QuakeII , Quake3, RTCW, RTCW-ET

Valve Track Record : Half-Life

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Heh, yeah ID have done more that valve but Valve have done more than just HL....

I can't be arsed to list a few... so whatever!

 

[Maskirovka]

like i said...who cares about the engine...i want a fun, memorable game...id has never provided that...except with multiplayer....on occasion.

 

[Warbie]

How dare you say RTCW was not innovative!

It still remains the best teambased shooter about - requiring far more tactics, skill and practise than any other game (imo of course), CS/BF/U2 do not compare. While a mess on publics, it's the ultimate clan game - introducing clearly defined and balanced classes (a rare thing), needles to pick up fallen team mates (possibly the coolest thing to ever hit online gaming - and soon to be copied by everyone [U2 anyone?]), being able to dish out med/ammo packs, bino strikes, artillery strikes - all of which add greatly to the gameplay.

After 2 years of great tournies and cups RTCW is on it's last legs. ET is ok, but will never be a replacement. ET = RTCW with training wheels and very poor maps :/

Take it back! ....... or i'll moan and moan till this thread is ruined.

 

[Anthraxxx]

My vote goes to Valve.

Id is a close second though!! :thumbs:

 

[Maskirovka]

warbie, if you read my post more carefully, you'd have realized that was referring mostly to the single player aspects of these games...like in my 2nd post

id has never provided that...except with multiplayer....on occasion.

so i'm not attacking your precious RTCW multiplayer...just id's ability to produce anything other than engines and tweaked gameplay of mod gametypes (RTCW multi is just a tweak of other games that came before it). id just isn't very original when it comes to gameplay....i guess the only exception is RTCW...and that's not much of a track record...even though you guys seem to love pointing out id's vast track record of games...

i just disagree with your opinion what that record says about the company.

 

[Warbie]

I was just skimming through the posts, and then you shoot me down by being reasonable. Bloody logic - where's the fun in that ?

To get back on topic, i'd have to go with Valve - although i'm quite concerned about HL2s single player element.

What stood out in HL (for me anyway) was the immersion. Your goal was so simple, just try to survive and escape ......... and this is where it's strength lies (a strengh that Doom also shares). Everyone can relate to that. The story, while adequate (in an X-files kinda way) really wasn't that important.

Most of the game you were on your own and left to your own devices, you against the world. Yet, unlike in most games, it was believable (well, kinda ) The opening sequence set the secene so convincingly, you were just a scientist going to work - not a uber hard marine or cyborg etc etc. For the first time I felt an affinity with the game character.

The addons, imo, were very poor in comparison. Adding more AI controlled allies reduced the sense of solitude and tension. No loner were you an average joe, relying on the most basic of instincts, you were a soldier/policeman. The immersion now relied on the previous game and the story - and as a result didn't really stand out from the crowd.

HL2 could easily continue this trend ......... technically fantastic, great gameplay, pretty good story, but not containing the element that made HL so great. However, HL2 is still trying to offer someting new and innovative - and for that reason it's hard to go with ID on this one.

 

[Maskirovka]

yep...seems like doom3 will be doom1+2 with sweet graphics....which, while nice, isn't exactly going to provide the most immersive and exciting storyline/gameplay...but who knows...maybe it will be really really cool...guess we'll just have to wait

 

[BirdMan]

Doom 3 will not be Doom 1+2 with sweet graphics.

Doom 3 is gonna be Doom 3 with the best immersion, best graph of all time and well written story line and a load of horror.

Back to the topic,

my vote goes to ID. Just cause i prefer the style of ID's game, more than any other game out there. Don't get me wrong, i love HL, but after reading every single articles on DOOM 3; ID knows how to make good games, they know what people like, and NO doom 3 won't be a "shoot everything that moves game". It will be like HL, survival game, but with DOOM's gory and horror style.

 

[Warbie]

^ could be. Doom 3 may be the scariest survival game yet. Who cares if the story is a bag of shite ......... when fighting demons from Hell do we need anything else?

 

[Anthraxxx]

^ could be. Doom 3 may be the scariest survival game yet. Who cares if the story is a bag of shite ......... when fighting demons from Hell do we need anything else?

Yes. We would need a whole boat load of bullets and even more rockets...

 

[MultiVaC]

iD has a track record of engines, not games. I mean, Wolf3D sucked, Doom and Doom2 (was there really much difference?) sucked, Quake sucked, Quake 2 sucked, Quake 3 sucked, RTCW had awesome MP but SP sucked (zombies + WW2 = retarded). iD advance technology, not games. If Doom hadn't advanced technology I would've considered it a bag of crap. Plus, I utterly loathe John Carmack's philosophy on games. So yeah, Valve. And why isn't this a poll?

 

[Styloid]

I guess I just never got into Id myself. At Quake 1 I was playing Duke3d, Quake 2 was HL1, Quake 3 was Unreal Tournament (and HL1). They just seem kind of... bland.

 

[Maskirovka]

lol...zombies + WWII does = retarded....i was gonna say that but i forgot.

the game was cool until the zombies came....just like Far Cry will probably be cool until the zombies come...just like hl2 was cool until you went to Xen....just like S.T.A.L.K.E.R will be cool until zombies come (if they do...but there are mutant animals at least...i just hope they keep it human-oriented with no giant fag things)

adding zombies to a game just means "we can't write decent human AI...so we have to design weird beasts and give human-type things incredibly fast aim to cover up that fact"