Video card buying advice

[CptStern]

I'm looking to buy a new vid card, my 9800pro is getting a little ancient, so I'd thought I'd ask you guys before doing any serious looking. Obviously my motherboard is agp so I'm looking for a card that is agp. Found an ATI x850 xt for sale at Best buy for $350 (canadian) but I'm wondering if this is the best choice seeing as how Nvidia cards have 3.0 shader support (I think) ...so what's the best card for around $400 ...which is pretty much every card except the 850XT PE and the 6800 Ultra and I'm not shelling out an extra $200 for a few more fps. I'm getting this card mostly for Oblivion and whatever game comes out next year ..specifically UT2007. So recommend away


edit:

this says that ati cards perform better than Nvidia cards ...but I though Nvidia had won this latest round

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050705/vga-charts-pcie-05.html

oh and I have a 350 Enermax PSU is it enough to power the 6800GT and the x850XT? the rest of my components: p4 2.8C, asus p4p800, 120 G sata drive, dvd burner/cd burner, 1 g ram, 5 fans ..3 are vantec stealth fans

 

[$kelet0r]

9800s rock!
don't change until you really need to is my advice
seriously there isnt a game the 9800 can't play today

on the other hand you probably got it when it was the creme de la creme of gfx cards so the other option is to shell out 500USD for a 7800 or x1800

 

[CptStern]

ya but they dont make agp versions ..so I'm stuck with what's available currently which may sell out sooner than later ..and my 9800 is getting a bit slow for modern games ..I want to at least get another year out of my current setup

 

[furiousV]

My 9800 Pro doesn't fare too well with Battlefield 2 right now unless I make things very very ugly. I am thinking of a 6800 myself, but not sure wethe to wait till I go PCI-Express or squeeze as much out of my AGP as possible.

ATI cards will mostly win when being tested against nVidia on Half Life 2 as ATI and Valve came to some deal, and HL2 uses technologies that the Radeons have and so on. . . . its evil.

 

[CptStern]

My 9800 Pro doesn't fare too well with Battlefield 2 right now unless I make things very very ugly. I am thinking of a 6800 myself, but not sure wethe to wait till I go PCI-Express or squeeze as much out of my AGP as possible.

ATI cards will mostly win when being tested against nVidia on Half Life 2 as ATI and Valve came to some deal, and HL2 uses technologies that the Radeons have and so on. . . . its evil.

ya but it came on top in other games as well ..look at the link

 

[JellyWorld]

I dunno the 6800 Ultra seemed to beat in in the other games... Except 3dmark05 but synthetic benchmarks mean zilch, really.

 

[CptStern]

I know, that's why I'm confused as the consensus seems to be that Nvidia won this last round

 

[Sanada]

I'm sort of in the same boat as you. I have a Radeon 9700 Pro and it's getting old.

After playing FEAR I relised it might be time to upgrade. I've only got AGP too so my options are limited to X850 series and the 6800. If ATI bring out any of there next generation cards to AGP (though I doubting they will) then I'll probably get a X1600 as it'll have SM 3.0. Otherwise, it'll be one of the others suggested.

The 6800 has SM 3.0 while the ATI is only 2.0. My current card is 2.0 so I'll only get a speed improvemnt going with ATI while I'll get that as well as SM 3.0 support with nVidia.

 

[CptStern]

that's exactly why I'm hesitating purchasing a x850xt despite being cheaper than the 6800 GT

 

[CptStern]

hey where's all the hardware gurus? stern needs help

 

[Gray Fox]

But if you only have an agp slot on your motherboard, doesn't that mean that the rest of your pc is old to, so buying a new card won't do you that much good in future games, you'll improve in current games, but I don't think you'll wanna play UT2007 with that.

 

[CptStern]

no my components are not that old ..a p4 2.8 C is good enough for even the fastest cards (ok maybe not in SLI) but it wont bottle neck my system

 

[jondy]

Was gonna suggest the Sapphire GTO2, as you can get 850XT speeds from it right out the box despite it only costing 150 sterling; but as it's AGP, go with an X800-series ATI, fast as you can afford.

 

[CptStern]

Was gonna suggest the Sapphire GTO2, as you can get 850XT speeds from it right out the box despite it only costing 150 sterling; but as it's AGP, go with an X800-series ATI, fast as you can afford.

ya I was reading something about how GTO2's can be clocked to x850xt speeds but only the pci-x version not the agp. It's sold out in my area


so I should stick with ati and not Nvidia? even though it has support for SM 3.0?

 

[Gray Fox]

no my components are not that old ..a p4 2.8 C is good enough for even the fastest cards (ok maybe not in SLI) but it wont bottle neck my system

It may be good enough for the cards but it won't be good enough for the next gen games like UT2007, your cpu power will bottleneck you. WIth a new card you'll only be able to run current games a lot btter like bf2, fear. But I were you I would wait a little. Buy a game that is not an FPS for once, like psychonauts. And when the time comes fully upgrade my pc.

 

[OCybrManO]

I'm going to wait until after Vista comes to make my next big upgrade for a few reasons:

1) There aren't really many PC games I'm interested in, now. So, it won't be that hard to hold out.
2) New hardware will be available (DX10 cards, multi-core processors, etc)... or, at least, current hardware will be cheaper.
3) I might as well get a new motherboard when Vista comes out because when you change motherboards you should really reinstall the OS, anyway. Why not just do it all in one go?

Until then, I'm just going to grab an AGP All-in-Wonder X800XT for $280.

 

[CptStern]

I'm going to wait until after Vista comes to make my next big upgrade for a few reasons:

1) There aren't really many PC games I'm interested in, now. So, it won't be that hard to hold out.
2) New hardware will be available (DX10 cards, multi-core processors, etc)... or, at least, current hardware will be cheaper.
3) I might as well get a new motherboard when Vista comes out because when you change motherboards you should really reinstall the OS, anyway. Why not just do it all in one go?

Until then, I'm just going to grab an AGP All-in-Wonder X800XT for $280.

that's exactly what I'm thinking ..I want my current rig to last me till then


oh and grey fox, that's the second time you recommended psychonauts ..if I get a chance I'll try it out the demo ..oh and I dont only play fps, currently I'm playing WoW and once I can find a copy I'll get X3: reunion. BTW while I do realise that a new vid card may bottleneck me when it comes to the newest of games it's still better than if I had an underpowered vid card to add to the problem

 

[bryanf445]

hey where's all the hardware gurus? stern needs help

sorry came as fast as i could but i heard that ati might be releasing thir x1800 series to agp, it will be done by 3rd party manufactures though. So this may mean that nvidia will try to counter with a 7800 agp, but we dont know for sure.

lhttp://tweakers.net/nieuws/39878 its in french but

"While ATI Technologies itself decided not to offer its RADEON X1800-series graphics products for AGP 8x bus used in older machines, some of its partners are set to offer AGP 8x graphics cards based on a RADEON X1800-series graphics processing unit (GPU). If this happens, owners of old-generation systems will receive the highest-performing AGP cards ever.

Diamond Multimedia currently advertises its Diamond Viper ATI RADEON X1800 graphics cards with AGP 8x and PCI Express x16 support on its web-site. The page notes that the products are expected to be available in November, 2005, but does not indicate pricing. The web-page even does not indicate whether the model X1800 XL or X1800 XT is set to acquire AGP interface.

ATI RADEON X1800 XL and XT graphics processors feature native PCI Express x16 interface, thus, to make a graphics card with AGP 8x based on the chip will require a special PCI Express-to-AGP bridge called ATI Rialto. Earlier this year numerous makers of graphics cards used Rialto to make RADEON X800 XL and RADEON X800 GTO-based graphics cards for AGP using Rialto bridge.

While few customers currently buy computers featuring AGP 8x slots, there are still some powerful machines featuring processors like AMD Athlon 64 FX or Intel Pentium 4 Extreme Edition central processing units (CPUs) that have enough performance to play modern games, but would demand a high-performance GPU for comfortable playing. So far the most powerful AGP 8x graphics card has been ATI RADEON X850 XT Platinum Edition, as NVIDIA Corp. did not release its GeForce 7800-series products for AGP 8x.

ATI RADEON X1800-series GPUs feature Shader Model 3.0, high dynamic range lighting, a brand-new architecture and other innovations. "

this quote comes from the article

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

I would wait.

Do not make the upgrade to another AGP card.

Wait until you can buy a new Mobo and Processor as well, and get PCI-Express. AGP is already pretty much phased out. So in essence it would be a waste of money now.

I dont think Nvidia has an AGP version of there 7800 series. If they have plans to add or not I dont know, but I doubt it.

So just wait. 9800's still decent.

 

[DrDevin]

I would wait.

Do not make the upgrade to another AGP card.

Wait until you can buy a new Mobo and Processor as well, and get PCI-Express. AGP is already pretty much phased out. So in essence it would be a waste of money now.

I dont think Nvidia has an AGP version of there 7800 series. If they have plans to add or not I dont know, but I doubt it.

So just wait. 9800's still decent.

Exactly. The 9800 can run everything now (albiet poorly) and AGP is pretty much phased out. I would wait for a mobo/CPU and videocard upgrade all at once. Then you could pick up a cheap A64, 939mobo and a 6800gs or 7800gt (depending on your price range and how long you want it to last) and you will be set for another couple years

 

[Last One In]

I know, that's why I'm confused as the consensus seems to be that Nvidia won this last round

You could get a new mobo if you wanted too. I bought an evga 7800GTX that came with a nice SLi mobo that was Pci express. It was bundled with the card itself. It is an nforce 4 mobo though, so depedning on your processor it may not work. heres a link:http://evga.com/articles/public.asp?AID=258

 

[CptStern]

gah!! that's almost $400 more than I wanted to spend ..it's $625 plus a cpu and I'll need a new psu ...but it's not a bad deal ...oh sooooooooo confused!

 

[Asus]

I just switched out my 6800GT for a X850XT and I haven't noticed any real difference to be honest. I havn't had a chance to play BF2 though. Played Fear, lost coast and call of duty2. FYI I didn't pay for a new card and it was for compatibility reasons with another piece of hardware that I switched.

I remember seeing ATI winning Battlefield 1942 benchmarks by a bit but I don't recall BF2. I'd grab whatever you can get cheaper. If you play a lot of HL2 or BF1942 type games where ATI seems to do better and you wanna turn up the resolution then go that route. Or if you play games where Nvidia does better etc.

The one thing I did notice was the X850XT's way it brings air in from behind the case made my PC hotter. I fixed that though.

 

[CptStern]

I just switched out my 6800GT for a X850XT and I haven't noticed any real difference to be honest. I havn't had a chance to play BF2 though. Played Fear, lost coast and call of duty2.

I remember seeing ATI winning Battlefield 1942 benchmarks by a bit but I don't recall BF2. For you, I'd probably recommend grabbing a 6800gt online if it's cheaper than the X850XT. The one thing I did notice was the X850XT's way it brings air in from the back of the case made my PC hotter. I fixed that though.

so upgrading my card would be a good way to get some extra mileage from my current set up? ...instead of just saving my cash for a new system ..which isnt realistic right now or in the next year or so

 

[CptStern]

ok some of you accuse me of not listening to you but here's my opportunity to prove you wrong

so I've now decided to buy a new motherboard/cpu/video card. I'm in the midst of selling my current mobo/cpu/gpu and threw in my older mac g4 (surprisingly enough I'm getting almost as much by selling my mac as I am my pc components ..despite the mac being 3 yrs older) and for $200 more I can get a new cpu/gpu/mobo ..but my budget is tight. These are my options so far:

EVGA E-GEFORCE 7800GT PCI-E 256MB
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=16261

ASUS A8N-SLI MOTHERBOARD
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=14047&vpn=A8N-SLI-UAY&manufacture=ASUS

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Processor S939 Venice
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=14417&vpn=ADA3500BPBOX&manufacture=AMD



what do you guys think?

 

[DrDevin]

ok some of you accuse me of not listening to you but here's my opportunity to prove you wrong

so I've now decided to buy a new motherboard/cpu/video card. I'm in the midst of selling my current mobo/cpu/gpu and threw in my older mac g4 (surprisingly enough I'm getting almost as much by selling my mac as I am my pc components ..despite the mac being 3 yrs older) and for $200 more I can get a new cpu/gpu/mobo ..but my budget is tight. These are my options so far:

EVGA E-GEFORCE 7800GT PCI-E 256MB
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=16261

ASUS A8N-SLI MOTHERBOARD
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=14047&vpn=A8N-SLI-UAY&manufacture=ASUS

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Processor S939 Venice
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=14417&vpn=ADA3500BPBOX&manufacture=AMD



what do you guys think?

Damn good choice.

Wish I had that setup ;(

 

[bryanf445]

wow you will be so happy witha 7800gt and a 3500+, its amazing how different a 9800pro to a 7800gt is (i was in the same position you were in). Whatever doubt you have in your mind throw it out the window and buy those parts!

 

[CptStern]

so I guess I need a psu ...my enermax 350 wont cut it? any recommendations? what wattage should I get if I want another 7800gt down the road?

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

so I guess I need a psu ...my enermax 350 wont cut it? any recommendations? what wattage should I get if I want another 7800gt down the road?

I have almost the exact same setup, accept the motherboard (mines DFI LanParty NForce 4 Ultra). I have the same brand of 7800GT to, (EVGA). Anyway Im gonna recommend this for power supply:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=12386&vpn=NEO POWER&manufacture=ANTEC

I have it. Its a good name. Its more then enough power. Its quiet (uses a 120mm fan instead of 80 that most use). It has detachable cables, and ALL the cables come pre wrapped in a nice cable wrap to make things nice and neat. Not that expensive either.

Oh yea, I also order all my parts from NCIX.

And yea you will see a huge difference. I went from a 9600XT to this, and it was way better, the image quality improved a lot too, not just performance.

 

[Last One In]

Yeah, I upgraded from a pentium 2.5 and a 9700PRO to a sandiego AMD 4000+, the same mobo you're getting, and an EVGA 7800GTX. There was a world of difference and it made battlefield 2 seem like heaven.

 

[Viperidae]

I'm kind of in the same predicament.

I have a 9600p (gasp, teh oldness!) that I bought two years ago, and I'm thinking of replacing it for Christmas. I'm wanting a new card basically to play BF2 better and try some of the newer games that would blow up my PC if I tried them with the current card (ie FEAR). My question is should I wait until after the holiday season or should I go ahead as planned, and, if so, which card should I buy? I'm aiming for something sub-top of the line, as I'm not too well endowed in the economic department.

I've been reading about the x1800xt and the Nvidia's etc, but I'm so far behind in the times I can't tell which is the best bang for the buck.

And no, I won't buy other new parts for the PC; I simply don't have the money.

BTW comp = Asus P800 E-Deluxe, P4 2.66 512k, 1024mb DDR400.

 

[Asus]

Look at the sticker on the Enermax Powersupply. Does the +12V rail have at least 15amps? Enermax is a good brand. It should work fine as long as you don't have a number of harddrives.

 

[CptStern]

I have almost the exact same setup, accept the motherboard (mines DFI LanParty NForce 4 Ultra). I have the same brand of 7800GT to, (EVGA). Anyway Im gonna recommend this for power supply:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=12386&vpn=NEO POWER&manufacture=ANTEC

I have it. Its a good name. Its more then enough power. Its quiet (uses a 120mm fan instead of 80 that most use). It has detachable cables, and ALL the cables come pre wrapped in a nice cable wrap to make things nice and neat. Not that expensive either.

Oh yea, I also order all my parts from NCIX.

And yea you will see a huge difference. I went from a 9600XT to this, and it was way better, the image quality improved a lot too, not just performance.

will that psu be enough if I should decide to get another 7800gt sometime down the road? that psu is probably at the ceiling of my budget but I've also heard good things about it and antec in general. Ya ncix is good most of the time for certain things; I'll get the vid card and the mobo from ncix but I'm getting the cpu somewhere else as it's $40 cheaper. But I love the fact that I dont pay pst at ncix cuz I'm in ontario

 

[dream431ca]

Buy most expensive card...be happy

 

[CptStern]

Look at the sticker on the Enermax Powersupply. Does the +12V rail have at least 15amps? Enermax is a good brand. It should work fine as long as you don't have a number of harddrives.

dont know if I'm reading it right but it says under +12: 26A


it's this exact model, the specs are midway down


http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=13570&vpn=EG365P-VE(FMA24)&manufacture=ENERMAX


I have a single drive, 2 dc/dvd burners and 4 fans. I'd rather not buy another psu for the time being if I can stick with the enermax

 

[Hazar]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153006

I just got that psu which is a really good deal for the money.

Anyways, I have a 9800pro as well, right now I think I'm gonna try to hold out on my current system for awhile until the 'next' gen of games come out that my comp really won't be able to handle, then I'll buy a new mobo, cpu, and video card all at the same time. It's not even really worth it to speculate on what they'll be 'cause things change too much in price and specs.

 

[SAJ]

Stern ,you may have noticed that there is a price premium on agp cards over their pci-e equivilents.
My suggestion would be to see if you can get a pci-e motherboard for your cpu(dont know much about intel sockets). The saving on a pci-e card should offset your costs for a new mb.
Post your cpu socket details and we should be able to advise you further.

Edit : oops, should have read whole thread before posting, oh well.
Are you sure your cpu cant be re-used?
Your psu will run a single 7800, but youll need something more meaty if you want sli in the future.

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

will that psu be enough if I should decide to get another 7800gt sometime down the road? that psu is probably at the ceiling of my budget but I've also heard good things about it and antec in general. Ya ncix is good most of the time for certain things; I'll get the vid card and the mobo from ncix but I'm getting the cpu somewhere else as it's $40 cheaper. But I love the fact that I dont pay pst at ncix cuz I'm in ontario

Antec is one of the best makes for PSU. You could run that setup (with 1 vid card) with a 350 watt Antec PSU. 480 watts will be enough. The 7800's series of cards dont draw all that much power, a lot less then the 6800 series, and a hell of a lot less then the new ATI Radeon X1800 series.

 

[Last One In]

EVga also offers the step up program stern. I can't find a link to info but it is a program where they will let you trade in your card within ninety days of purchase as a payment toward a better card. the nice thing is they will give you the full value of what you paid for the card.

 

[CptStern]

EVga also offers the step up program stern. I can't find a link to info but it is a program where they will let you trade in your card within ninety days of purchase as a payment toward a better card. the nice thing is they will give you the full value of what you paid for the card.

I was just looking at this bundle you mentioned earlier .. it's gone down to $499 canadian which is just $50 above the price of the vid card. Very few reviews online of the bundle, some user reviews mentioned it's confusing to set up, the manual is flimsy and they had problems with drivers ..oh and it wasnt for a beginner who hasnt had much experience setting up the mobo since the manual wasnt much help ...well I'm that guy

I wonder if that step up thingy would work with the bundle