Video of Penn & Teller's take on gun control

[SIGbastard]

I watched this and thought it was done very well.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5001380249576962921&q=gun+control&pl=true

 

[Que-Ever]

heh...

"religion? oh, sorry, gun show. PULL!"

 

[Solaris]

Penn and teller own your mother f****g cat.
I haven't watched it but I'm sure whatever conclusion they reached is correct and I shall adjust my opinion accordingly.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Penn and teller own your mother f****g cat.
I haven't watched it but I'm sure whatever conclusion they reached is correct and I shall adjust my opinion accordingly.

What did I say about stuff like this?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I love Penn and Teller, and this is my all time favorite episode.

 

[Gray Fox]

The episode is rediculus. They make michael moore look like the BBC.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Um, no. But if that's how the BBC is I don't see how anyone can say it's centrist.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

They are correct on most of their points.

However, the idea of a citizen militia overthrowing the government is just plain outdated by this point. It's not 1700 anymore.
Also, if the internet has proven me anything, it's that well over half the population shouldn't be allowed near the average household garage, let alone a handgun.

I do agree that guns are useful, but there gets to be a point where it starts resembling nuclear proliferation.
There should be extremely large amounts of regulation on sensible grounds.

 

[Flyingdebris]

its not so much that they can overthrow the government, but its the fact that they could put up a fight.

Putting up a fight and losing is still infinitely better than being bossed around like a sheep.

Penn and Teller FTMFW

I'd propose an IQ test being required for getting a gun liscense though. At least keep the terminally stupid people from carrying them.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Yeah, an IQ test is the sort of deal I'm talking about. Maybe require a full highschool education, if it doesn't require that already.
Also, every gun sold should definitely be "fingerprinted" by shooting one bullet and then sending its record into an FBI database.

The logistics behind organizing a remotely successful large-scale civilian attack on the government are just crazy complex though. I'd warrant that it would be well beyond the populace's ability to engineer.
Small-scale things would be the way to go.
But at the same time, you look at Kennedy and see the problem with small groups or individuals taking on the gov.

And, in this information age that has seen the rise and fall of Hitler and Stalin, I find it highly, highly unlikely that things could get that bad in the first place today.

I also see a problem with inheritance.
Sure, people buying handguns undergo a screening process and training, but in a hundred years they'll be dead and their guns would then end up anywhere.

 

[Raziaar]

I love Penn & Teller bullshit. Even if I don't agree with some of the things they say, It's ****ing awesome to watch them.

 

[pomegranate]

And, in this information age that has seen the rise and fall of Hitler and Stalin, I find it highly, highly unlikely that things could get that bad in the first place today.

I don't exactly follow the logic of that sentence - Hitler killed himself, Stalin died of a stroke after being a total bastard for a very long time. Leaders are even more 'safe' from violent death these days (see the insane level of protection when President Bush makes a state visit). So what point are you making, exactly?

 

[Ikerous]

The idea of all women having guns is what scared me the most :|
I guarantee you i'd be dead by now if they did

 

[VirusType2]

I watched the video. Downloaded it while I was playing Morrowind. Didn't learn anything new here.

My father was President of the Cedar Creek Battlefield Foundation for 3 years until he realized he didn't have enough time to donate, but he has been an active member for a long time. The Cedar Creek Battlefield Foundation here in Virginia does re-enactments like the ones in the video.

I have been a gun enthusiast all my life. I have owned guns since I was old enough, starting with air-guns. I have never once pointed one at anyone nor felt the desire to do so. As mad as I get, I don't think I could take anyone's life unless it was self defense.

The gun laws here in VA - if I'm not mistaken, are 16 to own a rifle or shotgun and 21 to own a handgun. I think this is pretty much right. I do NOT think children should have access to a gun of any kind without their parent or guardian supervising them. Children haven't been alive long enough to be responsible for their actions - in fact, legally they aren't. So therefore they shouldn't have the ability to easily take someone's life with a gun. If they made it so you must be 18 to own a rifle or shotgun I would be in agreement, but I digress.

The minute Congress begins to try to pass a full gun ban is the minute a million Americans go to the gun store and arm up.

Just like a gun in the hands of a good citizen is a deterrent against a criminal, a gun in the hands of a good citizen is a deterrent against the government, whether it be a corrupt local police officer, police force, or otherwise. Whether the criminal, the government, or the good citizen wins is not even the issue. If you have a lock on your door does that prevent a criminal from breaking into your home? No, but it's a deterrent and it makes me feel safer.

Imagine a corrupt cop attempts to break in and rape your momma but mommas got a gun. Just because a police officer goes through lots of training and swears an oath does not make him immune to corruption and bad deeds. Thats why citizens having an ability to defend themselves is of extreme importance. Now replace corrupt cop with armed criminal and you still get the same result. Mom is safe, bad guy is in jail, dead, or the criminal runs out of the house scared. He might think twice before doing that again as well. Deterrent. It's not always a win situation of course, that goes without saying, but statistics very heavily support these types of scenarios as a win for the good guys.

 

[OvA]

They are very right. There's a small town north of here with very loose gun laws. I went there with my dad to hunt, and 50% of people had a Glock on their belt. You'd have to be a madman to commit a crime there.

 

[Icarusintel]

And, in this information age that has seen the rise and fall of Hitler and Stalin, I find it highly, highly unlikely that things could get that bad in the first place today.

This statement is highly ignorant. You assume that people as a whole are going to keep their leaders in check, but the problem doesn;t come with a radical change like those dictators imposed, but with gradual changes that lead to the cessation of power from the citizens to the government. Any person taking power these days would not do so in such a violent manner but would instead slowly pass laws and directives that would take away more and more of the peoples' ability to fight back.

I personally could see such a problem developing, especially on the issue of gun laws. Many people now see this problem in the USA Patriot Act. There is a slow cessation of rights and liberties leading to the point where there are none left.

Controlling the ownership of guns is important, but at the same time the people that the guns are protecting against, the criminals, don;t follow any laws. I am personally going to seek a concealed carry permit as soon as I can. I'd like to have the feeling of safety one gets carrying a firearm.

Also, the problem people have with accidental deaths contributable to firearms in a house I think can at least partially be attributable to the lack of understanding the kids are given about the guns. Certainly guns need to be safely hidden away, but the kids should also be educated about their parents' firearms.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

This statement is highly ignorant. You assume that people as a whole are going to keep their leaders in check, but the problem doesn;t come with a radical change like those dictators imposed, but with gradual changes that lead to the cessation of power from the citizens to the government. Any person taking power these days would not do so in such a violent manner but would instead slowly pass laws and directives that would take away more and more of the peoples' ability to fight back.

I personally could see such a problem developing, especially on the issue of gun laws. Many people now see this problem in the USA Patriot Act. There is a slow cessation of rights and liberties leading to the point where there are none left.

Controlling the ownership of guns is important, but at the same time the people that the guns are protecting against, the criminals, don;t follow any laws. I am personally going to seek a concealed carry permit as soon as I can. I'd like to have the feeling of safety one gets carrying a firearm.

Also, the problem people have with accidental deaths contributable to firearms in a house I think can at least partially be attributable to the lack of understanding the kids are given about the guns. Certainly guns need to be safely hidden away, but the kids should also be educated about their parents' firearms.

Exactly. You know why I never had a firearm tragedy as a young child growing up with them? Because I knew how they worked and what they were capable off. I wasn't going to pull it out and toy around with it or aim it at people because I was taught those things, in a fun and family environment too

 

[Flyingdebris]

As far as accidental home shootings, I'm fairly certain that the grand majority of those are due to people who are ignorant of how to properly handle and care for a weapon. Better training = less mistakes.

 

[Yuri]

I love Bullshit! but sometimes I disagree with what they have to say. I liked it mostly when they had shows on non-reputable things, like pretty mucha all of the first season. I mean, it was more a show devoted to debunking liars and assholes than a show giving its political stances. Debunking psychics and people who talk to the dead used to be their cause...

After the first season, they kinda kept running out of stuff to talk about... so they kept the arrogant nature of the show and made lots more on disputable political things. Its hard to respect them any more.

Once the show started being arrogant about "Self defense" I just kinda tuned out. I don't see how gun ownership should have anything, anything, anything to do with self defense. Other than a lame excuse to have a cool gun.

My only opinion on gun control is that the laws in the US are just way too f*cking loose. WAYYY too much. I'd only like to see far stricter gun laws. If you must "defend" your home from the commies and the terrorists (lol), then do it with a hunting rifle. Or do it with a handgun that you worked very, very, very hard to achieve. But don't do it with your armor-piercing semi-auto M15.

I just wish that the laws required a damn good reason to have a weapon, whether its hunting, or whatever. And I'd like to see it take a f*cking long, long hard time to achieve the proper licenses for the right people.





In other news, I have no f*cking idea why they didn't rank on that crazy paranoid bitch with the billion gunz. :O



And wow, these people saying you need guns in case the government wants to take you in? How can you compare the 16th century to present day? We have things like, oh, MISSILES now. And NUKES. TANKS? SUBMARINES? And things that will F*CKING KILL YOU BEFORE YOU CAN EVEN LOOK AT YOUR GUN. A gun won't EVER save you from the government. If the military wants the US to be totalitarian, they will do it in a matter of DAYS.

Also, this is terribly sexist. :|

 

[VirusType2]

Exactly. You know why I never had a firearm tragedy as a young child growing up with them? Because I knew how they worked and what they were capable off. I wasn't going to pull it out and toy around with it or aim it at people because I was taught those things, in a fun and family environment too

Yup same here, well said.

In elementary school there was a Hunter Safety Course offered. It was a very brief class about gun safety. I took that, I don't even remember what was said but It was gun safety.

When I was about 13, I shot my BB and pellet guns almost every day for years. (My mom didn't even know I had them because she hates guns)

In military school at 16 years old, I joined the Archery club and the NRA club. I learned how hard it is to make a perfect shot and earned several medals in shooting competitions.

Today, at 31 years old, I don't find it fun to fire weapons anymore, haven't fired but a hundred shots in the past 15 years, and I don't think about them, but I have that skill If need be. Just a couple years ago I went out with my brother and my dad for some target practice and I actually hit a dead-center bullseye with my first try at like 200 yards my fist time firing my fathers hunting rifle. I was like,"OK thats it. One shot, one kill, I'm done practicing." To be honest I didn't want to mess up my perfect record True story ask my brother Sidious.

In my life, I've shot tens of thousands of rounds. If you are going to own a firearm, you should do plenty of target practice to be sure you understand where to aim.

I am so anal about gun safety I'd probably get on your nerves if we went shooting together, that is, if you make me nervous. I don't think gun education and safety can be stressed enough and is very quick and easy to learn.

I totally understand when people say they hate guns or are scared of them or don't want to be any where near them (my mother), and it probably comes from a bad experience, a misunderstanding of how they work, or simply because you don't trust the person holding them to be safe with them. If you don't know how to handle a firearm safely, these scary people will be the first to tell you, "WHOA, WATCH WHERE YOU POINT THAT THING!"

Like they said in the video, there are many many more good guys than bad guys, so if everyone had a gun, there would be a lot of scared bad guys that wouldn't be able to get away with anything.

 

[gick]

Hmmmm. I'm still sitting on the fence on this issue. As much as I like the idea of people having some form of defence against the government, there is no way in hell some dude with an M4 is going to be able to take on an Apache. And besides, if a government is going to take over, they will do it slowly and gradually - not in an armed conflict. And if they've got any sense they'll let people keep their guns to give them a false sense of security.

 

[Razor]

As far as accidental home shootings, I'm fairly certain that the grand majority of those are due to people who are ignorant of how to properly handle and care for a weapon. Better training = less mistakes.

Exactly.

In my opinion, owning a gun and getting a gun license should be the same thing as owning a car and getting a driving license. You should have to go down to the local gun range, get taught how to look after and how to shoot your weapon, how to handle it responsibly, etc, and would need to take a Weapons Handling Test at the end of it before you can buy a gun. It's not the guns that are killing innocent Americans...it's the ignorant American's who leave loaded guns on their coffee table when children are around that are causing the problem. I mean, look at Britain, a country that banned all firearms and guns due to a stupid and awful incident yet gun crime hasn't gone down, it went up sharply.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2656875.stm
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/14032006/17/car-jackings-killings-push-gun-crime.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/02/24/nguns24.xml

The big problem is, when something bad happens, they don't want to blame themselves, the parents of the criminal/murderer/rapist, society, schooling, or whatever, they choose to blame something where they can enact lots of publicity, lots of money or just to have an overly extreme but nonsensical reaction.

Because guns have been criminalised, people will look to games, when violent games are criminalised, they will look to rap music, when rap music is criminalised, they will look to shocking footage of violence on the news...imagine a newspaper that has references to violent crimes at all as other people might be wanting to do copy cat murders or whatever.

Society is just getting more weak and more pathetic as time goes by because society is unwilling to blame themselves for their own problems. If you don't have a job, it's because the government failed you miserably rather then you spending all your school time smoking, having sex and getting drunk due to the bad examples your parents set...

Outlawing guns won't stop gun crime, as has been proven in the United Kingdom over the past 10 years since Dunblane. Britain has the "best" gun laws in the world when it comes to outlawing guns yet as soon as the gunlaws came in place, gun crime shot up between 30% - 40%.

Another case study you could do is Switherland...look at the gun laws, or lack there of, in Switherland and then look at how many gun massacres there are or accidental gun deaths or whatever...

 

[Flyingdebris]

its not a matter of handgun vs apache.

the matter is that you have something, period.

Like what was previously mentioned, what if a corrupt cop goes over to your house to kill you, rape you, rob you, whatever. What are you going to do? Ask him politely to go away?

The law exists so that you can safeguard your freedoms by force if necessary. Thats why the law is there.


As for gun safety. Virus and Razor are right. It is imperative to practice as much gun safety as possible if you own one or live with someone who does. Also to have a good role model. I have an uncle who is a slacker in many things, but when it comes to guns he very meticulously practices safety. He made sure that while i was target shooting at a shooting range that i practiced proper discipline, emptied the chamber when finished, knew how to reload properly, knew to keep the safety on until i was ready to shoot, and generally knew how to practice firing as safely as possible. There need to be more people like him that will teach gun owners.

 

[Solaris]

HOLY SHIZZLE! You made me spit my coke out onto my keyboard in shock!!
-The gun laws here in VA - if I'm not mistaken, are 16 to own a rifle

SIXTEEN!?!?? TO OWN A RIFLE!?!? WITH THE POTENCIAL TO EASILLY KILL!?!?!

Omg that is just..... I'm gobsmacked by the thought that people in my class if we were in America could legally own a gun.

That's just crazy.

 

[Gunner]

Simple question for gun owners & advocates: Why do you need guns?

 

[Raziaar]

Simple question for gun owners & advocates: Why do you need guns?

Beats me!

But the only guns I want, are airsoft guns. Realistic looking, and used to line an entire wall in my bedroom. It'd be awesome! Shotguns, rifles, handguns, a sniper rifle or two...

 

[Some_God]

Don't blame the gun, blame the people!

 

[CptStern]

Don't blame the gun, blame the people!

yes dont blame the bomb, blame the people behind the bomb

 

[Raziaar]

yes dont blame the bomb, blame the people behind the bomb

That would make for a totally sweet lake.

 

[CptStern]

That would make for a totally sweet lake.

if you dont mind swimming in a pool of human ashes

 

[Raziaar]

if you dont mind swimming in a pool of human ashes

All that stuff sinks to the bottom eventually.

 

[CptStern]

and collects in the sentiment ..which you have walk through ..which causes you to stir it up again

 

[gick]

Don't blame the gun, blame the people!

I'm beginning to come around to that way of thinking actually. Why? Well look at Switzerland. Every man aged between 21 and 32 are required by law to own an assault rifle, and altogether there are thought to be at least 2 million guns (in a country of 6 million). Yet gun violent crime is non existent. This is because Switzerland has none of the social problems associated with gun crime seen in other industrialised countries like gangs or urban deprivation.

Soooooo, if there was less poverty etc, there would be less gun crime.

 

[CptStern]

but it's not just gun crime ..in fbi stats for gun related deaths they found that the overwhelming majority of people were killed by someone who was known to them ...which kinda dispells that whole "we need guns to protect ourselves from random strangers intent on killing us/stealing our stuff"

 

[mindless_moder]

I'm beginning to come around to that way of thinking actually. Why? Well look at Switzerland. Every man aged between 21 and 32 are required by law to own an assault rifle

why is that :S ?, self defense ? military use?.

 

[Gunner]

Soooooo, if there was less poverty etc, there would be less gun crime.

Soooooo, if there were no guns, there would be no gun crime.

 

[Nat Turner]

but it's not just gun crime ..in fbi stats for gun related deaths they found that the overwhelming majority of people were killed by someone who was known to them ...which kinda dispells that whole "we need guns to protect ourselves from random strangers intent on killing us/stealing our stuff"

So because you know the person suddenly that disqualifies self defense???

 

[CptStern]

? please explain how I even remotely suggested that?

 

[Yuri]

? please explain how I even remotely suggested that?

Yeah, please enlighten us, Turner.


I just love the thought of people feeling so much safer with a gun up their ass. If someone wants to kill you, they can f*cking kill you. Its not that hard. Generally people who kill people don't scream it while running through their house.

I also think its hilarious that some people want every. single. person. in the world to own a gun. Do we feel that unsafe with our current form of laws and law enforcement that we need a gun holster in our rectums at all time?

People who carry guns around all the time do it for two reasons:
1. They think its cool to show it off to their friends, and get loads of attention for it. Main reason.
2. They actually are paranoid freaks, and probably shouldn't have a f*cking gun in the first place.


If you are a getting mugged or raped, how is a gun possibly going to help you? Obviously, the perpetrator snuck up on you to grab you, otherwise you would have ran like f*cking hell. If you have it in your purse or bag, won't the mugger first go for that? If you have it in a nice holster on your chest, how the f*ck do you expect to get to it? If the person grabbed your purse or bag and ran like hell, what gives you the right to kill them?

 

[CptStern]

what I can never understand about gun ownership is that most people think the way I do: everyone's an idiot except for themselves ....so why would you want some who's not as bright as you are to own a gun?

"I can trust myself not to do something stupid, but I cant trust the other person will do the same"