VNN Makes Up Nonesense About Passionate TF2 Mod Team

[Acurt1982]

"Have you ever felt uncertain about the direction TF2 is heading in? Or perhaps been disappointed that Valve hasn't given this game the attention it deserves? Never fret, your worries have been assuaged - our team has begun work on a community-driven edition of Team Fortress 2... using the 2008 leaked Source Code. This mod aims to bring not only scrapped features back, but also add in new, never before seen features."

http://steamed.kotaku.com/fed-up-team-fortress-2-fans-are-making-their-own-versio-1696584047

Former fans have gotten sick and tired of Valve's attitude and treatment towards Team Fortress 2 over the years. Using a leaked source code, they've taken it upon themselves to recreate the game in their own image, adding in a more "modern FPS" twist to the "outdated" style of TF2. You can learn more about the project from the internet's #1 source of Valve related news, the VNN:

How do you as a Valve fan feel about this blatant anti-Valve mod? You can let the creators know how you feel by visiting the thread at Facepunch.

 

[-smash-]

You can learn more about the project from the internet's #1 source of Valve related news, the VNN

LMAO! Do you know how much damage control this TF2 mod team is conducting right now because of VNN - the worst source of any news anywhere?

http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1458694&p=47485892&viewfull=1#post47485892
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1458694&p=47485926&viewfull=1#post47485926
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1458694&p=47486096&viewfull=1#post47486096
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1458694&p=47486098&viewfull=1#post47486098
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1458694&p=47486101&viewfull=1#post47486101

The dude is a clown and always, ALWAYS gets shit wrong. Kotaku is shit, too. I nearly fainted when I saw both in the OP together.

Anyways, I'll front-page this tomorrow night if none of my colleagues can't get around to it before then.

 

[404]

So this is why that one solitary guy came in and was like "why the hell do you guys hate valve?".

This has pretty much been corrected on Kotaku already (they removed the "fed up" bit from the article title), but I'll say this here just in case.

1. We're not fed up, nor do we think Valve is poisonous
2. Half the things VNN said in his video were either slightly inaccurate (i.e. the "Commando" class is actually called The Mercenary), or outright wrong (we don't think Valve is poisoning TF2 or whatever it was VNN said)

The mod is not an anti-Valve mod. We are very much pro-Valve. I knew that the day VNN released a video on us, Kotaku would be quick to make an article about it as they have done in the past. Hopefully now with this debacle they've learned to stop making articles for every video VNN puts out.

 

[Acurt1982]

shill

how much are they paying you

 

[404]

shill

how much are they paying you

Yeah I got that in my email, even though you edited your post.

Nobody is paying us anything.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

Kotaku is a joke and a complete shithole.

 

[Lolcomputer]

He made the video private... Damn.

I bet he won't even apologize, but we'll see.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

Our differences with Tyler's approach haven't been a secret, generally the confusion came about previously over where these originated from and now is a good opportunity to clarify it was over his slapdash approach to conveying information accurately with integrity. We take our position seriously in terms of making sure what we put out isn't clickbait or misinformation, but accurate. That is often at detriment to our exposure and coverage, by not playing the game of posting what people want to read. The truth is, we care too much about what Valve have done and are doing to do anything different.

The exposés we've done (Episode 3, Episode 4, Prospero) were conducted to control the information so that it is presented accurately and doesn't misinform people. Often in cases, such as Prospero, I've been in contact with Valve beforehand to get their comments / understanding, prior to posting. I've even had employees add me on Steam and say they read and get a kick out of what we publish (e.g. the Jira leak).

I think Tyler needs to understand the importance of the topic he is covering. He does have a different approach to us which goes against the grain of how we work but I'm certain he's learning and hopefully improving all the time. This video unfortunately perfectly summarises this problem quite nicely for him, evidently he's acknowledged that and pulled it down which is I think is a brave and the correct decision.

I'm sorry to the mod team who have unfortunately had to suffer from the consequences of this, you guys deserve better for the work you're doing. I'd advise you approach Tyler and perhaps work with him to create a video in the future which is an accurate reflection of what you're doing to inform people correctly. Naturally I'd extend that invitation to us as well, however I'm not interested in a bum fight for exposure on the back of this circus.

 

[404]

He made the video private... Damn.

I bet he won't even apologize, but we'll see.

Actually he did, to me, on Steam

I have to apologise, I took down the video and will not be making another on the topic. I am really sorry about the commando and classes and stuff. Please belive that I use this to learn how to make better videos, and that due to the personal conficts happening at the time of filming the video, I should have just left it alone. I am sorry.

The exposés we've done (Episode 3, Episode 4, Prospero) were conducted to control the information so that it is presented accurately and doesn't misinform people. Often in cases, such as Prospero, I've been in contact with Valve beforehand to get their comments / understanding, prior to posting. I've even had employees add me on Steam and say they read and get a kick out of what we publish (e.g. the Jira leak).

Wait you guys know Valve? We've been trying to get in touch with them to show them our work because we are using TF2 source code from a 2008 leak. We know we've been kinda distributing that code in a way which some may frown upon, but we mainly want to show Valve what we're working on and say "We mean no harm to Team Fortress 2 or its economy".

 

[chase172]

Yeah, also we're trying to see if they could give us the beta content. We want it to be a community mod with updates and changes made by the community, but also with beta content like the lightwarps, models, textures, maps and other stuff.

 

[Lolcomputer]

Actually he did, to me, on Steam.

Very nice to know! Although I find it sad that he won't correct his misinformation in a future video, as he said
"I took down the video and will not be making another on the topic."

I wonder if all those followers of VNN that saw the video, now has a toxic approach to your project; If that is the case, it is most unfortunate for your project.

 

[404]

Very nice to know! Although I find it sad that he won't correct his misinformation in a future video, as he said
"I took down the video and will not be making another on the topic."

I wonder if all those followers of VNN that saw the video, now has a toxic approach to your project; If that is the case, it is most unfortunate for your project.

You probably know this already judging by the project leader, but I feel I should clarify to anyone who reads this randomly. The TF2C project was created by and is led by Danielmm8888. In the early days when I had created the first Facepunch thread, you have no idea how many people were adding me on Steam congratulating me on doing such a good job on the project, and I'd have to correct them.

 

[Lolcomputer]

You probably know this already judging by the project leader, but I feel I should clarify to anyone who reads this randomly. The TF2C project was created by and is led by Danielmm8888. In the early days when I had created the first Facepunch thread, you have no idea how many people were adding me on Steam congratulating me on doing such a good job on the project, and I'd have to correct them.

I was actually not aware of this, I couldn't find much info about the project. How come Danielmm8888 is not the one presenting his own project?

 

[Omnomnick]

Welcome to the forums! Sorry to hear you guys are being put through Tyler's ring of bullshit, I know the feeling. Hopefully this is the time people finally wake up to the literal pile of shit that is his channel and his content.

2. Half the things VNN said in his video were either slightly inaccurate (i.e. the "Commando" class is actually called The Mercenary), or outright wrong (we don't think Valve is poisoning TF2 or whatever it was VNN said)

This describes pretty much everything Tyler has ever researched himself, including so many of his beta content videos, which make so many totally false claims about the development of Left 4 Dead and Half-Life, etc.

Shoot me a message if you'd like me to try and work on some kind of video of our own in order to try and put the record straight, I'd be more than happy to help.

 

[chase172]

Jesus christ I thought this community would respect people, not shit on other people.

 

[Omnomnick]

Jesus christ I thought this community would respect people, not shit on other people.

I respect people who earn respect or who don't appear to actively want to lose it, like modders or developers who work their backsides off, not over-exposed teenagers spreading lies and misinformation for self-promotion.

 

[404]

I was actually not aware of this, I couldn't find much info about the project. How come Danielmm8888 is not the one presenting his own project?

He's usually busy with coding and such.

Also please do ignore chase, he's not representative of us people related to the TF2 Classic project with his remark about this community shitting on other people. We of course understand that Acurt is just one person on this community of many, and that not everyone shares his point of view.

 

[Lolcomputer]

Jesus christ I thought this community would respect people, not shit on other people.

*EDIT* What I was trying to say: Nick has a justified response, because of the dreadfull content VNN creates. I don't think Nick has anything personal towards Tyler, he's only mad at how Tyler provides his viewerbase news.

I mean, these shitty situations happens because of misinformations.

He's usually busy with coding and such.

Also please do ignore chase, he's not representative of us people related to the TF2 Classic project with his remark about this community shitting on other people. We of course understand that Acurt is just one person on this community of many, and that not everyone shares his point of view.

I'm going to be honest, and say that I know none of these people you've mentioned. I'll remember about chase and Acurt if I stumble upon them reading about the mod, thanks!

 

[404]

I'm going to be honest, and say that I know none of these people you've mentioned. I'll remember about chase and Acurt if I stumble upon them reading about the mod, thanks!

Acurt isn't from Facepunch. I don't know who he is to be honest.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

So, I want to preface this with how I didn't want to write this post, but ultimately I feel like I need to say something. Some of the conduct ValveTime has had in reference to VNN is less becoming of a website of your quality. When I see stuff like "Hopefully this is the time people finally wake up to the literal pile of shit that is his channel and his content" here on the forum, or little jabs that pop up in your videos, I feel less like I'm visiting a great news website, and more like I'm viewing a petty fued between fans. It takes me out of the news.

There's of course nothing wrong in correcting inaccuracies and falsehoods; but I feel like more tact could be used? I really like this website because it feels professional. You guys obviously put a lot of time and effort into what you produce, and I feel like you're doing your hard work a disservice when you engage on that level.

Shoot me a message if you'd like me to try and work on some kind of video of our own in order to try and put the record straight, I'd be more than happy to help.

Like, for example, if this video gets made, I hope it'll be about correcting the perception of the mod and spotlighting a cool thing the community is doing, and not be used to "call out" VNN, or throw some sly snark their way, even though they are totally to blame here. Now, don't get me wrong, VNN is loaded with inaccuracies and bad speculation, and it certainly deserves to be held accountable for that; but I feel like there's a more professional way of doing so than what I've seen so far.

Anyway, just my two cents on the matter.

Good luck to you TF2 Classic guys! I hope you get some great press soon.

 

[-smash-]

Anyways, I'll front-page this tomorrow night if none of my colleagues can't get around to it before then.

Looks like we may be covering your mod in another format soon, so I'll be deferring to that instead.

 

[Omnomnick]

Like, for example, if this video gets made, I hope it'll be about correcting the perception of the mod and spotlighting a cool thing the community is doing, and not be used to "call out" VNN, or throw some sly snark their way, even if they are totally to blame here. Now, don't get me wrong, VNN is loaded with inaccuracies and bad speculation, and it certainly deserves to be held accountable for that; but I feel like there's a more professional way of doing so than what I've seen so far.

Me personally calling out Tyler for the way he manages his channel and content has very little to do with the rest of the site staff's perception of him, it's entirely my own opinion. Check out the rest of the replies from staff in this thread if you want a broader view from the likes of Glenn and Smash.

I've already spoken to 404 briefly about organising the video, and what you described is basically exactly what we're looking to do. It's safe to say public perception of the mod and what it is setting out to do has been damaged by Tyler's inaccuracies, and that's simply unfair and unacceptable. That isn't to say the video won't touch on the fact this is all Tyler's fault, it's a core section of the topic, but it's hopefully going to be far from just bitching at him.

 

[-smash-]

Me personally calling out Tyler for the way he manages his channel and content has very little to do with the rest of the site staff's perception of him. I've already spoken to 404 briefly about organising the video, and what you described is basically exactly what we're looking to do. It's safe to say public perception of the mod and what it is setting out to do has been damaged by Tyler's inaccuracies, and that's simply unfair and unacceptable.

His point is that, as a whole, the staff and the VT.net community creates its own characteristic qualities. If any one of us continues to lambaste another subset of the Valve community, it has the potential to tarnish public perception of our character.

If we're going to continue to criticize Tyler or another area of the community, we should be careful and use a more objective approach.

 

[Omnomnick]

If we're going to continue to criticize Tyler or another area of the community, we should be careful and use a more objective approach.

I'd argue I've attempted to take a more balanced, objective approach in the past, to no avail.

 

[-smash-]

If you've been attempting to change Tyler's methods of research, yeah, it's obviously not helped. But I think that idea that you PMd me earlier today, if it gains traction, could help because that exposure may force him and others to measure twice and cut once.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

I'd argue that the Lead Content Creator title you have under your name means you are representing this website. If you were hurling racial slurs or other offensive material in your posts, it's not a random guy posting it; it's ValveTime's Lead Content Creator posting it, and without disavowment from the rest of the website, I can only asume they condone the opinion. Now, certainly calling his channel shit isn't something aggregious like racial slurs, that was an extreme example. However, as I said, it still does reflect negatively on your website in my eyes.

Also on at least two different occasionals I recall ValveTime throwing shade his way in your videos. As I said, it takes me out of the news and makes you guys look more concerned with telling people how much better you are than him rather than, you know, just being better than him and letting the viewer decide. And as a viewer, that just makes me feel greasy to sit through.

 

[Omnomnick]

Also on at least two different occasionals I recall ValveTime throwing shade his way in your videos.

I'll admit it's hardly necessary for me to call him out in the way I did, but my dislike for his channel and how he approaches content spiked pretty hard when he took part in a discussion elsewhere on our forums a couple of months ago. While I've since purged the entire thread from the site, I'm confident numerous active users will recount Tyler basically resorting to throwing around pointless subscriber and viewer figures in attempt to somehow prove his content is superior to our own and to much of the community.

Prior to that, I was pretty calm regarding how I discussed and criticised Tyler's activities, but his appearance and general attitude in that thread really ticked me off, and I'm sure you'd feel the same way.

 

[MFL]

It was amusing in a shitbird kinda way. Like watching an oil-slicked pelican struggle to breath.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

I'll admit it's hardly necessary for me to call him out in the way I did, but my dislike for his channel and how he approaches content spiked pretty hard when he took part in a discussion elsewhere on our forums a couple of months ago. While I've since purged the entire thread from the site, I'm confident numerous active users will recount Tyler basically resorting to throwing around pointless subscriber and viewer figures in attempt to somehow prove his content is superior to our own and to much of the community.

Prior to that, I was pretty calm regarding how I discussed and criticised Tyler's activities, but his appearance and general attitude in that thread really ticked me off, and I'm sure you'd feel the same way.

Possibly; but I hope I'd strive to keep that stuff out of how I presented myself on my website. Like I said, you guys do cool stuff, and it sucks to see that work get marred with snipes towards other people in the community, even if those people produce poor content or are otherwise unpleasant.

You're under no obligation to listen to me of course; I just felt like I needed to say something.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

guys let's all be friends and kiss each other with tongue

 

[rikt]

This thread reminded me that I haven't checked VNN recently.

Thanks for that.

 

[Emnu]

Guys he's not a pro journalist or anything. Just let him do what he wants, those who follow him follow him and those who don't don't bother the ones who follow.

 

[Lolcomputer]

I'm confident numerous active users will recount Tyler basically resorting to throwing around pointless subscriber and viewer figures in attempt to somehow prove his content is superior to our own and to much of the community.

I completely understand your frustrations with Tyler and his channel, but perhaps it is time to leave the negative connotations behind?

It doesn't help anybody, and at worst, weakens the community when percieved from VNN's perspective. I would hope we don't wan't to enclose ourselves from other Valve fans just because they come from VNN, and they will most likely see us as an hostile and exclusive group to VNN followers. And I'm not saying that Tyler should not be responsible for the crap he does, but let's keep it open and nuanced right here, so that we welcome VNN fans to ValveTime.

 

[DopeZebra]

man i got to tell him to check his facts and dont say opinions except in reviews. i am a mod and a fan of is channel and twitch and he is a nice guy i just dont want him to be hated and stuff.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

Possibly; but I hope I'd strive to keep that stuff out of how I presented myself on my website. Like I said, you guys do cool stuff, and it sucks to see that work get marred with snipes towards other people in the community, even if those people produce poor content or are otherwise unpleasant.

You're under no obligation to listen to me of course; I just felt like I needed to say something.

I agree with you, but I don't have to reel my feelings in, I genuinely don't have the vitriol that Nick feels. As I've said before, we've been going for 12 years with a good relationship with Valve over the time. We can afford to be magnanimous to someone like Tyler however he needs to appreciate the topic he's covering if he wants to come into this wider community. There are lots of other excellent sites who we strive to keep up with in terms of quality, I don't actually see him as competition. Especially since youtube is only an arm of VT.

I've told Nick several times how he comes across, but ultimately he is his own man and it's best people find their own way from their experiences. TL: DR: He's blocked me on every platform

 

[Omnomnick]

I've told Nick several times how he comes across, but ultimately he is his own man and it's best people find their own way from their experiences. TL: DR: He's blocked me on every platform

Go back to flirting with the coffee lady at EGX.

 

[Rummy]

Hello everyone, I'm no leader of the TF2C team but a developer for it. Now Yesterday. VNN came to us on a server and somewhat said sorry, I think he might (no idea) of have learnt his lesson. But thats out of the question. Thank you valvetime. i'm a big fan of yours and i'll be glad to hear more from you guys. "Hyped" you may say i am. Oh. and Omnomnick, I'm feeding your ego. I won't stop.

 

[Lolcomputer]

VNN came to us on a server and somewhat said sorry, I think he might (no idea) of have learnt his lesson.

He propably did learn his lesson, hence him taking the video down. He apologized both to you and 404, so I don't think he is that dumb.

 

[Acurt1982]

Acurt isn't from Facepunch. I don't know who he is to be honest.

I AM THE MODERN PAUL REVERE

 

[Lolcomputer]

He just did a new video, correcting on his past mistakes. Kudos to him.