Washington creates online service for spanish speaking students

[ComradeBadger]

I'm with Stern on this one.

Minorities are incredibly important.

 

[15357]

I'm with Stern on this one.

Minorities are incredibly important.

be as that may be, the whole of the population should be taken into account.

if the education of minorities effect the education of the greater part of the pop. too much, it should be scraped.

 

[CptStern]

yes but it doesnt ...most of the time there's insufficient funding for these programs and alot of them rely on public donations ...I know cuz that's where 50% of the budget from the school I worked at came from: public donations (fund raising etc)

 

[The Monkey]

it's an online service.. I agree with the fact they should learn English, but IT'S JUST AN ONLINE SERVICE so they won't go away.

Immigrants are the fuel of Modern economies... if you don't attract them you'd be dealing with a populational regression like Europe...

True. If it weren't for immigration, Sweden's population would be dropping. Today the averge age is 41 years old. If it weren't for the imigrants it would be 44.

 

[Edcrab]

being jewish is more than just a religion, it's a culture ...hebrew schools teach hebrew as well as english

I'm fully aware of that- but I'm not entirely sure what teaching children to be bilingual has to do with my point. I'm for multiculturism and all those buzzwords- I just think more people should be taught English, or rather the primary language of the nation their currently residing in. I'm all for ethnic identity, but not to the point that we create a horribly exclusive and seperate segment in a society that's meant to pride itself on its cohesiveness.

Unless Hebrew is the only language being taught (i.e., at home and at school) in some of those communities, in which case, yes, you're quite right, I do think that needs changing too. Although there's every chance they might leave the country afterwards, meaning knowledge of English is a moot point.

And talking of points, SAJ made a good one- but keep in mind that English is one of the most dominant second languages. Hell, there are more Chinese citizens learning to speak English than there are Americans on the whole planet.

Besides, with that logic we Brits should be learning Chinese considering how many immigrants we get ourselves.

...actually, that's a good idea. I wish I'd learned Chinese at school- it'd be more useful than the crappy Italian/French course I was forced to take.

 

[CptStern]

I'm fully aware of that- but I'm not entirely sure what teaching children to be bilingual has to do with my point. I'm for multiculturism and all those buzzwords- I just think more people should be taught English, or rather the primary language of the nation their currently residing in.

I agree, and I'd add that if they want to also take courses in their native language I dont see the problem in that ..as long as they complete the required number of hours necessary for graduation

I'm all for ethnic identity, but not to the point that we create a horribly exclusive and seperate segment in a society that's meant to pride itself on its cohesiveness.

but I'm not advocating that at all ...all I'm saying is that I dont see what's wrong with the program as it only represents part of their education

 

[Edcrab]

Gah!

Why is it then whenever we start agreeing with each other we end up pouring our debating firepower into the wrong targets?

/me readjusts his Politics Cannon

Although it's questionable how much this website really costs (and if it takes anything significant away from worthier programmes), I'm speaking in favour of a multilingual education system in general rather than trying to cite the particular source gh0st introduced.

...I think.

Did I mention Chinese? I want to speak Chinese.

 

[CptStern]

Gah!

Why is it then whenever we start agreeing with each other we end up pouring our debating firepower into the wrong targets?

* Edcrab readjusts his Politics Cannon

see the problem with arguing intelligent trains of thought is that I get confused ...so what the hell were we talking about?

Although it's questionable how much this website really costs (and if it takes anything significant away from worthier programmes), I'm speaking in favour of a multilingual education system in general rather than trying to cite the particular source gh0st introduced.

...I think.

Did I mention Chinese? I want to speak Chinese.

yes chinese ..I want to speak japanese ...just so I can swear while performing l33t kills in dod! "take that you imperalist captalist infidel!"


...again I forgot what we were talking about :E


oh and the mexican government pays for the program :E

 

[SAJ]

I believe we were all responding to the rabid rantings of a bigot-in-waiting who started the ball rolling with:
"Waste of tax dollars? Dissolution of American culture? How about they make a website that teaches english instead. I'm sick and tired of this bullshit about people coming to a country, not bothering to learn the official language, get an education handed to you at the expense of tax payers who are already dealing with this shitty economy, throwing millions of dollars down the drain.

I have nothing against spanish speaking people, or students who want to learn spanish. But how about we actually quit spending money on this bullshit, use it to teach spanish speakers english, and use it to improve our foreign language programs? Hell how about we quit wasting money on this multicultural crap anyway and start making education for AMERICANS better. "

Just marvelous really , as if three hundred years of ethnic cleansing never happened

 

[Gray Fox]

so then we should do away with hebrew schools cuz only a small minority of canadians kids are jewish? what about doing away with other foreign language courses all together?

Yes we should get rid of hebrew schools if the primary language there is not english in a country that has english as the primary language.

That second comment doesn't make any sense, we are here talking about immigrants who come to a country ask asylum, but refuse to learn the language of the country. Courses are for people who want to learn an extra language besides their own, and the country in which you live determines your homelanguage. Are you seriously advocating that immigrants who immigrate in to a country and simply refuse to learn the language of that country should be allowed that. So you don't mind if lets say a couple hunderd of thousands arabs come in to canada, simply refuse to adapt to the culture and learn the language. do that.

Fact is if you do not like the country, do not like the culture, do not like the language, will not learn it, will not contribute to the society, then you can **** off.

 

[CptStern]

Yes we should get rid of hebrew schools if the primary language there is not english in a country that has english as the primary language.

I dont agree ..it's the duty of a government to ensure that ALL citizens have a right to an education ..they dont for the most part fund these schools ..only in part ..I'm not saying they shouldnt learn english ..but who am I to decide what level of education everyone should receive ..it cant be the same across the board ...sure the foundation can be the same but there's nothing wrong with adding to the current curiculun

That second comment doesn't make any sense, we are here talking about immigrants who come to a country ask asylum, but refuse to learn the language of the country.

refugees seek asylum not immigrants ..and who says they're refusing to learn the language, surely they'd realise they cant get very far without learning the language

Courses are for people who want to learn an extra language besides their own, and the country in which you live determines your homelanguage.

who is saying otherwise?

Are you seriously advocating that immigrants who immigrate in to a country and simply refuse to learn the language of that country should be allowed that.

yes, that's their right ..you cant put a gun to their head and force them to learn englis ..school aged children is one thing, but you CANT legislate that all immigrants learn english ..it's just not constitutional

So you don't mind if lets say a couple hunderd of thousands arabs come in to canada, simply refuse to adapt to the culture and learn the language. do that.

There's nothing I could do to stop them ..it will happen regardless of which country I'm in

...americans (or any other group) dont exactly bend over backwards to learn the language when they visit foreign countries ..I mean you cant go to a mexican resort without everything being in english ..I mean they had a freakin Kentucky fried chicken in the heart of Cancun for god's sake ...all in english. I have several business friends who travel extensively ..he says he's embarrased that in every country he goes to every foreign contact he has speaks english yet they'be hard pressed to find anyone from their company that speak the foreign language

Fact is if you do not like the country, do not like the culture, do not like the language, will not learn it, will not contribute to the society, then you can **** off.

please, just go to china town in any major city ...most people speak chinese and I'm sure you'll find some who dont speak english ...that's what multi-culturalism is all about ..if they refuse to learn frankly I couldnt give 2 shits cuz they're only harming themselves

 

[qckbeam]

I believe we were all responding to the rabid rantings of a bigot-in-waiting who started the ball rolling with:

"Waste of tax dollars? Dissolution of American culture? How about they make a website that teaches english instead. I'm sick and tired of this bullshit about people coming to a country, not bothering to learn the official language, get an education handed to you at the expense of tax payers who are already dealing with this shitty economy, throwing millions of dollars down the drain.

I have nothing against spanish speaking people, or students who want to learn spanish. But how about we actually quit spending money on this bullshit, use it to teach spanish speakers english, and use it to improve our foreign language programs? Hell how about we quit wasting money on this multicultural crap anyway and start making education for AMERICANS better. "

Just marvelous really , as if three hundred years of ethnic cleansing never happened

Care to explain how ghost is a "bigot-in-waiting" because he's tired of the way immigration in the United States works? When people come into this country they are supposed to adapt to the American society and American way of life. That’s the way it once was, and the way it should be again. Multilingual education is very costly to the taxpayer and only serves to create a barrier between immigrants and native English speakers. We're morphing into what Theodore Roosevelt called a "tangle of squabbling nationalities". Creating an official language and making sure all immigrants are proficient in speaking it would tear down a cultural barrier and make life easier for all of us.

 

[CptStern]

you're close to the border ..make a trip to toronto ..tell me that multiculturalism doesnt work ...you'll see far more ethnic minorities in toronto than you will in most like sized cities in the world ..yet we have no problem integrating other cultures into our own...The US is a melting pot, canada is a mosaic

 

[kirovman]

you're close to the border ..make a trip to toronto ..tell me that multiculturalism doesnt work ...you'll see far more ethnic minorities in toronto than you will in most like sized cities in the world ..yet we have no problem integrating other cultures into our own...The US is a melting pot, canada is a mosaic

I read someone's dissertation arguing that the US was a 'tossed salad' rather than a melting pot.

If that analogy is comprehensible.

 

[CptStern]

I'm starting to get hungry

 

[SAJ]

Care to explain how ghost is a "bigot-in-waiting"

By all means, yes. I call him a bigot-in-wating because he espouses the viewpoint of an ignorant middle-aged Sun-reader, when in all probability he`s still in school. So if his comments are representative of his opions now, then lord knows what he will sound like in twenty years time.

When people come into this country they are supposed to adapt to the American society and American way of life. That’s the way it once was, and the way it should be again.

I am unaware of this "American way of life" of which you speak, to my knowledge modern America is immigration of foriegn nationals. Which ,by the way, is why I referenced ethnic cleansing, for the only people to have a valid claim to being truly American, have been systematically wiped out and replaced by largely european immigrants.
The descendants of those immigrants now complain about immigration , priceless.

 

[kirovman]

The descendants of those immigrants now complain about immigration , priceless.

Heh, classical example is Micheal Howard, pre-election.

 

[Gray Fox]

No stern, I said the thing about the courses, cause you said that if we don't allow immigrants education in their won language that we should also ban all courses in foreign language. But there is a differance between someone who allready speaks the language of their home country wants to learn an extra language, by taking acourses, and soemone who emigrates to a coutry and refuses to learn the language of that country.
I mean they are the immigrants, why should the US adapt to them, if you do that you'll get chaos. And yes it is the duty of the country to ensure that all citizens have a right to education, and they should, but in the main language(s) of the country that citizen lives in, any language else is extra.

Now I'm assuming they don't want to learn the language if they want schools in their own language, casue the best way to learn the language is to be schooled in it.

And I'm not saying you should put a gun to their head, you should simply deport them to their won country, why not, they don't have any business here if they don't want to adapt to our country.

And once again, there is a diferance between immigrating to a country and going there on a business trip or vacation.

Whats happening in chinatown is wrong, they should also be forced to learn the language, and they are harming the who society, if you have in a country a large group of people who can't get work, because they don't know the language, that is bad for the country. Cause citizen do strain the recources of a country, so the yshould do something in return.

 

[Pogrom]

No stern, I said the thing about the courses, cause you said that if we don't allow immigrants education in their won language that we should also ban all courses in foreign language. But there is a differance between someone who allready speaks the language of their home country wants to learn an extra language, by taking acourses, and soemone who emigrates to a coutry and refuses to learn the language of that country.
I mean they are the immigrants, why should the US adapt to them, if you do that you'll get chaos. And yes it is the duty of the country to ensure that all citizens have a right to education, and they should, but in the main language(s) of the country that citizen lives in, any language else is extra.

Now I'm assuming they don't want to learn the language if they want schools in their own language, casue the best way to learn the language is to be schooled in it.

And I'm not saying you should put a gun to their head, you should simply deport them to their won country, why not, they don't have any business here if they don't want to adapt to our country.

And once again, there is a diferance between immigrating to a country and going there on a business trip or vacation.

Whats happening in chinatown is wrong, they should also be forced to learn the language, and they are harming the who society, if you have in a country a large group of people who can't get work, because they don't know the language, that is bad for the country. Cause citizen do strain the recources of a country, so the yshould do something in return.

There is nothing in the article to say that they are not getting schooled in English. They may be studying maths, history, chemistry etc in Spanish, but it stands to reason they will also be schooled in English. For survival skills if nothing else.

If I had to emigrate to another country (for arguments sake let us say Japan), I think I would like the option of going to school in English. I would still have to study Japanese, but I would not have to study every single subject in Japanese.

I also think it funny that people think immigrants should conform and be assimilated into American 'culture' - as if there is a blanketing uniformity to American culture. I'm not trying to disparage American culture; merely stating that it can't be bandied about like that. I can tell you that American culture varies widely according to region. What were the greatest influences on these regional variations?

Immigration patterns. See below (very much generalised):

Boston - large Irish influence. Many aspects of the Boston accent are similar to the Australian accent, which also has a strong Irish influence.
San Francisco - Strong Chinese culture. Mostly from the Gold Rush days.
New York - Italian, Jewish, amongst others.

There are many more examples. In each of these cases the existing culture was influenced by the incoming culture and vice versa. Why should this not still be an ongoing process?

In regards to harming society - I don't quite follow your point. Citizens don't place a burden upon society. Citizens COMPRISE society. If a Chinese person goes to America and doesn't speak English, it is likely they will find a job with relatives or friends who can speak to them in Chinese. I've seen it here in Sydney with Chinese people, Italians, Armenians etc.

It is not like they go to another country and just sit there, sponging from other citizens.

 

[Gray Fox]

There is nothing in the article to say that they are not getting schooled in English. They may be studying maths, history, chemistry etc in Spanish, but it stands to reason they will also be schooled in English. For survival skills if nothing else.

Well like I said earlier, I don't have anything against that site or what they are doing, I was responding to Cpt. Sterns, and his claim that immigrants should not be forced to learn the language of the country. And the US may have a lot of different coultures, but most od those you mentoned speak english ,what if all of them just didn't want to speak english, then you would have chaoes, having your won culture is fine as long as you speak the language, and adapt yourself to the culture or atleast the law of the country you are living in.

In regards to harming society - I don't quite follow your point. Citizens don't place a burden upon society. Citizens COMPRISE society. If a Chinese person goes to America and doesn't speak English, it is likely they will find a job with relatives or friends who can speak to them in Chinese. I've seen it here in Sydney with Chinese people, Italians, Armenians etc.

It is not like they go to another country and just sit there, sponging from other citizens.

Yes they comptise a society, but they can either put a burden or relieve it, the relieve it when they have a good job, pay there taxes, don't commit crimes. They burden it whne they don't have a job, commit crimes, and do bad stuff. Now the chanses of you not getting a job are a lot higher when you don't know the language, and when you don't have a job the chance of you doing criminal stuff is also bigger, or you live on welfare, and thus burden the state.

But any of that is irrelevant, fact is if you don't give a shit about a country, then why should the country let you in.

 

[Pogrom]

Well like I said earlier, I don't have anything against that site or what they are doing, I was responding to Cpt. Sterns, and his claim that immigrants should not be forced to learn the language of the country. And the US may have a lot of different coultures, but most od those you mentoned speak english ,what if all of them just didn't want to speak english, then you would have chaoes, having your won culture is fine as long as you speak the language, and adapt yourself to the culture or atleast the law of the country you are living in.

In regards to the website - fair enough.

In regards to forcing immigrants to speak the language - I don't quite agree. I believe on their part it is the polite thing to do, and I think that the longer they live here the better they will get in English regardless. But I don't think it should be drafted into law.

Yes they comptise a society, but they can either put a burden or relieve it, the relieve it when they have a good job, pay there taxes, don't commit crimes. They burden it whne they don't have a job, commit crimes, and do bad stuff. Now the chanses of you not getting a job are a lot higher when you don't know the language, and when you don't have a job the chance of you doing criminal stuff is also bigger, or you live on welfare, and thus burden the state.

But any of that is irrelevant, fact is if you don't give a shit about a country, then why should the country let you in.

I don't disagree with you. However, statistically most immigrants are hard workers and commit less crime than natural born Americans. They don't go through the long (and often expensive) process to become an American citizen and then suddenly become indifferent to America once they arrive.

In the 1980s and 1990s researchers have concluded, or at least have lent support to the conclusion, that immigrants commit proportionately no more than and possibly even fewer crimes than native-born citizens. The General Accounting Office, analyzing FBI records, found that foreign-born individuals accounted for about 19 percent of the total arrests in 1985 in six selected major cities.8 The foreign-born represented 19.6 percent of the aggregate population. While "foreign-born" can mean refer to citizens as well as aliens,9 the study makes an implicit case that immigrant crime is in line with the rest of the country.

Source

The article goes on to state that if American-born citizens in the male 18-40 demographic had the same incarceration rate as for immigrants, then the current size of the prison population would be two-thirds the size it is now.

 

[CptStern]

Well like I said earlier, I don't have anything against that site or what they are doing, I was responding to Cpt. Sterns, and his claim that immigrants should not be forced to learn the language of the country. And the US may have a lot of different coultures, but most od those you mentoned speak english ,what if all of them just didn't want to speak english, then you would have chaoes, having your won culture is fine as long as you speak the language, and adapt yourself to the culture or atleast the law of the country you are living in.
.

you cant force someone to learn a new language. Most immigrants are adults; it's far harder to learn a new language when you're an adult than it is when you are young. Yet they still manage somehow. In my experience it's extremely rare to find an immigrant who doesnt speak the language.

It's literally impossible to start a new life in a new country if you dont know the language ...sure staying in your own community can help but you're chances of finding a job are slim to none if you dont speak the native language. I think there's a very small minority of immigrants who refuse to learn the native language, and they're only hurting themselves in the long run. ...oh and I'm not sure how it is in other countries ..but immigrants built canada, without immigration in the earlier part of the century canada wouldnt be where it is today


pogrom:

"The article goes on to state that if American-born citizens in the male 18-40 demographic had the same incarceration rate as for immigrants, then the current size of the prison population would be two-thirds the size it is now"



absolutely brilliant point :thumbs:

 

[Gray Fox]

Thas a good point, and i'm certainly for giving immigrants who want it even better education, I know that a lot of them come there to build up a good live and are willing to work hard for it. Those poeple should be encouraged, and that site is good example of activly trying to help the poeple instead of alianating them. Because they can provide a great service to the country. But I do not believe the host country should have to adopt to them, like by letting a lot of immigrants in, and then when they form a large part of the population and refuse to adapt, adapting to then, like having schools entirly in their language or tv broadcast.
And poeple who do not even want to learn the language, should be forced to so by mean of threat to have them shipped back.

 

[CptStern]

you cant ...it's against basic human rights ..it's discrimination and would never pass into law

 

[Pogrom]

Thas a good point, and i'm certainly for giving immigrants who want it even better education, I know that a lot of them come there to build up a good live and are willing to work hard for it. Those poeple should be encouraged, and that site is good example of activly trying to help the poeple instead of alianating them. Because they can provide a great service to the country. But I do not believe the host country should have to adopt to them, like by letting a lot of immigrants in, and then when they form a large part of the population and refuse to adapt, adapting to then, like having schools entirly in their language or tv broadcast.
And poeple who do not even want to learn the language, should be forced to so by mean of threat to have them shipped back.

And that is what I don't understand. The entire history of America is a story of people coming from overseas, adapting to the local area and being adapted to in turn. Why is it now suddenly a bad thing for society to continue to evolve?

I understand that people going to another country and never interacting with the local culture is a bad thing. But I also consider trying to force people to fit in to be just as bad.

The key word is force.

I know it would be better all round if all immigrants spoke perfect English. It would also be better if all Americans made an effort to understand the culture of their new neighbours.

But you ain't gonna force 'em to do it.

 

[TenaciousPLo]

Speaking of immigration, what do you guys think about these "Minute Men" in Arizona? They are basically white men tracking and hunting mexicans down near the border. These are just ordinary citizens hunting them down.

Edit: http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=1692

 

[CptStern]

nazis?

 

[TenaciousPLo]

Well I dont think so, but theres a link in my last post.

Edit: Heh, but you could see where this action could lead to.

 

[CptStern]

Well I dont think so, but theres a link in my last post.

Edit: Heh, but you could see where this action could lead to.

this is enough to convince me they're noting but a bunch of whackos:

"Located on the campus of the Miracle Valley Bible College, individuals wearing Minuteman nametags posted maps of the border terrain" ...btw when did christianity become the religion of hate and intolerance?


pretty much the same as the KKK but with different uniforms

 

[TenaciousPLo]

For Harter, it is not only the alleged threat of terrorism that he finds disconcerting. He also puts forth the sense that the very quality of what it is to be an American citizen today is at risk. "Some people want to open the borders," Harter said. "But if you do that, then pretty soon what makes this country special will be lost. People keep coming and we’ll be in the minority, and they’ll have more votes than us. And then we’re up a creek."

Yet at the same time, Harker has his pragmatic side. With his church needing extensive renovation, Harter does see a potential role for Mexicans in the US. "I’m not saying that no one can come," he mentioned. "Even now, I couldn’t hire an illegal to work here or I’d get in trouble. If we could give them work permits, then they could come here and help fix up this place," he noted, referring to the Bible College. "And then when the work is done, they go home."

Wow. Hmmn..

 

[Gray Fox]

you cant ...it's against basic human rights ..it's discrimination and would never pass into law

How do you mean, if someone hasn't gotten the citizenship of that country and/or is an illigal immigrant, then he can be shipped back. Especially in the case of economic immigrants. I know it is illegal in the case of war refugees(if the war is still going on), and political asylum seekers.

 

[CptStern]

so does that hold true for refugees? (not those who seek asylum but rather the ones that flee their homelands because of war) what about the mentally handicapped? what about mutes, what about the deaf, or the mentally incapable?

that sort of legislation is unconstitutional in most developed countries

 

[Gray Fox]

No not for refugee of war, the mentally incaple would probably not be returned if they would not get a treatment in their homecountry upon return, the mutes would definatly have to leanr to understand english, the deaf also.

Or you sure it is illegal, cause I hear more then enough cases of people beeing shipped back to their ****ry of origin.

 

[CptStern]

yes but it's usually because they've commited a crime or are there illegally

 

[iyfyoufhl]

i used to know of this hindu guy who was born in US, but couldn't speak any english,
i'm an immigrant myself, and i think it's a resposobility and a sign of respect to learn how to speak in countire's tounge

 

[Mechagodzilla]

As a French Immersion student, I think I can safely say that the widespread option of Spanish immersion in American schools would greatly improve US society.
Some Wiki:

Spanish is the second most common language in the United States, after English, being spoken in some grade by about 27.8 million people (or 10.5% of the population) in 2000. Today Spanish is so widely spoken in the United States that it is generally considered to be either the fourth or the fifth largest Spanish-speaking country in the world (after Mexico, Spain, Colombia and possibly Argentina) ([1] (http://www.prcdc.org/summaries/uspopperspec/uspopperspec.html), [2] (http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues/2002/vol6n45/TargetHispAmer-en.shtml)).

Spanish has a status of official language (along with English) in the state of New Mexico and in Puerto Rico, which is a self-governing unincorporated territory of the United States.

http://www.answers.com/topic/spanish-in-the-united-states
So, basically, Spanish in the US is a direct equivalent to French in Canada. So spanish immersion makes sense.

For fairly obvious reasons, bilingual people are more desirable to employers.
Bilingual kids also grow up better at math, science and grammar, statistically.

And, of course, there's the obvious bonus of being able to understand people from different countries, and even a good percent of your own country.

gh0st was complaining about how awful it would be if less people spoke english.
Wouldn't the solution to that problem just be for him to learn spanish?
Immersion schools would also have the reverse effect of teaching Spanish kids english.

Spanish immersion would make it easier for immigrants to integrate into society and make americans smarter. So it's the win-win.

A big sum-up that was conveniently pre-written for me:
http://www.cal.org/earlylang/benbi1.htm

The solution isn't to force people out and keep things as samey as possible, like the minutemen are doing. It's to adapt to change and get used to it.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

So, basically, Spanish in the US is a direct equivalent to French in Canada. So spanish immersion makes sense.

.

no, french in canada is one of the official launguages, English is the only official launguage in US, i say that Mexicans should learn English and not try to immerge spanish into US

 

[TenaciousPLo]

Mexicans aren't the only spanish speaking people entering the U.S. >_o

 

[iyfyoufhl]

Mexicans aren't the only spanish speaking people entering the U.S. >_o

but they are the majority, a huge one too

 

[Pogrom]

no, french in canada is one of the official launguages, English is the only official launguage in US, i say that Mexicans should learn English and not try to immerge spanish into US

Did you read Mechagodzilla's post? Spanish is one of the official languages in New Mexico, but at a Federal level the US doesn't have an 'official' language.

Other than that, there is nothing I can say that Mechagodzilla hasn't already summed up. There are so many benefits and no obvious downsides.