Watch him squirm...

[Korgoth]

If the only good thing that can come from this is awareness of the inadequacies of our elected officials, then let it be...

the Republican senator leading a Senate investigation into the government's response to Hurricane Katrina called it "woefully inadequate."

The president said he would lead an investigation to find out what happened with the emergency operation, but he resisted growing demands for an immediate probe.

"If our system did such a poor job when there was no enemy, how would the federal, state and local governments have coped with a terrorist attack that provided no advance warning and that was intent on causing as much death and destruction as possible?" said Sen. Susan Collins, a Maine Republican who will lead the investigation by the Senate Homeland Security Committee.

"There will be ample time for people to figure out what went right, and what went wrong. What I'm interested (in) is helping save lives," he said.

The New York Times said Bush's administration was trying to deflect blame to state and local authorities. The White House denied the report.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsA...1Z_01_BAU471101_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-KATRINA-DC.XML

John Breaux, the former Democratic Louisiana senator and close Bush ally, rejected the president's claim that nobody anticipated the failure of the city's levees, saying he talked to Bush about it last year.

Bush partisans went on the offensive. Grover Norquist, the conservative activist with close ties to Karl Rove, blamed the chaos on "looting in a Democratic city run by a Democratic mayor and a Democratic governor."

Its so sad to watch them grab at straws...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9190580/

See my sig, this isn't about political parties, and elections, thats behind us. Bush didn't do his job, and because of his innactions, and because of his poor judgements (giving the FEMA position to a very unqualified, and undeserving man simply for kickbacks) thousands are likely dead... Not because of the storm, but because of the conditions they were forced to suffer through afterwards. We are Americans, we can come together, we should be thinking about our people, not our politicians. This is disgusting on a whole new level.

And if you still want to defend this millionaire scum who obviously hasn't a compasionate bone in his body, then you can go down with the ship. You are the one America will forget in the months to come.

Good day' And God bless the pour souls just south of me.

 

[DreamThrall]

This is disgusting on a whole new level.

And if you still want to defend this millionaire scum who obviously hasn't a compasionate bone in his body, then you can go down with the ship. You are the one America will forget in the months to come.

Good day' And God bless the pour souls just south of me.

:cheers: to that, my friend.

 

[Kebean PFC]

Not because of the storm, but because of the conditions they were forced to suffer through afterwards.

Yes. Nieghboors shooting neighbors.


Please quit tying this to Bush. He isn't f***ing god, yet you act like he should be able to control everything. Yes, he made a mistake, noone knew Katrina was going to hit like it did NOONE.

Good day' And God bless the pour souls just south of me.

QFT

 

[MrWhite]

Yes. Nieghboors shooting neighbors.


Please quit tying this to Bush. He isn't f***ing god, yet you act like he should be able to control everything. Yes, he made a mistake, noone knew Katrina was going to hit like it did NOONE.


QFT

Uhmm... actually alot of people knew it was going to hit like it did, and they knew the levies were going to break.

The weather channel reported it, CNN reported it, even some random lady in a raincoat i saw on the news said so

Bush was well warned, but I also dont think it was entirely his fault though he could have done more.

 

[MjM]

Bush is a mug, if he was a competant leader he could have provided leadership, ... but instead he resisted leaving his ranch ...

 

[baxter]

''What I intend to do is lead a -- to lead an investigation to find out what went right and what went wrong”

''We got to solve problems. We're problem solvers. There'll be ample time for people to figure out what went right and what went wrong."

http://www.boston.com/news/weather/articles/2005/09/07/bush_vows_probe_of_what_went_wrong/

Dear God……as this idiot no idea.
YOU WENT WRONG BUSH.YOU ARE THE BLOODY PROBLEM

 

[Sulkdodds]

Yes, he made a mistake, noone knew Katrina was going to hit like it did NOONE.

Perhaps not, but lots of people knew that the levees were extremely likely to break. They told him, and he cut their funding. The guy in charge of FEMA was entirely the wrong choice. FEMA were turning back supplies two days after the hurricade, not letting them into the disaster area.

And the thing about being the leader of a country is this: EVERYTHING IS YOUR FAULT.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Darn Bush for not taking control of FEMA...apparently that's what he should have done.

Also, way to play the blame game while people are dying. Try to find solutions and not just bash. It's people like you that waste space on the politics forums.

 

[No Limit]

Darn Bush for not taking control of FEMA...apparently that's what he should have done.

Also, way to play the blame game while people are dying. Try to find solutions and not just bash. It's people like you that waste space on the politics forums.

Umm, he does control FEMA. He appointed FEMA leaders, he provides funding for FEMA, and FEMA is under the federal government, which he controls.

 

[Tr0n]

Basically...yes it's partly bushes fault. I believe the whole point is...for you righties (and lefties) is he cancelled funding to protect a major city from a cat 4/5 hurricane. So they (the engineers) was left with shortcomings and could only protect the city from a cat 3 hurricane at max.

So it shows you how much disregard the president has for it's citizens. The money that could've went to protecting that city went to the war.

Understand?

 

[No Limit]

Basically...yes it's partly bushes fault. I believe the whole point is...for you righties (and lefties) is he cancelled funding to protect a major city from a cat 4/5 hurricane. So they (the engineers) was left with shortcomings and could only protect the city from a cat 3 hurricane at max.

So it shows you how much disregard the president has for it's citizens. The money that could've went to protecting that city went to the war.

Understand?

But its much more complicated than that. The funding cuts were just a small part of it. There aren't enough guard troops because of the Iraq war. He didn't get off his vacation 3 days after the fact and didn't really do anything until 5 days after. Then this scum actually took firefighters off the job for his photo op. I can make a list much larger than this of what he didn't do that he should have done but this is enough to make your blood boil if you are not a Bush apologist.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Try to find solutions and not just bash.

What? Try to find solutions for the problems in New Orleans? I thought we were here to discuss politics. :dozey: I don't know about you, but personally I think the government should be handling everything. If they need us on an internet forum to 'try to find solutions' then there's a serious problem.

 

[Tr0n]

They found a solution to protect NO, but bush sent the money else where to do it. :E

 

[Reaktor4]

FEMA were turning back supplies two days after the hurricade, not letting them into the disaster area.

why would they do that?

 

[Sulkdodds]

Hell I don't know.

Ask this guy.

 

[Glirk Dient]

What? Try to find solutions for the problems in New Orleans? I thought we were here to discuss politics. :dozey: I don't know about you, but personally I think the government should be handling everything. If they need us on an internet forum to 'try to find solutions' then there's a serious problem.

What I mean instead of saying "Bush is teh suxor...he eats oil and babies and beats up little kids. WAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE!!!!" we could be finding ways to fix what went wrong so it doesn't happen in the future...you know, make things better.

Oh, maybe this won't mean anything to you lefties, as it proves points. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1479891/posts

Oh...heres another about the levee. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1479843/posts

Now refute them and don't dismiss them as you usually do, if they are so false and biased then you shouldn't have any problem refuting these.

 

[jondy]

Read them both

Admittedly -you're right, to a certain extent, Glirk- local response wasn't perfect. But the first part acknowledges that the govenment's slow response was partly responsible for the scale of the tragedy.

The second has the gall to say that restoring 70m to the budget would have only protected up to Cat3. That's a tad hypocritical; why not push the boat out and upgrade the defenses to handle something that was bound to come within the next ten years

 

[Glirk Dient]

That is the engineers fault, not the presidents. He doesn't decide how to build it.

Note that the National Guard is under control of local government. It took a while for the rest of us to realize the extent of the damage and that lot's of aid from all over was needed. This is due to the fact that the storm rapidly went from cat 1 to cat 5 and caught us by surprise as did what followed. It took a while to realize the damage, then muster the supplies and what was needed and then transport it down there. I believe the response could have been quicker but not by a whole lot considering all of the "surprise" factors.

 

[jondy]

That is the engineers fault, not the presidents. He doesn't decide how to build it.

Don't be facetious; there's a limit to how much can be done with a set budget, and cat3 protection was all that could be implemented with a 70m budget.

 

[Korgoth]

Darn Bush for not taking control of FEMA...apparently that's what he should have done.

Also, way to play the blame game while people are dying. Try to find solutions and not just bash. It's people like you that waste space on the politics forums.

You'd ride his burning stage coach off the side of a cliff wouldn't you? Does it really hurt you to think that maybe top administration officials have made horrendous mistakes, and are more than guilty of negligence, and innaction. If I were to go to work, and do nothing while my machines eploded until three days later, I doubt I'd have a job. Get my point.

Oh and by the way, as mentioned before, he may not be directly in "control" of FEMA, but he does/did appoint its current head of office, and he does/did set FEMA's budget.

And because i'm discussing valid political points on a politics forum, I'm wasting space... Is that because I'm not kissing bush's ass, or is it because I give a damn about my country and the shape its in, and I hold those responsible accountable?

And Just to bat back to you, "Way to play the stick up for Bush at all costs game while people are dying."... How exactly do you want me to find solutions to why Bush and his administration failed to act in a timely manner, and made poor decisions which resulted in the deaths of many, MANY of my fellow country men, my neighbors? My solution is get the scab out of office, whats yours?

 

[baxter]

That is the engineers fault, not the presidents. He doesn't decide how to build it.

Please note the date.

October 2001 issue

CIVIL ENGINEERING
Drowning New Orleans
A major hurricane could swamp New Orleans under 20 feet of water, killing thousands. Human activities along the Mississippi River have dramatically increased the risk, and now only massive reengineering of southeastern Louisiana can save the city

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?ch...58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000&pageNumber=1&catID=2

Please note the date.

In early 2001, at the start of Mr Bush's presidency, his Government's Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) warned that a hurricane hitting New Orleans would be the deadliest of the three most likely catastrophes facing America; the others were a massive San Francisco earthquake and, prophetically, a terrorist attack on New York.
Federal spending on flood control in south-east Louisiana has been cut by almost half since 2001, from $69m (£34.5m) per year to $36.5m. Funds for work at Lake Pontchartrain, the source of the flooding, have fallen by nearly two-thirds over three years, from $14.25m to $5.7m. As a result, work on New Orleans' east bank hurricane levees stopped last summer for the first time in 37 years.

Of course it's the engineers fault, it has to be somebodies fault , anybodies fault, anybodies but.......

 

[Asus]

You can find fault with Bush here but don't put all the the blame on him. There are plenty of other things going wrong and people not doing their job here that were not his fault. I don't get why you guys put it all on him without trying to get facts and a complete picture.

 

[baxter]

You can find fault with Bush here but don't put all the the blame on him. There are plenty of other things going wrong and people not doing their job here that were not his fault. I don't get why you guys put it all on him without trying to get facts and a complete picture.

All you can do is address singular events and from these events the big picture does emerge.
I could quite easily launch into a full blow rant regarding his presidency, listing every single mistake , ranging from the dreadful way the pre 9/11 warning were ignored, to the disastrous events in Iraq, to trying to break this tragedy down into minute detail, but what would be the point ?
The point is that as a European I look on in increasing despair as he lunges from one disaster to another and literally thousands have died for his mistakes.
Whether he will be held to account for his mistakes only time will tell, but mistakes he has made and as the President he is accountable.
He is seen to dragging the US to its knees, making the world a far dangerous place for us all and is now seen as unfeeling or unable to care for his own people.

 

[Tr0n]

Look...it's not fully the presidents fault. We've already said that many times guys.

It's just...90% his fault. :E

 

[Glirk Dient]

Have you people even read the articles I have posted? Obviously not.

 

[mortiz]

Have you people even read the articles I have posted? Obviously not.

You are consistently citing the same sources, biased sources at that. You seem to think that they should try to refute your sources when you don't try to refute theirs, you just say "Look at this" and post a free republic link.

 

[baxter]

Have you people even read the articles I have posted? Obviously not.

I did, I read them both. I kind of lost the will to read any further when I came across this comment

If I am correct, 10's of thousands people died because the democratic party, one more time, was willing to do what ever it takes to make President Bush look bad.. even let a lot of people suffer and die in miserable circumstances.

I really don't know or care anything about republicans or democrats, the lefties or the rights but if this statement is in anyway reflective of your motivation on posting the link, shame on you.
You have pounded on and on about not apportioning blame, lets find solutions and then you post a link to a forum where statements like this are accepted.
If political power play went on and in any contributed to the terrible death toll in New Orleans then lets have the entire truth not biased political point scoring.
Since you are so concerned about people reading your views, have you read my posting, have you in anyway tried to address the points I raised..........emmh no.

EDIT .......Or anybody elses points for that matter ?

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Fact: At least a day before Katrina hit, we all knew it would be bad.

Fact: Reports existed of the levees inability to withstand an extremely powerful storm. The whole lot of them needed work that apparently no one could fund/provide.

Fact: Both local officials and federal officials should be hung out to dry for this and I can't count on one hand how many should be absolutly BLOWN OUT. The response was attrocious.

Solution.

Some serious legislation needs to come out of this.....this government, IMO, has put a price on human life for the last goddam time and look at what happened. Don't think for a second that immediate response doesn't boil down to cash....it does. The "they were too poor to move" excuse is horse-shit.....we have BILLIONS to fight an illegal war but we can't afford to get those less-priveleged out of the way of a goddam super-storm. I agree that they may have been too poor to move themselves, but this country is not too poor to move them. And the federal government is well aware of the horrid poverty situation that exists down there.

FEDERAL government officials should be ready and waiting when a hurricane is bearing down on our own soil. I mean....why were the only people that gave a shit the ones watching this on TV. Aid needs to be in place PRIOR to said hurricane striking. And if the devastation is not too bad then BONUS.....everyone goes home....no harm done....but at least when things go to shit, we're ready and waiting.

Why do we gamble with people's lives?? Who here wants to take the bet that a hurricane will weaken over the warm waters of the gulf? That whole area should have been under some sort of federal alert with the necessary support ready to go. I suspect that legislation of the sort is now waiting on the wings. It's needs to go through.

 

[Korgoth]

Fact: At least a day before Katrina hit, we all knew it would be bad.

Fact: Reports existed of the levees inability to withstand an extremely powerful storm. The whole lot of them needed work that apparently no one could fund/provide.

Fact: Both local officials and federal officials should be hung out to dry for this and I can't count on one hand how many should be absolutly BLOWN OUT. The response was attrocious.

Solution.

Some serious legislation needs to come out of this.....this government, IMO, has put a price on human life for the last goddam time and look at what happened. Don't think for a second that immediate response doesn't boil down to cash....it does. The "they were too poor to move" excuse is horse-shit.....we have BILLIONS to fight an illegal war but we can't afford to get those less-priveleged out of the way of a goddam super-storm. I agree that they may have been too poor to move themselves, but this country is not too poor to move them. And the federal government is well aware of the horrid poverty situation that exists down there.

FEDERAL government officials should be ready and waiting when a hurricane is bearing down on our own soil. I mean....why were the only people that gave a shit the ones watching this on TV. Aid needs to be in place PRIOR to said hurricane striking. And if the devastation is not too bad then BONUS.....everyone goes home....no harm done....but at least when things go to shit, we're ready and waiting.

Why do we gamble with people's lives?? Who here wants to take the bet that a hurricane will weaken over the warm waters of the gulf? That whole area should have been under some sort of federal alert with the necessary support ready to go. I suspect that legislation of the sort is now waiting on the wings. It's needs to go through.

This man speaks the truth!

 

[Glirk Dient]

Put money on a persons life? If by put money on a persons life you mean a giant screw up that shouldn't have happened then that is more accurate. Yes the local government screwed up. yes the federal government screwed up, all I am trying to say is that it's not 100% Bushs fault like so many of you think here.

 

[baxter]

Put money on a persons life? If by put money on a persons life you mean a giant screw up that shouldn't have happened then that is more accurate. Yes the local government screwed up. yes the federal government screwed up, all I am trying to say is that it's not 100% Bushs fault like so many of you think here.

Emmm..........like who, could you point out one post where anybody as said it is 100% Bushs fault ?

 

[CptStern]

It's people like you that waste space on the politics forums.

I'm choking on the irony of it all

 

[Sulkdodds]

Emmm..........like who, could you point out one post where anybody as said it is 100% Bushs fault ?

I shall do him a favour, because I haven't heard anybody do that yet.

BUSH IS TO BLAME, 100%.

 

[jondy]

I shall do him a favour, because I haven't heard anybody do that yet.

BUSH IS TO BLAME, 100%.

It's people like you who waste space on politics forums.










/glirk

 

[Glirk Dient]

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91110

looking at No Limits timeline, I can clearly see where he showed the local officials screw ups, oh wait, he only showed how Katrina was Bush's screw up, he doesn't even mention anyone else? Now, my math may be off, but if the only party he mentions for the Katrina mess is Bush, then doesn't 1 party = 100%?

 

[baxter]

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91110

looking at No Limits timeline, I can clearly see where he showed the local officials screw ups, oh wait, he only showed how Katrina was Bush's screw up, he doesn't even mention anyone else? Now, my math may be off, but if the only party he mentions for the Katrina mess is Bush, then doesn't 1 party = 100%?

It’s all kind of confusing for you isn’t it?

So your logic now is that because somebody doesn’t specify mention anybody else when they condemn an individual, they naturally hold that individual totally responsible i.e. 1= 100%

Sure pal, what ever you say.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Man dient, quit when you're behind.
You're attacking arguments that don't exist with the concentrated ferocity of a retarded bear.

As far as I have been able to tell, nearly everyone involved made mistakes. However, those made by Bush and FEMA were bigger screwups and more disappointing screwups. These were supposedly the people most in control, yet the bulk of the mistakes made rest on their shoulders.
The way I see it, shit rolls downhill. The ineptitude of the president and his FEMA appointee surely hindered the local official's efforts to at least some extent.

 

[Fliko]

Fact: At least a few years before Katrina hit, we all knew it would be bad.

Corrected.

 

[Glirk Dient]

FEMA sent supplies, they were turned back because they didn't want people there to stay and receive help, they wanted them to leave. Yes they all made mistakes, I am just sick of people saying GG Bush for Katrina when they don't understand it doesn't matter what president we have, it would still be a shitty situation.

 

[Raziaar]

FEMA sent supplies, they were turned back because they didn't want people there to stay and receive help, they wanted them to leave. Yes they all made mistakes, I am just sick of people saying GG Bush for Katrina when they don't understand it doesn't matter what president we have, it would still be a shitty situation.

[sarcasm] No way dude, if Clinton were in office during it, he would have fixed all the levees five weeks before the storm was even forecasted , and even if something did go wrong, like a levee breaking... he would have been out there personally rescusing every man woman and child from disaster, leaving no life behind for Katrina to take away. And he'd STILL make it back to the oval office in time to bang an intern or three[/sarcasm]


This isn't your typical anti-clinton thing. I dont care about clinton one way or the other. Just figured like using him in place of anybody else... since he was the previous president.