water and floating in hl2

[mutt]

i did a search, couldnt find anything like it, sorry if its been talked about before.

i was just wondering after play the hl2_techdemo2 map, which was well made by adam(thanks), if when u jump on wood or floating boxes or any item in hl2, if they will float at the same level in the water or go lower in the water because of the extra weight of 'you' if they did that would be amazing for a computer game in my view.

anyone got any ideas or views on this?

bye

 

[Axyon]

They'd sink- Gordon has a weight of about 80kg.

 

[OCybrManO]

Yes.

 

[creationist]

goosh boosh

 

[Headwires]

Originally posted by Abom|nation
They'd sink- Gordon has a weight of about 80kg.

wots that in stones? with a big metal suit 2, he should sink

 

[Sparta]

what is this hl2_techdemo for? isnt it just for normal half-life or cs? im not sure what the point of a map like this would be? Can someone tell me whats with it?

 

[Remedy]

You can download it and find out.
Its pretty cool what Adam does with the HL1 engine.

 

[mutt]

so if u shoot on a raft, which could take your weight, do u recon the boat would lower in the water as it would in real life?

 

[suMe]

Hmm... this makes me wonder that if you're on a boat (small one, rowboat, say), and you pepper the bottom of the boat with a shotgun, would it start leaking? Would it sink? From what it appears with all the wooden "material" properties and all that, it should. I'm sorry if this was demonstrated in a video or something, I only have horrible horrible 56k, so I only got the E3 movie.

 

[Nuclear_Gerber]

Hmm, what abomination said.

though i was wondering, how can a big guy with a HEV suit weight 80kg?

 

[Axyon]

Originally posted by Nuclear_Gerber
Hmm, what abomination said.

though i was wondering, how can a big guy with a HEV suit weight 80kg?

That's what I wondered, too. But as the HEV suit uses battery-powered armour, maybe it's not heavy at all.

 

[Kitarist]

whats this tech demo map about?????? where can i get it? and for which game is it?

 

[Lifthz]

Originally posted by Abom|nation
They'd sink- Gordon has a weight of about 80kg.

:dozey:

density, not weight is the factor that determines if something floats or sinks.

This is why boats float... and this is why most humans float.

In terms of Half Life 2, the HEV should logically cause Gordon to sink I believe. However it's not like the game will have a real density system.

 

[Axyon]

Originally posted by Lifthz
:dozey:

density, not weight is the factor that determines if something floats or sinks.

This is why boats float... and this is why most humans float.

In terms of Half Life 2, the HEV should logically cause Gordon to sink I believe. However it's not like the game will have a real density system.

If Gordon jumped on a wooden box, it may not sink totally, but it would certainly 'drop-down' in the water a little. mutt asked about single planks of wood or a box, not proper boats or rafts, therefore I gave an answer according to that.

 

[StickFigs]

If you're talking about Half-Life 2 physiscs then I would have to say that it would depend on the bouyancy/density of the 'material' used to make the object.

 

[Asus]

Yeah I doubt it has a density system.
But each thing has its own properties. So wood would have a density assigned to it and would act like it should. etc

 

[OCybrManO]

Originally posted by Lifthz
density, not weight is the factor that determines if something floats or sinks.

This is why boats float... and this is why most humans float.

In terms of Half Life 2, the HEV should logically cause Gordon to sink I believe. However it's not like the game will have a real density system.

Why does everyone assume they know how heavy the HEV suit is?
In HL1 it doesn't appear to hinder his movement much, if any.

The old 'gordon' model looks like the suit is made mostly from a rigid plastic-like material (possibly some high-tech polymer that is as strong as steel and as light as plastic... which is close to an actual material in development) with a rubber-like material to allow flexibility in the joint areas... which would make it pretty light.

Ask the Valve guys... I'm just guessing.

 

[StickFigs]

I hope the physics are complex enough to determine how much wood there is and how it should act. Becuase a HUGE block of wood shouldn't act like a small square of wood.

That also makes me bring up the possiblilites of the bouyancy being dependant on the shape... such as a boat shaped wooden object would float better than a ball of wood.

 

[VoidWraith]

If I recall correctly, there is a density system involving mass and volume... but it could also be based purely on material properties.. Buouyancy would be derived from the property of the object (some things sink faster than others).

About that boat, no, riddling the bottom of it with holes from a gun wouldn't cause it to sink. Bulletholes are just decals, not actual holes, and water cannot be moved (this is a guess... since if you have say an above-ground pool made of breakable wood, and break the wood, the water wouldn't spill out in Source).

 

[Delgarto]

Lifthz? The same Lifthz on the IGN PC boards? The same one that will die saying Stalker is better than HL2?


Anywho, I wish a company would actually go all out for water. Like give it actual water properties. If you take a bucket, fill it with water out of a pool, and take it to another pool, eventually the one pool would be almost drained and the other full. That would be sweet.

 

[InsaneFool]

but in order to do such a thing, you'd need to make each individual particle of water....at least thats the only way I can see that being done.

 

[Delgarto]

They'll just have to come up with an amazing particle system or molecule system that we haven't even thought of. But it could be good.

 

[Crusader]

There IS a density system, I am sure I read something about the barrels in the water sinking when they were shot at, but I might be mistaken. That would certainly be something directly coded, if that was true, not an effect of the physics system. And Gabe definitely said that wooden boards will sink deeper into the water if something heavy-ish is on them.

 

[mutt]

From me:
Hey Gabe,
If a wooden board is floating in the water and you jump onto it, will it slowly sink? thanks for your time. Great job on HL2!

From Gabe:
yes

just found that in the offical valve info thread,
this is real cool in my view, never seen stuff like this before.
i look forward to designing my of rafts and stuff, then smashing them up muhauhauha, and every other object i can reach!!!

 

[Raziaar]

What would be absolutely awesome is if when he jumped on it from afar, it'd move through the water with his momentum before completely stopping...

 

[FictiousWill]

yay - half-life 2 jetski mod. combining my dislike of water with the fun of hl2. That makes me think, though. Will there be boats in HL2? I don't see why not.

 

[Mr Neutron]

Originally posted by StickFigs
That also makes me bring up the possiblilites of the bouyancy being dependant on the shape... such as a boat shaped wooden object would float better than a ball of wood.

You're refferring to displacement--essentially, how much surface is pushing down on the water.

 

[mutt]

Originally posted by Raziaar
What would be absolutely awesome is if when he jumped on it from afar, it'd move through the water with his momentum before completely stopping...

yeah then u could make a big pool with a wave machine and some surf boards. sounds good, but i dont hold much hope seems to complexe to cover all these different things in one engine.

but maybe.

 

[nw909]

Originally posted by mutt
yeah then u could make a big pool with a wave machine and some surf boards. sounds good, but i dont hold much hope seems to complexe to cover all these different things in one engine.

but maybe.

HL-2 does use momentum, I think i'll be trying that with the sdk.

 

[Raziaar]

bah... A game doesn't replace a freaking wave machine at waterparks! Like the one in raging waters california... ahh, the joy.

 

[Saxywolf]

Gordon exerts a force downward on the wood just as the (more complex & CPU intensive) physics for wheels.

However, do other objects exert a similar force downward?

If Gordon stands on a wood box, it will sink slightly. But! Will putting a barrel on a wood box also cause it to sink?

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If you shoot a hole in a container of water, it will not leak out. Water deformation is not taken into account.

To make large waves, (unless there is a special function for waves and I hope there is) you may have to make moving water, tho I do not know (yet) if you can.

---------------------------------------------------

Careful when making boats. From what I've read the water will clip through it. Objects use displacement, specific gravity,... to calculate bouyancy but do not actually displace the water. I don't remember seeing ripples either...

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Bouyancy and (most likely) stability are taken into account in the engine physics.

uh... I can't link to my mathmatical description of bouyancy so... I won't. If anyone is interested, I'll copy the info to this thread.

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EDIT: Hrm... I was re-reading over thread on other sites and someone posted a link to a pic that shows several barrels causing a wooden pallete to lean in the water. (The barrels were all on one side.) This leads me to believe that objects DO exert a force downward on other object in the water and is accounted for in the physics engine.

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[donkeyhumper]

Originally posted by Saxywolf
mathmatical description of bouyancy so... I won't. If anyone is interested...

nobody should be allowed to be interestedin the mathematical description of bouyancy! :dork:

i guess we need some people who do so we can like have good games and build boats and that lark :cheese:

 

[Chode]

For the first time in my life, I regret sleeping through the whole year of Physics in high school.... it probably would have come in handy in about 6 months (guessed release date of the game)

 

[BuddMan]

Couldn't they just write a script saying that if Gordon shoots the bottom of the boat then water starts leaking in? And by water I don't mean the actual water he is floating on, but make it appear that water is flooding the boat (and it slowly sink).

 

[Saxywolf]

hehe, no worries Chode. I learned this stuff in Fluid Mechanics... not Phyics 1, 2, 3, or 4.

 

[Athlon7]

I have tested this with half a boat, it does indeed sink lower, I think ; ) lol. Hard to say really!

 

[Lavrik]

If u wana go see a boat sinking go out into ocean on raft and shoot bottom with shotgun,watch show.If u wana see barrel leaking then go shoot a barrel with shotgun in real life , watch show.

 

[NSPIRE]

^^ Super-duper informative post by Lavrik! Lets all give him a round of applause!

*Hits forehead*

 

[Cheetarah654]

gordon is a porker

 

[dr_rat]

Originally posted by Headwires
wots that in stones?

80 kilograms = 12.5978436 stones