Weapon Errors

I can see how this would annoy someone who knows a lot about guns but it doesn't annoy me because i know nothing about guns. I've never even touched a gun.

In terms of pointing out things that aren't 100% realstic we could go on forever about it, but it's a game. We play it to escape reality.
 
Woah 2630 posts??.... Hm.... why doesn't this site get rid of the Hydra thing for ppl with lotsa posts and just have like Gordon or something..... because isn't the Hydra not in the game anymore...
 
Yogibbear said:
Woah 2630 posts??.... Hm.... why doesn't this site get rid of the Hydra thing for ppl with lotsa posts and just have like Gordon or something..... because isn't the Hydra not in the game anymore...
Click to expand...
lol your damn right!
 
Yogibbear said:
Woah 2630 posts??.... Hm.... why doesn't this site get rid of the Hydra thing for ppl with lotsa posts and just have like Gordon or something..... because isn't the Hydra not in the game anymore...
Click to expand...

Probably because there are people who have nearly 10000 posts on these forums in just a bit over a year =/

the 2k-3k range is lightweights compared to some of these guys that post 20 times a day, every single day, for the entire time they existed here, or a makeup throughout the course of time that equals that amount.
 
Erm, i dont really see where your going with the USP arguement but erm yeh . . .

And for the PDW, it is certainly the PDW that gordon uses, and i dont think 5 rounds really matters, he could just have an extended magazine. Remember this is JUST a game, and its set 15-20 years into the future. Dont be such a little bitch.

iF.
 
Raziaar said:
Probably because there are people who have nearly 10000 posts on these forums in just a bit over a year =/

the 2k-3k range is lightweights compared to some of these guys that post 20 times a day, every single day, for the entire time they existed here, or a makeup throughout the course of time that equals that amount.
Click to expand...

Hm..... i wish i had made 10000000 posts....... :sniper:
 
This is a game where the world has been invaded by aliens, people turn into zombies, the beaches are crawling with ant like aliens, the world has been pretty much destroyed, the cities are now ruled by mysterious gasmasked soldiers, controlled from a huge metal tower that eats its way through the city, where they use weapons like the pulse rifle and the manipulator, where you have to look out for 15 m tall Striders.... and this guy is talking about weapo errors :x
 
not read the other posts but my opinion...

maybe its to balance the weapons?
 
MilkMan12 said:
Wait hold on, how are you guys responding to this? Am I the only one who really didnt understand what the hell he was trying to say in his post? I read the whole thing twice, and he says the USP has 18 bullets in it and in real life it can carry 18 bullets, but the mp7 has 45 and in real life it will have 45... and your point? The game is copying real life guns?
P.S. Im not being mean, or harsh, i really do not understand what he is trying to say lol. :monkee:
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking! I don't know if he is complaining or pointing out the accuracy of the game??

What is he talking about?? :x
 
first of all it IS a mp7-PDW and it's based on real life guns they don't really care about realism as much as balancing :)
 
But is giving the gun 5 less rounds in each magazine to make it match the real life counter part really going to have a large enough effect to change gameplay?
 
Quite possibly. Balancing isn't necessarily something where they say "Hey, let's add five more bullets! That oughta make the game play better!".

Often the adjusting of internal variables may be done through a "homing" process of trial and error. Say that gun X has a ten round magazine, in accordance with its real-world counterpart. Playtesters report that they find themselves reloading when surrounded by and dangerously close to the exact type of enemies that that weapon's fire works best against.

The developers might, for instance, double the capacity of the magazine to 20, which will most likely unbalance it in the other direction and make it too easy, so they then, after such reports from playtesters, clip it back down to 15. They might then further alter it to maybe 12/13 or 17/18, depending on feedback.

Basically, fun > realistic portrayal of weapons, unless of course the realism is key to the gameplay, as in some uberrealistic military simulation (America's Army is supposed to be like that, isn't it?).
 
Looks like i better explain where I am coming from before I continue.

I am a bit of a gun nut. I like to think I know quiet a bit about guns and enjoy researching them/shooting them. Its pretty fun and I would encourage anyone to try it at least once in their life time.

When I first started playing HL1 I was like "is this supposed to be an MP5 with a 50 round magazine and an m203 (grenade launcher) on it? THATS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE!" This bugged me quiet a bit. I would say that too a certian degree it hurt the immersive experiance because everytime I fired it, it felt wrong.

In HL1 They could have very easily had the marines use M16s or M4s with M203s on them. That would have been accurate (minues the 50 round magazines, M16s/M4s only have 30) but I would have enjoyed it a lot more. It wouldn't have been a big deal on valve's part. Just change out a model and minues 20 rounds on the magazine. It wouldn't have hurt gameplay one bit. On the plus side, it would have helped, people like me, feel more immersed since the weapons would be more accurate.

When I saw the first videos for HL2 I was like "is that an MP7?! swwet!" Being an H&K fan I was pretty excited. The MP7 is an excellent choice for HL2. It is calssified as a PDW (personal defense weapon) and uses a small bullet to achieve high penertration in body armor (at shorter distances mind you). It is the perfect weapon agains the combine. There ARE errors with it though. (1) it has 45 rounds in HL2 although it DOES NOT have an extended magazine and even with an extended magazine it only gets to 40 rounds (2) it has two barrels..... ooook why? the real MP7 doesn't have 2 barrels... and worst of all (3) I have "heard" that the secondary fire will be ANOTHER grenade style attack. Once again this isn't possible with such a small gun. Then I noticed the USP Match (in many of the HL2 videos as well) and was annoyed. Match pistols are not designed for combat. They require very fine tuning, careful handling and are very expensive to own and operate. No military in their right mind would equip their soldiers with them. The same mistake was done in Tomb Raider where they ignored function and went for form, they wanted a cool looking gun over a realistic gun. Not to mention there IS an magazine error in the HL2 USP Match pistol. The USP match standard magazine carries 15 rds (in 9mm), 13 rds (in .40) and 12 rds ( in .45). Any number above that requires an extended clip. Look in the videos, do you see an extended clip? I don't. Once again, I think they could have easily replaced the model with a different gun, such as an H&K P9, which is a very common handgun among police/military units in europe (where this game is placed from what I understand). The Beretta 92FS would also be a good candidate considering (1) many people recognize it (2) it has 15 round magazine, close to 18 (3) it is also a common military/police weapon.

Like I and a few others have already said, the "its the future, stfu, nothing is realistic, games aren't realistic" argument is worthless. Why? Because look at HL2, many of it's locals and enviroments are setup to be as realistic to modern day as possible. They obviously tried to mimic some modern day guns but did a mediocre job at it. When I get HL2 and play it, those errors are going to stand out to me and bug me every time I fire my gun.

Sure there are some "fun" guns such as the incindrary rifle (spelling?) and I have no problem with that. They don't exist so I have no expectations for it. I have no problems with guns like the Gluon and Gauss, they are fake and just plain fun.

Anyhow, this post is already too long ......... the main idea is that : I like guns, HL2 guns not accurate, takes some of the immersiveness out of HL2 for me and probably a few others

EDIT : I forgot to cover game balance. If games were more realistic, they would be balanced. Brain Damage brought out that if the play testers are in an situation where they are reloading too much, they will increase the magazine size. If it was realistic, for example, those 10 rounds would kill 8-10 bad guys. Whats wrong with that? As for on your end, since your wearing body armor AND your aiming for their head vs. them aiming for your chest you can kill them much faster. A good kevlar vest with a user wearing it can withstand over 20 shots directly to the chest with a 9mm handgun.
 
Brian Damage said:
Quite possibly. Balancing isn't necessarily something where they say "Hey, let's add five more bullets! That oughta make the game play better!".

Often the adjusting of internal variables may be done through a "homing" process of trial and error. Say that gun X has a ten round magazine, in accordance with its real-world counterpart. Playtesters report that they find themselves reloading when surrounded by and dangerously close to the exact type of enemies that that weapon's fire works best against.

The developers might, for instance, double the capacity of the magazine to 20, which will most likely unbalance it in the other direction and make it too easy, so they then, after such reports from playtesters, clip it back down to 15. They might then further alter it to maybe 12/13 or 17/18, depending on feedback.

Basically, fun > realistic portrayal of weapons, unless of course the realism is key to the gameplay, as in some uberrealistic military simulation (America's Army is supposed to be like that, isn't it?).
Click to expand...

That's all true, but the thing is, it seems like that type of approach would be more aimed towards Grenade launchers, the Gauss gun, etc. Those typically have a much more limited ammunition capacity. 5rds in the basic SMG isn't going to make that much of a difference IMO. 10 or 20rds would, but 5? :upstare:
 
LeXo5 said:
Like I and a few others have already said, the "its the future, stfu, nothing is realistic, games aren't realistic" argument is worthless. Why? Because look at HL2, many of it's locals and enviroments are setup to be as realistic to modern day as possible.
Click to expand...
That's because the setting is Earth, just an alternate reality Earth. Much will be the same and much will be different. Weapons are one of the things that are different in this alternate reality. I really don't see why it's so hard to believe that just maybe in another dimension people decided to use a slightly different magazine size.
 
I don't really care about the realism of the gun. If it shoots and kills it's good.
 
Originally Posted by Ownzed
I don't really care about the realism of the gun. If it shoots and kills it's good.
Click to expand...

Exactly! :D
 
LeXo5 said:
well ... just in case you need it ... this is the "product pages" for it http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/st...&sw_activeTab=1 for all their guns chambered in 500
Click to expand...
I actually spent 5 hours looking for referance images a couple days ago... So I have seen that. Thanks for the thought though...
That site does have a nice Quicktime 3d video thingy. that'll come in handy. :E

like the 500 mag.? check out this neat video (~3.5meg) of it being fired in slow-motion. cool. :cool:

f|uke said:
Man, I cant believe all the people bitching about this guy making a point.

Some of you seriously need to STFU.

If this guy wants to take issue with the lack of continuity, I say LET HIM. We all know that HL2 is geared towards total immersion. This is what makes HL2 so f'n great. So if gun hobbiests are pulled out of the game by these innacuracys, it is a legitamate gripe.

The only one who made a real point against him is Pi Mu Rho, who explayed WHY its innaccurate instead of giving the bullshit "its just a game" response.

I am not into guns, and do not have a clue how they compare to real weapons. But as a fan of pure realism as a gateway to immersion, I think this post is a valuable contribution to the forum.

Stupid flamers.
Click to expand...
QFE. Thx f|uke. :thumbs:

Mr-Fusion said:
I can see how this would annoy someone who knows a lot about guns but it doesn't annoy me because i know nothing about guns. I've never even touched a gun.
Click to expand...
I get this... However, for those of us who have, it can be a bit of an anooyance (for myself a minor and forgettable one) when there are obvious innacuracies. Some may call it artistic license, or gameplay balancing, or "OMG u fkcing lUsEr its just a GAME KTHXBYE!" But to some, it's a lack of research and a lack of attention to detail.

Me, I don't care much. It is a game. I like to consider that Gordon knows his guns and made some nice after-market modifications :D

But I watched a gun-modelling-tutorial, and was bugged that the modeller didn't know the names of or functions of many of the parts of the gun. He kept refering to the slide of a pistol as a "stock" and the hammer as a "thingy" (no offense dude, great tut. :))
Not a biggie, but there's nothing wrong with attempting to be accurate and knowing what you are working on...

LeXo5 said:
Match pistols are not designed for combat. They require very fine tuning, careful handling and are very expensive to own and operate. No military in their right mind would equip their soldiers with them.
Click to expand...
Not to deminish the significance of your point, but Gordon is not an army grunt. He can choose his weapons, and they can be impractical as he wants. I'm assuming the G-man does not follow a regulations manual ;)

Ownzed said:
I don't really care about the realism of the gun. If it shoots and kills it's good.
Click to expand...
Ok, fine, what if they made it fluorescent and looked like a supersoaker. Good enough, right? If it shoots and kills?
Maybe for some of you that sould be fine... But if a gun looks like a certain gun, is called a certain gun, but doesn't fuction like that gun, this is a discongruity that some might find distracting.

Oh, and to me, the gameplay of the Clancy series of games (rainbow six, rogue spear) can probably be considered more realistic, but I didn't consider it to be more fun than HL. I hear similar sentiments about that US Army -made game. I don't want realistic games as such. But pretending isn't always a bad thing either.
 
Well, it is true that yes, a USP Match holds up 18 rounds on 9mm. But the "sprite" for the bullets are longer, and IIRC, the MP7 (It's not called a PDW, it was only called that during prototype stages, the full name is "MP7-PDW") can hold up to 20 or 40 rounds.

Then again, as everyone and their grandma in the topic has says, "It's not about realism."
 
I want a gun that shoots hippies and a secondary fire that shoots rocket propelled OMFGWTFBBQIR1337s.
 
Barbeque? I'm all for anything that has even a hint of being able to fire rocket propelled Barbeque... whatever.
 
LeXo5 said:
Looks like i better explain where I am coming from before I continue.

I am a bit of a gun nut. I like to think I know quiet a bit about guns and enjoy researching them/shooting them. Its pretty fun and I would encourage anyone to try it at least once in their life time.

When I first started playing HL1 I was like "is this supposed to be an MP5 with a 50 round magazine and an m203 (grenade launcher) on it? THATS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE!" This bugged me quiet a bit. I would say that too a certian degree it hurt the immersive experiance because everytime I fired it, it felt wrong.

In HL1 They could have very easily had the marines use M16s or M4s with M203s on them. That would have been accurate (minues the 50 round magazines, M16s/M4s only have 30) but I would have enjoyed it a lot more. It wouldn't have been a big deal on valve's part. Just change out a model and minues 20 rounds on the magazine. It wouldn't have hurt gameplay one bit. On the plus side, it would have helped, people like me, feel more immersed since the weapons would be more accurate.

When I saw the first videos for HL2 I was like "is that an MP7?! swwet!" Being an H&K fan I was pretty excited. The MP7 is an excellent choice for HL2. It is calssified as a PDW (personal defense weapon) and uses a small bullet to achieve high penertration in body armor (at shorter distances mind you). It is the perfect weapon agains the combine. There ARE errors with it though. (1) it has 45 rounds in HL2 although it DOES NOT have an extended magazine and even with an extended magazine it only gets to 40 rounds (2) it has two barrels..... ooook why? the real MP7 doesn't have 2 barrels... and worst of all (3) I have "heard" that the secondary fire will be ANOTHER grenade style attack. Once again this isn't possible with such a small gun. Then I noticed the USP Match (in many of the HL2 videos as well) and was annoyed. Match pistols are not designed for combat. They require very fine tuning, careful handling and are very expensive to own and operate. No military in their right mind would equip their soldiers with them. The same mistake was done in Tomb Raider where they ignored function and went for form, they wanted a cool looking gun over a realistic gun. Not to mention there IS an magazine error in the HL2 USP Match pistol. The USP match standard magazine carries 15 rds (in 9mm), 13 rds (in .40) and 12 rds ( in .45). Any number above that requires an extended clip. Look in the videos, do you see an extended clip? I don't. Once again, I think they could have easily replaced the model with a different gun, such as an H&K P9, which is a very common handgun among police/military units in europe (where this game is placed from what I understand). The Beretta 92FS would also be a good candidate considering (1) many people recognize it (2) it has 15 round magazine, close to 18 (3) it is also a common military/police weapon.

Like I and a few others have already said, the "its the future, stfu, nothing is realistic, games aren't realistic" argument is worthless. Why? Because look at HL2, many of it's locals and enviroments are setup to be as realistic to modern day as possible. They obviously tried to mimic some modern day guns but did a mediocre job at it. When I get HL2 and play it, those errors are going to stand out to me and bug me every time I fire my gun.

Sure there are some "fun" guns such as the incindrary rifle (spelling?) and I have no problem with that. They don't exist so I have no expectations for it. I have no problems with guns like the Gluon and Gauss, they are fake and just plain fun.

Anyhow, this post is already too long ......... the main idea is that : I like guns, HL2 guns not accurate, takes some of the immersiveness out of HL2 for me and probably a few others

EDIT : I forgot to cover game balance. If games were more realistic, they would be balanced. Brain Damage brought out that if the play testers are in an situation where they are reloading too much, they will increase the magazine size. If it was realistic, for example, those 10 rounds would kill 8-10 bad guys. Whats wrong with that? As for on your end, since your wearing body armor AND your aiming for their head vs. them aiming for your chest you can kill them much faster. A good kevlar vest with a user wearing it can withstand over 20 shots directly to the chest with a 9mm handgun.
Click to expand...
....... You are bitching about a f***ing game...it's...just.....a...game....i know ALOT of people who are gun nuts, and they NEVER complain about the realism of a gun in a game or movie...you and others are just trying to find things to complain about, i'm sorry, but this is an extremely useless thread...
 
L337_Assasain said:
....... You are bitching about a f***ing game...it's...just.....a...game....i know ALOT of people who are gun nuts, and they NEVER complain about the realism of a gun in a game or movie...you and others are just trying to find things to complain about, i'm sorry, but this is an extremely useless thread...
Click to expand...
I find your post far more "useless" than his.
 
I recomend Rainbowsix:3 if you want realism (though i like realism) i don't care about realism in hl2, though realism is never wrong
 
Bait said:
I want a gun that shoots hippies and a secondary fire that shoots rocket propelled OMFGWTFBBQIR1337s.
Click to expand...

Haha...

Realism? Realism? You think HL2 is supposed to be a realistic kind of a game???

HL2 has aliens from another planet, and all you want in HL2 is realism???

What. In. The. Heck.!?
 
Phisionary said:
I find your post far more "useless" than his.
Click to expand...
I guess you're right...these guys complaining just make me so mad...wait...i'm complaining, i've reached quite a conundrum...*runs off crying*
 
Phisionary said:
I find your post far more "useless" than his.
Click to expand...

Nah not really. The other post scored at least a bacon on my 1 to walrus scale of uselessness. That's pretty high.

Didn't it ever occur to you gun nuts that this stuff was done for balancing? For example, lets take the MP5/M203 of HL1, a 30 round magazine would've severely hurted its usefulness, many monsters required a full clip (minus some bullets that missed) to kill them. And no attached grenade launcher would make you switch to other weapons, which would be annoying. Valve didn't try to mimic weapons, so you can't do a mediocre job at it if you're not attempting it. They simply choose the gun because it looked cool, that's the only thing that matters. Both the Match and MP7 looked cool, so they picked it, and adapted them for HL2. Simple isn't it?

And to throw some more shit into the fan: the "MP7" doesn't have a 45 round but 60 round clip. :D
And they took the scope off of the OICW (which in real life, makes up most of the gun and its purpose). :LOL:
 
*sigh*

why does there have to be so much hate? :(

can't we all just..... get along??
 
Why is this still going on......

The guns rule. So what if their real-life counterparts have a slightly smaller/larger mag or whatever. HL2 will still boot us in the ball and we'll still ask for more.

Please, refer to my post about the hippie gun before posting weapon critisisms.
 
LeXo5 said:
Looks like i better explain where I am coming from before I continue.

I am a bit of a gun nut. I like to think I know quiet a bit about guns and enjoy researching them/shooting them. Its pretty fun and I would encourage anyone to try it at least once in their life time.

When I first started playing HL1 I was like "is this supposed to be an MP5 with a 50 round magazine and an m203 (grenade launcher) on it? THATS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE!" This bugged me quiet a bit. I would say that too a certian degree it hurt the immersive experiance because everytime I fired it, it felt wrong.

In HL1 They could have very easily had the marines use M16s or M4s with M203s on them. That would have been accurate (minues the 50 round magazines, M16s/M4s only have 30) but I would have enjoyed it a lot more. It wouldn't have been a big deal on valve's part. Just change out a model and minues 20 rounds on the magazine. It wouldn't have hurt gameplay one bit. On the plus side, it would have helped, people like me, feel more immersed since the weapons would be more accurate.

When I saw the first videos for HL2 I was like "is that an MP7?! swwet!" Being an H&K fan I was pretty excited. The MP7 is an excellent choice for HL2. It is calssified as a PDW (personal defense weapon) and uses a small bullet to achieve high penertration in body armor (at shorter distances mind you). It is the perfect weapon agains the combine. There ARE errors with it though. (1) it has 45 rounds in HL2 although it DOES NOT have an extended magazine and even with an extended magazine it only gets to 40 rounds (2) it has two barrels..... ooook why? the real MP7 doesn't have 2 barrels... and worst of all (3) I have "heard" that the secondary fire will be ANOTHER grenade style attack. Once again this isn't possible with such a small gun. Then I noticed the USP Match (in many of the HL2 videos as well) and was annoyed. Match pistols are not designed for combat. They require very fine tuning, careful handling and are very expensive to own and operate. No military in their right mind would equip their soldiers with them. The same mistake was done in Tomb Raider where they ignored function and went for form, they wanted a cool looking gun over a realistic gun. Not to mention there IS an magazine error in the HL2 USP Match pistol. The USP match standard magazine carries 15 rds (in 9mm), 13 rds (in .40) and 12 rds ( in .45). Any number above that requires an extended clip. Look in the videos, do you see an extended clip? I don't. Once again, I think they could have easily replaced the model with a different gun, such as an H&K P9, which is a very common handgun among police/military units in europe (where this game is placed from what I understand). The Beretta 92FS would also be a good candidate considering (1) many people recognize it (2) it has 15 round magazine, close to 18 (3) it is also a common military/police weapon.

Like I and a few others have already said, the "its the future, stfu, nothing is realistic, games aren't realistic" argument is worthless. Why? Because look at HL2, many of it's locals and enviroments are setup to be as realistic to modern day as possible. They obviously tried to mimic some modern day guns but did a mediocre job at it. When I get HL2 and play it, those errors are going to stand out to me and bug me every time I fire my gun.

Sure there are some "fun" guns such as the incindrary rifle (spelling?) and I have no problem with that. They don't exist so I have no expectations for it. I have no problems with guns like the Gluon and Gauss, they are fake and just plain fun.

Anyhow, this post is already too long ......... the main idea is that : I like guns, HL2 guns not accurate, takes some of the immersiveness out of HL2 for me and probably a few others
Click to expand...

I think the only thing I can say to this is that the game was neither made by gun nuts, nor for gun nuts.

LeXo5 said:
EDIT : I forgot to cover game balance. If games were more realistic, they would be balanced. Brain Damage brought out that if the play testers are in an situation where they are reloading too much, they will increase the magazine size. If it was realistic, for example, those 10 rounds would kill 8-10 bad guys. Whats wrong with that? As for on your end, since your wearing body armor AND your aiming for their head vs. them aiming for your chest you can kill them much faster. A good kevlar vest with a user wearing it can withstand over 20 shots directly to the chest with a 9mm handgun.
Click to expand...

A: It's not meant to be realistic. The enemies are likely to be zombies or giant insectoid aliens, f'rinstance. You're running around in a sort of super radiation suit that somehow turned out to be really good at stopping bullets. You've been whipped ten years into the future.

B: The number of bad guys those ten rounds can kill is entirely dependant on the sort of bad guy. It might be wasteful, for instance, to use them against headcrabs if they were too powerful. If one headcrab has ten points of health, and the bullets do thirty points of damage, then using one on a headcrab would waste twenty points of possible damage. So they keep the damage low and the fire rate high, so that it can be used on a couple of different enemies.

C: Not everyone remembers to aim for their heads.

D: I certainly know that I couldn't aim straight while being shot in the chest repeatedly with a 9mm handgun, even if wearing a kevlar vest. I'm pretty sure most other people couldn't either. A HEV suit might be slightly different...

E: It's BRIAN. Sheesh.

Joe said:
That's all true, but the thing is, it seems like that type of approach would be more aimed towards Grenade launchers, the Gauss gun, etc. Those typically have a much more limited ammunition capacity. 5rds in the basic SMG isn't going to make that much of a difference IMO. 10 or 20rds would, but 5? :upstare:
Click to expand...

Well, you'd think so, but that's not my experience... balancing can turn up some really weird and funky stuff. 5 rounds might just give the game that little extra touch in just the right place...
 
GuNzABlaZiN said:
Ever heard of extended or high capacity magazines?
Click to expand...

Yes, but the only high-capacity magazines are 40 round ones. My points was, how can we be sure it's an MP7 at all, Valve has never said that, to my knowledge.
 
shatteredmind said:
Nine millimeter USP Matches can come with 18 round magazines. If you watch the videos closely you will see that Gordon often appears to have 18 rounds in his USP Match. I would imagine that it has at least an 18 round capacity, and that it probably has exactly an 18 round capacity.

Go here and scroll down to where they list the statistics.

http://www.hkpro.com/uspmatch.htm

And a picture with 18 rounds in the pistol is here.

http://media.pc.ign.com/media/492/492830/img_2389844.html


Additionally, the submachine gun does not appear to me to be a PDW. Not only does it appear to have a 45 round capacity (you've stated correctly that PDW magazines come in 20 and 40 round capacities), but additionally it's much too large.

Information on and pictures of the PDW can be found here.

http://www.hkpro.com/pdw.htm

Pictures demonstrating the submachine gun’s magazine's 45 (at least 45 that is, although I think I saw Gordon reload it in one of the videos where it popped back up to 45-just saying I'm betting it turns out to be 45 in the final version) round capacity and its larger size can be found here.

http://media.pc.ign.com/media/492/492830/img_2389829.html?fromint=1

I, of course, apologize if this has already been brought up. I am new and am unsure. I also apologize if you think I'm being overly anal about this. I just watched a few videos, and then upon reading some stuff on various sites I noticed an incongruence or two and felt the desire to have them addressed. If you don't care then by all means feel free to not post to this topic, or even better, post to this thread a statement expressing how little you care for this topic.
Click to expand...

You're wrong about the MP-7 part actually there are 21 rounds, 30 rounds and 40 round MP7 clips. The one in Half-Life 2 is supposed to be a 30 round clip. 40 rounds have a much longer magazine compared to the 30 round which is shorter.
 
hm. i'd like to have an PDW like that one.
anyway, i have another site about that pdw.
http://world.guns***/smg/smg49-e.htm
 
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