What do you want to see in CS2?

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Mad Dog

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Apologies if this discussion exists somewhere else, but the search feature didn't turn anything up.

CS:Source certainly is looking groovy, but I don't think it's going to be so much a revolutionary step so much as a cosmetic one. Now, I know there's sure to be like a bazillion people itching to jump in and DEMAND that the core gameplay change as little as possible, but just for a second consider how CS might benefit from some additions. Here's a few things that just jumped into my head:

1). Leaning/peeking around corners. Pros - more diversity in gameplay and player strategies. Cons - "it wouldn't feel like CS", it could possibly slow the flow of the game down. Personally, I feel this would only make CS a better game, and it's downright backward-thinking to not include this feature in a tactical shooter, IMO. One Life to Live, y'know?

2). Going prone. Pros and Cons are pretty much the same as above. It's worth noting that when CS was fairly new, it was considered one of the more realistic shooters around. I remember when they added things like the recoil-expanding reticule, gamers groaned that CS was "turning into Rainbow 6." I think they eventually got over it, although some people are still bitter over the limited jumping.

3). Iron Sights(see a pattern yet?). This is probably the most effective method of immersing the player in the vitrual battlefield that I've yet seen. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know - "Dude, iron sights is SO not CS!", but I'm gonna suggest it anyway! I think it should at least be optional; don't like it, don't turn it on! Handle it like left-handed models for all I care. And for those of you who haven't tried iron sights in-game yet: before someone diametrically opposed to the idea cites a crappy game from Novalogic, may I suggest you try either the excellent Call of Duty or the underrated Vietcong.

4). Some different objectives/gameplay modes. King of the hill, assault, capture the flag? In the wake of the totally rad Unreal 2k4 Onslaught mode, I'd love to see a wide-open CS-styled battlefield with vehicles. How about a comeback for Assassination mode? Oilrig alone just doesn't cut it anymore. Helicopter-bourne asaults, complete with rope rappelling. What about a demolition mode where the T's have to car-bomb a building?

5).New weapons and equipment. I like most of the guns in CS. In fact, the CS AK-47 is the definitve video game incarnation as far as I'm concerned. I just want more! Where's the love for the M-14, possibly the baddest-assed semi-auto rifle ever? Or a friggin' Colt .45? Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing a revolver, I can already see my dude flipping out the chamber, dumping his spent rounds, slapping in a speed loader and flipping the chamber back into place. *SNAP* IT'S GO TIME!

I'd also dig it immensely if there were additions to the Buy Menu. Like submenus to trick out your weapons a bit. Give you the option to buy things like silencers(that WORK), scopes(regular, night vision, IR/thermal, laser sights), hell, even a flashlight.

For equipment: maybe add the option for full body armor. It could cost like twice as much as the helmet+vest combo, and make the player significantly slower, but give him more protection. Maybe replace the shield with that.

C4 and/or claymore mines - I just love these things. I could just see the front door in CS_Militia, barricaded with tables and chairs with six or so terrorists just licking their chops for the moment some CT breaks through. Then, on the other side, you have a strike force of CTs at the ready, and the door man runs up the middle and slaps some C4 on the door. Hondo gives the command and BOOM shit flies everywhere - the room is wrecked. Then, though all the smoke, dust and debris comes the mother of all firefights. Oh yeah - teargas!

6). More communication options. What I had in mind was like a bullhorn that the lead CT or T could pick up and use to demoralize the other team. "By order of U.N. Article 1429 I hereby order you to lay down your arms..." Well, I dunno, I think it'd be cool, at least until they squeaky 10-year old gets it and starts giggling and making fart noises. You could always mute him...just a suggestion. Seriously, some kind of hand signals maybe? Games have been flirting with this idea for a long time. Imagine your voice com could be heard by nearby enemies, so you had to rely on visual cues. Samples here: http://www.clanccc.net/spanked/Handandarm.JPG

Well, those are just a few of the ideas I had rolling around, let's hear yours!
 
Final solution: go play CoD or BF1942

All that crap doesn't belong in CS, IMO. Sure, CS2 should be a different game, but it wouldn't deserve the title "CS" if you made the gameplay slow.
 
So that's your suggestion..."Go play blah blah?"

I kinda figured some CS fans would be hostile to the idea of change, but come on. You can't think of one thing to improve upon CS's gameplay? But any of that "crap" that I mentioned will certainly ruin it? :rolleyes:

Also, "final solution" sounds Nazi-esque :naughty:

Next?
 
lol, I wasn't being hostile.. didn't mean to come off that way :)
But I strongly believe what makes CS, CS is its varied gameplay speeds. It's "fast" by default, but the pace changes depending on the situation. Leaning would be fine, but adding prone would encourage camping.

I like the idea for hand/sign communication, that'd be nice, I admit.

Ironsights.. meh, I've never really liked them, but if it was an option, I guess that'd be okay. I personally wouldn't stand to look through them to actually aim, though

I dunno, I just can't picture CS being a hit if you added all that stuff.. I just imagined it being really really slow, sorta like Rainbow Six.. and.. mehhh! I don't want my baby to be like that :( lol
 
Would you consider Soldier of Fortune 2 to be slow? There was a period there where I quit playing CS altogether in favor of SoF2, which seemed to me to be a smoother, more streamlined CS.

These are just suggestions , guys. I meant for this to be a discussion about what we'd all like to see in the next CS. It doesn't matter if you don't know if it ever will or even can be done, it's just what you'd like to see in the game. Free your mind!
 
Hmmm, interesting. I think some of those ideas are good. I really like leaning, that would be mad(some guy leans around a corner and BAM headshot, :D)

Prone simply wouldnt work, far to slow. Same with IronSights, just wouldn't be right, even if we are trying to think of new and different things.

I think CS2 should be a fairly radical departure from CS, otherwise it will just be CS:S. But prone and ironsights wont work.
 
I've never played SoF2 :eek:
I know these are suggestions, I thought you wanted our opinions on them? lol
 
Shuzer said:
I dunno, I just can't picture CS being a hit if you added all that stuff.. I just imagined it being really really slow, sorta like Rainbow Six.. and.. mehhh! I don't want my baby to be like that :( lol
Click to expand...

spoken like a true mother.. :LOL:

hmm.. seriously tho.. i agree with Shuzer.. by adding some of the things mentioned in that first post, the gameplay would really slow down.

i think what makes CS attractive is exactly what Shuzer pointed out.. it offers the fast pace.. and then at times can have a slower yet enjoyable pace.. something other games really don't offer.
 
Mad Dog said:
1). Leaning/peeking around corners.
2). Going prone.
3). Iron Sights
Click to expand...

#1. Doesn't add anything to the gameplay.
#2. Will increase camping.
#3. Crosshair>Iron sights.
 
the ideas you mentioned about a mode that allows veichles sounds great. i'd love to see that in CS, because this could be a 'fun' map for all the people who are bored with normal CS.

The reason im not rushing off to play BF1942 is because CS could do it so much better... lets not forget that one of the reasons CS is great is because it offers realism. those of you who object, just look at the guns/ the buy feature/ the way you stay dead/ the real world issues...

but the car bomb would be brilliant IMO... i dont mean a huge battlefeind, but just one bomb veichle, with others that could be bought... i mean, imagine saving up for a humvee as the CS team? that would rock. destroying veichles = more cash = buying veichles. the possobilities :D

i know its been done before, but like i said, CS would do it so much better!
 
Vehicles will be in custom maps in CS:S, mark my wards!
/me waits for an awesome version of jeepathon_2k
 
Still not ONE SINGLE SUGGESTION by anyone but me. Me: DISSAPOINTED.

#1. Doesn't add anything to the gameplay.
#2. Will increase camping.
#3. Crosshair>Iron sights.
Click to expand...

#1. Yes, yes it does. It gives you the option to lean. That adds to your gameplay options.
#2. Possibly, but to paraphrase Shuzer: "if you're so hung up on crap like camping, GO PLAY QUAKE." :p
#3. In your opinion, sure. BUT!!! What if people like ME, and everyone else, had the OPTION to enable iron sights mode? Like, we'd be all into this whole new level of immersion, becomming one with our weapons, and you wouldn't even know.

Guys, guys, GUYS - I'm not asking you to swallow my suggestions whole here, but if all you're going to do is shit on the few ideas I gave to kick the discussion off, then don't bother; that point's been made. I even predicted there'd be a backlash from CS fans who fear any change.

Consider this though: the CS community resisted the expanding crosshair. It's CS now. Knife running has come, gone, come back, and been nerfed. Weapon accuracy and damage has been in a constant stae of flux, and look how many people are divided over the shield issue, not to mention the jumping rerstrictions. All these changes affected aspects of the game that people, at the time, considered to be central to CS. "It's not CS without jumping."

I look at these things, and I see room for improvement. CS is obviously a great game to have lasted this long, but reality check here folks: It ain't perfect. Once again: Let's hear what YOU would like to see new in CS2.
 
I have to agree and disagree with you 42... the style of CS is definitely realistic, but the gameplay is not. I love the terrorist vs. ct style and that is one of the main reasons I used to play CS. I would also love to see some of this stuff implemented into CS... leaning around corners, new weapons, and especially going prone. I would also like to see less to no ridiculous bunny hopping and little kids running around. On top of that I would like to see less of this 1337 speak bs... Speaking in "leet" or whatever it is, is just plain retarded. Am I the only one who hates that stupid shit? I guess that is the community rather than the actual game though. I wouldn't mind seein' some vehicles either. :)
 
More weapons. Hehe.
A bit more health.
Gfx (taken care of in CS:S)

I dunno, it's pretty good right now :D
 
Mad Dog said:
Still not ONE SINGLE SUGGESTION by anyone but me. Me: DISSAPOINTED.

#1. Yes, yes it does. It gives you the option to lean. That adds to your gameplay options.
#2. Possibly, but to paraphrase Shuzer: "if you're so hung up on crap like camping, GO PLAY QUAKE." :p
#3. In your opinion, sure. BUT!!! What if people like ME, and everyone else, had the OPTION to enable iron sights mode?
Click to expand...

Do you even play CS? I mean obviously you have no ****ing clue what you're talking about here.

Leaning over a corner serves no purpose, you WILL get shot through the wall no matter what you think, it's faster and more effective to strafe.

Going prone in combat is so gay, we will end up with a battlefield clone where every body hits the deck as soon as they see an enemy.

And if you choose to play with iron sights you will get shot by people you won't even see since the god damn gun will take up half the screen.
 
So let me get this straight: your idea on CS2 is to make it like ALL other shooters coming out, and jump on the realism bandwagon?

I sure damn hope so Valve doesn't take that easy way out.
 
I'd like to talk a little bit about "camping", since that seems to be a big concern with the CS community. IIRC, the term originated from the early Quake days when a player would sit near a weapon or health respawn and cream anyone who came near it. Since then, it's evolved into more or less an excuse for getting killed by someone you didn't see, probably because you were running around carelessly and they were behind cover.

The thing about CS is it's, according to the creators, a Tactical Shooter. It has a realistic edge to it, it was meant to offer more to the player than the fragfests from games such as Quake and UT. Now, that doesn't mean they insist that you play the game exactly the way they designed it; on the contrary, the sucess of the game is a testament to the fact that they made the game so accessable to so many playstyles.

But it IS a tactical shooter. You have one life to live, so it's in your interests to play that way. Unfortunately, the stigmatism of The Camper has advanced such that people throw fits if you don't play exactly like they think you should. People who prefer to rush or suicide charge feel cheated if you don't and beat them, and sometimes the Admin will even threaten to kick/ban you if you don't play exactly the way he feels you should. All the arguments in the world about being his server and his rules don't make that any less ridiculous. Some supporting evidence:

1). Hostage maps. Both teams have objectives: one is charged with the task of rescuing the hostages, the other's job is to hold them. Of course, one team eliminating the other trumps this, but to me that's just more leeway. Every hostage map has this premise: the CTs are on offense, the Ts are on defense. The map layout supports this: the T's have the advantage of position. From their perspective, it's not only easier, but it makes sense to take a defensive position in the base and wait. Their JOB is to keep the CTs from rescuing the hostages.

2). Demolition maps. Here, the roles are basically reversed, with the CTs being on defense. Their job is to stop the T's from blowig up the bomb target. Depending on the map, the CTs usually can get into position to defend the target before the T's can get there. It's their JOB to defend the bomb targets, by any means necessary. Again, they player has the option to do this by defending the position of by hunting down every last terrorist. His CHOICE is what the game designers had in mind, not one over the other.

If you guys think my suggestions would give rise to more camping, you just WAIT until CS:S comes out and people start barricading doors with furniture.

And a note about R6:

It's not as much of a camper's haven as some of you like to make it out to be.
It's still about being the first team to a chokepoint first, and being a good shot second, much like CS. The difference is one shot is potentially fatal, and since you still have to sit out the whole round, it's best to be careful.
 
Wow! Thank you for explaining what the cs and de maps are all about I had absolutely no clue. Thanks again.
 
Do you even play CS? I mean obviously you have no ****ing clue what you're talking about here.
Click to expand...
I've played it since beta 3.1. I have a **** clue, yes.

Leaning over a corner serves no purpose, you WILL get shot through the wall no matter what you think, it's faster and more effective to strafe.
Click to expand...
Have you even played a game with a lean feature? I mean you obviously have no ****ing clue what you're talking about here. :p

Going prone in combat is so gay, we will end up with a battlefield clone where every body hits the deck as soon as they see an enemy.
Click to expand...
It's not only not gay, it was a SUGGESTION. Feel free to add one of your own. Then again, if you lack the imagination, you could always JUST KEEP SHITTING ON MY SUGGESTIONS.

And if you choose to play with iron sights you will get shot by people you won't even see since the god damn gun will take up half the screen.
Click to expand...
Half the screen, eh?
http://www.sas.jolt.co.uk/JuneNews/Update6.jpg [pwned]
I suppose there could be like a small army obscured by my MP5 in that pic there, but I guess that's MY CHOICE then isn't it?


Anyone else who tinks my suggestions are bad; I FEEL YOU, I UNDERSTAND. FEEL FREE TO ADD YOUR OWN. But let's keep the discussion productive, eh?
 
CB | Para said:
I had absolutely no clue. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I didn't want to single you out or anything, so I made it like it was open to the whole forum. Glad you undertsand. :dork:
 
I would like to see more mission objective types, not like the CZ Tour of Duty 'kill x people with weapon y' type objectives, but actual new maps and missions.

For example
'King of the Castle' type of scenario where your team must be in control of a point or a series of points for either, say, a 30 second period or when the map counter expires.

'Retrieval' operation. One player (CT or T) gets a camera and have to take shots of plans (a la the CZ : Deleted Scenes mission) and return to the spawn/retrieval point. Make the camera an object like the bomb that can be dropped and collected by the offensive team.

'Capture The Flag' scenario. Much like the retrieval except with both teams simultaneously offensive and defensive.

'Multiple Flag' situation. Where one team must secure a series of points and the other team must defend. An extension of Capture The Flag but with two possible variants.
1: Flag Points can be recaptured
2: One team must capture all the flags and the defending team cannot reclaim them once lost.

'Assassination' scenario. Unlike the current assasination where there is a player controlled VIP who has to escape the T's, have a situation where the CT's have a couple of 'hostages' (witnesses under protection or something) and the T's have to kill them. Allow the CT's to move the hostages around to a degree.

As far as I am concerned the CS gameplay is great and shoould not really be tinkered with too much, but more mission types would expand the scope and longevity of the game enormously.
 
As far as I am concerned the CS gameplay is great and shoould not really be tinkered with too much
Click to expand...

QFE

I'm just glad they don't listen to fans like you Mad Dog.
 
What the hell is up with all the hostility? Anytime anyone mentions an idea you get replies like "wtf no thats gay! Keep CS the same, no one wants that, it's just like every other gay new game out there!"

These are suggestions people. Besides, if you don't want change, or don't like ideas you still have 1.6 and CS:Source, no one said you have to convert to CS2.

I would like to see CS grow alot with a sequal, I wont get technical with what I 'do not' want in CS2 becuase when/if it comes out, I will probobly still play CS:Source alot, so i'm all out for new elements.

Some things I find interesting are civilian bots, other than hosties there are only the CT's and the T's. I think it would be cool to see some people buy and sell goods in an Italian like map, then seeing them run out when the first shots are fired. Or to see people walking around and then hiding under tables and stuff when the action gets heavy. Could be interesting, seeing how the A.I. will be improved, they probobly wont get in the way.
 
Para, you are hopeless. I listed a few suggestions of things I think might make CS better, not WHAT I THINK THEY DEFINATELY HAVE TO DO. It was also meant to spark a discussion, you know, what the "community" wants to see added as well. SO far you have added nothing but unnecessary grumbling, like so much crotchety old woman.
Dig this useless comment:
I'm just glad they don't listen to fans like you Mad Dog.
Click to expand...
Fans like me? you mean gamers? Fans like me are partly responsible for the sucess of this game. Just for my own part, I've personally introduced over 50 people to this game, who in turn have introduced countless others. I have logged more hours into CS than any other PC game I've ever owned, and I have a respectable collection. I am EXACTLY the type of fan they listen to, Para.

Unfortunately, so are you. Even more unfortunately, you really don't have anything to say. I suspect you'll want to have the last word or something, but please quit trying to derail my thread, because I think there's plenty of good suggestions still out there.
 
i want to see
- lots and lots and lots of new weapons (a revolver would be... weird).
- slightly more realistic damage done from bullets (4 headshots from a tmp/glock and they can still run around... bah)
- new stuff to do. as to what the stuff would be, who knows, but just something to break the cycle of the cs we have today.
 
booogerhead said:
i want to see
- lots and lots and lots of new weapons (a revolver would be... weird).
- slightly more realistic damage done from bullets (4 headshots from a tmp/glock and they can still run around... bah)
- new stuff to do. as to what the stuff would be, who knows, but just something to break the cycle of the cs we have today.
Click to expand...

[Para]WTF?!?!?ONE!1! CS CANNOT EVER CHANGE! NEW=BROKEN!!1!1!eleven![/Para]

A revolver might seem weird at first, but how often do you use anything besides the main 3(USP/glock/deagle) anyways? I think a Police .38, Colt Python, or a bulldog .44 would fit right in. It wouldn't be any sillier or more out of place than dual Elites, IMO.
 
How about when you double-tap shift you do a dive and roll. Both entertaining and functional.
 
What about a melee attack for your weapons? Here I have this big, solid wooden stock on my AK, yet I have to sling it over my shoulder to equip a knife if I want to get a sneaky up close kill. :hmph:

Now, I'm not suggesting that the knife should be scrapped, but JUST CONSIDER adding a pistol-whip option. *THWACK*
 
Hey mad dog, this is a forum to my knowledge I'm allowed to criticize your suggestions, if you can't handle it that's not my problem. Now get over yourself.

And I'll give you an intelligent idea: sprinting just like dod.

Oh and FYI Leet speak isn't hip anymore so you might wanna stop that 11oneeleven crap.
 
There's the last word. Oh, whoops! :dork:

Sprinting is SO not CS. You want sprinting GO PLAY FAR CRY!!! ;)

Incidentally, I think the running speed in CS is fine, but that's just me. In fact, take away the limited jumping and CS( and HL in general) just about has the perfect feel for player movement, weight, and speed. It's still the basis for comparison I use whenever a new FPS comes out. Like Far Cry is kinda floaty, R6 is kinda sluggish, HL is just right.

Here's a thought: How about some kind of PDA interface where all of the teammates have some sort of real-rime map of the level, and can bring it up and mark points here and there, and use it to coordinate strategy. I'm assuming the maps in CS2 will be bigger and more complex than those in CS, so simply saying "he's in the stairwell" over TeamSpeak might not cut it. Besides, it's be wicked cool, in addition to having what the Pros use in real-life.

Also: A button to make you close your eyes, possibly one to hold your breath. Flashbang lands at your feet, shut your eyes! Teargas lands in the room, hold your breath! This probably isn't CS enough for most of you guys, but I'd still like to see it in a game someday.

More suggestions!

Lastly:
Oh and FYI Leet speak isn't hip anymore so you might wanna stop that 11oneeleven crap
Click to expand...
Oh my GAWD. I just got served!
 
Lemme explain, instead of holding the knife to go faster, you'd get to sprint holding any weapon. Accuracy would be reduced obviously but you could at least run away if an awper pins you down. And it would make much more sense than having to hold a knife to go faster, and rushing bomb sites would become easier.

And yes you got "served" now let it go.
 
Actually, the better way to handle sprinting would be like the way Red Orchestra does it, where the player holds his weapon up to his chest(rendering it temprariliy unusable) and totally hauls ass. The logic here is that he's putting all his energy and balance into running as fast as he possibly can, while keeping the weapon in a "ready to fire" status would slow him down. Try running with a water gun or something if you're curious to test this out.

And yes you got "served" now let it go.
Click to expand...

Or in your case, try running at a policeman with a realistic looking toy gun, screaming threatening remarks if possible. :naughty:
 
Mad Dog you might wanna try Americas Army, its got a lot of what you're suggesting, and man is it hard :(
 
I'd really like to see a shipyard map. Like the one off the end of the movie "Metro". Possibly with a convoy carrier or like 2 kind of vehicles. Except you have to like extract a VIP to some boat, and it's basically a quiet opened map with tons of places for snipers. So the majority of the Terriost team would be snipers, actually this idea might be better for TF2 so the classes could be limited for a sniper. Anyways seeing that movie the other night makes me want to play socom 2 and R6 a lot more.
 
# 1-5 can be answered by going to play CoD, Battlefield or Medal of Honor, thank you very much. Leave all that crap out of CS.

# 6 Could be cool...I guess..not needed really I don't think.

My Suggestion:

Bring back 1.3 gameplay already. Screw these WWII retards who want slow gameplay, or noobs who can't "get good" at the game.

Why did they have to noob it up...
 
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