What exactly is a non-linear FPS?

[trizzm]

Alright so everywhere I see people complaining that these days, first person shooters are "too linear". people in their reviews of HL2 list linear level design in their negatives. I would like to hear some of you guys' brillant ideas about how to make a non-linear FPS game work. how the hell do you want to script something in a game if there is the possibility of you simply not going in that place. what is it you want in your games, the whole planet to wander around aimlessly in? because you know, there's the real world for that. i'll be damned if you find any boundary (oceans aside) or linearness in there.

i like my games linear, i can not give a shit about other stuff than blowing the place where i'm at all over.

 

[Vigilante]

Yes
/6char

 

[Kschreck]

Morrowind was the hugest game I ever played with large large worlds where you can get lost in and of course it's FPS or 3rd Person.

 

[Prince of China]

Morrowind was an RPG. It doesn't count as a first person shooter.
It wasn't really a "shooter".

 

[StardogChampion]

Alright so everywhere I see people complaining that these days, first person shooters are "too linear". people in their reviews of HL2 list linear level design in their negatives. I would like to hear some of you guys' brillant ideas about how to make a non-linear FPS game work. how the hell do you want to script something in a game if there is the possibility of you simply not going in that place. what is it you want in your games, the whole planet to wander around aimlessly in? because you know, there's the real world for that. i'll be damned if you find any boundary (oceans aside) or linearness in there.

i like my games linear, i can not give a shit about other stuff than blowing the place where i'm at all over.

It's not necassarily about making a huge world where you could miss entire sequences. I'd just be happy with more than 1 way to enter a building type of thing.

I want to be able to reach point B by choosing to go 1 of 5 different ways.

 

[KagePrototype]

FPS games like Deus Ex, Rainbow Six, Far Cry and System Shock 2 pulled off the more non-linear format really well (albeit to various degrees). You can't make a game completely non-linear, that's just silly. But you can certainly avoid making them feel almost like on-the-rail shooters.

 

[trizzm]

stardog: well i'm pretty sure that when developers have the option to either start from a story sequence and then branch out the paths and make them all come up to the next story point, and lose a lot of time doing that and risk the level design looking goofy, or just make one god damned path but make it kick ass all the way, they don't debate much.

 

[Laivasse]

I fully agree with the poster. FPS games are meant to be linear. Non-linearity isn't very popular among fps developers, because they know that your average FPS fan given a choice of route will double back and do both. Which defeats the entire purpose of adding so called non-linearity, since the game experience will still be more or less the same every time, just more awkwardly shaped.

If you want non-linearity, play a decent RPG, or go and play San Andreas. The more linear you make an FPS, the more you control what the player sees, the more you control the story. Ergo, the game is more gripping and immersive.

Non-linearity just translates as shapelessness in a game like HL2. You give people slightly wider environments and make it feel less on rails and suddenly they're all like ":-/ I liked Black Mesa better"

 

[Zeus]

I fully agree with the poster. FPS games are meant to be linear. Non-linearity isn't very popular among fps developers, because they know that your average FPS fan given a choice of route will double back and do both. Which defeats the entire purpose of adding so called non-linearity, since the game experience will still be more or less the same every time, just more awkwardly shaped.

If you want non-linearity, play a decent RPG, or go and play San Andreas. The more linear you make an FPS, the more you control what the player sees, the more you control the story. Ergo, the game is more gripping and immersive.

Non-linearity just translates as shapelessness in a game like HL2. You give people slightly wider environments and make it feel less on rails and suddenly they're all like ":-/ I liked Black Mesa better"

No, Doom 3 was very linear and I found farcry to be more gripping and immersive. Non-linear games IMO, are superior because they give me a choice on what I want to do, and I don't feel so constricted when I play.

 

[Asuka]

FPS games like Deus Ex, Rainbow Six, Far Cry and System Shock 2 pulled off the more non-linear format really well (albeit to various degrees). You can't make a game completely non-linear, that's just silly. But you can certainly avoid making them feel almost like on-the-rail shooters.

What he said. FarCry Deus Ex very good games. Id say Deus Ex was the more non-linear game.

 

[Styloid]

Non-linear games essentially are equivalent to reality TV shows. They show unscripted, spontanious events. You get the feeling that anything can happen- good guys don't always win, romances don't stay together, great plans don't work out, etc. Unlike TV, you get to control over what happens.
Linear games are like more traditional, story driven media. They build up and mix feelings like sadness, fear, excitement, etc. and use various forms of tension and resolve in the story to keep it 'interesting'. They give a preplanned, authored experience. Unlike other media, games (obviously) let you play the main character and experience everything first-hand.
I think both have their positive and negative points but I have found that I have never replayed a non-linear game before, even if they're pretty good. At the same time I am always replaying levels from linear games just to see how everything was done, all the details that add to the stories, and the fact that linear games usually have more intense and unique action gameplay.

 

[jimbo118]

far cry is a good example of a non-linear game,hmmm thats all i can think about

 

[Mith']

I hate completely non-linear games, i always gets lost!
Far cry: Where the hell am I? Hush... is that a trigent? Stupid pig get away! Shut up Doyle! I'm trying to go to that point you marked on the radar, but there is a mountain in the way!!! Arghhh!!

But i actually liked Far Cry except for that, and the stupid trigents...

 

[DrDevin]

I like both types of games but non-linear games are nowhere near non-linear enough yet. In GTA and far cry you still have to complete missions in an exact order with no real way to finish the game differently (some games have a limited number of "alternate ending"). I know it is almost impossible to make a game that allows you to kill off major characters or join your enemy to conquer the world because it would just take too much time/money to make. It would be cool though to be able to kill the combine or join them and kill off all the resistance fighters as an option though, more replayability!

*I agree stupid trigents aways used to kill me.............

 

[jimbo118]

I hate completely non-linear games, i always gets lost!
Far cry: Where the hell am I? Hush... is that a trigent? Stupid pig get away! Shut up Doyle! I'm trying to go to that point you marked on the radar, but there is a mountain in the way!!! Arghhh!!

But i actually liked Far Cry except for that, and the stupid trigents...

lol good description ,i felt like that sometimes

 

[Alig]

I think FarCry is the only good non-linear FPS out there. Deus Ex is more an RPG no?

 

[oni_666]

Best non-linear FPS is Operation Flashpoint.
Huge playing maps, basically one whole Island to run around.
There is nothing worse than playing an FPS that is Linear, you walk upto a door, and its locked, But the one next to it is open, Why?

Play a Linear FPS once and its highly unlikely you'll want to play it again, I played Doom 3 once, then because it was so Linear never played it again, Ok so HL2 is a bit Linear too, But the Physics bit and vehicles keeps me coming back for more, Where as Doom3 had nothing to offer once it had been completed the first time.

I disagree that Morrowing isn't an FPS, it is..You see the world through the eyes of the character..Where as something like Max Payne is third person, you see the whole character, not just the world through his eyes.

The first Deus Ex was a good non Linear FPS too, various paths to complete an objective, you were'nt just forced down one corridor or down one path, multiple paths were available to complete the missions.

 

[Laivasse]

I disagree that Morrowing isn't an FPS, it is..You see the world through the eyes of the character..Where as something like Max Payne is third person, you see the whole character, not just the world through his eyes.

First Person Shooters aren't just about a first person perspective - they need the "shooter" bit as well. Morrowind is definitely a different genre of game from Doom3, HL2 et al.

 

[jimbo118]

ok so we have far cry and op.flashpt,and deus ex i guess,no others,hidden and dangerous 2 is very non-linear but people might not know it

there must be more

 

[Cole]

Well BF1942 technically.

 

[KagePrototype]

I think FarCry is the only good non-linear FPS out there. Deus Ex is more an RPG no?

It has RPG elements, but is still primarily an FPS.

ok so we have far cry and op.flashpt,and deus ex i guess,no others,hidden and dangerous 2 is very non-linear but people might not know it

there must be more

System Shock 2, Rainbow Six, like I said before. Keep up mate.

 

[jimbo118]

It has RPG elements, but is still primarily an FPS.



System Shock 2, Rainbow Six, like I said before. Keep up mate.

lol,i am up ,rainbox six is quite linear, lvl design i mean,well atleast the 1s i played,system shock 2,havent played that

 

[2Fast4U]

Stalker seems to be quite non-linear. And it looks like it's going to be a pretty good game.

 

[Shakermaker]

I like my games non-linear. If you give me the right tools (map, binoculars, logical level design, etc.) I'll figure it out. FarCry wasn't very non-linear but at least they tried. Operation Flashpoint was awesome; here's hoping that part 2 will be no too multiplayer focused.

 

[Zeus]

Yes OPF was very good, I enjoyed the campaign and map editor, the multiplayer was good but you had to spend like 15 minutes to get into a game

 

[Exclamatio]

i prefer linear as the pace is generally much faster which is what i personally want from an fps

it feels like you are playing a film

 

[john121]

many games are non-linear in the respect of more than one way to enter a building.. a door... or a window.. or in red faction, blowing a hole through the wall.. there, 3 ways LOL ( i know, not what you truly meant)
hmmm.. deus ex comes to mind...

 

[Jintor]

In regards to the Morrowind fps or rpg question:


A FPS is a First Person Shooter. Morrowind only gets the first person bit. the aim of an FPS is to fill you full of adrenalin.

A RPG is a Role Playing Game - Morrowind was that - you were playing the Role of some guy who was gonna save the world from Dargoth Ur. Role playing. First person view is irrelevant. Morrowind is a RPG with a First Person veiw.

There shouldn't really be a linear or non-linear FPS - they're just shooters, really.

 

[Saturos]

The original Doom games were largely non-linear, as so was Duke3D/Duke64.

Deus Ex was also non-linear to an extent storywise and also had multiple approaches to problems.

If anyone ever played the Star Wars FPS on the PSX, (can't remember the name) that game was also largely non-linear.


Most modern FPS are too linear tbh, focusing too much on pacing and story. Gamers in the past probably complained about the frustration of wondering around not-knowing what the hell to do in earlier FPS titles. That was part of the fun imo. The thrill of finally finding an exit path whilst blowing away hundreds of baddies. Those were the days.

I hope Doom 4 isn't so linear. It just isn't Doom without some kind of level design frustration.

 

[Hectic Glenn]

Saturos this thread is from 2005, what the hell?