What exactly was the science team doing?

[mastapenguin]

Raising the Bar describes Eli Vance, and by implication the rest of the former Black Mesa Staff, as "the key thorn in the side of the Combine". Furthermore, they apparently help the resistance by supplying "support, technology, and weapons".

In that case, where did all that stuff go?

The only examples of Resistance technology you ever see are the Tau cannon on the buggy, the gravity gun, and the teleporter. The crossbow and RPG are also pretty impressive (impossible), but they aren't as connected to the former BMRFs as the rest are.

For the most part, all the defences, buildings, and machinery used by the resistance is made by the rebels themselves, with some help from the vortigaunts. I don't see Dog's and GG weilding rebels constructing forts, nor do I see the (innefectual) tau cannon being used by anyone other than Gordon.

If Eli and his ilk are so dangerous to the combine, what have they been doing? Is that tau-mounted buggy being regularly commandeered and used to perform deadly strikes against combine bases? Is the GG passed out on a waiting list for bases to build stuff and wreak havoc with? Does Dr. Kleiner don the HEV and lead the rebel militia in glorious guerilla strikes against the combine?

Maybe they provide leadership for the forces, but that seems equally unlikely. I mean, these are theoretical physicists. It's not like they have the time to study information, plan battle maneuvers, and figure out strike points. In fact, it's likely they spend most of their time doing what they've always done; sit in a lab and do research (though I do see Kleiner being a terrible Protoss fiend).

I don't see why the combine consider the BMRFs so important, nor do I see the resistance has survived so long with what help can be seen from them. When Gordon shows up, the Combine absolutely steamrolls every single resistance base out there. What was preventing them from doing so before?

Anyway, Eli and Izzy certainly have some techno-magic up their sleeves, but I don't get how it accomplishes anything other than make pretty lights, drain generators, and send certain MIT graduates to places they really don't need to be.

 

[Glenn the Great]

I think that the crucial role that scientists like Vance and Kleiner play, is that of organization. Eli Vance in particular is a great leader. He seems to be responsible for creating the alliance with the Vortigaunts. They masterminded the underground railroad effort, and I believe they were very ingenious to hide both labs as well as they did.

But I see what you are saying about how the Combine easily crushed the underground railroad. Breen mentions in one of his messages that he could have taken Eli's lab at any time. I can't really think of a reason why he didn't do it sooner.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Well, there is that nifty little scanner thingy at the entrance to BME, and the whole BME base, powered by generators, with elevators and stuff. But you do make a pretty good point.

 

[Shinigami5587]

Well a possible reason for the lack of invading Eli's lab could have been the fear that in the battle or as a precautionary measure the telaportation equipment would have been destroyed, thus Breen used Mossman. Remember Mossman is a spy so it probably took her a while to earn the trust of Eli and get that close to him in order to steal his research (then later she attempts to turn him to "her" cause) The reason for not destroying the underground railroad until Gordon came is simple. In the beginning it was just a small nuisance that didn't matter, or so Breen thought. After seeing how far they helped Gordon he moved in and crushed then. Another reason why he took so long was because he was trying not to kill more humans. Remember he thinks what he's doing is for humanities sake, its not really a selfish idea (a stupid one, but not selfish). And what does Eli and Izzy do for the rebels? Its simple. They act as figure heads, they help maintain group cohesion. They are the leaders of humanities only hope (Don't say the rebels aren't humanities only hope cause without them Gordon would have been screwed). Generals don't go into the field and help setup ammo dumps and troop barracks, they order the men and women of their forces to do it and as good little soldiers they listen.

 

[Asknoone]

But I see what you are saying about how the Combine easily crushed the underground railroad. Breen mentions in one of his messages that he could have taken Eli's lab at any time. I can't really think of a reason why he didn't do it sooner.

Because he wanted the teleportation technology to develop. The resistance wasn't going anywhere fast until Gordon arrived. The one thing they were succeeding in was the very thing Breen wanted them to succeed in. And he had Mossman.

 

[Glenn the Great]

Yeah, that's right. Completely slipped my mind.

 

[Asknoone]

Also, it's not just any resistance. It's Eli Vance, Issac Kleiner and Barney Calhoun. Three Black Mesa survivors, the very source of the invasion. They know how to teleport, they've a better grasp of the situation and they know Breen. Hell, Eli and Breen were once friends. That alone is a threat to them, as it could provide implications to the Combine occupation on Earth. You know, human loyalties an all...Breen himself shows regret when faced with sending Eli and Alyx to the teleport chamber.

 

[Pesmerga]

Circle jer-... oh, this is one of those "serious" threads.

I still don't understand how a handful of scientists, who barely understood the Xen portal in HL1, are now the forefront of emerging technology. Yet the Combine, who have already mastered one method of teleportation, can apparently sift through universes, and use magic balls for energy, have failed to grasp the concept of local teleport. The G-Man must have offered his technologies to the scientist guys in return for nicely trimmed suits and leather suitcases filled to the brim with snickers bars.

 

[Asknoone]

Entanglement is what the Combine cannot grasp. It's just something they can't do, or figure out to do. I mean, this handful of scientists did understand the Xen portal - Eli, Kleiner, Kellar, Rosenburg, Freeman, Green...they all went out of their way to cease the rift, and in many ways they succeeded.
This handful of scientists had already managed local teleport. Remember Lambda? Remember the two rooms with the two portals? Local teleport - a metre apart. And that was 20 years ago in Black Mesa.

 

[mastapenguin]

Alright, Breen not storming Eli's lab is explainable. I can see how he would be extremely reluctant to possibly damage Eli's local teleportation research.

But my question is that of TIME.

Even with Black Mesa gone, the three known surviving scientists probably could get to work quickly on a new teleport. It would be like a mechanic building an engine from scrap metal. He knows what he needs, he just needs the parts. I'd imagine most of the time Eli and Izzy were waiting on the perfect missing part to put on their teleport.

So what did they do in the meantime?

So far, it looks like they built a GG, put an old Tau on an older buggy, and heavily fortified their respective bases. Except for providing the cleanest, securest, and most comfortable rebel base in the world, thats all thats given to the resistance.


Unless, of course, the BMRFs had a hand in constructing the RPG and the crossbow.

It's not that unlikely. The crossbow itself has some extremely weird, unexplainable physics to it. So, who better to produce weird physics than the chaps who brought you the teleport? Heck, even the rocket launcher is nuts in how maneuverable, accurate, and powerful that rocket is compared to its size. Is it that unlikely that Eli threw together a rebar throwing sniper from the junk in his backyard?

 

[Glenn the Great]

What is so unexplainable about the crossbow? It's got drawstrings like a normal crossbow, and it has a powered heating unit built in to rapidly heat up the ammunition. It appears to have been improvised from spare parts, and is probably powered by one of those energy packs you find everywhere.

 

[Shinigami5587]

Well think of it like this. Eli and Izzy are in fact intelligent people in a seat of power. People will listen to them cause who's a better choice? And remember, the world, even though in a weakened state should have been able to stave off the annihilation of human social structure as a whole. It took seven hours for the Combine to roll over us. Eli and Izzy are taking their time. Rediscovering and recreating everyday technologies, forming a force that has a chance at fighting the Combine and surviving. Remember the dialog at the end of the game where Alyx and Eli are yelling at you not to listen to Breen while he's basically saying the rebels purchased your services. Eli and Izzy were merely planting the seeds for rebellion and the fight against the Combine while they bid their time. They were waiting for the spark to arrive. That spark is you, Gordon Freeman. They knew you were coming eventually, Barney in civil protection waiting for you, Izzy preparing the HEV suit and the build up of forces and technology. They also had to plan on what to do about the actual war on the Combine. They knew that the Combine would return in full force and smash down any insurrection, so they waited for the right time to strike, waited until victory could be attained.

 

[Llama]

Raising the Bar describes Eli Vance, and by implication the rest of the former Black Mesa Staff, as "the key thorn in the side of the Combine". Furthermore, they apparently help the resistance by supplying "support, technology, and weapons".

In that case, where did all that stuff go?

The only examples of Resistance technology you ever see are the Tau cannon on the buggy, the gravity gun, and the teleporter. The crossbow and RPG are also pretty impressive (impossible), but they aren't as connected to the former BMRFs as the rest are.

For the most part, all the defences, buildings, and machinery used by the resistance is made by the rebels themselves, with some help from the vortigaunts. I don't see Dog's and GG weilding rebels constructing forts, nor do I see the (innefectual) tau cannon being used by anyone other than Gordon.

If Eli and his ilk are so dangerous to the combine, what have they been doing? Is that tau-mounted buggy being regularly commandeered and used to perform deadly strikes against combine bases? Is the GG passed out on a waiting list for bases to build stuff and wreak havoc with? Does Dr. Kleiner don the HEV and lead the rebel militia in glorious guerilla strikes against the combine?

Maybe they provide leadership for the forces, but that seems equally unlikely. I mean, these are theoretical physicists. It's not like they have the time to study information, plan battle maneuvers, and figure out strike points. In fact, it's likely they spend most of their time doing what they've always done; sit in a lab and do research (though I do see Kleiner being a terrible Protoss fiend).

I don't see why the combine consider the BMRFs so important, nor do I see the resistance has survived so long with what help can be seen from them. When Gordon shows up, the Combine absolutely steamrolls every single resistance base out there. What was preventing them from doing so before?

Anyway, Eli and Izzy certainly have some techno-magic up their sleeves, but I don't get how it accomplishes anything other than make pretty lights, drain generators, and send certain MIT graduates to places they really don't need to be.

Its the teleportation technology that makes them so important. They managed to do the Combine never have.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Even with Black Mesa gone, the three known surviving scientists probably could get to work quickly on a new teleport. It would be like a mechanic building an engine from scrap metal. He knows what he needs, he just needs the parts. I'd imagine most of the time Eli and Izzy were waiting on the perfect missing part to put on their teleport.

You didn't happen to notice the slight difference in size? The hl1 teleport was the size of a football stadium, while as the hl2 teleport was built inside a closet.
My guess that is what took so long, when you don't have state of the art equipment and you have to redesign something to be roughly eight times as small, it takes a while. Compare to asking a flight engineer to construct a jetengine as powerful as the one of a modern fighter jet, but no bigger than a handbag, using only scrap metal with a totalitarian government looking over your shoulder constantly.

 

[Asknoone]

In Black Mesa Eli and Issac had government funding, state of the art equipement a whole host of other scientists to aid in the process. Black Mesa isn't there anymore. They are a ragtag resistance struggling with every day life...20 years is a good estimate to how long it's taken them.

 

[Eejit]

You didn't happen to notice the slight difference in size? The hl1 teleport was the size of a football stadium, while as the hl2 teleport was built inside a closet.
My guess that is what took so long, when you don't have state of the art equipment and you have to redesign something to be roughly eight times as small, it takes a while. Compare to asking a flight engineer to construct a jetengine as powerful as the one of a modern fighter jet, but no bigger than a handbag, using only scrap metal with a totalitarian government looking over your shoulder constantly.

I'd say the power requirements are also a lot lower. Look at how long it took the BM teleporters to power up compared to the HL2 ones.

 

[ProphetSix]

I've wondered why the combine are confined to their own means of transportation. They propably couldn't get a firm grasp of our universe's physics. Every universe has differences like that remember.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

I've wondered why the combine are confined to their own means of transportation. They propably couldn't get a firm grasp of our universe's physics. Every universe has differences like that remember.

They don't have local teleportation. That's why Breen convinced them not to destroy earth.

 

[99.vikram]

Eli arranged humanity's truce with the Vortigaunts. Kleiner, in Mossman's words "shrunk the Xen relay" beyond anything previously concieved. Both are working on cutting edge tech no one else can understand. But everyone needs their work to help the resistance to grow and become powerful.

Eli also seems to be an inspiring leader figure. And Barney's legendary escape from Black Mesa makes him a widely accepted military leader.

 

[Azner]

By the way, the teleportation to Xen was discovered by accident. A mere miscalculation of 0.88 power in the teleportation system and caused the portal storms. And with 20 years of you, Freeman being gone, and probably at least 18 years under the combine, The Resistance could prepare for a full force attack on the overwatch.The combine have everything besides A strong Teleportation back bone, and Breen cannot help them as he was put in Black Mesa for Space if im not wrong. The combine would want to get hold of these three main characters: Eli, Kliener and Freeman. And if still alive Green,Gina and Rosenburg. Rosenburg was a great scientist as far as i am concerned as he is Barneys claim to fame. Could someone tell me About Collette and Gina as i have not played Decay

 

[99.vikram]

Colette and Gina ended up trapped in an Infinite Harmonic Reflux. They're as good as dead. Rosenberg probably got killed during the portal storms or the seven hour war, as no one mentions him in HL2.

 

[Asknoone]

Rosenberg probably got killed during the portal storms or the seven hour war, as no one mentions him in HL2.

I wouldn't really expect them too.
But yeah, I doubt things are looking good for Rosenburg.

 

[Azner]

Rosenburg would make a big deal to the HL2 community

 

[Asknoone]

Not really. How so?

 

[99.vikram]

I'd like to see Rosenberg and Barney together again. In a scripted scene.

 

[Shinigami5587]

Colette and Gina ended up trapped in an Infinite Harmonic Reflux? I thought they escaped. Yeah I'd eventualy like to know what happened to all the survivors of the Black Mesa Incident.

 

[Asknoone]

I'd assume most of them died. Rosenburg is most likely alive, providing he made it through the portal storms/7-hour war - at least he had Barney at his side (unless they got seperated).

Gina, Collette and Keller - dead. Keller (who was abit of a dick anyway) was wheelchair bound and didn't stand much chance of getting out of there in a hurry. Killed by an alien, shot by the military or taken out when the nuke went off - take your pick, as long as it's gruesome. As for Gina and Collette...I'd say dead.

 

[Azner]

Not really. How so?

He was one of the leaders of the teleportation project by the way. By the way... Henry? Whaddaya mean by that

 

[Asknoone]

He was one of the leaders of the teleportation project by the way.

I know what he was, but when you said 'community' I assumed you meant the actual community, as in, people on forums. Fans. Not the resistance.

 

[bboymatty]

rosenberg was awesome, had the most personality of any of the scientists and was friendly too, if not a little selfish (jumping in portal before you!)

anyways, id like to see him rock up, just to keep the characters fresh

 

[Llama]

I've wondered why the combine are confined to their own means of transportation. They propably couldn't get a firm grasp of our universe's physics. Every universe has differences like that remember.

More likely they just developed one form of Teleport tech and stuck with it, not knowing you could do it any other way.

 

[john121]

i'd like to know what happened to the bullsquids after HL1, it seems they were pretty resilient to every environment, including radioactive waste. Also, they were trying to hump everything...

 

[Asknoone]

Bullsquids, like all other Xen creatures inhabit the wasteland that is Earth.

 

[Llama]

Unless they themselves got wiped out by other Xen Wildlife...Antlions are the only non human entities on the coast line (Well, for most of it anyway)

 

[Asknoone]

That's a single coastline. Can you see anywhere where a Bullsquid would live on the coast? No.

 

[Azner]

That's a single coastline. Can you see anywhere where a Bullsquid would live on the coast? No.

Where would a Bullsquid live then...as far as im concerned, they live near water(which is going to be taken away from earth very soon by the combine)and plants and of course food(they are carinvores) Guess where?

 

[Asknoone]

Somewhere away from antlions? Antlions attack anything, and there wouldn't be much of a safe haven anywhere on the coastline. In the wasteland - swampland areas, abandoned cities, sewers - an old power plant.

 

[Azner]

Somewhere away from antlions? Antlions attack anything, and there wouldn't be much of a safe haven anywhere on the coastline. In the wasteland - swampland areas, abandoned cities, sewers - an old power plant.

Most probably sewers and swampland, to bullsquids, water(contaminated or not even biohazardous) is very essential

 

[dog93]

I think that the crucial role that scientists like Vance and Kleiner play, is that of organization. Eli Vance in particular is a great leader. He seems to be responsible for creating the alliance with the Vortigaunts. They masterminded the underground railroad effort, and I believe they were very ingenious to hide both labs as well as they did.

But I see what you are saying about how the Combine easily crushed the underground railroad. Breen mentions in one of his messages that he could have taken Eli's lab at any time. I can't really think of a reason why he didn't do it sooner.

beacuse he wanted freeman

 

[dog93]

Most probably sewers and swampland, to bullsquids, water(contaminated or not even biohazardous) is very essential

are the antlions xen you never see them in the old hl games