What happened to revolutionary graphics?

[rootbin]

Is it just me, or did they severely tone the graphics down from what we were seeing a year ago? The very last demo they released... Some time after all of the HL2 movies they released over Steam showed off some incredible new technology for dynamic indoor lighting. I actually walked through the area the demo was of this morning, on top of the roof, when the combine is first shooting at you.

When I saw this demo, I was blown away. The roof reflected the sky, the indoor lighting was breathtaking, etc... Now, even with all of the graphics as high as they can go on my 6800GT (no flames, that's not what this is about), it doesn't look too incredible. I mean, its nice, everything looks nice, just not... Revolutionary. Not like it did a year ago.

Maybe I've just been spoiled by Everquest 2.

 

[azz0r]

Just you.

 

[raloth556]

Is it just me, or did they severely tone the graphics down from what we were seeing a year ago? The very last demo they released... Some time after all of the HL2 movies they released over Steam showed off some incredible new technology for dynamic indoor lighting. I actually walked through the area the demo was of this morning, on top of the roof, when the combine is first shooting at you.

When I saw this demo, I was blown away. The roof reflected the sky, the indoor lighting was breathtaking, etc... Now, even with all of the graphics as high as they can go on my 6800GT (no flames, that's not what this is about), it doesn't look too incredible. I mean, its nice, everything looks nice, just not... Revolutionary. Not like it did a year ago.

Maybe I've just been spoiled by Everquest 2.

If you are talking about the same vid I think I remember reading back then that this would not be default in the game. It was turned on via the console and will only work on some specific materials with a specific graphics card. fps will be low.

I think we won't see much true hdr stuff for a generation or two when full fp frame buffers are stadard. Good to know the source engine can scale for the future though.

 

[rootbin]

Yeah, HDR, that's what it was. It wasn't only HDR that was missing however, it was alot of the 'shiny' that this game had a year ago.

And it isn't just me, I found the video I was referring to, its completely different. If anyone wants to see, I'll upload it in a little while.

I'm not trashing the game, I'm just wondering how the graphics deteriorated as technology improved. I'm getting a solid 80fps with all of the settings up! Don't tell me I can't afford to add some more dx9 level features.

The soft shadows are cool.

The gameplay is wonderful. Valve has done an excellent job of making another fun game with an intriguing storyline.

 

[Bullseye]

could be me but i think it just looks simply awesome!!!

 

[lans]

Well - the later levels in Ravenholm feature some pretty fancy graphics, in terms of geometry. The middle levels use higher res textures with a lot of shiny shader effects. Just play the full game - you'll be satisfied - trust me.

 

[rootbin]

Oh, I know I'll be satistfied, really I was just wondering if Valve had ever announced they were scaling the graphics back for release. I haven't really followed Half-life 2 since last September...

 

[Chris D]

Who cares? The graphics are still better than Doom 3's.

 

[Miker75]

Who cares? The graphics are still better than Doom 3's.

That statement is absolutely correct. Just walking out into the square after leaving the trainstation.. that, to me, is the best use of graphics in a computer game I've seen. It looks gritty, it looks a bit faded, it just really looks like what it's supposed to be.

Doom3 on the other hand just had lots of dark places that looked too perfect.

Hell I had fun playing with the swings and the see-saw And picking up the doll that cries at you. heh.

7 more hours of work.. ugh..

 

[SubKamran]

Is it because he doesn't have an ATI card? :|

 

[Varsity]

Graphics are always scaled back. Halo, Rome TW, and HL2. The initial PR burst is done for maximum impact, but the game itself has to run well.

 

[The Monkey]

Damn this game is good. I've just played two hours.

 

[rootbin]

Is it because he doesn't have an ATI card? :|

Don't even get that bit started. Besides, I only bought this because the X800's weren't in stock at the Fry's near my house yet- in fact, only the Xtacy version has even been released to retail stores- I need something to play Everquest 2 on. I'm returning this for an X800 XT once those come in

Doom3 was much more technologically advanced than Half-life 2. Carmack's games are never much more than a glorified tech demo, and that's all Doom3 was. No one should have expected it to be much more.

Half-life 2 used color and design to a much better end than Doom3 did. Its much like comparing the graphics in World of Warcraft to Everquest 2... World of Warcraft looks better (in alot of people's opinions, not mine), and Everquest 2 is much more advanced.

Which is better? Thats just opinion. I liked Everquest 2's graphics better just because I could spend hours jumping in the water, watching the shadow's move as the day progresses, chasing the butterflies... Alot of people like World of Warcraft's more because they are alot easier on the eyes and more well designed and colored. Just opinion

 

[lar1r]

Didn't Gamespot hint that Valve is working on adding advanced graphics as an add on? They were called ATI levels.

I am guessing these will have updated graphic technologies being used.

 

[im2emo2shower]

Your Video Card Smart One Lol

 

[Runner1]

when i walked straight forward to the wall in D3 i asked - damn that's ugly! hahaha What happened to revolutionary graphics? ;P

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Don't even get that bit started. Besides, I only bought this because the X800's weren't in stock at the Fry's near my house yet- in fact, only the Xtacy version has even been released to retail stores- I need something to play Everquest 2 on. I'm returning this for an X800 XT once those come in

so wait.. let me get this straight, u are waiting for a store to get some Ati cards so u can buy one?!?!
dude go to another store omfg!!!
hehe im joking but yeah if i were u, i'd be holding out for the Ati card.. especially after hearing of the "Ati levels" :E

 

[<?>..::ButcheR::]

graphics are great maybe its something with your settings or hardware

 

[Warbie]

Looks great to me

 

[destrukt]

1 year happened.

 

[Asuka]

That movie was a tech demo showing off the gfx for source. They can make hl2 look like that. But your fps would go sky down!

 

[GumbyClip]

i have crappy video card but the graphics still look freaking awsome to me

 

[rootbin]

Exactly. So if its capable of this, how do I turn it on? That was my point. Does anyone know?

That movie was a tech demo showing off the gfx for source. They can make hl2 look like that. But your fps would go sky down!

 

[DEATH eVADER]

in the 4 months, valve didn't sought out those overlapping shadows

 

[Ragingsamster]

Wait until you get to the beach level, the expansiveness is quite literally breathtaking. I'm sure that they could have pushed the envelope further, but I am not complaining. My AIW9700Pro slices through the graphics like warm butter at 1024X768 with all but one setting maxed (using default trilinear filtering)

Kudos to Valve for groudbreaking graphics/performance equilibrium!

 

[Neutrino]

Ya like Raziel-Jcd said, that was just a tech demo, not the game.

As for the graphics in general, their pretty nice but nothing great in my opinion. Contrary to what others say, I think Doom 3's were better.

 

[Acert93]

I think HL2 cheats on HDRL very well.

The problem with true HDRL is that is it a FPS KILLER. FarCry loses AA (HDRL and AA are not compatible at this point) AND you lose 50-70% of your FPS.

So imagin going from 70FPS to 20FPS--that is HDRL. It wont be for a year or two until this awesome setting is mainstream--it is a killer I tell you. Same goes with all dynamic lights. I WANT THEM. I want to be able to SHOOT every light. But the system load on that is huge because you also then need to be able to have dynamic shadows. D3 handles their shadows with the CPU...

Anyhow HL2 looks great. Great art style and the engine is top tier. Source handles indoors and outdoors VERY well--I am really happy with it Oh, and the characters are no competition... and that is what brings believability to the game.

 

[rootbin]

True that anything related to HDR kills FPS, but it would still be nice to see it. And, at some point or another, the functionality was in the game, so where is it now? Did they remove it? Developers very rarely remove working functionality from a game, much more likely there is an obscure series of console commands to activate it.

 

[Acert93]

True that anything related to HDR kills FPS, but it would still be nice to see it. And, at some point or another, the functionality was in the game, so where is it now? Did they remove it? Developers very rarely remove working functionality from a game, much more likely there is an obscure series of console commands to activate it.

Doom3 had some stuff developed and not shipped (i.e. I think they had shadow buffers or stensil buffers... forget which one... that actually is coded but no assets are available in game).

It may be either (a) it is in the game, but needs to be console enabled or (b) there is a console path for it but the code did not ship.

Since Valve said they would do updates to the engine it *may* be available down the road, but then again it may be in other Source games OR the expansion pack.

Dunno... the game still looks great.

 

[Sharpfish]

*sigh*...

The fact that the clouds are a STATIC SKYBOX (read pre Unreal one era games circa 97) on the first "AMAZING" city scene are enough to tell me this game is far from what it could have been, I'm sure a lot of people are saying it has the "best gfx ever" just because they have read it enough times in the plentyfull "trusted reviews"... they are not - they are good.. but..
Again I will repost this here from another thread which sums up my negativity towards this game, I am a 30 year old man, with a decent spec pc, have played many games, I code and Have worked in the games industry so don't assume Im some trolling retard teen with nothing better to do than bitch - this game has just made me that sick.
Of course I don't expect ANYONE to dare be different from the crowd and agree with any of this, so flame if you like cos I'll just ignore you. The "Troll" card is played everytime someone has a different opinion than what is popular, and it's getting old now.

===
my view (from another thread ) - call me a troll if you want, I really am not, I love all games and want to love all new tech - this game is a good game but that is it... OVER RATED.


===

one thing I forgot to post before - and i think it is quite important and a wake up call to those that think this game is the best thing graphically since.. well , the last thing. notice the first city scene when you leave the station? the frickin sky box doesn't even move (rather the clouds) as static as the rest of the areas.. lifeless.. jebus H, can no-one else see how basic these things are? every doorway or tunnel is a complete squared off piece of BSP 98 style... there is virtually no trim (as in geoemtry) in any of the buildings - they are completely basic but with good textures, that is what I object to and Doom3 may have had low res textures but it tried to push the other areas where it counts .

The physics are a novelty for the most part - apart from when need for in game puzzles - and they are not without their downsides - try this - the first block with the guy sat at the table - let go of the frying pan on his (place it on his head) it basically jumps up and down on his head, unaided, infinately... wow .. real ..

sorry but I have gone back and restarted this game, with less stutter and tried to see what all the OVERHYPE is about - it is an 8/10 game for the gfx and in time others will see this too.. The trees don't move, the grass doesn't move, again - geometry is behind last year tech - the only area is excells in is using shaders, specular reflection, refraction etc (basically all the tricks) on virtually every texture it can - that is not "real" in the same way some of you say "doom is not real" ...

I am begining to regret buying this game, It has been a nightmare since day one and I thought it would all be worth it - I have heard (or found out for myself) so far:

The story is shit

The ending is shit

The loading times are shit

The geo detailing is above average but not revolutionary

The Interaction (sans physics) is shit (dead ends/doors)

The path is linear with a couple of "cooL" set pieces per problem that show of the physics - all the time being forced from loaded section to next loaded section without a real feeling of freedom to even explore a little

The so called voice transformers fitted to the ever present facist rod weilders are not there to be cool - wake up - they are there because each entity is the same - Valve didn't want to have to make 100 different voice wavs for each phrases so they just did one for all that is NOT a feature it is a limitation (understandable but why the hype?)

The Camera is completely wrong - feels more like a flight sim the way it cleanely glides as you walk (no bob)

The "story" parts (such as the bit where you get your suit) are painfully dull and have no sense of the magic in the original

The propoganda on all the screens is extremely irritating (maybe the point) but audio clashing is not good - when you get a headache from characters talking over that stuff.

The HUD is as dull and workmanlike as dishwater.

The textures range from gritty realism to almost cartoon quality (the first town scene - the orange houses look like a completely different style to the white houses - yet the designers get praised to high heaven about it???)

Then there are the Audio/Caching problems which are extremely widespread

I just people would get their minds in order and be realistic about this overhype product - without the stuttering problem I would give it maybe an 8/10 inline with similar products released.

Yes I know my post sounds angry, and it is just a game, and I will get flamed and accused of being a troll.. I dont give a ****, wake up people the hype has got to you and you refuse to back down on your opinions, be critical and see what is in front of you. I have *TRIED* and tried again to love this game the way I thought I would do after waiting for so long, but it has no soul.. it is playable but passable.

If this post serves no other purpose, let it be a warning to the as yet to purchase - buy it but lower your expectations - it is not "better" than Doom3 for everyone, just for those that prefer this style of game/gfx. I prefer FC and DOOM3 to this (heck even painkiller with its monotonous waves of enemies felt slick, smooth, cohesive and fun in small doses).. this game just makes me feel sick and though I will go on to play it all the way through my experience has been tainted forever by the pre-hype and the fanboys who still insist it is "mindblowing" compared to other good fps from the last 12 months.

It's amazing what a name can do.. if this had been called "Chaser 2" I'm betting people would being realising a whole lot quicker that this game is not the second coming.

Feels shit to be mostly alone on this opinion as I wonder what the world is made up of - maybe everyone already exists in a similar world to half life and has to conform with popular opinion to fit in..

I did before the release - I was 100% convinced this would be the best game ever, or at least up there with the best .. it is far from it.

*IMO*

 

[Tropico]

Well im having great fun.
Sorry to see thats the case with you.

 

[f|uke]

Sharpfish,.

I loved the story, the characters, the interaction, and the endless extra areas and all the detail. There has never been nearly so much detail in a game. It really is amazing how much texturing they did, and how important that clearly is.

GFX like this have never been seen in a game before. People have never seemed so real in a game before, not only in how they look, but how they act (and these characters really act!). The game was rich with variation in gameplay. It was exciting and fun.

Honestly, I was hoping for a moving skybox too.

But I really think you're letting your nitpicking interfere with your enjoyment of a truly great game.

 

[RCNitro]

I'm not gonna say ATI's better then nVidia, but the game *was* designed for ATI cards, much in the same way UT2K4 was designed for nVidia cards. ... I'm getting an X800 Pro (one that's flashable to the XT-PE) within a month or so (assuming I stop calling in sick to work to play HL2 :angel: ), and I'll do an in-game comparison between it, my friend's 6800GT, and the Radeon 64 DDR VIVO I'm running now...

That is, unless someone else gets an X800 XT-PE before I do...

 

[The Dark Elf]

Is it just me, or did they severely tone the graphics down from what we were seeing a year ago? The very last demo they released... Some time after all of the HL2 movies they released over Steam showed off some incredible new technology for dynamic indoor lighting. I actually walked through the area the demo was of this morning, on top of the roof, when the combine is first shooting at you.

When I saw this demo, I was blown away. The roof reflected the sky, the indoor lighting was breathtaking, etc... Now, even with all of the graphics as high as they can go on my 6800GT (no flames, that's not what this is about), it doesn't look too incredible. I mean, its nice, everything looks nice, just not... Revolutionary. Not like it did a year ago.

Maybe I've just been spoiled by Everquest 2.

Well firstly Source was never gonna have proper dynamic lighting, that was just a myth, Valve went the baked radiosity lighting route instead of the Doom3 method.

Secondly the very cool HDR demo showed what Source is apparantly capable of, not what HL2 would have (I know, I miss it too)

The graphics DO look amazing in places, yeah some does look rushed, but some look excellent, parts of the canal and coastal maps, and C17 in general look fantastic. One of the canal maps I always thought was just a screenshot from a pre-render.. Yet its in there, its realtime and it looks amazing.

Play it through in DX7 mode, looks great, but then play it properly in DX9 mode, the differences are subtle but they are there and work really well. the slight reflections, specularity effects, the normal mapping on characters, its not in your face effects, but its there and the difference is noticable. The vortigaunts for example, look great on DX7, with normal mapping on DX9 they look even better.

use the console to turn off bump maps if you want to see a sudden difference in quality.

 

[Reaktor4]

*sigh*...

The fact that the clouds are a STATIC SKYBOX (read pre Unreal one era games circa 97) on the first "AMAZING" city scene are enough to tell me this game is far from what it could have been, I'm sure a lot of people are saying it has the "best gfx ever" just because they have read it enough times in the plentyfull "trusted reviews"... they are not - they are good.. but..
Again I will repost this here from another thread which sums up my negativity towards this game, I am a 30 year old man, with a decent spec pc, have played many games, I code and Have worked in the games industry so don't assume Im some trolling retard teen with nothing better to do than bitch - this game has just made me that sick.
Of course I don't expect ANYONE to dare be different from the crowd and agree with any of this, so flame if you like cos I'll just ignore you. The "Troll" card is played everytime someone has a different opinion than what is popular, and it's getting old now.

===
my view (from another thread ) - call me a troll if you want, I really am not, I love all games and want to love all new tech - this game is a good game but that is it... OVER RATED.


===

one thing I forgot to post before - and i think it is quite important and a wake up call to those that think this game is the best thing graphically since.. well , the last thing. notice the first city scene when you leave the station? the frickin sky box doesn't even move (rather the clouds) as static as the rest of the areas.. lifeless.. jebus H, can no-one else see how basic these things are? every doorway or tunnel is a complete squared off piece of BSP 98 style... there is virtually no trim (as in geoemtry) in any of the buildings - they are completely basic but with good textures, that is what I object to and Doom3 may have had low res textures but it tried to push the other areas where it counts .

The physics are a novelty for the most part - apart from when need for in game puzzles - and they are not without their downsides - try this - the first block with the guy sat at the table - let go of the frying pan on his (place it on his head) it basically jumps up and down on his head, unaided, infinately... wow .. real ..

sorry but I have gone back and restarted this game, with less stutter and tried to see what all the OVERHYPE is about - it is an 8/10 game for the gfx and in time others will see this too.. The trees don't move, the grass doesn't move, again - geometry is behind last year tech - the only area is excells in is using shaders, specular reflection, refraction etc (basically all the tricks) on virtually every texture it can - that is not "real" in the same way some of you say "doom is not real" ...

I am begining to regret buying this game, It has been a nightmare since day one and I thought it would all be worth it - I have heard (or found out for myself) so far:

The story is shit

The ending is shit

The loading times are shit

The geo detailing is above average but not revolutionary

The Interaction (sans physics) is shit (dead ends/doors)

The path is linear with a couple of "cooL" set pieces per problem that show of the physics - all the time being forced from loaded section to next loaded section without a real feeling of freedom to even explore a little

The so called voice transformers fitted to the ever present facist rod weilders are not there to be cool - wake up - they are there because each entity is the same - Valve didn't want to have to make 100 different voice wavs for each phrases so they just did one for all that is NOT a feature it is a limitation (understandable but why the hype?)

The Camera is completely wrong - feels more like a flight sim the way it cleanely glides as you walk (no bob)

The "story" parts (such as the bit where you get your suit) are painfully dull and have no sense of the magic in the original

The propoganda on all the screens is extremely irritating (maybe the point) but audio clashing is not good - when you get a headache from characters talking over that stuff.

The HUD is as dull and workmanlike as dishwater.

The textures range from gritty realism to almost cartoon quality (the first town scene - the orange houses look like a completely different style to the white houses - yet the designers get praised to high heaven about it???)

Then there are the Audio/Caching problems which are extremely widespread

I just people would get their minds in order and be realistic about this overhype product - without the stuttering problem I would give it maybe an 8/10 inline with similar products released.

Yes I know my post sounds angry, and it is just a game, and I will get flamed and accused of being a troll.. I dont give a ****, wake up people the hype has got to you and you refuse to back down on your opinions, be critical and see what is in front of you. I have *TRIED* and tried again to love this game the way I thought I would do after waiting for so long, but it has no soul.. it is playable but passable.

If this post serves no other purpose, let it be a warning to the as yet to purchase - buy it but lower your expectations - it is not "better" than Doom3 for everyone, just for those that prefer this style of game/gfx. I prefer FC and DOOM3 to this (heck even painkiller with its monotonous waves of enemies felt slick, smooth, cohesive and fun in small doses).. this game just makes me feel sick and though I will go on to play it all the way through my experience has been tainted forever by the pre-hype and the fanboys who still insist it is "mindblowing" compared to other good fps from the last 12 months.

It's amazing what a name can do.. if this had been called "Chaser 2" I'm betting people would being realising a whole lot quicker that this game is not the second coming.

Feels shit to be mostly alone on this opinion as I wonder what the world is made up of - maybe everyone already exists in a similar world to half life and has to conform with popular opinion to fit in..

I did before the release - I was 100% convinced this would be the best game ever, or at least up there with the best .. it is far from it.

*IMO*

Agree about the sky. But the rest you are placing too much importance on and exaggerating.

 

[jbond03]

The loading times are shit

thats so true, in the middle of the game i have to sit through a minute of "loading" while i still feel the rush to go!

 

[DarkDude]

If this post serves no other purpose, let it be a warning to the as yet to purchase - buy it but lower your expectations - it is not "better" than Doom3 for everyone, just for those that prefer this style of game/gfx. I prefer FC and DOOM3 to this (heck even painkiller with its monotonous waves of enemies felt slick, smooth, cohesive and fun in small doses).. this game just makes me feel sick and though I will go on to play it all the way through my experience has been tainted forever by the pre-hype and the fanboys who still insist it is "mindblowing" compared to other good fps from the last 12 months.

Reading this and looking at your join date pretty much sums up what you are. Anyway, would you care to stop spamming your biased filth in every thread that has the word graphics in it?

 

[Sharpfish]

"Reading this and looking at your join date pretty much sums up what you are."

What, someone who joined up after rushing out and buying the game on the day of it's release, paying full retail price, getting it home, installing it eagerly, finding it wont play properly (not my system - amd 64 3400+, dx9 card), getting over that and carrying on anyway, mostly "enjoying" the experience but not "blown away" as countless reviews and users were saying, then coming into threads that are asking if anyone agrees with the opinion that the poster thinks it is over rated, a dissapointment or the gaming experience in it is flawed and not "100000X100000 times better than Game X" (or comparing it to game x in a totally BIASED way - i.e having been reading about how great HL2 was supposed to be in the long wait, i'm certain a large proportion of people made up their mind it was going to be the best game ever, and better than Game x,y and z all put together and are now ignoring the flaws and bash those other games instead!).. I have no problem with people who like the game, just the misinformation.

True if that is what sums up what I am then you are right, if you are thinking anything else then you are way of the mark and your reply is all too obvious.

 

[Vertz]

Sharpfish, Seriously man? the clouds don't move..."OMFG0RZ THE GAME IS SHIT"

I remember when my 8 bit nintendo had amazing graphics..So what the graphics arn't unreal 3 standerd or whatever your looking for..valve made the game look spectacular whilst making it run very well for lower end users..not every pc gamer has a £2000+ system..there are people that spend there money on other things part from PC's (like food for example).. Valve caters to the mass market not elite fanbois who want there games to be hardcore bleeding edge graphics, I have a game that did do that for ya, Doom3, but that game was so ****ing dull half-way though I wanted to stab my eyes out with a pitchfork.

The graphics imo were awesome, and I was totaly immersed I couldn't give a flying monkey shit from im a celeb if the ****ing clouds didn't move. :flame:

 

[Sharpfish]

"Sharpfish, Seriously man? the clouds don't move..."

yeah, seriously.. .hard to believe isn't it?


Shame some of you have lower standards and expectations of such basic graphical extras in a so called "best game ever" and "best graphics ever".. so what is it to be?, "best gfx ever - excluding the skies, and the piss poor basic - first newb add on map - square - no trim bsp" ??? can't have it both ways.. the point I have been trying to make is it is a GOOD game, but simply not any better than the TOP games that have come out recently for *GRAPHICAL* tricks or rather, it has some good gfx tricks but lets itself down on the tried and trusted basics that are simply missing. That is what this thread is about no?? if you can't see that and can't post more than the standard HL2 fanboy response then maybe you shouldn't enter this thread.. it may contain things you don't want to read (hint: the thread title is a good clue as to it's contents.)