What should a mod leader actually do ?

[Fluffy Kitten]

After reading many a thread on the Help Wanted forum with people saying that they want help to do their mod idea, and they'll 'act like a director' or 'be doing concept art' I started to wonder what it is that makes a credible mod leader.

To me it just doesn't seem to sound 'right' if the mod leader isn't one of the coders, but then that means every 'ideas man' has to be a coder... could you take a mod team seriously if it's leader was just one of the modellers ? One of the mappers ? At what point down the 'difficulty to learn and do' scale does a mod leader lose his credibility to you ?

 

[The Dark Elf]

A good mod "leader" should be able to turn their hand to any part of the process and understand everything thats happening. They should be able to keep everyone in check and know instantly whats supposed to be getting done and whats left to do. They should be helpful to their team and be able to offer tips on how to do things, have sensible and workable idea's and not their head in the clouds. They should be tough but fair and should not be swayed by other people's idea's unless their any good. They should have a clear perspective of whats going on and whats going to happen from the beginning, and be able to quickly fix any mistakes or problems. They should also look to take on people with the right talents, not just a bunch of their friends who begged them. A good leader should also have plenty of background experience in as many area's as possible, otherwise when they say something should be done, they may likely not know how to even do it themselves.

A good mod leader should infact be able to do atleast 90% of the mod on their own if they had to. Be someone others can respect and be someone who wont stand for any trouble or be too soft on trouble makers.

Just like a real director really.

 

[Majestic XII]

Depends what you want to do. The best thing would be:

Singleplayer mods -> Mapper or writer
Multiplayer mods -> Coder

But I dont really agree about that (hmm... im talking with myself again). If you got a skill outside of design writing and team organization, thats great. I personally always want to work with a small and close team, its a plus if the leader is a coder. Feels better that way.

 

[qckbeam]

A team leader doesn't have to be a programmer. They should just have a good knowledge of each department they oversee. That way they can set realistic goals, schedule things appropriately, etc. You can spot a bad leader quickly, they are the ones who rave about all the amazing features their mod will have without ever giving anyone a plan to follow. Good leaders admit that engines have limits, and give or at least attempt to give their team some idea of what to do. Good leaders will also listen to reason. Say for example their coders come to them and tell them that a certain feature just cannot be implemented, they'll understand and either scale it back or cut it all together. The bad ones tend to be very stubborn and will stick their original game plan, regardless of how bad it may be.

Fenric said it all really so I don't even know if posting this will serve any purpose, but oh well

 

[StardogChampion]

Yeah, basically they have to be a good all-rounder.

I'm guessing you're Fluffy Kitten from the BY Natural Selection servers? I used to play there as The Dude, although I doubt you'd remember me.

 

[Fluffy Kitten]

Right on both counts.

I'm a little bit surprised the opinions so far aren't more like Fenric's "they should be able to do at least 90% of the mod themselves" going by the usual responses in the Help Wanted forum when people say how little they'll actually be doing.

('The Dude' is actually ringing a bell, now I come to think of it...)

 

[chapel]

Well, being a leader myself, I can honestly say that one of the biggest things a leader must have/do is be realistic. I mean at first in pre-productin, you can get away with floating in the clouds, thats where some great ideas come from, but when it comes to crunch time, you better be able to look at everything in an even light and decide what is necessary, and what needs to stay in the clouds. On the point of skills, you should at a minimum understand and know the steps needed to produce the modification from programming to modelling to textures to whatever. You dont have to be awesome at it, hell you can down right have gawd aweful skills when it comes to those, but if you know how it works, and know what it takes, you can instruct people more skilled than yourself to create your vision.

I am working on my overall skills in modelling, mapping, coding, textures and anything else related. I have purchased a few books related to management, and coding principles, and so on. I have previous experience in writing and coding, but with all my skills, I still have to work on them, and make them stronger. One thing though that I think is important for a mod leader to have, is the ability to operate with out getting stressed out, and be able to solve conflicts. Believe me, conflict is apart of mods, its hard to escape, and if you can, youre one lucky person.

I want to run my mod as professional as possible, while not being too strict because I am not paying anyone, at least not yet, and people have lives to live. I recommend you pick up some books focused on game design, developement, and management, they will strengthen your over all skills as a leader.

 

[MadMechwarrior]

Im a leader also and I have to say it is very hard to respect a leader who doesn't actively take part in atleast one part of development apart from design. A good leader is somebody who can get things done quickly and painlessly. You dont have to be a jack of all trades but you have to be able to understand whats going on. I usualy take an active part in nearly every field of development with the mods I run. I have modelling experience, lots of coding experience, effects programming and shaders too. You basicly have to dip your head into every field of game development to understand whats going on and then specialise so you can help out your team too.

The most important part of any mod is planning and being realistic. I think the reason many good leaders are coders is because they know the limits of the engine they work with and they know what can and cant be done.

 

[Brian Damage]

I was going to do the entire EoJ mod on my own (Maybe ask friends to do the voices)... but people just offered to help (Like Varg)... so I've got a small team now. Very small. Not much to lead, come to think of it...

 

[The Dark Elf]

I was going to do the entire EoJ mod on my own (Maybe ask friends to do the voices)... but people just offered to help (Like Varg)... so I've got a small team now. Very small. Not much to lead, come to think of it...

that means less people to screw up and ruin it all. Spare a thought for those silly boys who get teams of 20 or more and then realise they haven't a clue how to lead them

 

[Brian Damage]

Just the thought of trying to get 20 people to work together...

YAAARG!

 

[Rincewind]

Thats why French and American cars are crap - They have too many extra features like GPS SatNav, which always breaks down. British, German, Scandinavian and Japanese cars are reliable because they are simple. So there's no point in having 2 mappers if one can do it just as well.

A leader has to have a clear but flexible vision of the final product, must be patient and never stops getting ideas, no matter how bad they are.

 

[ComradeBadger]

that means less people to screw up and ruin it all. Spare a thought for those silly boys who get teams of 20 or more and then realise they haven't a clue how to lead them

Hence the way I'm working now:

2 People, and when I need more, I'll get more tbh. But right now, I have no need for people.

 

[Shinobi]

that means less people to screw up and ruin it all. Spare a thought for those silly boys who get teams of 20 or more and then realise they haven't a clue how to lead them

damn right,, I learned that the hard way

in contrast to that since then I've tried to work with a small core group that has good communication...

thank god for ventrilo (awesom sound quality voice chat program), if it wasn't for ventrilo I'd have a 400$ phone bill

 

[weerat]

Agreed, a good Lead will have a wide range of skills, providing them with an understanding of each team members tasks but that isn't an essential requirement. I feel one of the most important aspects of a Lead's job is communication. The Lead is there to continually update each and every team member of the progress being made around them and when problems are encountered the lead is there to make decisions and provide support.

The Lead of any mod should be the driving force behind both the concept and the execution. If they show no enthusiasm, or fail to communicate that enthusiasm, the outlook is not good. Taking on the role of lead is a test of character more than anything else.


Are you going with the 'Interception' idea you posted a while back?

 

[The Dark Elf]

thank god for ventrilo (awesom sound quality voice chat program), if it wasn't for ventrilo I'd have a 400$ phone bill

Heh I tried that once but the problem was everyone being too afraid to speak, so everybody basically sat in silence and quietly mumbled

 

[Fluffy Kitten]

Are you going with the 'Interception' idea you posted a while back?

Yea... hopefully. Been washing it around my head for ages now, with new ideas being attached to it every so often.
Although that wasn't what this thread was about... I'm not after a team or anything as I know I have no credibility and am currently trying to get on to a 3 year Art course, so even if HL2 and the SDK were released tomorrow I'd still not really be able to start work straight away*, which no doubt a mod team would want to do.

[* - even if I took the route of being 'mainly a director' it'd still need lots of time... I have a very specific idea of what I want the game to feel like, which will no doubt take bloody ages to get just right. ]

However, the longer I leave it, the more I can feel my scant knowledge of coding running away from me.

 

[weerat]

That's fair enough, and a wise approach to the situation. Creating a mod is no small undertaking and I think a lot of people fail to appreciate that. There's nowt wrong with holding on to your idea while you find the time for the project. Better to wait, and do it properly, than rush out a half-arsed excuse for a puddle of warm piss and call it a mod. Hell, it may even be better to indefinitely postpone the idea than sully your concept with a weak attempt.

Whatever, you choose, all the best.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Heh I tried that once but the problem was everyone being too afraid to speak, so everybody basically sat in silence and quietly mumbled

If I recall correctly.. you sounded like Graham Norton

He, twas me and you, thats it

 

[Majestic XII]

If I recall correctly.. you sounded like Graham Norton

He, twas me and you, thats it

Heh, the only thing i could hear from you two was laughter

 

[ComradeBadger]

Heh, you were too scared to talk :E

Anyway, yeah, t'was a giggle

Happier times.

 

[Majestic XII]

Heh, you were too scared to talk :E

Anyway, yeah, t'was a giggle

Happier times.

I had no mic!

Right right... back to topic or something

 

[Argyll]

I could have sworn I replied to this topic... was it deleted?

 

[The Dark Elf]

If I recall correctly.. you sounded like Graham Norton

I was full of cold and did not sond like Graham Norton, that was morrowind in the background

 

[Brian Damage]

What's this Ventrilo thing, some kind of voice conference utility?

 

[The Dark Elf]

What's this Ventrilo thing, some kind of voice conference utility?

Yep pretty much, good quality too, when people speak *looks at Badger and Majestic*

 

[Argyll]

No, no posts have been deleted in this thread.

hmmm... Ok, I guess I didn't reply then eh lol

 

[PinFX]

Arriving a little late in this thread, but maybe I can throw in a different perspective.
(before I do that, Ventrilo rocks!)

I think first and foremost, a mod leader needs charisma and an ability to see the bigger picture. You can divide up the important roles into director, PR, management, admistration positions and the mod leader would seem to have no job to do. However, in any project being worked on by a team there will always be conflicts, and even when the management and admistration make the entire team work together very well, it takes someone who has a broad perspective to step in and make important decisions on development. What technical knowledge the mod leader needs in order to make those decisions depends on the structure of the team, and the content of the project.

 

[ComradeBadger]

I was full of cold and did not sond like Graham Norton, that was morrowind in the background

Heh.

At PinFX: You are not a company, you are a mod team, fancy titles like PR, management and administration positions mean nothing if you are incapable of formulating a direct plan of action. There should be no such positions in the team. End of story, the mod leader should be 'managing' the mod, be seen as a figurehead, and do any administration if nessesary.

 

[PinFX]

I have to disagree. I think that the viewpoint of a mod leader as someone who knows everything and does everything is simply impossible. Especially if your mod leader is the game design lead and/or programming lead then administration is hard. From experience, if you try to do everything by yourself it'll get to the point where you'll be annoyed to talk to team members about issues that arise, simply because you have so much to do. It was a hard lesson for me to learn that in terms of administration (and all those other fancy titles), a mod leader really does need help sometimes. I don't think you should think about it as a company vs. a mod team, but rather the practical reasons for having these positions, especially if your team is relatively big.

 

[ComradeBadger]

You shouldn't have a big team in the first place, less control. And administration is hardley a crippling load on a leader. And you aren't supposed to do everything by yourself

Thats what the team is for.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I think some people treat this far too formally. Managers, directors, administrators? No thanks.

Too many cooks spoil the broth - most mod teams overrecruit. Four or five coders for a project? No way on earth would that work.

I'm not surprised that people think they need administrators, when they haven't got a clue what their own mod needs are.

How many people worked on Counterstrike?

 

[PinFX]

Can't disagree with you guys, but then again different teams have different objectives. Our opinions probably reflect that.

 

[ComradeBadger]

I think that all mod teams are working for the same objective, making a mod

 

[Jhahn2k4]

So.. I could make a mod (with just HL2 models), if I knew how to map (i kinda do )?
Right?

 

[Shinobi]

Heh I tried that once but the problem was everyone being too afraid to speak, so everybody basically sat in silence and quietly mumbled

hahah,, luckily we haven't had that problem,, although only the main 6 or so guys on the JM team use it regularly,,, but that's fine since it's the core team

 

[Konfuzzyus]

I agree on that big team problem.
Theoretically you can bring any mod to alpha state with a dedicated coder and a no less dedicated modeler/artist.
If you have a big team you'll spend a lot of time organising the work and synchronising design (a cartoonish texture on a goo dripping zombie? ack) and sourcecode (more than one coder on a project is one helluva mess to handle) - Time you could spend on actually creating stuff instead of agonizing with your teammates.

I, for myself, am currently working on my projects alone (no mods, but at least I can pull them on my own), and I am constantly scrapping concepts or filing them in the cabinet simply because I do not have the motivation, the time, the skill or whatever to actually go and create them and surprise: I don't even annoy anyone while doing so.

 

[Argyll]

My mod isn't going for a vast team. Keeping things simple is the best way. We don't hire every Tom, Dick, and Harry to come along. Only those who are dedicated and up to our standards with quality of their work.

 

[RHex]

I am a mod leader, and I do all the writing and a fair bit of the modelling too... I keep the guys on my team in a tight rope Even if I don`t do any mapping and coding, I still know a bit about it, and I am able to help if they have problems.

Generally I would say that even if you suck on everything but one skill, you can still help just by providing an different angle!

But they`w got to know who`s the boss.... :thumbs:

 

[babywax]

Jeese, all these mod "teams!"
I'm making my mod alone :x
I really fail to see how a team can accomplish one person's goal...
It seems to me that the most important thing a leader should do is make sure everyone has the same image of the mod. What it will feel like, how it will play, the genre, exactly what style of graphics etc...
Of course, a good technical knowledge of how the engine works, and what it can and can't do (feasibly that is) is very close to being a requirement.