Whats gonna happen to Iran?

[SAJ]

Methinks Cpt Stern steers a narrow course between compliment and sarcasm.

 

[CptStern]

heh I stayed clear of sarcasm ..too many rocks :naughty:

 

[bigburpco]

Based on what I have read, I hereby forecast the future (hopefully not):

iranwantstobombisraelcausetheyrepissedoffatthemcauseidunnoorlyyrlytheyusesgoogleearthtofindtheisraelpileofnukesandsendsonenukethereboomitexplodesthenboomanotherexplodethenboomboomricochetexplosionbaboommillionsaredeadinstantlythesurroundingareasareclearedoutitlookslikehowallicecreamfallsoffitsconeradiationspreadsOHNOESZOMBIESandthenitspreadsandtheworldisdoomedin90secondsasmorenukesareexplodedeverythingduetotheevilzombienaziregimetoeliminateallnonzombiesboomtheworld isabigshitholeforzomebies

/shitrant

That is why we worry about Iran.
__________

Seriously now, with the Iran president ranting about 'wiping Israel off the map', Iran is a big worry.

 

[Bait]

Iran will further cement George Bush's position in history as one of the worst human beings to ever be in a postion of power.

 

[Raziaar]

Iran will further cement George Bush's position in history as one of the worst human beings to ever be in a postion of power.

Looking through history... there's been far worse. Even worse for the united states, too.

 

[Llama]

True, but I think starting a nuclear war (If it happens) will place him a hell of a lot higher

 

[Raziaar]

There's not going to be a nuclear war in his remaining term. Trust me. People need to stop being so paranoid.

This isn't another cold war... which mind you, nuclear war was averted by minutes. Its scary to think how close the world came to a nuclear war back then... a couple minutes to oblivion, and then everybody ordered a stand down.

 

[jondy]

Iran will further cement George Bush's position in history as one of the worst human beings to ever be in a postion of power.

cough *Hitler* cough :E

 

[Bait]

I said "one of the".

Sure they are plenty of jackasses throughout human history, but we are living through the era of one of the greats among them.

 

[baxter]

“Mission impossible"

As we are sold the sterling and profound sentiments such as “finishing the mission",” not leaving until the job is done". One thing that bothers me is we are never actually told what the job or mission is.

Is it to make the world a saver place, rid the world of rogue states, eliminate terrorism, and remove dictators or simply to push our own agenda forward?
See this is the problem setting yourself up as the worlds policeman it means you have to have a set of rules that you adhere to and not make them up as you go along.

Pumping out propaganda such as “the Axis of Evil" is not enough but it allows you to demonise places such as Iran. So the propaganda machine goes into overdrive to install the fear that we all need to justify any action we choose to take. Forget the millions of peaceful people who populate Iran and who simply want to get on with their lives.

As Iran takes the centre stage and the process of dehumanising is ploughed out we can rest easy that the same world leaders that led us into the disaster of Iraq are at it again. Surely lessons have been learnt……eh maybe not.

No need to worry though after all this country is thousands of miles away and who cares if thousands more die after all they're not really human beings , they are all potential Iranian suicide bombers, just waiting for the nod to undermine our freedom and liberty.

"Mission Impossible" it's all so easy.

 

[Llama]

I was under the impression that Nuclear weapons could be launched in Iran and travel anywhere in the world before detonating?

 

[Lemonking]

“Mission impossible"

As we are sold the sterling and profound sentiments such as “finishing the mission",” not leaving until the job is done". One thing that bothers me is we are never actually told what the job or mission is.

Is it to make the world a saver place, rid the world of rogue states, eliminate terrorism, and remove dictators or simply to push our own agenda forward?
See this is the problem setting yourself up as the worlds policeman it means you have to have a set of rules that you adhere to and not make them up as you go along.

Pumping out propaganda such as “the Axis of Evil" is not enough but it allows you to demonise places such as Iran. So the propaganda machine goes into overdrive to install the fear that we all need to justify any action we choose to take. Forget the millions of peaceful people who populate Iran and who simply want to get on with their lives.

As Iran takes the centre stage and the process of dehumanising is ploughed out we can rest easy that the same world leaders that led us into the disaster of Iraq are at it again. Surely lessons have been learnt……eh maybe not.

No need to worry though after all this country is thousands of miles away and who cares if thousands more die after all they're not really human beings , they are all potential Iranian suicide bombers, just waiting for the nod to undermine our freedom and liberty.

"Mission Impossible" it's all so easy.

well..... Im not a friend of Israel, but when a Goverment official calls out to wipe Israel of the face of the earth.and openly says they want a world without the USA.....aint that a wee bit evil?
And also instead of a invasion Israel/Turkey/U.S would prolly just bomb their facilities (sp)

 

[baxter]

aint that a wee bit evil?

It is actually, so what should we do? Maybe bomb the crap out of them, put up economic sanctions or sever all trade?

Oh you already answered...bomb their facilities, excellent, that resolves it all.

Not quite hit home yet as it?
(here a little hint.....every action as an equal and opposite reaction)

Why would they be so afraid and distrustful of the US and Israel?

 

[Lemonking]

I know they have their reasons, especialy for Isreal.but then again what are we gonna do If they ever build nukes? That Iranian president seems crazy enough to use em dont you think?

 

[CptStern]

hmmm a crazy guy running a country that has never used nuclear weapons ..or a bunch of crazy guys running a country who used nukes twice and just so happens to have illegally invaded their next door neighbour ...and you think he's the threat to world stability? :upstare:

 

[Lemonking]

stern..... back in WWII there was no other choice-millions more would have died. If we wouldnt have nuked them,If you dont believe that, Then read up some history




and plz move to Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan you seem to like alot more in that part of the world

 

[CptStern]

stern..... back in WWII there was no other choice-millions more would have died. If we wouldnt have nuked them,If you dont believe that, Then read up some history

you're trying to lecture me on history? read the Truman diaries, they knew Japan wanted to surrender

and plz move to Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan you seem to like alot more in that part of the world

<clapclapclap> bravo! you good sir have bested me in a battle of minds, I fell before your rapier like wit and have no other choice but to concede that you sir are the better debater! my hat off to you


:upstare:

 

[baxter]

I know they have their reasons, especialy for Isreal.but then again what are we gonna do If they ever build nukes? That Iranian president seems crazy enough to use em dont you think?

Unlike this guy.

Nukes have been around for years, so have madmen combining the two is admittedly a dangerous situation, but to what end would Iran ever use them, if they were to ever build them?

It is no good whatsoever trying to resolve something that may happen. This is like blasting your neighbour’s puppy dog with a shotgun because it might bark when it gets older.

Rather than simply getting all heavy handed , issuing threats and simply being put into a position, whereby at some later date you have to carry out those threats, maybe we should stop treating the entire middle east as some sort of testing ground. Not only for our modern weapons but also for our foreign policies.

Try not treating them like idiots, giving them some respect and treating them on the same level we expect to treated on and maybe, just maybe we will get somewhere.

After all would you like to deal with someone who continually points a loaded gun at you?

 

[Lemonking]

how, thats why various Generals wanted to kidnap the Emperor-so they wont surrender? mhm.....


and also yes-the japanese wanted to surrender but they had demands

THEY WHERE IN NO POSITION TO MAKE DEMANDS>>NUKE





ps <joke

 

[CptStern]

they didnt want to hand over their emperor who was their spiritual leader, but you miss the point. Read the Truman diaries and get back to me, till then you have nothing but conjecture to offer


oh and your jokes are not funny

 

[Raziaar]

you're trying to lecture me on history? read the Truman diaries, they knew Japan wanted to surrender

Japan wasn't going to surrender until much of Japan was conquered by a presence of ground forces from the united states and any other allied countries.

The use of nuclear weapons then, and now... there's no legitimate connection of similiarities.


And are you talking about the invasion of canada by the united states? Please... you need to be more educated on the matter stern. What do you expect from a burgeoning country trying to free itself from the bonds of its previous connections(england)? It was a combination of Canadians and english there. The war of 1812 was officially between united states and united kingdom.

I just think its funny how you connect these things to the actions of the modern government.

 

[Lemonking]

ditto, Raziaar, If the allies would have to invaded Japan millions would have died on both sides.

 

[Solaris]

The could have imposed econimc sanctions.

 

[CptStern]

Japan wasn't going to surrender until much of Japan was conquered by a presence of ground forces from the united states and any other allied countries.

nope, read the truman diaries, Truman, churchill and stalin all knew months before the bomb was dropped that japan wanted to surrender

And are you talking about the invasion of canada by the united states? Please... you need to be more educated on the matter stern. What do you expect from a burgeoning country trying to free itself from the bonds of its previous connections(england)? It was a combination of Canadians and english there. The war of 1812 was officially between united states and united kingdom.

I just think its funny how you connect these things to the actions of the modern government.

? I have no idea where you came to that conclusion, I wasnt comparing that at all



Solaris: the US imposed sanctions back in 79

 

[Raziaar]

nope, read the truman diaries, Truman, churchill and stalin all knew months before the bomb was dropped that japan wanted to surrender

Does it MATTER what they 'wanted' to do? The fact of the matter is... they didn't surrender! And the invasion was gearing up to go into effect very soon, which is why the bombs were dropped.


Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Tarawa. Very costly Battles. Okinawa especially was a very good representation of the kind of horrific casualties that could be expected with Operation Downfall, the invasion of the main islands of Japan. Including Japan itself. Well over 100 thousand civilians died in that battle. In fact, I think it was closer to 200 thousand(either that or casualties, not deaths). Americans had a huge loss of men. At least a hundred thousand japanese casualties...

And this all took place April 1st, on through somewhere to june 21st or 22nd, 1945.

Operation Downfall was set to go down sometime in November of that year, which wasn't very far away. In fact, it was only 'several' months after the battle of Okinawa ended. The atomic bombs were dropped in august of 1945... only TWO months after Okinawa. If the japanese were so eager to surrender, please pray tell me why they didn't do it, if they had thoughts 'several months' prior to the bomb drop's initiation. The fact is... they were going to wait until the americans lost huge amounts of casualties invading the island of japan. If you're so wanting to surrender, you DO it. Make efforts towards doing just that! Which... japan did not.

Also... Russia declared war on Japan as well some time around there... which... their goal would be if Japan was so set on surrendering?

Please... try to answer me all that. I haven't read the Truman Diaries... but i'll be sure to pick it up. However, your logic stemming just from that little fact of 'japan wanted to surrender' makes no sense... if you look at what I layed out above, on the extremely short timeframes, and the obvious neglect of Japan to actually say they wished to surrender before Operation Downfall went into effect.

? I have no idea where you came to that conclusion, I wasnt comparing that at all

Well... you said united states invaded their neighbor. Which obviously wasn't in modern times, and I assumed to be the invasion of Canada. So please... what were you talking about then? Because my response was directed towards that.

 

[CptStern]

Does it MATTER what they 'wanted' to do? The fact of the matter is... they didn't surrender! And the invasion was gearing up to go into effect very soon, which is why the bombs were dropped.

no, they didnt want to surrender they were TRYING to ..read the truman diaries in it he mentions that Stalin and Churchill had been contacted by the Japanese who wanted to surrender a month before the bomb dropped ..I didnt answer it because so many politics threads somehow fall back on ww2 discussions ..which isnt the point of this topic and to be honest bores me to tears

Well... you said united states invaded their neighbor. Which obviously wasn't in modern times, and I assumed to be the invasion of Canada. So please... what were you talking about then? Because my response was directed towards that.

well you misunderstood because I meant the US invaded Iraq: Iran's neighbour

 

[Sulkdodds]

I believe the Japanese offered a surrender, but they weren't quite prepared to give themselves up unconditionally which was what the US wanted.

 

[CptStern]

the sticking point was the emperor, he was to be turned over to the americans ..many in japanese government including the emperor himself were willing to concede to that point ..after the bombs were dropped truman allowed the japanese to keep their emperor ..so in the end they agreed to a conditional surrender that they were seeking BEFORE the bombs were dropped

the real motivations?

from the truman diaries:

July 1945 "Stalin will be in the Jap War on August 15th. Fini Japs when that comes about."

July 1945: "I've gotten what I came for--Stalin goes to war on August 15th with no strings on it...I'll say that we'll end the war a year sooner now, and think of the kids who won't be killed."

the day the Russians were supposed to enter the war, the US accepted Japan's surrender: August 15, 1945

but why did truman drop the bomb a week before the russians entered the war? surely he could have waited another week if sparing innocent lives was his motivation

he explained:

"One of the main objectives of the Potsdam Conference was to get Russia in as quickly as we could and then to keep Russia out of Japan--and I did it."



several of his advisors disagreed with his intention to bomb japan:

"General Dwight Eisenhower, supreme commander of American forces in Europe, told Secretary of War Stimson "that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary."

Secretary of War Henry Stimson later remarked: "the atomic bomb was the United States' master card in dealing, not just with Japan, but with the Soviet Union as well"


Secretary of State James Byrnes said: "rattling the bomb might make Russia more manageable."


draw your own conclusions ... this subject has been regurgitated countless times and I for one am a little tired of it

 

[Sulkdodds]

What say'st thou to claims that without Hiroshima/Nagisaki (perhaps only one would have done the trick :|) prevented the cold war from going hot by permanently imprinting nuclear weapons in the public consciousness as symbols of fear and showing the world the horrible consequences of a nuclear blast? Not that any of that excuses it. But it might be that the world is better for Hiroshima. D:

 

[CptStern]

well we dont know that ...but ultimately it's a huge price to pay for some 300,000 + people, 95% being civilians

 

[jerkasaur]

some japanese women are still giving birth to childs that have serious health problems, because of the effects of the nuke bombs...

 

[Lemonking]

how many would have died If we had inavde Japan? millioans more it was nesercary (sp),If was for people like you stern back then...

grrrrrrrrrr

 

[CptStern]

millions huh? got any way to back that up?

 

[SAJ]

The alleged "millions" would have been 99% Japanese, the US would have carpet-bombed the entire nation rather than send in ground troops.
Once your enemy is broken you have the luxury of time and picking your targets without worrying about a military response.
Its important to remember that Nagasaki and Hiroshima were about more than just forcing surrender, they were a message and a declaration to the rest of the great powers.
Washington also used two very different untested devices for the bombing of large concentrations of civillians, coming at the end of a long and expensive research process , make of that what you will.

Having said that - Stern , Raziaar - GET A ROOM !

 

[CptStern]

nah, he's not my type, too preachy :E

 

[Lemonking]

The alleged "millions" would have been 99% Japanese, the US would have carpet-bombed the entire nation rather than send in ground troops.
Once your enemy is broken you have the luxury of time and picking your targets without worrying about a military response.
Its important to remember that Nagasaki and Hiroshima were about more than just forcing surrender, they were a message and a declaration to the rest of the great powers.
Washington also used two very different untested devices for the bombing of large concentrations of civillians, coming at the end of a long and expensive research process , make of that what you will.

Having said that - Stern , Raziaar - GET A ROOM !

tz....The US was already planning the Land Invasion you fool, learn History before you start spreading your anti-US bs

 

[Raziaar]

nah, he's not my type, too preachy :E

Actually... i'm less preachy than you. I'm religious, but I don't try to convert people to my ways. Unlike you, of course... <grins> You're always sitting on here preaching about something non religious, touting the rightious side of things.

When you go on endlessly about war, drug policy, death penalty, etc etc etc, its kind of hard for me to not think you're preaching.

 

[SAJ]

tz....The US was already planning the Land Invasion you fool, learn History before you start spreading your anti-US bs

Governments have plans for all sorts of contingencies, especially in wartime, and its not history if it didnt happen. fool
Anti-US bs ? How so ? What exactly have I written here that is "anti-US".

 

[15357]

They should have nuked Tokyo.


Having said that, why is this thread about WW2? *goes and checks*

 

[CptStern]

Actually... i'm less preachy than you. I'm religious, but I don't try to convert people to my ways. Unlike you, of course... <grins> You're always sitting on here preaching about something non religious, touting the rightious side of things.

When you go on endlessly about war, drug policy, death penalty, etc etc etc, its kind of hard for me to not think you're preaching.

nope just voicing my opinion. I tend to ram information down people's throats rather than preach to them :E