What's the relationship between Israel, Iraq, and Uh-merica?

[evil^milk]

So far I know that Israel's relationship with Uh-merica was that Uh-merica sold billions of dollars worth of weaponry to Israel, making it the 4th most powerful military in the world. Israel is full of J00bs who are trying to get completely rid of the Palestinians, claiming they are terrorists and bad people, when in fact, the J00bs are the ones performing acts of terror upon Palestinians.

Iraq attacked the US on 9/11, specifically the WTC and the Pentagon because they were in charge of managing the weapons trade with Israel.

Why did Iraq decide to attack the US, if the US and Israel were just trading weapons between themselves? In other words, what did the relationship between US and Israel matter to Iraq?

And also what's the deal with Iran and the US?

Disclaimer: I came into this thread knowing very little about the above concerns, if it isn't already obvious, so if you call me an ignorant I think it'll be valid but not very constructive unless you enlighten me.

 

[Raziaar]

I don't think you can get off fairly simply labeling Israel as the terrorists and Palestinians as the victims.

Both sides have incredible faults that fuel this ridiculous hostility.

 

[evil^milk]

lol @ your avatar

And I wasn't labeling the Israel guys as the terrorists, but if you compare a map 10 years ago and an actual map of Saudi Arabia you'll see that Palestinian land has been reduced almost completely, and Israel is much larger.

 

[repiV]

So far I know that Israel's relationship with Uh-merica was that Uh-merica sold billions of dollars worth of weaponry to Israel, making it the 4th most powerful military in the world. Israel is full of J00bs who are trying to get completely rid of the Palestinians, claiming they are terrorists and bad people, when in fact, the J00bs are the ones performing acts of terror upon Palestinians.

Iraq attacked the US on 9/11, specifically the WTC and the Pentagon because they were in charge of managing the weapons trade with Israel.

Why did Iraq decide to attack the US, if the US and Israel were just trading weapons between themselves? In other words, what did the relationship between US and Israel matter to Iraq?

And also what's the deal with Iran and the US?

Step away from the reefer...

 

[No Limit]

Not sure if you are being serious...

 

[The Monkey]

1. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
2. The Israel-Palestine conflict, just like virtually all conflicts, is far too complicated for it to be possible to say that one side is good and one is bad.

 

[evil^milk]

Step away from the reefer...

?

Not sure if you are being serious...

I am super serial.

 

[Crushenator 500]

lol @ your avatar

And I wasn't labeling the Israel guys as the terrorists, but if you compare a map 10 years ago and an actual map of Saudi Arabia you'll see that Palestinian land has been reduced almost completely, and Israel is much larger.

Errr... have you ever seen a map of the middle east...?

Isreal is that small purple part touching Egypt...

 

[Raziaar]

lol @ your avatar

Thanks... Vegeta did a great job.

 

[Gunner]

You should go to a library and read a few books on the creation of the state of Israel. It will explain everything you need to know and you will come out of the whole experience smarter and more knowledgeable thus preventing you from ever posting such drivel in the future.

 

[repiV]

?



I am super serial.

You're nuts. Please keep the stupidity away - it might be contagious.

 

[evil^milk]

Errr... have you ever seen a map of the middle east...?

Isreal is that small purple part touching Egypt...

Zomj then I'm completely wrong.

You should go to a library and read a few books on the creation of the state of Israel. It will explain everything you need to know and you will come out of the whole experience smarter and more knowledgeable thus preventing you from ever posting such drivel in the future.

See your post could've been more helpful if you just would've prevented yourself from typing everything from "thus" to "future". But thanks anyway, I'll look into the creation of Israel.

You're nuts. Please keep the stupidity away - it might be contagious.

I'm not nuts, and certainly not stupid; if anything I'm extremely ignorant, and you are doing nothing to contribute to this thread, so GTFO this thread NAO kthx.

 

[Gunner]

See your post could've been more helpful if you just would've prevented yourself from typing everything from "thus" to "future". But thanks anyway, I'll look into the creation of Israel.

You're absolutely right, "thus" is so pompous and arrogant it makes anyone who says it sound like a total ****wad. I retract the "thus" and present my apologies.

 

[repiV]

I'm not nuts, and certainly not stupid; if anything I'm extremely ignorant, and you are doing nothing to contribute to this thread, so GTFO this thread NAO kthx.

Then why do you keep posting insane ramblings like the above?

Israel terrorising Palestinians? Iraq attacking the US? Where do you dig this shit up from anyway?

 

[The Monkey]

The least you could've done before creating this thread was to do just a little research. I mean, not even knowing where Israel is located is extremely ignorant.

 

[evil^milk]

You're absolutely right, "thus" is so pompous and arrogant it makes anyone who says it sound like a total ****wad. I retract the "thus" and present my apologies.

See your post could've been more helpful if you just would've prevented yourself from typing everything from "thus" to "future". But thanks anyway, I'll look into the creation of Israel.

Then why do you keep posting insane ramblings like the above?

Israel terrorising Palestinians? Iraq attacking the US? Where do you dig this shit up from anyway?

Well, I haven't done any actual research on the subject, don't live in the US, didn't give a damn about it until I moved into the US, so I recognize all the things I posted were prolly a load of bull.

The least you could've done before creating this thread was to do just a little research. I mean, not even knowing where Israel is located is extremely ignorant.

I thought I knew where it was, sorry.

Jeez people, if it really annoys you that I ask a few simple questions, and all I get is "zomj ur nuts lol go do research" then I don't think I'll continue to ask any questions in this place for the time being.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I'd rather not get too deep into the quagmire of Israeli/Palestinian relations, which incorporates such disgusting abuses of humanity on both sides, and which has become such a moral and social quagmire, that the moral 'right' of each side to occupy the area (which likely rests with the Palestinians) has become completely irrelevant.

For many years much of the Israeli government and many private citizens has been heartily involved in suppressing, oppressing, displacing, abusing and colonising the Palestinian populace, who, in turn, when not simply trying to live their lives in what is effectively a warzone, are wont to fight back with completely immoral tactics and often tend to rationalise their war with a load of shit (religion).

I would advise you read a dry history book on the region, and then read Joe Sacco's Palestine.

Here are some sensible quotes from one of my favourite Canadians, Mechagodzilla, who had an amazing talent for expressing in words the absurdity of contemporary politics:

Who in the name of babyback Jesus gives a goddamn about who the initial agressor was anymore.

The Israeli government with its huge military is taking over the land in immoral ways. Palestinian people with pretty much shit for military are immorally suicide bombing against it. If Israel had no military, they're suicide themselves to shit. If Palestine had nukes, unlimited American support and cutting-edge technology they'd be throwing their weight around colonializing people's shit too.

Who cares who started it in the past when they're both tremendous douchelands here in this magical place I call the present day?

Nemesis et al, if there were no suicide bombers, would you still be so gung-ho about Israel illegally taking over chunks of other people's countries? Is this really your idea of a fun time? "Oh those dumb palestinians are killing themselves for no reason. They are so dumb and evil let's nuke Lebanon so that they won't hate us anymore, DURRRRR."
Oh what's that you say Raziaar? "They're just doing their job"?
Well shit you are right, no-one just doing their job has ever done anything evil. Ever.

Then Solaris & His Talking Car, when the hell is suicide bombing ever a bright strategy? It makes your freedom fighters look like the bunch of indefensible retards they are, because no scrap of land is worth over half a century of bloodshed, no matter how many angels shat their pixie dust on it. You want victory in Palestine? MOVE YOUR SELF OUT OF THAT HELLHOLE. There's a victory for you.

Israel too. Move the hell out and give the smouldering remains to Belgium because BELGIUM MAKES SENSE. They very well deserve it, which is more than I can say for either of your lost causes.

You're both cheerleading the losing team, when even the Special Goddamn Olympics manages to make everyone a winner.

Seriously.

Raz, there you go again.

"It's not their fault that civilians die. They're just constantly throwing themselves into situations where civilian deaths are inevitable."
It's not our fault the areas we bomb are populated DRUUURRR.

And solaris, do you really give a shit about the holy land? It's a religious conflict, pretty much 100%. You can't in all honesty support the fundamentalist motivation and ignore the inevitable results. That's the same shit Raz is doing.
"I support the batshit fundamentalist Muslim holy war but not the constant suicide bombings which are pretty much their only (Quran-approved) tactics. Also we will keep clinging civilians to the area because we love martyrdom so much"

Seriously, give up. If Palestine just leaves the goddamn place and never fights again, Israel will be revealed for the land-grabbing nutzo-land it is. Not only that, but they'll lose american support when the rapture doesn't come.
Being equally nutzo helps abso****inglutely no-one.

See, the middle-east debate will go on forever because neither side realizes that they are absolutely retarded.

Israel is worthless for starting and perpetuating this bullshit religious conflict, and palestine is worthless for buying into the hate with their own unique brand of batshit holocaust-denying antisemitism.
And, obviously, it doesn't just stop there. If you're christian, you support israel all the same, and if you suffer from a more secular form of insanity, it's all the jew's fault.
Thank GOD that we have Mel Gibson trying his damnedest to unite the hate!
It's Reptillian Conspiracy Theorists versus George Bush all over again, and once again everyone wins a big bath of shit.
We should nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Your respective gods are freaking mongoloids, and I swear that if there is a hell, you'll be able to shake their hands when you get there.

Example thread.

Iraq attacked the US on 9/11, specifically the WTC and the Pentagon because they were in charge of managing the weapons trade with Israel.

NO. Terrorists probably unaffiliated with Saddam Hussein attacked the US on 9/11 because they saw it as the 'great satan' - ie enemy of all Islam - and wished to both spark Islamic activism and provoke America into responding violently, thus creating more discontent and thus more martyrs (standard provocateur tactics). On this last point they succeeded utterly; 9/11 was used as a thin justification - along with WMDs that were never found - for the Coalition war no Iraq, which was likely motivated by greed or idiocy or the Project For The New American Century or God knows what.

The US-Israel axis contributes quiet a lot to this perception of America as The Enemy because A. America has consistently stuck its stupid fingers into stupid places and fucked with the middle east throughout quite a lot of the last century and B. MOST MUSLIMS REALLY DON'T LIKE ISRAEL. You'll see above that Israel's massive military power is put to good use bombing hundreds of Lebanese civilians for each armed insurgent and clearing Palestinians from their homes so that Jewish settlers can repossess the area. For the kind of Muslim radical who believes in the idea of global islamic brotherhood - of all Muslims being together was one, and of an attack on one Muslim being an attack on all - Israel is therefore an enemy of Islam, destroying its people, oppressing its homeland - and America is its ally.

OBVIOUSLY it's all about a metric fuckton more complicated than that.

And also what's the deal with Iran and the US?

They don't like each other.

There is possibly freudian nuclear penis envy on Iran's part.


DISCLAIMER: I BET THIS POST CONTAINS HUGE MISCONCEPTIONS THAT ONLY SOMEONE LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, SAJ COULD CORRECT WITH CHARACTERISTIC RIGOUR AND ACCURACY

 

[Cole]

Israel:
After the holocaust(you know bout that right?), United Nations felt they needed to give something to the Jews. They gave them a piece of land called Israel. They took it from the Palestinian people. Nearly all the countries sorrounding israel have attacked israel. The day israel was considered a state, it was in fact at war. It was attacked, and it held its own.

The United States has backed israel, and because all these other nations hate israel, they hate the U.S. for backing israel and making it very powerfull.

Iraq
The United States believed there were WMD's in Iraq. Furthermore, Iraq had been violating nearly everything agreed upon after they invaded Kuwait (This is why we should have gone in). We went into there to find Weapons of Mass Destruction, we did not find them. We were scared that Iraq might have them, give them to terrorists who would then use them against the United States. Now we are in Iraq, trying to spread Democracy(cuz you know forcing beliefs on others is the best way to go about things... yes sarcasm)

Iran
United States belives Iran is backing terrorism. They have a nuclear program, and we are scared that they could get nuclear weapons and give them to terrorists. Pretty much...same thing as Iraq.

 

[Nemesis6]

Milk, I noticed something: You mention that the Palestinians have been losing territory. This has all been due to wars, so it's not really fair to blame anyone else than the Arabs for the Israelis taking land after defensive wars. If you want to take about land being unjustly lost, the only thing I can see debatable here is the settlements on the West Bank, but then again, the Arab armies used this piece of land to attack Israel from, too.

 

[No Limit]

Milk, I noticed something: You mention that the Palestinians have been losing territory. This has all been due to wars, so it's not really fair to blame anyone else than the Arabs for the Israelis taking land after defensive wars. If you want to take about land being unjustly lost, the only thing I can see debatable here is the settlements on the West Bank, but then again, the Arab armies used this piece of land to attack Israel from, too.

Yup. You can take as much land as you want against any treaty out there if you say its for defense. Thats kind of the same way we can attack anyone we please as long as we say its part of the war on terror. If this was for defense why do they continue to occupy this land 40 years later? Better yet why not simply include the palistines in their government like it originally was?

evil^milk, you weren't being serious, were you? You are playing everyone for a fool, right?

 

[Nemesis6]

If this was for defense why do they continue to occupy this land 40 years later? Better yet why not simply include the palistines in their government like it originally was?

They left the Gaza strip and it's a fair bet that the moronic Olmert will make more concessions. Another thing: Palestinians are represented in the government.

 

[No Limit]

They left the Gaza strip and it's a fair bet that the moronic Olmert will make more concessions. Another thing: Palestinians are represented in the government.

I like what Olmert is doing, I know you don't so you clearly don't think they should have withdrawn, right? So...

In addition they should certainly be doing everything they can to make ammends but after 40 years of this shit its kind of hard to forgive and forget overnight, just like I'm sure Israelis who lost friends and family in this conflict wont be able to.

When you say they are represented by what percentage are you talking about? The muslim population there is close to 20%, are you saying that they get that kind of representation in the government? And why is it that Palestines are not automatically granted citizenship like jews are? And you will admit that many still remain in exile and are not allowed back in to the country?

 

[Solaris]

Lol: Iraq attacked america on 911

 

[kirovman]

Saddam Hussein was responsible for the Glasgow Airport bombing.

He ordered it from beyond the grave. Wooooo00000!!

 

[Nemesis6]

I like what Olmert is doing, I know you don't so you clearly don't think they should have withdrawn, right? So...

In addition they should certainly be doing everything they can to make ammends but after 40 years of this shit its kind of hard to forgive and forget overnight, just like I'm sure Israelis who lost friends and family in this conflict wont be able to.

When you say they are represented by what percentage are you talking about? The muslim population there is close to 20%, are you saying that they get that kind of representation in the government? And why is it that Palestines are not automatically granted citizenship like jews are? And you will admit that many still remain in exile and are not allowed back in to the country?

Well, first off, Ayaan Hirsi Ali said it - "You can give them Gaza, you can give them the West Bank; It's just not gonna be enough."

The Arabs of Israel are presented within the government by the Arab Ta'al party, the United Arab List, and the Arab Nationalist Party. Heck, even the leader of the Ta'Al party, Ahmed Tibi, served as Arafat's political advisor. They're well-represented, Islamists, pro-Palestinians, and moderates alike.

Now about Palestinians not getting citizenship, that's an easy one. If all Palestinians were granted citizenship, Israel would be destroyed. The reason there are so few -- if you can call it "few" -- is because the Palestinians chose to leave Israel during the War of Independance - The Arab armies told them to leave so they would not be harmed while they killed the Israelis. They did, and when they found out that they'd left Israel and Israel was not destroyed, they couldn't get back in.

 

[No Limit]

The Arabs of Israel are presented within the government by the Arab Ta'al party, the United Arab List, and the Arab Nationalist Party. Heck, even the leader of the Ta'Al party, Ahmed Tibi, served as Arafat's political advisor. They're well-represented, Islamists, pro-Palestinians, and moderates alike.

What percentage?

Now about Palestinians not getting citizenship, that's an easy one. If all Palestinians were granted citizenship, Israel would be destroyed. The reason there are so few -- if you can call it "few" -- is because the Palestinians chose to leave Israel during the War of Independance - The Arab armies told them to leave so they would not be harmed while they killed the Israelis. They did, and when they found out that they'd left Israel and Israel was not destroyed, they couldn't get back in.

So you are saying the palestinians were afraid of the arab states and not of the IDF? How can you possibly make a statement like that. It was the IDF destroying their villages, not the other way around.

If you don't want to give all people living there citizenship and fair representation then you have no right to claim you are a democracy. So yes, you are absolutely correct. If they did this Israel as a jewish state would be wiped out. Do you not understand why this angers the palestinians and why one side is not any holier than the other?

 

[Solaris]

The Palestinians have been driven to religious fundamentalism by Isreal.
Originally the Palestinian resistance was secular - the Palestinian Liberation Organization. They wanted a Palestine free from occupation and Israeli terror. And I believe a 2 state solution would be supported by Palestinians.

 

[No Limit]

The Palestinians have been driven to religious fundamentalism by Isreal.
Originally the Palestinian resistance was secular - the Palestinian Liberation Organization. They wanted a Palestine free from occupation and Israeli terror. And I believe a 2 state solution would be supported by Palestinians.

I think a 2 state solution was proposed and both of them rejected it. So not sure thats going to solve anything. I think what needs to happen is they need to live together. Israel needs to include them in their government, but as nemesis said if that happens Israel will not be a jewish state any longer.

 

[Nemesis6]

What percentage?

Here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Israel#Other_political_groups

So you are saying the palestinians were afraid of the arab states and not of the IDF? How can you possibly make a statement like that. It was the IDF destroying their villages, not the other way around.

Lots of factors played a role in this, but one big factor was that the Arab armies urged them to leave so they could destroy Israel. In other words, they became the victims of the Arab nationalism that swept the area. Whatever the reason they had to leave was and whatever I might not be seeing, it's really of no consequence because Israel really doesn't owe anything to people who have been living in refugee camps for over 50 years. One Palestinian put it adequately, when asked why he lived in a refugee camp: "It reinforces my historical connection to this land". Something like that. The only reason they're still living in refugee camps is because of their own corrupt leadership which they themselves have happily instated. Wiping their suffering on Israel's sleeve is not fair. Especially not when you look at what Arafat did with all the money that he could have made the most prosperous nation ever in the Arab world with. Hint: Switzerland, secret bank accounts, PFLP, weapons.

If you don't want to give all people living there citizenship and fair representation then you have no right to claim you are a democracy. So yes, you are absolutely correct. If they did this Israel as a jewish state would be wiped out. Do you not understand why this angers the palestinians and why one side is not any holier than the other?

As said: They do have representation in the government. Another thing: Israel as a Jewish state would be wiped out you say. Yes, that would be the initial consequence. The second would be the annihilation of its non-Muslim inhabitants(and yes, I'm including the Palestinians' Christian community).

To be honest, the Palestinians have much, much bigger problems to worry about than how much land they've lost battling and allowing the land they did have to become launchings for attacks against the Jews. All their infrastructural problems, to all their economic problems -- Which they themselves created, by the way --, all such issues pales in comparison to the incredible hatred and evil on which their society is based on today; Their hatred for yahud. I really find it ridiculous when people try to find flaws in their healthcare system, etc, while ignoring the entire mindset that gave rise to the collapse of such things as basic medical care.

 

[No Limit]

Lots of factors played a role in this,

Indeed. The only role you originally mentioned had nothing to do with Israel, when Israel was a huge factor.

Yes, that would be the initial consequence. The second would be the annihilation of its non-Muslim inhabitants(and yes, I'm including the Palestinians' Christian community).

What are you basing this off? Before Israel came in that entire area was filled with many different religious groups, and still is.

 

[CptStern]

I grow ever more frustrated by americans knowledge of iran and iraq ...ffs even after all this some of you people still believe the US thought iraq had wmd? there was no ****ing mistake, they knew beforehand there was nothing, the inspectors, the CIA, iraqis loyal to the US were all saying the ****ing same thing: no capability whatsoever ...jeez some of you are goddam thick headed ..same goes for Iran, some of you are WILLING to commit the same goddam mistakes you made in supporting a war in iraq ..it just boggles the mind that people can be so ignorant TWICE on the saame issue

 

[Nemesis6]

Before Israel the Arabs were still slaughtering Jews in Palestine. This had been going on since the start of their religion. The Irgun, Lehi, etc, did their part in stooping to the level of the Arabs, but for some reason I don't believe they got anywhere close to the numbers the Arabs got to.

In a nutshell, the Arabs, the Palestinians, wanted the Jews dead long before the state of Israel, and they did their job much better then in contrast to now where they have to face the IDF.

 

[No Limit]

Before Israel the Arabs were still slaughtering Jews in Palestine. This had been going on since the start of their religion. The Irgun, Lehi, etc, did their part in stooping to the level of the Arabs, but for some reason I don't believe they got anywhere close to the numbers the Arabs got to.

I think I know the reason you believe that. But until you can post something to back this up it doesn't mean shit. And do you know which came first, the chicken or the egg? Which group started the violance first, the arabs or the zionists? It would seem to me like the zionists were much more effective with their terrorist activites since they got what they wanted.