Where do you think EP3 will start off? (Location)

[coheedswicked]

im pretty sure theyre still gonna use source. if im not mistaken it was designed so that they could add new features to it as the need arose (theyve incorporated improvements on each episode so far: ep1 was HDR, higher poly character models, a couple of new physics features with clothing; episode 2 was some higher resolution textures, improved particles system which included the blood effects, improved shaders which included the flashlight creating its own shadows, and the "cinematic physics" feature.... and if you include left 4 dead then you've got the addition of soft body physics as well) and so in episode 3 we will likely see yet another modified version of the source engine. perhaps further modified shaders to include light shafts ect, but i think well most likely see the addition of advanced sub-surface scattering and ray tracing which not only does wonders for ice effects but also in rendering more realistic skin

 

[MattyDienhoff]

Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but Source seems to be doing fine keeping up with the times to me. It was designed to be modular so it could be upgraded over time. While assimilating new features into it properly is probably not easy, I'd bet it's easier (and a helluva lot cheaper) than building a new engine from scratch every few years. Anyway, I don't know that Source ever was cutting edge to the extent of some other engines out there. It's certainly not as demanding as most others. Valve seems to put more emphasis on scalability than most devs.

All that said, though, they could do to update some of the common game assets that haven't been changed since 2004 and are aging badly. Weapon textures, for example, or the HEV suit's sleeves. They can get away with sticking props with low-res textures, but the weapons and suit you see all the time.

 

[Rizzo]

Where Ep 2 ended.

Edit: Oh shit 9 pages.

 

[kupocake]

It was designed to be modular so it could be upgraded over time.

I always figured that was marketing guff. Most serious 3D engines build upon previous tech rather than starting from ground zero (Source itself is built off of GoldSrc. GoldSrc was basically the 'Source engine parts that have gone Gold' in 1998). Source is an interesting and well thought out engine... it was optimised to an extent rarely seen in development and a lot of the trade-offs they made were well educated ones, the designers putting detail where the human brain most wants to find it (e.g. in character models). The thing is, we now have engines that can do Valve's top tricks AND all the complex geometry Source specifically neglected to achieve those tricks. Even in the Orange Box titles, you get the feeling of a basic skeleton built in 2002 with a few of the flashy bells and whistles of the following half decade stretched over it all.

The end result of Valve's leap-frog development cycle has been to slow engine development - as far as official - up a little bit more than competing developers have to deal with. Because technology development is done in little bursts, (presumeably at the beginning of each product's birth, because the designers can't work with an engine that is constantly being developed), they can't be doing the kinds of massive engine overhauls that other developers tend to do. It's a case of 'we'll need this feature and effect' with little time for anything radical or over experimental.

Except right now, with Episode Three completely silent, there's a pretty good chance that a Source overhaul is precisely what they're doing.

 

[Officer Combine]

I always figured that was marketing guff. Most serious 3D engines build upon previous tech rather than starting from ground zero (Source itself is built off of GoldSrc. GoldSrc was basically the 'Source engine parts that have gone Gold' in 1998). Source is an interesting and well thought out engine... it was optimised to an extent rarely seen in development and a lot of the trade-offs they made were well educated ones, the designers putting detail where the human brain most wants to find it (e.g. in character models). The thing is, we now have engines that can do Valve's top tricks AND all the complex geometry Source specifically neglected to achieve those tricks. Even in the Orange Box titles, you get the feeling of a basic skeleton built in 2002 with a few of the flashy bells and whistles of the following half decade stretched over it all.

The end result of Valve's leap-frog development cycle has been to slow engine development - as far as official - up a little bit more than competing developers have to deal with. Because technology development is done in little bursts, (presumeably at the beginning of each product's birth, because the designers can't work with an engine that is constantly being developed), they can't be doing the kinds of massive engine overhauls that other developers tend to do. It's a case of 'we'll need this feature and effect' with little time for anything radical or over experimental.

Except right now, with Episode Three completely silent, there's a pretty good chance that a Source overhaul is precisely what they're doing.

Why didn't they use the left 4 dead engine?

 

[kupocake]

Why didn't they use the left 4 dead engine?

That IS source.

 

[Officer Combine]

That IS source.

Yes but you were saying they were likely overhauling source, when they already have a modern engine.

 

[kupocake]

Yes but you were saying they were likely overhauling source, when they already have a modern engine.

Flashy lighting does not a modern engine make.

 

[Officer Combine]

Flashy lighting does not a modern engine make.

100 zombies on screen with hardly a second lagged a modern engine makes.

 

[kupocake]

100 zombies on screen with hardly a second lagged a modern engine makes.

No, that makes Doom. Or Painkiller.

 

[Officer Combine]

No, that makes Doom. Or Painkiller.

100 realistic zombies.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

I'm sure Valve will be building upon the Left4Dead engine just like Left4deads engine was built upon Source 2007. You build your engine around the game you are making not the other way round. Valve will have to see what they want to do with Episode 3 and see if the current Source engine can handle it, if not then they have to add the tech to make it support it. The only thing i feel is holding back Source is it's outdated development tools. Hammer is so unfriendly to use when compared to the tools modern engines use and it's the reason Source is not favoured by 3rd party devs.

 

[Officer Combine]

You can only soup something old up so much.

 

[SotosLg]

guys i think you are getting a bit offtopic!

 

[The Monkey]

It gotta start right after EP2 ended, that's how it has worked so far since HL2.

 

[Officer Combine]

It gotta start right after EP2 ended, that's how it has worked so far since HL2.

Its either this or a couple hours after, as gordon was knocked out.

 

[Kukaku]

The Vortigaunts want to keep Gordon free. He freed them, after all.


I don't know about the beginning, but this is my personal hypothetical plot for Ep 3.

G-Man is a power broker, and he wanted the Nihilanth to be destroyed so he could gain control of the strategically important borderworld, in effect the superhighway of the universe, necessary for teleportation.

He is also the enemy of the Combine, so he lured them to Earth, a planet with rich resources and budding technological expertise in weapons and mass transmission (which he aided) to deal them a bruising blow by means of his pawns. He means to protect Gordon until he can deal a knockout blow to the Combine, then recapture or neutralize him and use the Borealis to gain control of Earth as another strategic bargaining chip.

The player, of course, will use the ship to fend off the G-Man and strike a bargain wherein the Borealis seals off earth from otherworldly intrusion and hidden or destroyed.

In the process, you lose track of Alyx, and she thinks you are dead. At the very end, G-Man sends back topside to the lip of the glacier/combine structure and whispers "All yours, Mr. Freeman..." in your ear. Alyx has her back turned and begins to look over her shoulder when the credits roll.

*nerdgasm*
First ep.3 theory that sounds plausible and well thought out. Also, that is really ****ing epic and not really ****ing retarded.

 

[WriterforHire]

I think it's possible that we might start Episode 3 with the G Man giving a short little monologue, focusing mostly on Eli, and the nature of their relationship. It might be that last scene, where Gordon and Alyx are left in the hangar, only time is frozen, or they might try to mirror Half Life 2 opening even more closely and give you odd lights, sounds, images, that go spiralling in the background as the G Man rants. (Much like the Episode 2 G Man / Alyx scene and the opening of Half Life 2 scene). I also think, just due to the nature of how odd it would be to have to jump into that copper, that after G Man scene the man himself (or possibly the Vortigaunts) should teleport you and Alyx to some other place, so that you can walk to the Borealis on foot. This would also serve as a real blow to the rebellion when they find out that not only Eli is dead but Alyx and Gordon (perhaps the second and third most important people in the rebellion) are missing.

Just my two cents.

 

[arcv]

Maybe the vots put Eli back together and we all go get something to eat, then a little nap, then a quick game of crowbar tag (spoiler: g-man joins in!), a stop at the nearest ski store for winter clothes, then off to the chopper.

 

[Mellowins]

My guess is that the Aperature science ship is the Borealis. And you have to destroy the ship because it perhaps holds the weapon to the combine portal?
The combine advisor Is easy to kill, just as long as it doesn't have the ability to lift up and throw objects against there will...I will explian more later...

 

[Schall]

Probably the hangar.

 

[Mellowins]

Thank you schall you just gave me an idea...If it began in the hangar it would have to have a sort of (in the last episode) moment...Where it viewed all the big memories of EP2 and then finally showing Eli vance's death (purposely) I reckon if it is like that it will mostly show all information connected to what he says...Like "destroy the Borealis, at all costs" or about "our mutual friend"...The concept art seems interesting to show the Borealis if some sort of combine base. I suggest that they make the journey to the Artic using The Helicopter And go to an underground combine base where the combine advisers (who i suspect know something about Gman) will try to stop you from entering the base or something. All that i know is that this will definitely have some explaining and quite an epic game at that as well!

 

[TheOneFreeMan]

It won't be starting in White Forest or anywhere close. The journey to the arctic regions is just too long to actually do without some sort of cinematic ("time passes" moment) ... which Valve have always been stringently against.

My guess is Gordon will wake up in the chopper on the way to the arctic region.

 

[Schall]

Maybe they start the game with a funeral for Eli, and casually make their way to the helicopter and go somewhere. Meh.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

My guess is that the Aperature science ship is the Borealis. And you have to destroy the ship because it perhaps holds the weapon to the combine portal?

The first part we have known since the game's release. Second part..eh I wanna think its something else. Something like that just doesn't sound right, but then they kinda did work on portal tech, but were certainly not limited to just that (they developed a homicidal AI, 'smart' turrets, androids apparently, etc) so it could be anything.

The combine advisor Is easy to kill, just as long as it doesn't have the ability to lift up and throw objects against there will

It crushed a ****ing barrel and tossed it with ease, then completely annihilated the roof of a farmhouse without so much an effort. I don't think such a feet would be 'easy'. Unless you used firearms maybe, but their telekinetic abilities could possibly extend to being able to generate a psychokinetic field to stop small incoming threats. Of course, this is just coming out my ass so don't take this completely seriously brah.

 

[gFrohman]

It crushed a ****ing barrel and tossed it with ease, then completely annihilated the roof of a farmhouse without so much an effort. I don't think such a feet would be 'easy'. Unless you used firearms maybe, but their telekinetic abilities could possibly extend to being able to generate a psychokinetic field to stop small incoming threats. Of course, this is just coming out my ass so don't take this completely seriously brah.

I think you bring up a good point here; I personally think that taking down an Advisor will have to be a two-person job. While, at the end of EP2, one Advisor was busy about to kill Alyx, Dog jumps on it and is able to rip it a new asshole. It seems to me that in order to get past their power one person might need to distract the Advisor while the other attacks it quickly.
Then again, the Advisor in the barn was able to pin Gordon, Alyx, a dead guy, and a barrel at the same time, so I dunno; this might not work.

 

[Asknoone]

I suspect the Vortigaunts will likely have a hand in neutralising the Advisors.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

That's the only thing I could see happening.

 

[Crazy_killer]

there is no start. its a lie. ITS ALL A LIE!

 

[gFrohman]

I suspect the Vortigaunts will likely have a hand in neutralising the Advisors.

I agree. After all, the Vort at the end of Freeman Pontifex mentions that he has to go kill some unhatched Advisors - the Vorts seem to be more knowledgeable about the Advisor's weaknesses. Don't know if this holds true when the Advisors are fully awake though.

 

[Noodle]

It won't be starting in White Forest or anywhere close. The journey to the arctic regions is just too long to actually do without some sort of cinematic ("time passes" moment) ... which Valve have always been stringently against.

My guess is Gordon will wake up in the chopper on the way to the arctic region.

That would actually be a good time for the G-Man to show up and tell Gordon what to do about the Borealism, or do other G-Man things.

 

[gFrohman]

I would actually not prefer to skip White Forest at the beginning; Valve has a chance to do some amazing character development & drama regarding Eli's death (obviously with Alyx, but I'm even more interested to see the impact on Kleiner & Magnusson).

 

[pomegranate]

Just to throw a possibility in there, for months people have been wondering about how the duration of the chopper ride to the Artic would be dealt with - has anyone suggested that the Vorts might step in and just teleport Freeman there? Would be more likely if Alyx isn't able to pilot the chopper any more after Eli's death... totally crippled by grief... but Mossman and Kleiner say it is essential that Freeman still goes there...

 

[kupocake]

That would be a huge cop-out though, and they wouldn't have mentioned the helicopter if they didn't plan on using it (though of course, plans do change...)

 

[Asknoone]

Just to throw a possibility in there, for months people have been wondering about how the duration of the chopper ride to the Artic would be dealt with - has anyone suggested that the Vorts might step in and just teleport Freeman there? Would be more likely if Alyx isn't able to pilot the chopper any more after Eli's death... totally crippled by grief... but Mossman and Kleiner say it is essential that Freeman still goes there...

I certainly think that would be a cop-out; it's something of a slap in the face to this idea of constant progression, and distance and travel - elements that I think have been fairly important to the Half-life series since Eli told us to seek out the surface.

 

[pomegranate]

I certainly think that would be a cop-out; it's something of a slap in the face to this idea of constant progression, and distance and travel - elements that I think have been fairly important to the Half-life series since Eli told us to seek out the surface.

Nonsense. Teleportation has been used to progress the story in every part of Half-Life, except Episode 2. The specific kind of teleportation I've suggested has even already been used, between HL2 and Ep 1. A similar distance-travel situation was resolved the same way half-way through HL2. I'm assuming you've been playing the same games as me?

 

[Asknoone]

I don't think you are understanding what I am stating in context. Nova Prospekt was used to back track - to put into perspective the distance you had traveled in the first place. Episode 1 was a special case; what happened at the tip of the Citadel was no ordinary circumstance, and Vortigaunt intervention was surely enabled purely by that disruption. From the moment of awakening at the foot of the Citadel, you have gone forward entirely unaided by teleportation, or further deus-ex-machina mechanics.

What I was saying was that it would be far too much of a cop-out for Valve to render the helicopter useless, and simply teleport us a great distance for reasons of convenience. Travel is incredibly important. What is more, had the Vortigaunts this ability, they would have sent Alyx directly to White Forest on the moment of injury, and indeed would have recognised the immediate need to take Mossman to the north in pursuit of those codes. If you recall, she too took a helicopter.

Yes, I would appear to have been playing the same games as you.

 

[pomegranate]

Yeah, that's clearly the point you were trying to make in the first place, I really don't think so. It's not that I didn't understand, it's that you weren't actually saying what you're now claiming to have been getting at, wriggle wriggle!

I understand your pov on it being a cop-out, but I think this situation may turn out to be even more urgent than it was thought to be when Eli & Alyx planned to use the chopper? Thus not just being a matter of convenient presentation, but also making more sense in the story as well, in another exceptional circumstance. It would only take a swift development of events/worsening of the situation for this to be the only option for the rebels.

 

[Asknoone]

Yeah, that's clearly the point you were trying to make in the first place, I really don't think so. It's not that I didn't understand, it's that you weren't actually saying what you're now claiming to have been getting at, wriggle wriggle!

Well, er, yeah, I kind of was - it would be a huge cop-out, because there has never been that kind of projectile travel in the HL2 arc. Distance and travel is important; it has been since you got off the train. Being routed to the north in such a way would be arbitrary. I think there's a clear correlation between both posts.

I understand your pov on it being a cop-out, but I think this situation may turn out to be even more urgent than it was thought to be when Eli & Alyx planned to use the chopper? Thus not just being a matter of convenient presentation, but also making more sense in the story as well, in another exceptional circumstance. It would only take a swift development of events/worsening of the situation for this to be the only option for the rebels.

But I don't think that would be particularly tense; indeed, I think it would be somewhat retroactive. We are rebels - we don't have access to such swift modes of transportation. We are limited and hindered, and our best bet for getting there is an old helicopter. Rather than the convenient option in light of worsening events, we must make do with rudimentary travel - that is just how bad it is.

 

[pomegranate]

Do you want to have a proper think there or shall I just pick it apart sentence at a time? Too late.

Well, er, yeah, I kind of was - it would be a huge cop-out, because there has never been that kind of projectile travel in the HL2 arc.

Er, yeah there has. I thought your issue was the circumstances where it's happened?

Being routed to the north in such a way would be arbitrary.

As I said, these may be exceptional circumstances where the Vorts feel have no than to intervene.

But I don't think that would be particularly tense; indeed, I think it would be somewhat retroactive. We are rebels - we don't have access to such swift modes of transportation. We are limited and hindered, and our best bet for getting there is an old helicopter. Rather than the convenient option in light of worsening events, we must make do with rudimentary travel - that is just how bad it is.

EDIT I wrote a whole paragraph about how the Rebels had got pretty close to having teleporter tech, then remembered they have achieved it - they sent Alyx through from Eli's lab without a problem. So, sorry but you're entirely mistaken about the abilities of the Rebels. Where was I....?
I agree that the Rebels having usable teleportation would change the balance of power in their favour, but so what? It's a rapidly developing situation. It's the end of this arc of the story and this situation. Something drastic is going to happen one way or the other. The Vortigaunts are becoming more active and more involved. It's not much of a stretch to think that they may be more interested in helping Freeman to further their own purposes, rather than just because he's part of the Rebellion. They clearly see more of a link between themselves and him than just being on the same side. So the limitations/nature of the rebellion are less relevant...